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BoP system - What ZOS should do ? Come & Vote !
-
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭But only within the group or raid that completed the instance. After 30 minutes or so the item becomes BoP.
Doesn't solve issues with boss shoulders I know, but fixes everything else without messing up market and economy. Besides I dont like the idea of players buying unique gear, when they're not even capable of completing the instance where it drops. Gear should be earned.1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LOL @ "Need Before Greed"!
This is a HORRIBLE mechanic that breeds arguments and bitter feelings; I've seen it happen in other MMOs. Please don't bring this vile feature to ESO.
Furthermore, Need-Before-Greed does NOTHING to solve the essential problem of BoP: items are still walled off from the marketplace.Edited by Emma_Overload on March 18, 2015 5:24PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE7 -
maryriv✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »LOL @ "Need Before Greed"!
This a HORRIBLE mechanic that breeds arguments and bitter feelings, I've seen it happen in other MMOs. Please don't bring this vile feature to ESO.
Furthermore, Need-Before-Greed does NOTHING to solve the essential problem of BoP: items are still walled off from the marketplace.
I would agree with this, that need before greed was never good in WoW.4 -
Robbmrp✭✭✭✭✭
✭I voted B but only to be traded within the group that completed the dungeon.NA Server - Kildair0 -
maryriv✭✭✭✭B is only a slight band-aide it won't fix the lack of valuable items in the economy. Making the masks and shoulders more rare and BoE will solve all issues not just a few. Read the OP carefully.1
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Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not finding gear too terribly difficult to obtain or too expensive to purchase. Some gear has been very expensive and pushing the envelope but not so much that I want to see the changes you suggest. In fact I believe the changes you suggest would remove what is now a reasonable challenge to gain gear.
Your poll doesn't have a clear, let things remain as they are category. As is, it's a biased and skewed poll and shouldn't be participated in or the results used.Edited by Vizier on March 18, 2015 5:30PM4 -
Darklord_Tiberius✭✭✭✭I will quote something with I totally agree.kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »For those of you who don't know Bind on Pickup or (BoP) is a method MMORPG games use to restrict gear and other items by making them unable to be traded or sold after you pick them up.
In the past it has been used as a band-aide "fix" to items the developers didn't want people passing to others so instead of incentivizing them not to, they simply forced them to not be able to trade or sell the item.
This becomes more poignant when considering the Undaunted Pledges for example when dealing with the 2 pc sets.
The pluses to this mechanic are:
1) Stops developers from letting an item be traded or sold.
The minuses to this are:
1) Deters people who would be motivated to do content in order to "farm" items to sell, gift or trade to friends, family or others.
2) Discourages players who try to get the item over and over and over and over again for their own use while the other members in the group get lots and lots of the item that they will either vend or deconstruct, including ones that this player would use.
3) Takes valuable items from the economy. Currently there are VERY few high value items as the most valuable items are things that are simply rare and not really practical.
4) Discourages re-playability of content. I have several helms of the kind I want so I have no reason to repeat content, this leaves those who want to do the content to get the exact one they want with a smaller pool of players to go with them.
There are more reasons why BoP is detrimental to the health of an MMORPG when overused (or used at all imo) as it is
Keep in mind I am not referring to Bind on Equip which makes sense considering the game mechanics and is practically unavoidable. BoP however is simply poor design.
Some proposed solutions are:
A ) Make all BoP item's BoE (yes including pets why force us to keep or delete pets we don't want?) At the same time greatly reduce the drop rate of said BoP items.
B ) Make BoP gear from dungeons trade-able for a time, this is my least favourite because it really doesn't handle the Gold key shoulder rewards.
C ) Need before Greed system. The group you are with rolls for desirable loot, still doesn't handle shoulder BoP rewards which should be made BoE.
I believe if you implement solution A you will see a much happier economy and healthier game with more replayability of content.
Just let BoP item's from cash shop and pass all others BoE
because BoP system sucks
What system tamriel unlimited should have ?
If you have an other suggestion : Don't vote and explain
This argument is just flat out horrible lol.
The guy lists one "pluses" and four "minuses" and the points are not even thought out completely.
