BoP system - What ZOS should do ? Come & Vote !

maryriv

Welcome back, yes this is a serious issue and will continue unabated if not addressed.

coldreactive_ESO

Solution A won't work because economy issues, and Solution C won't work easily because players will "Need" items they don't need.

maryriv

Solution A will help the economy.

coldreactive_ESO

maryriv wrote: »

Solution A will help the economy.

Implement trade chat first or an auction house of sorts.

Cherryblossom

Economy?

Is there an Economy in this game?

Zargorius

The poll is biased and OP sounds like a broken disc. BOP is fine as it is and Aedra save us from the "player driven" economy and all the "emergent" game-play that the global auction houses bring in.

Biiiiiii

Zargorius wrote: »

The poll is biased and OP sounds like a broken disc. BOP is fine as it is and Aedra save us from the "player driven" economy and all the "emergent" game-play that the global auction houses bring in.

Majority people who want to keep BOP system have the same speech cuz the poll doesn't go in their opinion.

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Economy?

Is there an Economy in this game?

I agree with that, that's why we need changes. Imo

Aballister

I'd rather see the DDO system, items have a chance of permanent damange when repired.

Robotmafia

if all items become boe then it raises the value of gold farming over the value of skill and the ability of completing hard content... one could basically farm gold and buy a full set of end game armor without ever playing the content needed.. I understand your issue concerning gold key shoulders.. but its only one piece which will eventually become obsolete like all gear does when new things are introduced.

liammozzb16_ESO

As somebody who ran MC for five years before Garr dropped the left bracer for the thunderfury quest and killed the Barron over 5000 times before he dropped the mount in WoW. I say leave it the way it is. What's the point of running dungeons if you can just buy the items.

Might as well just let anything drop it.

Zorrashi

Unless there is some method for the said BoP items to be perishable/decay-able, it will only be a matter of time before they are available in such supply in he market to the point that it will likely be detrimental to the game (imo of course).

Nothing more irritating than people buying epic gear to buy their way through difficult content to then complain that their rewards are worthless in some form or another (either they only go for so much in the AH or they already have them because they were up in the AH). But then again, with the way trade is set up in ESO, perhaps the regional market factor might be able to stabilize the price/supply factor (again, so long as the items in question have a chance to decay/perish).

cozmon3c_ESO

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

Chou wrote: »

I will quote something with I totally agree.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

For those of you who don't know Bind on Pickup or (BoP) is a method MMORPG games use to restrict gear and other items by making them unable to be traded or sold after you pick them up.

In the past it has been used as a band-aide "fix" to items the developers didn't want people passing to others so instead of incentivizing them not to, they simply forced them to not be able to trade or sell the item.

This becomes more poignant when considering the Undaunted Pledges for example when dealing with the 2 pc sets.

The pluses to this mechanic are:

1) Stops developers from letting an item be traded or sold.

The minuses to this are:

1) Deters people who would be motivated to do content in order to "farm" items to sell, gift or trade to friends, family or others.

2) Discourages players who try to get the item over and over and over and over again for their own use while the other members in the group get lots and lots of the item that they will either vend or deconstruct, including ones that this player would use.

3) Takes valuable items from the economy. Currently there are VERY few high value items as the most valuable items are things that are simply rare and not really practical.

4) Discourages re-playability of content. I have several helms of the kind I want so I have no reason to repeat content, this leaves those who want to do the content to get the exact one they want with a smaller pool of players to go with them.

There are more reasons why BoP is detrimental to the health of an MMORPG when overused (or used at all imo) as it is

Keep in mind I am not referring to Bind on Equip which makes sense considering the game mechanics and is practically unavoidable. BoP however is simply poor design.

Some proposed solutions are:

A ) Make all BoP item's BoE (yes including pets why force us to keep or delete pets we don't want?) At the same time greatly reduce the drop rate of said BoP items.

B ) Make BoP gear from dungeons trade-able for a time, this is my least favourite because it really doesn't handle the Gold key shoulder rewards.

C ) Need before Greed system. The group you are with rolls for desirable loot, still doesn't handle shoulder BoP rewards which should be made BoE.

I believe if you implement solution A you will see a much happier economy and healthier game with more replayability of content.

Just let BoP item's from cash shop and pass all others BoE

because BoP system sucks

What system tamriel unlimited should have ?

If you have an other suggestion : Don't vote and explain

This argument is just flat out horrible lol.

The guy lists one "pluses" and four "minuses" and the points are not even thought out completely.

