On Overall 1.6 Nerf Issue, It's Time To Stand Up And Say "Enough Is Enough"

Joejudas

jaibierwb17_ESO wrote: »

I have a VR14 stamina NB in gold crafted gear and I feel more powerful in 1.6.
I tested on a wasp swarm in upper craglorn - on live I'd usually need my veil up to take down a swarm, on PTS it was much easier (after CPs allocated) - I took them down easily without using my ult.
This was even with my crit dropping from ~70% on live to 49% on PTS.

You can make up for this by increasing your weapon or spell damage, since these will no longer be softcapped. If you are so concerned about not being perfect when 1.6 goes live, get on the PTS now, test some new abilities and work out a better build for your character.

its interesting to feel stronger in 1.6. i have tested my build and its way worse...so ill have to putthe work in again unfortunately that i already did over the last 10 months. that i can get over...i cant get over the fact it takes 4 or 5 hours to get a cp. that need tweaking

kijima

No, you do not need to level up your toon any more than you currently have to be as strong as you are you now, what you do need to do is test the new environment changes to your toon with the CP system, to see what works and what doesn't.

@Joejudas‌ with all your hate posts on the forum about the new system, have you actually spent more than 1 hour going through it? Honestly, have you sat down and made a few trials toons and tested them, scraped them, made new ones etc. I say that, because I have and I'l be honest, I found the new system confusing at first, it's complex and very different to how things are on live, plus I'm old enough not to like change. Change = Bad :

BUT once you start working out what points to invest in for the buffs you are chasing, once you get your head around the diminishing returns factor, then it's good times ahead. Although a tool, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, yet I can clearly see my toons being better in 1.6 than live right now. I can see dodge stamina builds having serious fun with 1.6 and sorcs will be bolt escaping till the cows come home, 2 handers will have some cool builds too, should do spaz damage. It's a very diverse system, and I've heard of outrageous numbers being spat out by the 'good' players, the ones that aren't having an issue adapting to the new system.

Honestly, I'm not seeing what the fuss is about, the good players are on the PTS testing and getting good now. Good players will always be good.

The only person nerfing you, is you. It's not ZOS, it's not the CP system, it's you. Hard pill to swallow is hard.

I hope I'm wrong, and you jump onto the PTS and spend some time there, speak to guildies that are good, strong and well respected PvP'ers and ask them questions, you'll be supirzed what you'll find if you let yourself. Plenty of builds out there in 1.6 right now that are OP as hell and will get nerfed quickly I'm sure. Why not make it your job to find out how those OP builds are achieved. Beats forum grinding anyday.

Joejudas

kijima wrote: »

No, you do not need to level up your toon any more than you currently have to be as strong as you are you now, what you do need to do is test the new environment changes to your toon with the CP system, to see what works and what doesn't.

@Joejudas‌ with all your hate posts on the forum about the new system, have you actually spent more than 1 hour going through it? Honestly, have you sat down and made a few trials toons and tested them, scraped them, made new ones etc. I say that, because I have and I'l be honest, I found the new system confusing at first, it's complex and very different to how things are on live, plus I'm old enough not to like change. Change = Bad :

BUT once you start working out what points to invest in for the buffs you are chasing, once you get your head around the diminishing returns factor, then it's good times ahead. Although a tool, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, yet I can clearly see my toons being better in 1.6 than live right now. I can see dodge stamina builds having serious fun with 1.6 and sorcs will be bolt escaping till the cows come home, 2 handers will have some cool builds too, should do spaz damage. It's a very diverse system, and I've heard of outrageous numbers being spat out by the 'good' players, the ones that aren't having an issue adapting to the new system.

Honestly, I'm not seeing what the fuss is about, the good players are on the PTS testing and getting good now. Good players will always be good.

The only person nerfing you, is you. It's not ZOS, it's not the CP system, it's you. Hard pill to swallow is hard.

I hope I'm wrong, and you jump onto the PTS and spend some time there, speak to guildies that are good, strong and well respected PvP'ers and ask them questions, you'll be supirzed what you'll find if you let yourself. Plenty of builds out there in 1.6 right now that are OP as hell and will get nerfed quickly I'm sure. Why not make it your job to find out how those OP builds are achieved. Beats forum grinding anyday.

Because I already detailed all the character stat nerfs and armor nerfs that require to me grind extra cp to be as powerful as I am right now. Yeah sure you can say.....hey my temp who did bad dps before does more dps now...but thats not the same on the live server. So no I can't do the same content on the PTS server without grinding cp. I don't know a single person who can run Trials on the pts or vet dungeons on the PTS with the same build they have now on the live server. It's going to require then to grind cp points. We are having progression taken away and being expected to grind mobs to get back to the same power level to be able to run the same content again. That's a problem

kijima

Didn't you say earlier that you haven't actually been on the PTS yet?

Joejudas wrote: »

im not logging into the pts you can do that yourself. and you could always provide proof to refute me

^ If that's the case, you have no valid argument to make. None!