Lets take his "minus" #4, if you changed all gear to BoE then what is the point for people to even run an instance when you will have farmers selling stuff in guild stores; which would happen 100%. The current problem is that people are lazy and once they get their gear, they ignore people and never run stuff again. Its not the developers fault people are selfish, its the gamers fault for being that way. I have the helm and shoulder sets I need, but I still run the daily everyday and I still help out tons of people. Its a matter of having a more friendly community over having BoE gear. BoE gear would ruin the economy, like @Panda244 said.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭People claiming that BoE would hurt the economy of the game... What economy? This game has no economy beside potions, mainly because of the plain itemization design. Ofcourse 1.6 pushed alot of sales because of the steep changes but otherwise the economy is near inexistent.
BoE would actually create a healthy economy driven by players and in time will settle by itself.
Solution A seems the best. Tanquill`s seems good aswell.
I agrée ESO has no economy fault of BoP mainly. And everything is TOO easy to get.
Just yesterday I spent 750k gold purchasing & upgrading 4 Morag Tong daggers, Morag Tong boots, 3x Ravager jewelry. "No economy" indeed... furthermore, the trading guild I'm in (which has 490~ active members) sees hundreds, if not thousands of transactions every day, and I make thousands just selling random equipment & crafting materials.
How about sticking to facts instead of coming up with fallacies?
A healthy mix of BoE & BoP gear is always good; you still have to run Sanctum or land in top 2% of PvP leaderboard to get Vicious Ophidian, which is still worth wearing (atleast 3 pieces).
They should also buff the light/heavy sets to make them worth getting also (which is another topic entirely though).
^If not keeping the current system then the need before greed system.
I like the excitement of rolling for an item. Seems more of a competition and more engaged with the other players instead of 4 individuals running together.
I must say that "solution a" is a horrible, horrible way to go about "fixing" this issue. It will ruin gear progression and the economy in a heartbeat. No good.
So many flaws in that I cannot believe people are voting this up. Clearly, they have not thought it through.
This I agree with completely.
Off topic:
The itemization in general could use an overhaul. Getting items is not that "exciting", when it's usually just another +X stamina, or another 1k stamina set bonus.
Having multiple enchantments on gear would go a long way on fixing this.
E.g.
Armour Piece A: 1k armour, +621 stamina, +205 crit rating
Armour Piece B: 1,2k armour, +521 stamina, +238 health & +184 crit rating
Armour Piece C: 1,1k armour, +600 stamina, reflects X damage when hit by melee attack, +98 crit rating
etc.1 -
maryriv✭✭✭✭Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »I will quote something with I totally agree.kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »For those of you who don't know Bind on Pickup or (BoP) is a method MMORPG games use to restrict gear and other items by making them unable to be traded or sold after you pick them up.
In the past it has been used as a band-aide "fix" to items the developers didn't want people passing to others so instead of incentivizing them not to, they simply forced them to not be able to trade or sell the item.
This becomes more poignant when considering the Undaunted Pledges for example when dealing with the 2 pc sets.
The pluses to this mechanic are:
1) Stops developers from letting an item be traded or sold.
The minuses to this are:
1) Deters people who would be motivated to do content in order to "farm" items to sell, gift or trade to friends, family or others.
2) Discourages players who try to get the item over and over and over and over again for their own use while the other members in the group get lots and lots of the item that they will either vend or deconstruct, including ones that this player would use.
3) Takes valuable items from the economy. Currently there are VERY few high value items as the most valuable items are things that are simply rare and not really practical.
4) Discourages re-playability of content. I have several helms of the kind I want so I have no reason to repeat content, this leaves those who want to do the content to get the exact one they want with a smaller pool of players to go with them.
There are more reasons why BoP is detrimental to the health of an MMORPG when overused (or used at all imo) as it is
Keep in mind I am not referring to Bind on Equip which makes sense considering the game mechanics and is practically unavoidable. BoP however is simply poor design.
Some proposed solutions are:
A ) Make all BoP item's BoE (yes including pets why force us to keep or delete pets we don't want?) At the same time greatly reduce the drop rate of said BoP items.
B ) Make BoP gear from dungeons trade-able for a time, this is my least favourite because it really doesn't handle the Gold key shoulder rewards.
C ) Need before Greed system. The group you are with rolls for desirable loot, still doesn't handle shoulder BoP rewards which should be made BoE.
