Rebalancing the wacky system that has been in place is a good thing. Taking away "progress" and not compensating enough with CP to get us back on par with where we are kind of sucks, yes. Without a good in depth explanation of what they are doing and why, it feels like they are throwing darts at a dartboard. Can't say I feel that their communication/transparency has been exemplary, especially with such a history of non documented changes and hush hush around many things as well as all the flip-flops in the adjustments that have taken place since launch to make this a better MMO and more Elder Scrollsish - all that kind of adds to the skepticism.

There are a lot of what-ifs due to the direction of the game and business, certainly and I feel is fairly justified. If they start using the new and additional grind to herd players to the cash shop, that would suck and I would just see it as another scam MMO. I grant that it is a business and they and their parent company want $$$, but what it'll come down to is how far will that go and be reflected in turning the game into a grind-fest rather than content rich.

3 things I'm particular looking for that would transform the game for me are
1) PvP getting some love. PvP is not -as- boring as grinding PvE content due to it's dynamic elements. Bugfixing, increased capacity for large scale battles, and a little more content (including justice system) would provide tons of hours of fun
2) Spellcrafting. Being able to design your class (and have it be reasonably balanced) would remove all sorts of complaints about how THEY set the skills and add a lot more to explore
3) PvE scalability. I like what they've done with scaling thus far with undaunted and wonder, if this was applied widespread, you could go wherever and it would feel a lot more like a TES game. Scaling should be more of the majority with certain quests or special areas/dungeons being static rather than vice versa.

TLDR::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
This game is at a pivotal turning point in it's development. Whether they head down the direction of making a quality game or treat it like a cash cow and how that reflects in the game is still a little to early to tell, despite lots of warning flags coming up.
END TLDR:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Even though the game is "released" and it's "normal" for "all" MMOs to experience upheavals and huge problems in the beginning, we've been paying to play an extended testing and adjustment phase, call it extended beta, delta whatever. Games are now big multi-million dollar business with lots of competition, and ROI hungry investors. As a result the development cycle has become this way - a shaky balance of making $ and releasing a product before it's polished and trying to get customers "on the hook" enough to support it both financially and in spirit during the pressure cooker time at and after "release".

It's a wierd norm now, but we have to expect it, hope that the product irons out, that the developer gel and make a good team, and that the business elements make wise long term decisions for the product. But as consumers it's up to us to be aware of this ballpark we're playing in and as individuals decide if we are willing to cough up "support" money as they go through this, and at the same time treat it like a beta where the game can undergo major changes.

But what sucks about this new norm is that it has this air of scam or being taken for money for an unfinished product and it puts some people on edge from the get go. This sets the stage for trust issues and wary expectations and wary and watchful eyes.

I'll give props to ZoS though, I'm sure they see this and with hedging so much in console release and just the way they do PR and put more effort into things and media that would attract new players, they want the game to survive and thrive but probably are not looking at us the veteran players as being the main sugar daddy. I'm sure they are thankful we've supported them and paid them but we are somewhat expendable in the "bigger" picture as they shift towards that but they still of course want to keep us hence the incentives for continuing sub with backdated crowns (good move). Employees are also expendable as the business shifts, layed off workers are common after release and aren't needed any more. This is all just good business and we're just statistics and numbers ultimately that translates to money.

It's up to each one of us to make a decision where we accept or don't accept our part in the business of it all, where we throw our numerical support or withdraw it, where we have faith or toss in the towel.

The new(er) crowdsource funded game business model is quite interesting. More transparancy and communication to the gamers because the gamers are the financial backers. Worth checking out.

I still have an inkling of hope for this title though, hoping that the dev team has a genuine interest in making a kickass ES game as opposed to making money or resume building. I hope that when/if the financial pressure derived decisions ease up we'll see more of the game shine from hopefully eager devs (if they aren't burnt out by that time). But it's shaky to say the least as changes drive away customers and money and that makes the investors nervous which in turns puts more pressure on the product to make money which could show up in ways that further drive off customers like cash store expansion.

Unfortunately it's hard to tell when the financial pressure will let up. Not only do investors want $ from this title for investing in it but they might also need it for a new movie or whatever else they want to move their money into OR be losing money in other ventures which adds pressure. And these are factors outside this game entirely that any of us supporters can't control.

OK enough with the novel.

tunepunk wrote: »

I find it really funny that most that complain are complaining that they can't solo 'X' number of enemies anymore. Maybe it was because they were quite crappy players, charging in and spamming their favorite AOE skill.

I find it quite boring when some places are too easy, so some of the time i play group content or public dungeons and bosses for the challenge, and to improve, even if i die a lot. This way I learned a lot about what some skills do and which morphs helps me survive instead of increasing my area DPS.

I like the challenge. I like that you have to use a little bit brains, tactics, skill and nimble fingers, instead of spamming your favorite AOE skill.

Taking on 3 enemies or more the same level as you SHOULD be HARD. People should consider using tactics friends and CC skills rather than spamming their favorite skill. I really hope they nerf more builds that still can do this easily.

It shouldn't be easy... Maybe doable with a bit of skill and tactics, but should still be hard.

There was a time when content was a challenge, you know. They dumbed it down after many complains. Leveling my templar was a tough job when there was no craglorn available. Mobs hit really hard, as a templar you could not solo most of the world bosses or even groups of mobs.

DSA hardmode was really hard at first, until they "accidentally patched" it.

So please don´t get the misbelief this is done to modifiy content with the intentions you insinuate.

i like that my VR11 NB now can du sum AOE to take down 4+ mob packs so I cant wait for update 6 to hit live

Joejudas wrote: »

Also OP they haven't taken away vet ranks yet....picture this scenario. You grind exp for months and get back up to par....then they take away vet ranks and knock you down again. Everyone should be talking about that

Bingo!

Joejudas wrote: »

Gemseed wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

which loads of people...the ones who left because they didnt like the game before and are coming into a game that free for them now that has all the same problems and added more problems with a new leveling system that is a bigger forced grind than the ones we have now. I think this is called counting your chickens before they hatch.....good buisness model though right

The same could be said to your doomsday prophecy of "vets leaving in bunches"

the game has not done well, and if we stay the course, it won't magically get better. We need drastic changes from the feeble systems that got us into this mess.

and in your mind this means making all the longest subbed people suffer so that b2p people can come back and play the same game they left with a new paint job and a system thats much worse for grinding then it is right now. and yes, people are actually leaving the game, but i know thats not something you would ever believe. One of the best pvp players and one of the best pve players i know left the game today. Log into great pve guild and ask around in the ts about how they feel about the changes...they will tell you they are going to play archage.

I have been subbed since pre-launch and I do not feel I am "suffering" in any way from this patch, so keep that elitist generalization to yourself.

Also, people have been leaving the game since it launched. One of the biggest complaints we saw early in ESO's life was people fed up with VR levelling and leaving due to it. If anything 1.6 has brought back numerous players, excited for changes.

Do you honestly think people just started leaving with 1.6? Do you honestly believe the game was doing well before it?

Joejudas wrote: »

There are end game players leaving this game in bunches and this hasnt even hit the live server yet.....zos you please fix this and stop hurting the end game folks

The likely reality is that their numbers are so small their departure, regrettable as it may be to some, will hardly cause a ripple on ZOS revenue stream.

Joejudas wrote: »

If they set cp gains at somewhere between 100k-200k i wouldnt be on here arguing. i wouldnt be happy about all the losses...but it would be way more manageable

Isn't that what you should be posting and EMPHASIZING instead of 9 pages of forum rant without specific target or proposition?

Razzak wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

There are end game players leaving this game in bunches and this hasnt even hit the live server yet.....zos you please fix this and stop hurting the end game folks

The likely reality is that their numbers are so small their departure, regrettable as it may be to some, will hardly cause a ripple on ZOS revenue stream.

That's probably true, but the game that focuses only on it's revenue stream and disregards how it's players feel, is probably not going to become player oriented any time soon. It's also probably true those that are leaving now are not a majority, but what do you think will happen with those that will buy ESO, when they come to the same point us those that are leaving now? They will probably feel the same resentment when they realize their progress, time and effort put into the game, is less valuable then what new player brings by simply buying a box.

I wouldn't disagree with your point about focus, all else being equal being oblivious to the concerns and factually-based complaints isn't a good business model.

However, the reality is that ZOS painted themselves into a huge corner when they found their core 'vision' of VR was convincingly rejected by [presumably] large numbers of players; those who were happy with the more 'challenging' content carried on and are now the VR14s who are complaining, in some cases vociferously and in some cases (I name no one but it's obvious who one is) without providing any evidence to back up their assertions.

Now, thing is, ZOS need a way out of their corner because as it patently obvious with the events of recent weeks, the numbers who like 1990s group-or-die content (which is what Craglorn brings to this game) are small, perhaps trivially small in the overall scheme of things, so ZOS have I guess decided they need to weather the storm of the VR14's ire 'for the greater good': I totally agree with ZOS that if they give too many CPs to the current small number of VR14s then the game will be irretrievably degenerate into two camps, those who had VR14s when CP came in and those the don't, because those that don't would never catch up.

It's a sad fact the the only alternative to this scenario means ZOS has to break faith with those who believed the "we'll track your progress line" ZOS repeatedly trumpeted when they announced the Champion system.

They're between a rock and a hard place completely of their own making, they did it by a mixture of bad design decisions, terrible communication with players and doing 180 U-turns and presenting them as fait accomplis rather than turning to the players to explain why they felt they would have to break faith and not do what they repeatedly said they would.

ZOS number one crime is this almost total lack of dialog with the players, which in turn amplifies the damage of broken promises.

TL;DR - I agree with those VR14s who see their progress being ripped from them (well, I agree with those that provide evidence, unlike some who don't) but if ZOS don't bite the bullet on this the 'greater good' will be sacrificed, and in that scenario the game is doomed anyway.

Man, all this discussion and discontent about nerfs. . . Really wish they had like a test server or something to do this stuff on. Then maybe they could make adjustments before it goes live and ruins everyone's fun. . .