1.6 And Why The Sky Is Not Falling

Gemseed

We have all seen it as of late. The countless threads making drastic claims of how ZOS is inevitably ruining their own game by so called "nerfing" (that word loves to be uverused by some) and balancing current in-game systems to make way for future, long standing plans and additions (e.g. CP system) to their game.

I'm hear to state my personal opinion on why these claims are not only unfounded, and frankly short-sighted.

ESO Today

Today, and for the last year, ESO has been an interesting beast. Stamina builds, until very recently, were a barely viable way of producing results in end-game content, and the balance between builds was laughable at best.

I'm sure we can all remember a time when if you were not running full light armor with a staff in hand, you were hardly considered end-game viable.

On top of this, the need to grind out countless hours into an arbitrary VR system that only really serves as an equipment gateway, and "ultimate" abilities that are used just as often as any of your standard abilities.

And well, simply put, the games current PvE content is too easy.

So what did we do? We adapted and built ourselves around these faulty systems. We use overpowered raid gear, create a build that spams ultimate abilities, drag ourselves kicking and screaming through 14 levels of VR, and then block cast our way to victory.

Just because we do this today, doesnt mean it's the way it was meant to be...

ESO Tomorrow

What I, and many other see in 1.6 is a way of ESO reinventing itself as what it has always really wanted to be. What we have all really wanted it to be.

You know the old saying, 'You can't make an omelet without cracking a few eggs"? Well, sometimes that really is the case. And you'll never get that omelet unless you're willing to try.

If things were left the way they were with a coating of CP on top, nothing would truly be better. In fact, a few month's down the road, once people acquired a modest amount of CP, things would be much, MUCH worse.

Just because we drudged through 14 VR's and built our characters around faulty systems, does not make it right.

What does CP Bring

CP brings a new form of alternate advancement that doesnt require you having to constantly grind towards perfection. If you choose to grind CP, then all the power to you, but you're doing it wrong.

The idea of CP is you play the game as you always have. You do your Trials, play PvP, run dungeons, and clear up-coming DLC at the same pace you always have. But now there's more incentive in doing so.

Now you'll feel more sense of progression in doing the things you normally do. To occasionally see that "Champion Point Available" pop up from time to time, and be able to slowly and surely build yourself towards those goals. It's a great sense of accomplishment.

You were never intended to max out CP. It's not VR, and thank god for that

Alternate advancement has been used, to great success, in many other games to date.

Why VR Has To Go

VR's are an unnecessary evil in ESO. Always have been. You've hit VR 14, and you finally have that sigh of relief. I know what it's like. I've been there. But none of us actually enjoyed it.

As it stands today, VR is little more than a equipment gating, which will still be a part of the game, but through standard gear progression. So if you hit VR14 today, and amassed all those great pieces, you'll still have all those great pieces tomorrow, as well as the +70 CP that someone who didn't struggle VR will not have (which, doing the math is a lot of CP)

Again, it's a case of just because we've all became used to it, does not mean it's right.

We Are Being Balanced, Thank God

You were not nerfed. He was not nerfed. I was not either. We have all been balanced in order to support the new systems, and make way for less broken mechanics.

As I stated earlier, PvE in this game, as it stands, is a joke. To implement systems directly over the current game would defeat the whole purpose. The only way to truly move forward is to tone down the broken systems we have today.

Does this mean ZOS is catering to the new crowd and slapping vet's in the face? No. You still have your progression, that progression (as well as ALL PROGRESSION) has just been toned down slightly to make room for further growth.

Somebody who is new will still have to go through the same amount of play time and effort to get to the same point you are today.

And frankly, the differences are fairly negligible and blown out of proportion. Again, just my opinion.

In Summation

There is no secret conspiracy that ZOS is trying to ruin their game. They are developers who do genuinely want to have a fun, successful game. They are working towards that goal, and sometimes you need to take a look back at where you went wrong, and fix it.

If you truly do not like something that is happening on the PTS, then report it. If enough people truly feel strongly enough about it, and report it in a mature manner, then I'm sure ZOS will take a second look at it. We do not need any more threads from the same 4-5 people about the same 2-3 things, anymore.

I'm not expecting everyone to agree with this post. This is my personal opinion, but I hope some of us can at least agree on certain points. Please feel free to add, in a constructive manner.

SanderBuraas

Finally someone who gets it. People tend to come up with their theories, and even anticipate when the game will stop existing. As for the business model change, it was a good change for the most part, as long as they don't go overboard with the type of items you can purchase in the crown store, and don't stray away from actual content to the game.

Roechacca

The Sky fell . Welcome to Tamwiel Unwimmited Pwus .

Abr4hn

Nice post, and brings up a lot of good points. I am looking forward to the 1.6 patch going live.