I believe if you implement solution A you will see a much happier economy and healthier game with more replayability of content.
Just let BoP item's from cash shop and pass all others BoE
because BoP system sucks
What system tamriel unlimited should have ?
If you have an other suggestion : Don't vote and explain
This argument is just flat out horrible lol.
The guy lists one "pluses" and four "minuses" and the points are not even thought out completely.
Lets take his "minus" #4, if you changed all gear to BoE then what is the point for people to even run an instance when you will have farmers selling stuff in guild stores; which would happen 100%. The current problem is that people are lazy and once they get their gear, they ignore people and never run stuff again. Its not the developers fault people are selfish, its the gamers fault for being that way. I have the helm and shoulder sets I need, but I still run the daily everyday and I still help out tons of people. Its a matter of having a more friendly community over having BoE gear. BoE gear would ruin the economy, like @Panda244 said.
This is wrong. First of all as the OP stated he has all his items already and tried helping others but they never got their items obviously because of RNG.
The current BoP system is ruining the economy.1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not finding gear too terribly difficult to obtain or too expensive to purchase.
Really? When was the last time you purchased a Valkyn Skoria set in a guild store?
NEVER, that's when. The BoP system is horribly biased against solo grinders, who have been supporting this game since launch and are probably the majority of players at this point.
#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
maryriv✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »I'm not finding gear too terribly difficult to obtain or too expensive to purchase.
Really? When was the last time you purchased a Valkyn Skoria set in a guild store?
NEVER, that's when. The BoP system is horribly biased against solo grinders, who have been supporting this game since launch and are probably the majority of players at this point.
That's a great point too Emma, BoP alienates all sorts of players not just those who do the dungeons.1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »I will quote something with I totally agree.kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »For those of you who don't know Bind on Pickup or (BoP) is a method MMORPG games use to restrict gear and other items by making them unable to be traded or sold after you pick them up.
In the past it has been used as a band-aide "fix" to items the developers didn't want people passing to others so instead of incentivizing them not to, they simply forced them to not be able to trade or sell the item.
This becomes more poignant when considering the Undaunted Pledges for example when dealing with the 2 pc sets.
The pluses to this mechanic are:
1) Stops developers from letting an item be traded or sold.
The minuses to this are:
1) Deters people who would be motivated to do content in order to "farm" items to sell, gift or trade to friends, family or others.
2) Discourages players who try to get the item over and over and over and over again for their own use while the other members in the group get lots and lots of the item that they will either vend or deconstruct, including ones that this player would use.
3) Takes valuable items from the economy. Currently there are VERY few high value items as the most valuable items are things that are simply rare and not really practical.
4) Discourages re-playability of content. I have several helms of the kind I want so I have no reason to repeat content, this leaves those who want to do the content to get the exact one they want with a smaller pool of players to go with them.
There are more reasons why BoP is detrimental to the health of an MMORPG when overused (or used at all imo) as it is
Keep in mind I am not referring to Bind on Equip which makes sense considering the game mechanics and is practically unavoidable. BoP however is simply poor design.
Some proposed solutions are:
A ) Make all BoP item's BoE (yes including pets why force us to keep or delete pets we don't want?) At the same time greatly reduce the drop rate of said BoP items.
B ) Make BoP gear from dungeons trade-able for a time, this is my least favourite because it really doesn't handle the Gold key shoulder rewards.
C ) Need before Greed system. The group you are with rolls for desirable loot, still doesn't handle shoulder BoP rewards which should be made BoE.
I believe if you implement solution A you will see a much happier economy and healthier game with more replayability of content.
Just let BoP item's from cash shop and pass all others BoE
because BoP system sucks
What system tamriel unlimited should have ?
If you have an other suggestion : Don't vote and explain
BoE gear would ruin the economy, like @Panda244 said.
People keep saying this, but they refuse to explain how making BoP items BoE would "ruin" the economy...#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
Biiiiiii✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »
That's true.
If you played GW 1. This game had no Bop system, no Hotel sales/markets (I think you say like that in English) and the economy was very strong. The trading was something awesome to do in that game.
