1.6 And Why The Sky Is Not Falling

Alphashado · February 2015

That's happened to me on this thread as well. I keep seeing my name on quotes that I never said

helediron · February 2015

Joejudas wrote: »

im not logging into the pts you can do that yourself. and you could always provide proof to refute me

Do i understand this correctly? You haven't tried 1.6 at all?

Joejudas · February 2015

so i really needed to do a detailed breakdown of the stats since i guess people where to lazy to go look themselves and keep calling me a liar. When i took these multipliers on the live server i had all pvp bonuses with no food active...and i had food active on the pts...i didnt realise that at the time. that being condisered...the nerfs to health and stam are actually worse if you take into account i had the food active on the pts. thegear is the same on both servers. so here are the numbers :
Health 7.10
Magic 8.27
Stam 9.34
Spell damage 12.9
Spell resist 7.51
Magic regen 7.44
Health regen 8.3
Stam regen 8.24
Weapon dmg 9.66
Armor 7.33
crit for both took nerfs even though the values are not showing correctly.
i perceive all these stats as being nerfed except the spell damage which went up. Also i should tell you i had no points in any of the cp areas just to try and get the most clean comparison. I encourage you guys to discuss these numbers.

And you ignored this info when it was posted.....you know the numbers that proved the nerf

Arki · February 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

myrbostadb16_ESO3 wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

myrbostadb16_ESO3 wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

we are all the same crazy people who called bull crap before they lied about undaunted exp, and tracking exp, and the 180 day thing...and everytime we were right. this issue is actually way more cut and dry...but some people dont want to lose their parking spots at zos headquarters i guess.

We and some people. Them and us. Stop trying to simplify everything into some strange world where a bunch of ZOS fanboys stand against some elite crowd.

People have lots of opinions, respect them, give your own. Stop throwing strawmen all over the place.

oh god...I feel bad for you. Playing a game that comes out every year with nothing new added to it, just selling the same ol same ol junk lol its ok friend we all have that one weakness :P Mine happens to be tetris.

Not sure I follow you. I took a break after hittin 50, didn't like the vr cross faction concept very much. Came back after a few months and found that both my motivation and the game had improved alot.

Might do the same again if I get bored. Don't assume too much friend. As I tried to point out earlier the world isn't black or white and neither is the playerbase

@myrbostadb16_ESO3‌ for some reason the forum quoted the wrong person >_> I was trying to quote the person who mentioned CoD lol not you :P

haha ok that makes alot more sense

Khivas_Carrick · February 2015

Dave2836 wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

What level are you? And this is also very largely depending on what skills you're using.

Atm 21.

KerinKor wrote: »

Dave2836 wrote: »

The system is broken. Can we all atleast agree on that?

My templar is getting his @## kicked, not because the content is too tough, it's probably just right for the templar, I just haven't spent single attribute point yet and I keep atleast 3 skill points free at all times. I haven't progressed very far either, about to free abnur from his shackles, but I feel the difficulty is just right at lvl 21.

If your evidence for claiming the system is 'broken' is that your Templar on who you haven't spend a single Attribute Point is having a hard time doing on-level content then I think that's evidence of someone who needs to L2P, NOT that a game is broken.

The idea is that I SHOULD NOT have gotten as far as I have playing as I did. I gimped my character for a several reasons, learning to play without overly relying on skills is one of them. For the most part, i use puncturing strikes and mutagen. Relying on these two skils with an attributeless build should not have progressed farther than lvl 10.

Whats the point in attribute points if they aren't vital to progression of overall character development? A min max player considers overall efficiency and efficacy of character building, I focus on tactical challenge and luck.

Dude lol low levels are designed to be easy as to acclimate to the game for the uninitiated XD Try that no attribute *** at higher levels/end game, it won't fly

Alphashado · February 2015

Joejudas wrote: »

so i really needed to do a detailed breakdown of the stats since i guess people where to lazy to go look themselves and keep calling me a liar. When i took these multipliers on the live server i had all pvp bonuses with no food active...and i had food active on the pts...i didnt realise that at the time. that being condisered...the nerfs to health and stam are actually worse if you take into account i had the food active on the pts. thegear is the same on both servers. so here are the numbers :
Health 7.10
Magic 8.27
Stam 9.34
Spell damage 12.9
Spell resist 7.51
Magic regen 7.44
Health regen 8.3
Stam regen 8.24
Weapon dmg 9.66
Armor 7.33
crit for both took nerfs even though the values are not showing correctly.
i perceive all these stats as being nerfed except the spell damage which went up. Also i should tell you i had no points in any of the cp areas just to try and get the most clean comparison. I encourage you guys to discuss these numbers.