Lets take his "minus" #4, if you changed all gear to BoE then what is the point for people to even run an instance when you will have farmers selling stuff in guild stores; which would happen 100%. The current problem is that people are lazy and once they get their gear, they ignore people and never run stuff again. Its not the developers fault people are selfish, its the gamers fault for being that way. I have the helm and shoulder sets I need, but I still run the daily everyday and I still help out tons of people. Its a matter of having a more friendly community over having BoE gear. BoE gear would ruin the economy, like @Panda244 said.

you mean boe would degrade pve content, not ruin the economy.

adding rare items to the economy will boost the economy.
but gives a way to bypass raid gear if its all boe degrading the content of the raids.

this already happens with pvp gear, which is all boe
this gear boost the economy because its rare.
but gives a way for pve'ers to get the gear which degrades the content of pvp.

why dont we just equalize this and make everything boe, drop the rate at which items drop in pve, and trade/sell more items in guild stores boosting the economy while also keeping pve content relavent, and equalizing how gear is distributed between pve and pvp.

maryriv

Zorrashi wrote: »

Unless there is some method for the said BoP items to be perishable/decay-able, it will only be a matter of time before they are available in such supply in he market to the point that it will likely be detrimental to the game (imo of course).

Nothing more irritating than people buying epic gear to buy their way through difficult content to then complain that their rewards are worthless in some form or another (either they only go for so much in the AH or they already have them because they were up in the AH). But then again, with the way trade is set up in ESO, perhaps the regional market factor might be able to stabilize the price/supply factor (again, so long as the items in question have a chance to decay/perish).

Which is why the "adjust the RNG" is added into option A. It really is the best option for the entire health of the game.

cozmon3c_ESO

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Chou wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Solution A will break the economy, plain and simple.

How? I predict exactly the opposite. I think opening all BoP items to the market would ENERGIZE the economy.

That's true.
If you played GW 1. This game had no Bop system, no Hotel sales/markets (I think you say like that in English) and the economy was very strong. The trading was something awesome to do in that game.

All item's was BoE. Well If we include rare item's in ESO and we open all BoP item's to the market (except item's from shop) it will energize the economy like Emma said.

Market is in good condition already.

Make everything BoP however, and you kill every incentive to run end game content (which GW1 you mentioned did not have).

Only real reason people would want BoP gear become BoE, is so they would get best gear without having to spend any effort, or even be good at the game.
As a dedicated gamer, that is something I (and many others) disagree with.

We've had this argument before, in other threads. Powerful sets like Warlock, Light of Cyrodill and Arch-Mage are BoE, and there is nothing "instant" about acquiring these sets, I can assure you. I've been trying for MONTHS to put together a full Arch-Mage set, and I'm sill missing the last piece! Do you think grinding the 200,000 G for ONE Warlock ring is instant?

If sets like Wise Mage were BoE, the players who run Trials could make tons of gold to pay for all the tri-stat potions they guzzle, and solo grinders could finally get the gear they want. Everyone would be happy... everyone except selfish players who want to hog all the best gear to themselves.

"Market is in good condition already."

LOL, no, a market that doesn't sell the stuff people want at any price is a BROKEN market!

Finally, I object to your insinuation that solo grinders aren't "dedicated". I've played ESO 6-8 hours per day since June of 2014, so I think I'm pretty darned dedicated!

I'd like you to point out where I stated "solo grinders" (must be an awful lot of them playing Massively Multiplayer Online RPGs) couldn't be dedicated.

However, dedication =/= playing a lot. Dedication is achieving your goals, no matter what.


The set you mentioned I could get in 15 minutes by trading gold for AP, or by visiting my trading guild's store. There is nothing difficult about that.
If you truly haven't been able to get one after months, I must
a) question your sincerity
b) question your choice of trading guild (doesn't really matter, you can visit any guild's store even if you aren't a member)

Also, what's this about market not selling the stuff people want? I've sold over 100 items past week alone (gear & crafting mats).


So yes, it sounds to me like you're expressing your desire to gain gear X without going through the challenge associated with it. Sounds very much like Pay to Win to me.

You didn't state it, that's why I called it an INSINUATION, which I derived from your comment, "As a dedicated gamer, that is something I (and many others) disagree with". That comment makes it sound as if you believe that gamers who disagree with you are not "dedicated".

Well I disagree with you, and I am very dedicated.

My desire IS to earn items by conquering challenging content. As long ZoS stubbornly refuses to make ALL playable content available to ALL paying players, regardless of whether they are in a group of 12 or 4 or 2 or just ONE, I will continue to campaign for the item rewards from that content to be made salable on the open market. At least that way players can purchase the items with gold they earn while completing OTHER challenging goals.