All item's was BoE. Well If we include rare item's in ESO and we open all BoP item's to the market (except item's from shop) it will energize the economy like Emma said.2 -
Thymos✭✭✭✭✭Looks like a good sample has spoken about letting it be.The Older Gamers Recruitment Thread
Always accepting new members for NA and EU server. PvP PvE RP all welcome. Must be 25+ yo to join.
http://www.theoldergamers.com/0 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭Leave it as is, everyone gets their own loot. If you didn't get lucky with the roll try again, this is a fair system. Trying to make it so people don't have to do the content to get gear is dumb. Making all gear BOE would support 3rd party sites in a few ways, they would sell gold to the people who want their gear now, and it would drive the prices of stuff way up as the drop rates would be most likely nerfed.Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »
That's true.
If you played GW 1. This game had no Bop system, no Hotel sales/markets (I think you say like that in English) and the economy was very strong. The trading was something awesome to do in that game.
All item's was BoE. Well If we include rare item's in ESO and we open all BoP item's to the market (except item's from shop) it will energize the economy like Emma said.
Market is in good condition already.
Make everything BoP however, and you kill every incentive to run end game content (which GW1 you mentioned did not have).
Only real reason people would want BoP gear become BoE, is so they would get best gear without having to spend any effort, or even be good at the game.
As a dedicated gamer, that is something I (and many others) disagree with.Edited by DDuke on March 18, 2015 5:51PM0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »
That's true.
If you played GW 1. This game had no Bop system, no Hotel sales/markets (I think you say like that in English) and the economy was very strong. The trading was something awesome to do in that game.
All item's was BoE. Well If we include rare item's in ESO and we open all BoP item's to the market (except item's from shop) it will energize the economy like Emma said.
Market is in good condition already.
Make everything BoP however, and you kill every incentive to run end game content (which GW1 you mentioned did not have).
Only real reason people would want BoP gear become BoE, is so they would get best gear without having to spend any effort, or even be good at the game.
As a dedicated gamer, that is something I (and many others) disagree with.
We've had this argument before, in other threads. Powerful sets like Warlock, Light of Cyrodill and Arch-Mage are BoE, and there is nothing "instant" about acquiring these sets, I can assure you. I've been trying for MONTHS to put together a full Arch-Mage set, and I'm sill missing the last piece! Do you think grinding the 200,000 G for ONE Warlock ring is instant?
If sets like Wise Mage were BoE, the players who run Trials could make tons of gold to pay for all the tri-stat potions they guzzle, and solo grinders could finally get the gear they want. Everyone would be happy... everyone except selfish players who want to hog all the best gear to themselves.
"Market is in good condition already."
LOL, no, a market that doesn't sell the stuff people want at any price is a BROKEN market!
Finally, I object to your insinuation that solo grinders aren't "dedicated". I've played ESO 6-8 hours per day since June of 2014, so I think I'm pretty darned dedicated!Edited by Emma_Overload on March 18, 2015 6:05PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
spoqster✭✭✭✭✭I really liked this idea by @Dagoth_Rac mentioned in another thread.Dagoth_Rac wrote: »New Equipment Type: Equip on Achievement
These items can be sold and traded just like Bind on Equip, but you cannot actually use them unless you have a certain achievement tied to the piece. So let Valkyn Skoria at the end of Vet City of Ash drop his unique helmet. But it will be Bind On Achievement with the associated achievement being "City of Ash Conqueror". And so on for PvP achievements and Trials Achievements and Dragonstar Arena achievements, etc., etc.
Now you have created an economy for difficult content rewards without losing the exclusivity of those rewards going to only those who have earned them.
It's from here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/146744/challenge-can-you-come-up-with-a-gear-system-that-works-without-boe, where I made another comment following up on the idea:
I think this can easily be done with a bit of imagination.Dagoth_Rac wrote: »New Equipment Type: Equip on Achievement
These items can be sold and traded just like Bind on Equip, but you cannot actually use them unless you have a certain achievement tied to the piece. So let Valkyn Skoria at the end of Vet City of Ash drop his unique helmet. But it will be Bind On Achievement with the associated achievement being "City of Ash Conqueror". And so on for PvP achievements and Trials Achievements and Dragonstar Arena achievements, etc., etc.
Now you have created an economy for difficult content rewards without losing the exclusivity of those rewards going to only those who have earned them.