And you ignored this info when it was posted.....you know the numbers that proved the nerf

It was already mentioned that the soft cap addon messes with the stat conversion. But aside from that, just comparing your stats from live to 1.6 does not show you the bigger picture.

Just as an example, you mentioned yourself based on the picture you posted that health was nerfed. Yet you completely ignore people when they explain to you that it has NOT been nerfed. I demonstrated for you here http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/149710/stat-comparison-from-live-to-pts-1-6-is-it-really-a-blanket-nerf-doesnt-look-like-it/p1

and you completely ignored it and even told me that health was irrelevant. Everything is in relation to the environment. If your health goes down and the mob's health also goes down, then it's not a nerf but rather a conversion. This has been explained to you hundreds of times and you just continue to knee-jerk react to the drop in stats.

Islyn · February 2015

Gemseed wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Stop tip toeing around the issue and trying to wordsmith this whole issue and answer the question ? Do you think it's fair to hurt the character progression of the people who put the most time into the game. Stop using political talking points like "rebalancing". Yes or no. It's ok though if this goes live like this a bunch of us will leave and everyone can have a happy completely boring 50 year character progression.

Joe I answered your question in great detail.The problem lies in what we each consider a "balance" or a "nerf". We do not agree on the matter, and therefore I can't answer the question in a way that you would find preferable.

Where you think ZOS is out to get all the high-end players, I see a balance for all characters for the better of progression in the long-term. So yes, I do find it fair.

Please don't downplay my response just because you disagree. Then again, it is the internet...

Still no answer to a direct question.

Alphashado · February 2015

Islyn wrote: »

Gemseed wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Stop tip toeing around the issue and trying to wordsmith this whole issue and answer the question ? Do you think it's fair to hurt the character progression of the people who put the most time into the game. Stop using political talking points like "rebalancing". Yes or no. It's ok though if this goes live like this a bunch of us will leave and everyone can have a happy completely boring 50 year character progression.

Joe I answered your question in great detail.The problem lies in what we each consider a "balance" or a "nerf". We do not agree on the matter, and therefore I can't answer the question in a way that you would find preferable.

Where you think ZOS is out to get all the high-end players, I see a balance for all characters for the better of progression in the long-term. So yes, I do find it fair.

Please don't downplay my response just because you disagree. Then again, it is the internet...

Still no answer to a direct question.

lots of answers to that ridiculous question right here http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/149727/do-you-think-taking-away-other-peoples-progression-is-fair/p1

They are not taking anyone's progression away. Not even worth debating anymore. You guys have your opinions that that's just what it's going to be.

Islyn · February 2015

Wrong Answer to Wrong Question (and no one quoted you)

kijima · February 2015

Spent 4 hours last night on the PTS. Most of my time on the PTS has up till now been in cyro testing things, dueling etc (Radiant Destruction... so many lols about that, but I digress)

So, I thought I'd pop over to craglorn after hearing that NB's had been nerfed to the ground (the sky is falling again) on multiple targets but their single target had been buffed, or so I've read. And apparently where some players were able to solo groups of welwas easily on live, now it's apparently impossible with 1.6

Didn't have the problem myself.

My VR14 NB is a full stamina toon on live, PTS I'm 62 into stamina and still using the same medium pieces. What I've found thus far after playing around with the CP, it so far showed to me that putting a large amount of points into singular areas like weapon damage for example (if you like a glass cannon build) is really going to gimp you in 1.6 I'd wager. That is, compared to equally distributing the points across many skills anyway. The only reason for that is the diminishing returns you get when you continually spend points on the same skill. Still, I know of players that will, once 1.6 goes live dump everything into one play style, and I think (I could be wrong) that it might make them good at that one thing, but overall it'll make you weak.

The point is, I could still run around craglorn killing groups of welwas with my alleged nerfed NB with my alleged nerfed sap...

I did find it easier once I reset my points and spent them more wisely across many a skill. Seriously, that diminishing returns thing is going to hurt a LOT of people.

Honestly, I'm not seeing what all the fuss is about. What I 'think' might be the problem is some players have got used to the style of play in live and haven't adapted and tested things for themselves properly on the PTS.

Someone earlier said, 'I don't feel gimped' and the response was something like well, your not elite enough. Urgh...

I gotta say, on PTS I don't feel gimped either, and while I'm not sure if I've ever fitted into the l33t category (hopefully I've never been 'l33t') I didn't feel weak at all, I didn't feel nerfed to the ground like some people would have you think.