Northern_Wolfling

@Gemseed This is totally what I think, thank you! Mostly people only speak out, when they are not satisfied and everyone has the right to do so, of course. But people who like stuff mostly remain silent and it is imported to show @ZOS that not everyone feels that way about 1.6.

Khivas_Carrick

All my yes

felinith66

Totally agree. Yes, the first time u play 1.6 u feel like Superman under a red sun, u feel human. At first, I was at a loss on how to proceed. Everything was alien. The numbers didn't look right. The champion system felt lacking. Then I started putting the points in. And I realized that I can actually, truly build the character I wanted to build. And the great thing about the champion system is the built in respec.

People just need to give it a chance. If I who's not a min maxer could find a build that works, how much easier would it be for the number crunchers to make an optimal build. The way I see it. If you're good, you'll always be good, regardless of the system.

Soulshine

@Gemseed‌

I will not bother to address every single thing in your post, but two things:

I would ask you reconsider the use of "we" from now on, let alone posting such sweeping generalizations about the experience of VR "we" had. I for one most certainly did not play it "block casting" and "kicking and screaming though it" as you describe, nor would I ever say that I did not enjoy it - who are you to say we did not? Speak for yourself alone please; if that was your experience do not make out like it was everyone's. I would not still be here if that were the case. Why on earth are you even be here if that is how you felt about it?

As far as what the CP system is about, I'd say that shortsightedness is falling squarely on your own take. There is a fundamental problem in its design which is quite eaily seen once you do the math and calculate out the rate of return on your time investment with the rate of diminishing returns built into each tier of the system. It needs revisiting big time.

Khivas_Carrick

Hate to break it to you but it's just fine for what it is and meant to do

Tandor

I totally agree with the OP.

Gemseed

Soulshine wrote: »

@Gemseed‌

I will not bother to address every single thing in your post, but two things:

I would ask you reconsider the use of "we" from now on, let alone posting such sweeping generalizations about the experience of VR "we" had. I for one most certainly did not play it "block casting" and "kicking and screaming though it" as you describe, nor would I ever say that I did not enjoy it - who are you to say we did not? Speak for yourself alone please; if that was your experience do not make out like it was everyone's. I would not still be here if that were the case. Why on earth are you even be here if that is how you felt about it?

As far as what the CP system is about, I'd say that shortsightedness is falling squarely on your own take. There is a fundamental problem in its design which is quite eaily seen once you do the math and calculate out the rate of return on your time investment with the rate of diminishing returns built into each tier of the system. It needs revisiting big time.

I stated twice in my original post that it was my personal oppinion, and I don't expect everyone to agree with it. But I do know there will be some who agree with me (as shown by fellow posters in this thread) and for those people I will state "we".

And a "if you don't like it, then why dont you just leave" response doesnt hold much weight. If you're in disagreeance, please feel free to state the reasons for which though. That's what this post is for.

Sharkano

I disagree with most of the points. For example, "VR14 has to go." LOL. Why not just leave everyone at level 1? VR14 is only level 65. They are putting all level 65's back to level 50 for no reason at all. You have no basis for such claims. And most people do not believe in the mythical "secret conspiracy" you raise. Rather, they believe in incompetence at the highest levels . . . .

Joejudas

So let me ask you a question OP....if they took away the character progression of your lower level toon....including nerfing your armor....to make the game better the higher level people....WOUKD YOU THINK THAT'S FAIR ?

Soulshine

Gemseed wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

@Gemseed‌

I will not bother to address every single thing in your post, but two things:

I would ask you reconsider the use of "we" from now on, let alone posting such sweeping generalizations about the experience of VR "we" had. I for one most certainly did not play it "block casting" and "kicking and screaming though it" as you describe, nor would I ever say that I did not enjoy it - who are you to say we did not? Speak for yourself alone please; if that was your experience do not make out like it was everyone's. I would not still be here if that were the case. Why on earth are you even be here if that is how you felt about it?

As far as what the CP system is about, I'd say that shortsightedness is falling squarely on your own take. There is a fundamental problem in its design which is quite eaily seen once you do the math and calculate out the rate of return on your time investment with the rate of diminishing returns built into each tier of the system. It needs revisiting big time.

I stated twice in my original post that it was my personal oppinion, and I don't expect everyone to agree with it. But I do know there will be some who agree with me (as shown by fellow posters in this thread) and for those people I will state "we".

And a "if you don't like it, then why dont you just leave" response doesnt hold much weight. If you're in disagreeance, please feel free to state the reasons for which though. That's what this post is for.

That is not what I stated and not what I asked you; you are simply choosing to not answer the question.