And how would this promote replayability of the content? You'd just do content once & then buy all the gear (since gold is so easy to come by).
Within a week or so, each end game guild would be fully geared up & they'd have nothing left to do (no, grinding content just for items to sell isn't particularly interesting).- You can have multiple sets per dungeon associated with achievements of different difficulty.
- You can require 5 successful runs per achievement and make the highest achievement so difficult that it *really* takes a lot of runs to get your 5 successes, even if you are a pro player.
- You can control the drop rate of items on a per user level, like, for example, limiting drop rates to one item per set per user per week.
Just ideas. I'm sure there are more and even better ideas out there.
Edited by spoqster on March 18, 2015 6:37PM0 -
jluceyub17_ESO✭✭✭Solution A will break the economy, plain and simple. I think it'd be better if all gear that is BoP, is BoE for a set period of time. Kind of like the SW:TOR Cartel Gear in reverse, after X amount of time it becomes permanently bound to whoever is holding it, trading it to someone else doesn't reset the timer, and you can't put the items on the market, you have to legitimately trade them with another person.
You're forgetting that there was a week back in August or September where the AA and HRC Trial loot was accidentally changed to BoE in a patch. After a few days of over-pricing the gear settled into trading at around the same prices rare BoE loot like Ravager and Morag Tong currently trade at. This wouldn't break the economy.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Emma_Eunjung wrote: »
That's true.
If you played GW 1. This game had no Bop system, no Hotel sales/markets (I think you say like that in English) and the economy was very strong. The trading was something awesome to do in that game.
All item's was BoE. Well If we include rare item's in ESO and we open all BoP item's to the market (except item's from shop) it will energize the economy like Emma said.
Market is in good condition already.
Make everything BoP however, and you kill every incentive to run end game content (which GW1 you mentioned did not have).
Only real reason people would want BoP gear become BoE, is so they would get best gear without having to spend any effort, or even be good at the game.
As a dedicated gamer, that is something I (and many others) disagree with.
We've had this argument before, in other threads. Powerful sets like Warlock, Light of Cyrodill and Arch-Mage are BoE, and there is nothing "instant" about acquiring these sets, I can assure you. I've been trying for MONTHS to put together a full Arch-Mage set, and I'm sill missing the last piece! Do you think grinding the 200,000 G for ONE Warlock ring is instant?
If sets like Wise Mage were BoE, the players who run Trials could make tons of gold to pay for all the tri-stat potions they guzzle, and solo grinders could finally get the gear they want. Everyone would be happy... everyone except selfish players who want to hog all the best gear to themselves.
"Market is in good condition already."
LOL, no, a market that doesn't sell the stuff people want at any price is a BROKEN market!
Finally, I object to your insinuation that solo grinders aren't "dedicated". I've played ESO 6-8 hours per day since June of 2014, so I think I'm pretty darned dedicated!
I'd like you to point out where I stated "solo grinders" (must be an awful lot of them playing Massively Multiplayer Online RPGs) couldn't be dedicated.
However, dedication =/= playing a lot. Dedication is achieving your goals, no matter what.
The set you mentioned I could get in 15 minutes by trading gold for AP, or by visiting my trading guild's store. There is nothing difficult about that.
If you truly haven't been able to get one after months, I must
a) question your sincerity
b) question your choice of trading guild (doesn't really matter, you can visit any guild's store even if you aren't a member)
Also, what's this about market not selling the stuff people want? I've sold over 100 items past week alone (gear & crafting mats).
So yes, it sounds to me like you're expressing your desire to gain gear X without going through the challenge associated with it. Sounds very much like Pay to Win to me.2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jluceyub17_ESO wrote: »Solution A will break the economy, plain and simple. I think it'd be better if all gear that is BoP, is BoE for a set period of time. Kind of like the SW:TOR Cartel Gear in reverse, after X amount of time it becomes permanently bound to whoever is holding it, trading it to someone else doesn't reset the timer, and you can't put the items on the market, you have to legitimately trade them with another person.
You're forgetting that there was a week back in August or September where the AA and HRC Trial loot was accidentally changed to BoE in a patch. After a few days of over-pricing the gear settled into trading at around the same prices rare BoE loot like Ravager and Morag Tong currently trade at. This wouldn't break the economy.