ZOS provided a test server, do some testing.

Things really aren't that bad, in fact I'd go as far as saying if you played your cards right, spent enough time on your toons with theory crafting now, getting synergies working well etc, I think you'll find that any toon that you've done that with will be OP as hell when 1.6 hits live, compared to those that have whinged about things on the forum and expected that their current, decent build will still be decent with the new system.

Khivas_Carrick · February 2015

kijima wrote: »

Spent 4 hours last night on the PTS. Most of my time on the PTS has up till now been in cyro testing things, dueling etc (Radiant Destruction... so many lols about that, but I digress)

So, I thought I'd pop over to craglorn after hearing that NB's had been nerfed to the ground (the sky is falling again) on multiple targets but their single target had been buffed, or so I've read. And apparently where some players were able to solo groups of welwas easily on live, now it's apparently impossible with 1.6

Didn't have the problem myself.

My VR14 NB is a full stamina toon on live, PTS I'm 62 into stamina and still using the same medium pieces. What I've found thus far after playing around with the CP, it so far showed to me that putting a large amount of points into singular areas like weapon damage for example (if you like a glass cannon build) is really going to gimp you in 1.6 I'd wager. That is, compared to equally distributing the points across many skills anyway. The only reason for that is the diminishing returns you get when you continually spend points on the same skill. Still, I know of players that will, once 1.6 goes live dump everything into one play style, and I think (I could be wrong) that it might make them good at that one thing, but overall it'll make you weak.

The point is, I could still run around craglorn killing groups of welwas with my alleged nerfed NB with my alleged nerfed sap...

I did find it easier once I reset my points and spent them more wisely across many a skill. Seriously, that diminishing returns thing is going to hurt a LOT of people.

Honestly, I'm not seeing what all the fuss is about. What I 'think' might be the problem is some players have got used to the style of play in live and haven't adapted and tested things for themselves properly on the PTS.

Someone earlier said, 'I don't feel gimped' and the response was something like well, your not elite enough. Urgh...

I gotta say, on PTS I don't feel gimped either, and while I'm not sure if I've ever fitted into the l33t category (hopefully I've never been 'l33t') I didn't feel weak at all, I didn't feel nerfed to the ground like some people would have you think.

ZOS provided a test server, do some testing.

Things really aren't that bad, in fact I'd go as far as saying if you played your cards right, spent enough time on your toons with theory crafting now, getting synergies working well etc, I think you'll find that any toon that you've done that with will be OP as hell when 1.6 hits live, compared to those that have whinged about things on the forum and expected that their current, decent build will still be decent with the new system.

Yea, I was the guy that said I don't feel gimped, and was told because I wasn't leet enough.

Nearly made me gag, especially considering how I kick ass with a currently gimp class for DPS.

*** can suck it.

helediron · February 2015

I was finally able to test my NB char from EU server on PTS. While there are many changes, overall it feels as powerful as before. Only ulti and ulti generation is nerfed. My build is one of those who were able to drop next ulti before previous ended. Single target is easier and AoE more difficult. Impale is now very strong because it crits way more often.
Sky is not falling.

Alphashado · February 2015

kijima wrote: »

Spent 4 hours last night on the PTS. Most of my time on the PTS has up till now been in cyro testing things, dueling etc (Radiant Destruction... so many lols about that, but I digress)

So, I thought I'd pop over to craglorn after hearing that NB's had been nerfed to the ground (the sky is falling again) on multiple targets but their single target had been buffed, or so I've read. And apparently where some players were able to solo groups of welwas easily on live, now it's apparently impossible with 1.6

Didn't have the problem myself.

My VR14 NB is a full stamina toon on live, PTS I'm 62 into stamina and still using the same medium pieces. What I've found thus far after playing around with the CP, it so far showed to me that putting a large amount of points into singular areas like weapon damage for example (if you like a glass cannon build) is really going to gimp you in 1.6 I'd wager. That is, compared to equally distributing the points across many skills anyway. The only reason for that is the diminishing returns you get when you continually spend points on the same skill. Still, I know of players that will, once 1.6 goes live dump everything into one play style, and I think (I could be wrong) that it might make them good at that one thing, but overall it'll make you weak.

I was under the impression that removing the soft caps meant there was no longer going to be diminishing returns on attributes or character stats. Wasn't that exactly what the soft cap was? A line drawn in the sand where diminishing returns started? So if they removed the soft caps, how are there still diminishing returns? No sarcasm here, honest question.

BalerionBlackDread · February 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

kijima wrote: »

Spent 4 hours last night on the PTS. Most of my time on the PTS has up till now been in cyro testing things, dueling etc (Radiant Destruction... so many lols about that, but I digress)

So, I thought I'd pop over to craglorn after hearing that NB's had been nerfed to the ground (the sky is falling again) on multiple targets but their single target had been buffed, or so I've read. And apparently where some players were able to solo groups of welwas easily on live, now it's apparently impossible with 1.6

Didn't have the problem myself.

My VR14 NB is a full stamina toon on live, PTS I'm 62 into stamina and still using the same medium pieces. What I've found thus far after playing around with the CP, it so far showed to me that putting a large amount of points into singular areas like weapon damage for example (if you like a glass cannon build) is really going to gimp you in 1.6 I'd wager. That is, compared to equally distributing the points across many skills anyway. The only reason for that is the diminishing returns you get when you continually spend points on the same skill. Still, I know of players that will, once 1.6 goes live dump everything into one play style, and I think (I could be wrong) that it might make them good at that one thing, but overall it'll make you weak.

I was under the impression that removing the soft caps meant there was no longer going to be diminishing returns on attributes or character stats. Wasn't that exactly what the soft cap was? A line drawn in the sand where diminishing returns started? So if they removed the soft caps, how are there still diminishing returns? No sarcasm here, honest question.

The dr is going to be on (I believe) the star itself. i.e. the first point in a star gives you 2% of something, the next one will give you 1.9% of it, and so on. I guess it's more a specific dr to each specific star rather than a dr to stats and attributes.

Berinima · February 2015

If I remember correctly you got only 50 percent of something once the line of the softcap has been crossed. So now your base stats (without any CPs applied) should not have any diminishing returns at all and the gain from the CS has DRs from the beginning but more softly (meaning the first approximately 20 points or so into a star are pretty much worth it).

kijima · February 2015

The more points you spend in a skill, the less the % goes up = DR

BlueIllyrian · February 2015

ZOS is quickly becoming one of my favourite developers, right up there with FailCom, Craptic and Turdine.

Apologies for my poor English.

Kragorn · February 2015

Not sure of the first two but I can entirely agree with the third, they sold their souls to WB and took LOTRO down the toilet.

EölMPK · February 2015

All people complaining about CS seems like when blizzard "nerferd" barbarians in d3. Those players were used to be immortal gods, but when they were put in the same lvl of other classes, people said they were nerfed.

1111scornneb18_ESO · February 2015

i just come back to see whats changed from june 2014.... and nothing..... its the exactly same..... i hope the next update feels better.. i really has thought in 7 months the change skills and things but nothing... the changes in the next update are to small imo whats with all weapon skills and all other skills the only change classes in 9 months ?, are there only 4 ppl working on zenimax ?

and the worst i joined a gild and now i could not play a wole day because i stuck on load a game breaking bug 9 months after launch

Khivas_Carrick · February 2015

1111scornneb18_ESO wrote: »

i just come back to see whats changed from june 2014.... and nothing..... its the exactly same..... i hope the next update feels better.. i really has thought in 7 months the change skills and things but nothing... the changes in the next update are to small imo whats with all weapon skills and all other skills the only change classes in 9 months ?, are there only 4 ppl working on zenimax ?

and the worst i joined a gild and now i could not play a wole day because i stuck on load a game breaking bug 9 months after launch

Is this guy for real? Lol

EölMPK · February 2015

1111scornneb18_ESO wrote: »

i just come back to see whats changed from june 2014.... and nothing..... its the exactly same..... i hope the next update feels better.. i really has thought in 7 months the change skills and things but nothing... the changes in the next update are to small imo whats with all weapon skills and all other skills the only change classes in 9 months ?, are there only 4 ppl working on zenimax ?

and the worst i joined a gild and now i could not play a wole day because i stuck on load a game breaking bug 9 months after launch

Everyone says that 1.6 is a different game dude, I think it must have some reason ahn?

1111scornneb18_ESO · February 2015

i mean that nothing has changed on live servers.... 1.6 is a change yes but for 9 months to less imo....there are so much more skill paths to balance not only class

but i may be just upset for running in a stuck on loading screen bug after coming back....

EölMPK · February 2015

1111scornneb18_ESO wrote: »

i mean that nothing has changed on live servers.... 1.6 is a change yes but for 9 months to less imo....there are so much more skill paths to balance not only class

but i may be just upset for running in a stuck on loading screen bug after coming back....

Sorry to hear that, I never got any problem like this

Paramanza · February 2015

Great post, thankyou for summing up everything I'm thinking. Really looking forward to playing 1.6.