"The set you mentioned I could get in 15 minutes by trading gold for AP"

This isn't the first time I've heard people talk about trading gold for AP. How do you do it? I've never seen any interface for doing this.

you trade gold for ap by giving someone money who has ap and they buy the bags you want and open them for the gear you want. the person with the ap keeps everything but the gear you wanted to get and gives you those pieces. im not sure what the going rate is at the moment but im sure it changes all the time based one the selling price of pvp gear on the market.

maryriv

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

As somebody who ran MC for five years before Garr dropped the left bracer for the thunderfury quest and killed the Barron over 5000 times before he dropped the mount in WoW. I say leave it the way it is. What's the point of running dungeons if you can just buy the items.

Might as well just let anything drop it.

As stated many times before more people would run the dungeons to find pieces they want and if they don't they are able to trade or sell the other items. It would actually make people run the dungeons more not less.

AH93

Solution A would be my choice.

maryriv

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Chou wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Solution A will break the economy, plain and simple.

How? I predict exactly the opposite. I think opening all BoP items to the market would ENERGIZE the economy.

That's true.
If you played GW 1. This game had no Bop system, no Hotel sales/markets (I think you say like that in English) and the economy was very strong. The trading was something awesome to do in that game.

All item's was BoE. Well If we include rare item's in ESO and we open all BoP item's to the market (except item's from shop) it will energize the economy like Emma said.

Market is in good condition already.

Make everything BoP however, and you kill every incentive to run end game content (which GW1 you mentioned did not have).

Only real reason people would want BoP gear become BoE, is so they would get best gear without having to spend any effort, or even be good at the game.
As a dedicated gamer, that is something I (and many others) disagree with.

We've had this argument before, in other threads. Powerful sets like Warlock, Light of Cyrodill and Arch-Mage are BoE, and there is nothing "instant" about acquiring these sets, I can assure you. I've been trying for MONTHS to put together a full Arch-Mage set, and I'm sill missing the last piece! Do you think grinding the 200,000 G for ONE Warlock ring is instant?

If sets like Wise Mage were BoE, the players who run Trials could make tons of gold to pay for all the tri-stat potions they guzzle, and solo grinders could finally get the gear they want. Everyone would be happy... everyone except selfish players who want to hog all the best gear to themselves.

"Market is in good condition already."

LOL, no, a market that doesn't sell the stuff people want at any price is a BROKEN market!

Finally, I object to your insinuation that solo grinders aren't "dedicated". I've played ESO 6-8 hours per day since June of 2014, so I think I'm pretty darned dedicated!

I'd like you to point out where I stated "solo grinders" (must be an awful lot of them playing Massively Multiplayer Online RPGs) couldn't be dedicated.

However, dedication =/= playing a lot. Dedication is achieving your goals, no matter what.


The set you mentioned I could get in 15 minutes by trading gold for AP, or by visiting my trading guild's store. There is nothing difficult about that.
If you truly haven't been able to get one after months, I must
a) question your sincerity
b) question your choice of trading guild (doesn't really matter, you can visit any guild's store even if you aren't a member)

Also, what's this about market not selling the stuff people want? I've sold over 100 items past week alone (gear & crafting mats).


So yes, it sounds to me like you're expressing your desire to gain gear X without going through the challenge associated with it. Sounds very much like Pay to Win to me.

You didn't state it, that's why I called it an INSINUATION, which I derived from your comment, "As a dedicated gamer, that is something I (and many others) disagree with". That comment makes it sound as if you believe that gamers who disagree with you are not "dedicated".

Well I disagree with you, and I am very dedicated.

My desire IS to earn items by conquering challenging content. As long ZoS stubbornly refuses to make ALL playable content available to ALL paying players, regardless of whether they are in a group of 12 or 4 or 2 or just ONE, I will continue to campaign for the item rewards from that content to be made salable on the open market. At least that way players can purchase the items with gold they earn while completing OTHER challenging goals.

"The set you mentioned I could get in 15 minutes by trading gold for AP"

This isn't the first time I've heard people talk about trading gold for AP. How do you do it? I've never seen any interface for doing this.

you trade gold for ap by giving someone money who has ap and they buy the bags you want and open them for the gear you want. the person with the ap keeps everything but the gear you wanted to get and gives you those pieces. im not sure what the going rate is at the moment but im sure it changes all the time based one the selling price of pvp gear on the market.

Very good point.

wraith808

Biiiiiii wrote: »

Zargorius wrote: »

The poll is biased and OP sounds like a broken disc. BOP is fine as it is and Aedra save us from the "player driven" economy and all the "emergent" game-play that the global auction houses bring in.

Majority people who want to keep BOP system have the same speech cuz the poll doesn't go in their opinion.

More because biased poll is biased. These polls are in no way scientific, nor are the representative of even a small percentage of those in the game.

If you said that this poll indicates that out of the people who've read this topic and decided to vote, these are the results, then I'd have no problem with what you're saying. But your fallacious argument is saying that this is the will of the vast majority of people in the game- and your data does not support that.

I don't really care one way or the other (other than thinking that basing endgame gear on a RNG that is as flaky as this one seems to be is a less than optimal choice). But if you're going to claim science, at least make your make your scientific arguments include a little science.

Emma_Overload

RSram wrote: »

The gear is supposed to be a reward for the player accomplishing an achievement that is why it's special and can't be crafted, sold , or traded. If it weren't for BoP then everyone with enough gold could have high level gear without earning it.

BoP is a perfect solution to prevent the saturation of high level gear in the game's economy.

No, it's not. It's a HORRIBLE solution because BoP guarantees that certain items won't be present in the game's economy... AT ALL. An economy that doesn't allow you to buy the stuff you want is not a functional economy. Why is that so hard to understand?

wraith808

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

RSram wrote: »

The gear is supposed to be a reward for the player accomplishing an achievement that is why it's special and can't be crafted, sold , or traded. If it weren't for BoP then everyone with enough gold could have high level gear without earning it.

BoP is a perfect solution to prevent the saturation of high level gear in the game's economy.

No, it's not. It's a HORRIBLE solution because BoP guarantees that certain items won't be present in the game's economy... AT ALL. An economy that doesn't allow you to buy the stuff you want is not a functional economy. Why is that so hard to understand?

It's still functional- it's just that the item in question is an earned item, rather than a bought item. Most games have that to one extent or another- certain items are rewards for an achievement, and are either bind on pick up or bind to account/legacy/whatever cross character they have. And they have thriving economies- just not with those particular items.

There are valid arguments for and against, but this isn't one of them.

maryriv

wraith808 wrote: »

Biiiiiii wrote: »

Zargorius wrote: »

The poll is biased and OP sounds like a broken disc. BOP is fine as it is and Aedra save us from the "player driven" economy and all the "emergent" game-play that the global auction houses bring in.

Majority people who want to keep BOP system have the same speech cuz the poll doesn't go in their opinion.

More because biased poll is biased. These polls are in no way scientific, nor are the representative of even a small percentage of those in the game.

If you said that this poll indicates that out of the people who've read this topic and decided to vote, these are the results, then I'd have no problem with what you're saying. But your fallacious argument is saying that this is the will of the vast majority of people in the game- and your data does not support that.

I don't really care one way or the other (other than thinking that basing endgame gear on a RNG that is as flaky as this one seems to be is a less than optimal choice). But if you're going to claim science, at least make your make your scientific arguments include a little science.

Is this the same "science" that used to claim the earth was flat LOL.

wraith808

maryriv wrote: »

Is this the same "science" that used to claim the earth was flat LOL.

No, it's the science that disproved it. If that's the best you can come up with...?

maryriv

wraith808 wrote: »

maryriv wrote: »

Is this the same "science" that used to claim the earth was flat LOL.

No, it's the science that disproved it. If that's the best you can come up with...?

It was still so called "scientists" that just made that stuff up to begin with.

wraith808

maryriv wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

maryriv wrote: »

Is this the same "science" that used to claim the earth was flat LOL.

No, it's the science that disproved it. If that's the best you can come up with...?

It was still so called "scientists" that just made that stuff up to begin with.

Science proposed it, and science disproved it. If you think that science is just "making stuff up", and are actually arguing that, then I suppose reason has left the building, and I'll stop trying to administer medicine to the dead.

Khalhys

maryriv wrote: »

Get rid of BoP please it ruins the economy.

What is BoP short for?

maryriv

Khalhys wrote: »

maryriv wrote: »

Get rid of BoP please it ruins the economy.

What is BoP short for?

Did you read the first article?

Khalhys

maryriv wrote: »

Did you read the first article?

To my knowledge, this is a thread about something like Bind on... whatever the "P" in it stands for...

If it's about what I THINK it is, I am more in favor of trading within reason.

MercyKilling

BOP = Bind on pickup. This means the item binds to the character and cannot be traded once picked up.

BOE = Bind on equip. Same as above, except it only binds once equipped.

Need or Greed = worst way to distribute loot ever. Should be taken out behind the shed and shot.

maryriv

MercyKilling wrote: »

BOP = Bind on pickup. This means the item binds to the character and cannot be traded once picked up.

BOE = Bind on equip. Same as above, except it only binds once equipped.

Need or Greed = worst way to distribute loot ever. Should be taken out behind the shed and shot.

Totally agree

Biiiiiii

Stop adding content in cash shop every 2weeks.

And solve the economy problems.. @Zos