You know why that was reverted? Because end game raiders were leaving the game & there was a major outrage on the forums.
Also, pretty much no one was doing these Trials after that (used to be people LFGing/LFMing all the time on zone chat even).1 -
Panda244✭✭✭✭✭
✭Okay let me rephrase that.
Solution A will break the economy because those that are rich will get richer while those that are poor will get poorer, PvE players will have loads more money than PvP players because they're now selling all these sets. While PvP players will get loads poorer because they're buying all these sets rather than grinding them, sure, the economy would balance out eventually and it would be better... But I'd rather not hope for that and know that for a few months prices for certain item sets would be outrageous. BoP is in the game for a reason.
I do support the temporary thing of letting people trade the sets or having them bind after a set period of time, but having everything BoE is just... Eh.. Coming from a poor persons' point of view, 20k at least in my coin purse at all times. It'll hurt people like me at the start, before it starts helping, as for solo players. You're not supposed to be able to obtain endgame gear alone in an MMO. That's just simple logic, come on people, sure it was marketed as an Elder Scrolls game, but it's an MMO. I will never support the ability to let people solo absolutely everything in the game for the best gear, as much as I enjoy soloing stuff myself for the challenge, it's just silly stupid.
Lastly, because I know someone will say it. 20k gold is dirt poor. There's dozens of people out there with over a million.
Aldmeri Dominion For Life!
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N'tel Arlena - NB - V14 - Retired Sap Tank of Haderus NA, Harasser of Many (Also, not a vampire. Goes by nickname Nutella.)
#FreeZazeer
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#FreeAsgari
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#FreeMBF
Officially Resigned From Cyrodiil As Of 4/15/15 10:24 PM EST.3 -
Bfish22090✭✭✭✭✭Make it all boe so we can buy ten billion gold from gold farmers then buy the best gear and WIN0
-
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Emma_Eunjung wrote: »
That's true.
If you played GW 1. This game had no Bop system, no Hotel sales/markets (I think you say like that in English) and the economy was very strong. The trading was something awesome to do in that game.
All item's was BoE. Well If we include rare item's in ESO and we open all BoP item's to the market (except item's from shop) it will energize the economy like Emma said.
Market is in good condition already.
Make everything BoP however, and you kill every incentive to run end game content (which GW1 you mentioned did not have).
Only real reason people would want BoP gear become BoE, is so they would get best gear without having to spend any effort, or even be good at the game.
As a dedicated gamer, that is something I (and many others) disagree with.
We've had this argument before, in other threads. Powerful sets like Warlock, Light of Cyrodill and Arch-Mage are BoE, and there is nothing "instant" about acquiring these sets, I can assure you. I've been trying for MONTHS to put together a full Arch-Mage set, and I'm sill missing the last piece! Do you think grinding the 200,000 G for ONE Warlock ring is instant?
If sets like Wise Mage were BoE, the players who run Trials could make tons of gold to pay for all the tri-stat potions they guzzle, and solo grinders could finally get the gear they want. Everyone would be happy... everyone except selfish players who want to hog all the best gear to themselves.
"Market is in good condition already."
LOL, no, a market that doesn't sell the stuff people want at any price is a BROKEN market!
Finally, I object to your insinuation that solo grinders aren't "dedicated". I've played ESO 6-8 hours per day since June of 2014, so I think I'm pretty darned dedicated!
I'd like you to point out where I stated "solo grinders" (must be an awful lot of them playing Massively Multiplayer Online RPGs) couldn't be dedicated.
However, dedication =/= playing a lot. Dedication is achieving your goals, no matter what.
The set you mentioned I could get in 15 minutes by trading gold for AP, or by visiting my trading guild's store. There is nothing difficult about that.
If you truly haven't been able to get one after months, I must
a) question your sincerity
b) question your choice of trading guild (doesn't really matter, you can visit any guild's store even if you aren't a member)
Also, what's this about market not selling the stuff people want? I've sold over 100 items past week alone (gear & crafting mats).
So yes, it sounds to me like you're expressing your desire to gain gear X without going through the challenge associated with it. Sounds very much like Pay to Win to me.