Gemseed

Joejudas wrote: »

So let me ask you a question OP....if they took away the character progression of your lower level toon....including nerfing your armor....to make the game better the higher level people....WOUKD YOU THINK THAT'S FAIR ?

Joe, once again, why must you always assume I only play low level toons?

The balances are across the board. They're not doing it to hurt the high-end players (like us), but make the experience greater for everyone overall. Yes, some builds will be hurt more than others, but it doesnt mean low level characters will suddenly become more powerful, and to be honest, I still don't quite understand where you keep getting this from.

In my opinion, and many others, the current high-end game of ESO is lacking in certain aspects, that 1.6 is looking to address. There is a slight balancing in the numbers to make room for certain systems, but that is overall much better then the alternative of leaving current systems in place.

And soulshine, can you please restate the question then. Because the only question I saw from you was " Why on earth are you even be here if that is how you felt about it?"

Gemseed

Sharkano wrote: »

I disagree with most of the points. For example, "VR14 has to go." LOL. Why not just leave everyone at level 1? VR14 is only level 65. They are putting all level 65's back to level 50 for no reason at all. You have no basis for such claims. And most people do not believe in the mythical "secret conspiracy" you raise. Rather, they believe in incompetence at the highest levels . . . .

Likening VR 14 to level 65 is not the same, in my opinion. It's the same difference as how levelling from 1-50 is not the same feel as VR1 to VR14.

The basis I have for such claims is the same as most in our shoes would have, and that is being a long term player of ESO. VR grind has never been met with much praise, and was even announced months ago to be removed with much praise.

Again I must state that just because we've grown used to something, doesnt make it right.

The balancing will be done through CP's which will be given out at a higher-than-normal rate for all characters currently in their VR's, up to a maximum of 70. As well as any gear progression you have currently made.

Just becuase we suffered through it doesnt mean everyone else should have to.

RazielSR

No offense to the OP, but it amazes me how people like the OP try and try and try to justify the wrong moves zos have done and is doing.

A lot of effort to explain and twist real wrong situations happening witg the game and trying to turn it into a good move by zos.

Incredible.

Joejudas

Stop tip toeing around the issue and trying to wordsmith this whole issue and answer the question ? Do you think it's fair to hurt the character progression of the people who put the most time into the game. Stop using political talking points like "rebalancing". Yes or no. It's ok though if this goes live like this a bunch of us will leave and everyone can have a happy completely boring 50 year character progression.

Soulshine

Gemseed wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

So let me ask you a question OP....if they took away the character progression of your lower level toon....including nerfing your armor....to make the game better the higher level people....WOUKD YOU THINK THAT'S FAIR ?

Joe, once again, why must you always assume I only play low level toons?

The balances are across the board. They're not doing it to hurt the high-end players (like us), but make the experience greater for everyone overall. Yes, some builds will be hurt more than others, but it doesnt mean low level characters will suddenly become more powerful, and to be honest, I still don't quite understand where you keep getting this from.

In my opinion, and many others, the current high-end game of ESO is lacking in certain aspects, that 1.6 is looking to address. There is a slight balancing in the numbers to make room for certain systems, but that is overall much better then the alternative of leaving current systems in place.

And soulshine, can you please restate the question then. Because the only question I saw from you was " Why on earth are you even be here if that is how you felt about it?"

More evasions. Considering your comments about VR as it was a "drudge," that you had to "drag through it kicking and screaming," that "none of us actually enjoyed it" (again all without properly using "I" statements....), it is a normal thing to wonder about.

Gemseed

Joejudas wrote: »

Stop tip toeing around the issue and trying to wordsmith this whole issue and answer the question ? Do you think it's fair to hurt the character progression of the people who put the most time into the game. Stop using political talking points like "rebalancing". Yes or no. It's ok though if this goes live like this a bunch of us will leave and everyone can have a happy completely boring 50 year character progression.

Joe I answered your question in great detail.The problem lies in what we each consider a "balance" or a "nerf". We do not agree on the matter, and therefore I can't answer the question in a way that you would find preferable.

Where you think ZOS is out to get all the high-end players, I see a balance for all characters for the better of progression in the long-term. So yes, I do find it fair.

Please don't downplay my response just because you disagree. Then again, it is the internet...

Tandor

Sharkano wrote: »

And most people do not believe in the mythical "secret conspiracy" you raise. Rather, they believe in incompetence at the highest levels . . . .

There's no evidence that "most people" believe in either. I see far more people in-game playing happily than on here complaining.

briandivisionb16_ESO

Rehashing skills, abilities and morphs doesn't = new content. It took them too long to bring in new content, like imperial city; spellcrafting - all that.
Sucks.

I'm bored. I've done every trial. Had emperorship within my grasp. And I'm not interested in relearning the game just for a simple re-hash.

The virtual sky may not be falling but its full of smoke and mirrors.

Gemseed

briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »

Rehashing skills, abilities and morphs doesn't = new content. It took them too long to bring in new content, like imperial city; spellcrafting - all that.
Sucks.

I'm bored. I've done every trial. Had emperorship within my grasp. And I'm not interested in relearning the game just for a simple re-hash.

The virtual sky may not be falling but its full of smoke and mirrors.

Now this is a valid point, to which I won't entirely disagree.

New "content" would be an ideal in any situation, as opposed to a reissue of preexisting systems.

The way I'm seeing it at this moment is that new content should be the least of concern while the underlying fundamentals lie fairly broken. Priorities will vary depending on who you ask, but in my humble opinion, don't give a broken down car a new paint job when it will cost just as much as a new car.

Hopefully with the basis of what 1.6 is looking to change, new content (whenever it arrives) will be more fun to look forward to, since it will be with a more meaningful system.

I would also guess that 1.6 took no lack of man hours to put together, judging by how much is changing.

With some big launches and subscription changes in the near future, the base of the game is more important than just the sheer quantity at this point.

Now as long as they can introduce meaningful content in the future... well... that's still to be determined,

A great point briandivision

SanderBuraas

Joejudas wrote: »

Stop tip toeing around the issue and trying to wordsmith this whole issue and answer the question ? Do you think it's fair to hurt the character progression of the people who put the most time into the game. Stop using political talking points like "rebalancing". Yes or no. It's ok though if this goes live like this a bunch of us will leave and everyone can have a happy completely boring 50 year character progression.

I've seen you write so incredibly many unnecessary posts regarding the 'nerfs' of our characters. Are you refusing yourself to see the truth, after many have explained it to you? They lowered the base stats and more of everyone, for the introduction of the champion system, where you can obtain many useful and great passives to boost your character.

Quit trying to justify what is fair or not. Some changes have to be made for the benefit of the game, and the champion system is just that.

Soulshine

And just what is the topic? Your insistence that anyone who finds the implementation of the CP system problematic is just some whiner who is saying the sky is falling? Good grief.

rawne1980b16_ESO

The only way to know if 1.6 will be a success will be to see how well it goes down when it goes live.

Joejudas

Smepic wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Stop tip toeing around the issue and trying to wordsmith this whole issue and answer the question ? Do you think it's fair to hurt the character progression of the people who put the most time into the game. Stop using political talking points like "rebalancing". Yes or no. It's ok though if this goes live like this a bunch of us will leave and everyone can have a happy completely boring 50 year character progression.

I've seen you write so incredibly many unnecessary posts regarding the 'nerfs' of our characters. Are you refusing yourself to see the truth, after many have explained it to you? They lowered the base stats and more of everyone, for the introduction of the champion system, where you can obtain many useful and great passives to boost your character.

Quit trying to justify what is fair or not. Some changes have to be made for the benefit of the game, and the champion system is just that.

to benefit who...not anyone who is vr..and how many champion points have you managed to get on the pts....cause if you said anymore than 5 you would be lying. its a joke and the system is a joke

Gemseed

Soulshine wrote: »

And just what is the topic? Your insistence that anyone who finds the implementation of the CP system problematic is just some whiner who is saying the sky is falling? Good grief.

The same could be stated for one of the countless threads by the same 3-4 people from the other side of the fence.

Again, I've stated countless times that it is my opinion, take it or leave it.

Is there only enough room in these boards for one point of view?

If you disagree, then feel free to post why and we can discuss it like adults in this thread. If we continue to disagree, then we may just have to agree to disagree.

StaticWax

Lol - People complaining about a long character progression system.

/facepalm

It's an RPG...

rawne1980b16_ESO

StaticWax wrote: »

Lol - People complaining about a long character progression system.

/facepalm

It's an RPG...

What, in the holiest of hells, does being a "role playing game" have to do with long character progression systems?

The very basis of a roleplaying game is to play a role, it has nothing to do with grinding. That's extending content in an MMO.

Single player RPG's don't tend to have months of grinding.

Your comment is completely off target. Change RPG to MMO and you're on to a winner.

Gemseed

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

StaticWax wrote: »

Lol - People complaining about a long character progression system.

/facepalm

It's an RPG...

What, in the holiest of hells, does being a "role playing game" have to do with long character progression systems?

The very basis of a roleplaying game is to play a role, it has nothing to do with grinding. That's extending content in an MMO.

Single player RPG's don't tend to have months of grinding.

Your comment is completely off target. Change RPG to MMO and you're on to a winner.

I play the role of a soldier in CoD. Thus, CoD = roleplaying game?

Sorry, I do know what you mean though :P just having some fun.