Sensesfail13

They had a test server all along... it was called Elder Scrolls Online... Didnt help them fix the game much at all. Glad that everybody was so angry about the upcoming reflect nerf, its much worse than we imagined beforehand.

Not just reflect though, what is up with that RIDICULOUS execute you are giving dragonknights??? Every class has a ranged execute and we have some BS activated ability that uses heavy attacks??? F OFF Zeni.
Screwing the pooch on this update its really killing my will to play. May have all these naysayers posting on the thread attacking @Joejudas but he is absolutely correct in his arguments and Ive already had large portions of my endgame pvp/pve guild unsubscribe because of the bs they saw on PTS.

Tamriel Unlimited will most likely go the way of the wooly mammoth if they go about it the way they did with the BETA in ESO, Didnt fix a gd thing and launched a bs scratch version causing hordes of players to immediately unsub from the get go. Probably worse though because they are now alienating their faithful subscribers on the hopes of bringing in hordes of FTP trolls.

Joejudas

kijima wrote: »

Didn't you say earlier that you haven't actually been on the PTS yet?

Joejudas wrote: »

im not logging into the pts you can do that yourself. and you could always provide proof to refute me

^ If that's the case, you have no valid argument to make. None!

No you don't pay attention. I have provided everyone with pictures of stat nerfs and armor nerfs from extensive testing I have done on the PTS. I'm saying I'm not going to log into the PTS and report back personally to anyone so I can appease them somehow, especially when it's some who disagrees with me regardless of what I'm saying.

Joejudas

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

They had a test server all along... it was called Elder Scrolls Online... Didnt help them fix the game much at all. Glad that everybody was so angry about the upcoming reflect nerf, its much worse than we imagined beforehand.

Not just reflect though, what is up with that RIDICULOUS execute you are giving dragonknights??? Every class has a ranged execute and we have some BS activated ability that uses heavy attacks??? F OFF Zeni.
Screwing the pooch on this update its really killing my will to play. May have all these naysayers posting on the thread attacking @Joejudas but he is absolutely correct in his arguments and Ive already had large portions of my endgame pvp/pve guild unsubscribe because of the bs they saw on PTS.

Tamriel Unlimited will most likely go the way of the wooly mammoth if they go about it the way they did with the BETA in ESO, Didnt fix a gd thing and launched a bs scratch version causing hordes of players to immediately unsub from the get go. Probably worse though because they are now alienating their faithful subscribers on the hopes of bringing in hordes of FTP trolls.

I'm not always the best at getting my point across without sounding angry, and I expected people to disagree with me. I did not expect this update to divide the community the way it has. I'm really concerned that if they don't lower the amount of exp needed to get a cp and do something to fix the end game raid armor nerf....It's going to cause a real commotion when this hits live.

kijima

Extensive testing? Really...




I've paid attention to your posts, I've seen the screen shots. Yet I'm able with my live toon transferred to PTS, deal the same damage, if not more, with the very same gear I've been using for the past two months. Weird...

Maybe those screen shots you posted don't tell all the story.

Joejudas

Good for you then. That's awesome you can complete the same content. A whole ton of us can't and ZOS needs to adress it based on the feedback we placed on the PTS. Making us grind cp isn't the answer.

kijima

A good mechanic never blames his tools.

Joejudas

anyways. Not derailing the thread anymore. 1.6 is a blanket nerf that hurts high level PvE folks and the way I pecerive it is we are being written off in favor of the b2p folks coming back. Sorry if that isn't what you wanted to hear....but it's how I see it.

Berinima

Hm, @Joejudas‌... By any chance... Did you forget to allocate points to the champion system? I mean on the PTS I have something like 21k health, 24k magicka and 12k stamina. Your stats seem really off and way too low.

kijima

1.5 = Can solo a pack Welwas in Craglorn easily
1.6 = Can solo a pack Welwas in Craglorn easily

I'm just not seeing the nerf, after I tweaked my toon with the new CP system.

I guess I'm sorry?...that you are not able to PvE the same as before...

Joejudas

I didn't put points into the cp system I wanted a clean comparison as possible. I wanted to compared the live build directly to the PTS one. Obviously puttting points into the passives will improve things. Different people use different passives though. So to get the cleanest comparison of how it translates on a base level...no passives were used.

Tankqull

kijima wrote: »

1.5 = Can solo a pack Welwas in Craglorn easily
1.6 = Can solo a pack Welwas in Craglorn easily

I'm just not seeing the nerf, after I tweaked my toon with the new CP system.

I guess I'm sorry?...that you are not able to PvE the same as before...

your highlighted point actually is the problem do the same with a vet1 char on live and on the PTS(without CP usage) and you are going to struggle on the PTS.

Berinima

Joejudas wrote: »

I didn't put points into the cp system I wanted a clean comparison as possible. I wanted to compared the live build directly to the PTS one. Obviously puttting points into the passives will improve things. Different people use different passives though. So to get the cleanest comparison of how it translates on a base level...no passives were used.

Ehm well... You realize that you don't only get the passives but you ALSO increase your stats with it no matter which passives you chose? You NEED to put points in there to actually be able to compare live and PTS...

I mean, there is no clean comparison because you can't compare the two without using your CPs.

Ysne58

So you are talking about apples while everyone else is talking about oranges? the testing is supposed to be while using cp points.

Berinima

Ysne58 wrote: »

So you are talking about apples while everyone else is talking about oranges? the testing is supposed to be while using cp points.

Apparently... ^^

Joejudas

No it's not. Because the stats were nerfed if I need to use cp to get them back to normal. This just proves the nerf everyone said didn't happen actually did happen

Berinima

Well, ehm no, OMG... How do I explain this...

Just put your points anywhere you like. You have 70 of them. You are missing weapon crit from live? Great, get yourself some weapon crit. You need more stamina reg? Great, get that.

But ALSO (and this might be the surprising part for you) all your attributes like health, stamina and magicka will go up after doing so. So will your skill damage and your healing etc.

kijima

Tankqull wrote: »

your highlighted point actually is the problem do the same with a vet1 char on live and on the PTS(without CP usage) and you are going to struggle on the PTS.

I get what your saying Tankqull, and I'll be honest, I've not compared a VR1 to VR1 with live and PTS, don't have a VR1 right now yet even if I did, I'll be using that VR1 to gain CP to give to my main.

I've got a VR14 that I've invested in, but I take your point on board, and I'm sure your right with what you are saying. It would be interesting to see how many CP's are needed in PTS with a VR1 to equate to a VR1 on live don't you think?

I'm thinking it's more than 5 myself.

Joejudas wrote: »

I didn't put points into the cp system I wanted a clean comparison as possible. I wanted to compared the live build directly to the PTS one. Obviously puttting points into the passives will improve things. Different people use different passives though. So to get the cleanest comparison of how it translates on a base level...no passives were used.

I agree with what you are saying, I struggled too without points while just mucking around, yet when I worked out I was weak, I spent my points. It's the points put into your toon that make all the difference.

I, just like you have a VR14 with the max CP given to use, and I'm going to use all of those points when it goes live. Why wouldn't I test that now exactly?

Pretty sure I said that was the case, that I spent points and that It's spending the points wisely because of diminishing returns that will make builds interesting, weaker or stronger, yet this is the first time I've actually read anywhere that you didn't invest points.

No wonder you are feeling like you've been left in the cold...

Isn't 70 CP invested into your toon on PTS, roughly equal to a VR14 in the old system anyway or at least what ZOS thinks? (Not sure they are right on the number btw) Wasn't that the trade off?

Maybe I'm dead wrong, but that's what I read between the lines after ESO live, and the reddit posts and general announcements.

Joejudas

I'm aware of that....but taking away my stats and making me grind mobs for cp to get the back to normal so I can do the same content again isn't diveristy or rebalancing....its serving as a distraction and it's insulting.

Berinima

Well, this is a totally different issue my friend. But you are posting screenshots that your stats were nerfed badly and that you can't solo content anymore. Your stats will be (almost) back to normal as soon as you put the friggin' points in the friggin' system. ^^

...and you can then solo content again. Problem solved?

Joejudas

And no 70 doesn't make you equivalent. You would need around 200.

Berinima

Well, um, no, for crying out loud... Could you at least *try* and put the damn points in there and see how it plays out?

Alphashado

Joejudas wrote: »

I'm aware of that....but taking away my stats and making me grind mobs for cp to get the back to normal so I can do the same content again isn't diveristy or rebalancing....its serving as a distraction and it's insulting.

Sigh. You don't have to grind anything to get back to where you were. You just have to invest the Champion points man... That is the entire point of the conversion...

If you refuse to invest the champion points, then you are nerfing yourself, and you only have yourself to blame because they are just sitting there waiting for you to assign them.

Wow. All these "omg I'm nerfed" posts and here the entire time you haven't even assigned your CP

Thats.. amazing.

Berinima

This is just... adorable! ^^

Joejudas

I have assigned my cp and it's not the same. and if I take my guy right now....and play him on the PTS he isn't as strong. Adding cp helps...but he isn't nearly as strong...and his armor is nerfed. 70 cp isn't enough and you know it. So yes we are being forced to grind cp.

Berinima

You're a DK so I am assuming you are wearing light armor? That one was nerfed. Has nothing to do with the champion system however. This was actually rebalancing. The health pool is lower. This was also rebalancing. You maybe need a damage shield or an armor glyph or something. Also people like to put their attribute points somewhere else now, going full magicka for example. Read some guides. Go to YouTube and check out some videos from Deltia for example. He'll explain what to do. It'll be alright. ^^

Ysne58

@Joejudas‌ is correct about one thing, it will take more than 70 points to get back to where you were in 1.5. I think the point has been made by now though so he should move on.