You didn't state it, that's why I called it an INSINUATION, which I derived from your comment, "As a dedicated gamer, that is something I (and many others) disagree with". That comment makes it sound as if you believe that gamers who disagree with you are not "dedicated".
Well I disagree with you, and I am very dedicated.
My desire IS to earn items by conquering challenging content. As long ZoS stubbornly refuses to make ALL playable content available to ALL paying players, regardless of whether they are in a group of 12 or 4 or 2 or just ONE, I will continue to campaign for the item rewards from that content to be made salable on the open market. At least that way players can purchase the items with gold they earn while completing OTHER challenging goals.
"The set you mentioned I could get in 15 minutes by trading gold for AP"
This isn't the first time I've heard people talk about trading gold for AP. How do you do it? I've never seen any interface for doing this.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
jluceyub17_ESO✭✭✭jluceyub17_ESO wrote: »Solution A will break the economy, plain and simple. I think it'd be better if all gear that is BoP, is BoE for a set period of time. Kind of like the SW:TOR Cartel Gear in reverse, after X amount of time it becomes permanently bound to whoever is holding it, trading it to someone else doesn't reset the timer, and you can't put the items on the market, you have to legitimately trade them with another person.
You're forgetting that there was a week back in August or September where the AA and HRC Trial loot was accidentally changed to BoE in a patch. After a few days of over-pricing the gear settled into trading at around the same prices rare BoE loot like Ravager and Morag Tong currently trade at. This wouldn't break the economy.
You know why that was reverted? Because end game raiders were leaving the game & there was a major outrage on the forums.
Also, pretty much no one was doing these Trials after that (used to be people LFGing/LFMing all the time on zone chat even).
Uh, maybe on the EU side that was happening, but I don't know of anyone who left on the NA side because they could now sell the gear they already had multiple copies of, and from what I remember people wanted to run the Trials even more because they could now make money from selling the loot if they got a piece they didn't want (90% of trial drops). I wasn't very active on the forums at that time so I'll take your word for there being outrage over this. I guess you Euro socialists just didn't like the opportunity to make a quick buck, that's why America is #1 (in obesity).
Also, the main reason it was reverted is because it was an accidental side-effect of adding the Hard Mode gear.Edited by jluceyub17_ESO on March 18, 2015 8:19PM0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Okay let me rephrase that.
Solution A will break the economy because those that are rich will get richer while those that are poor will get poorer, PvE players will have loads more money than PvP players because they're now selling all these sets. While PvP players will get loads poorer because they're buying all these sets rather than grinding them, sure, the economy would balance out eventually and it would be better... But I'd rather not hope for that and know that for a few months prices for certain item sets would be outrageous. BoP is in the game for a reason.
I do support the temporary thing of letting people trade the sets or having them bind after a set period of time, but having everything BoE is just... Eh.. Coming from a poor persons' point of view, 20k at least in my coin purse at all times. It'll hurt people like me at the start, before it starts helping, as for solo players. You're not supposed to be able to obtain endgame gear alone in an MMO. That's just simple logic, come on people, sure it was marketed as an Elder Scrolls game, but it's an MMO. I will never support the ability to let people solo absolutely everything in the game for the best gear, as much as I enjoy soloing stuff myself for the challenge, it's just silly stupid.
Lastly, because I know someone will say it. 20k gold is dirt poor. There's dozens of people out there with over a million.
I really don't understand this argument. If you are already acquiring the BoP items in question by group raiding, how would it hurt YOU to have the ability to sell those items you didn't need or already had for gold? If you are a solo player or PVPer who doesn't PVE raid, how would it hurt YOU to be able to buy those items from somebody else? If you don't have much gold, there are NO barriers in the game preventing you from grinding for gold whenever you want. There ARE, however, significant, artificial barriers to solo players from acquiring items from certain content, e.g. Trials that require 12 players to stand on teleport pads in order to progress.
The only people I could see being "hurt" by BoE are people who already have access to the items they want and simply don't want other players to have them, too, out of sheer selfishness. I don't have any sympathy for that point of view.Edited by Emma_Overload on March 18, 2015 8:30PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭At this moment 35 votes for delete BoP and change the system for another solution and 25 for let BoP system.
Out of a very small sample set of people that saw the topic and bothered to vote in the biased poll.
Yup... pretty telling there!Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror2