kijima wrote: »

There are people who play this game that are purely crafters. They are the 'gatherers' of the hunter gatherer pack.

Have you thought about how this would impact them, looking from their perspective instead of just your own?

I was on TS last night having a chat to some guildies, and one of them right now who is a crafter is rightly pissed about the incoming nerfs on hirelings. Now, it doesn't effect me directly (I'm sure it will indirectly when the cost of stuff goes up due to rarity) but it has frustrated the hell out of him.

Again...this is "asking" as a result of the drastic changes in 1.6 to mounts, etc. keep in mind this in no way limits, hurts or takes away from anything they, you or I have done to invest in research.

It's no change to crafting or skills. It's purely giving the account credit for unlocking something vs just one character.

Iluvrien wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's no change to crafting or skills. It's purely giving the account credit for unlocking something vs just one character.

What about if, under your system:

1) A player has 8 characters in total.
2) That player sets each character to research a different trait on an item.
3) Each of these traits are finished in a few hours.
4) The account is credited in each case.

You end up, with the initial investment of a few hours with every character on that account being able to craft using all 8 traits and the sets associated with having 8 traits unlocked... in a matter of hours, as opposed to someone who is doing it with 1 character and has to wait months. Fair?

If you then say, "well what about the research skill limits"? Those are character specific. Whether a character can have 1,2 or 3 traits researching simultaneously is down to their own distribution of skillpoints and so is not something that could be handled account wide... unless you are also suggesting the research skill limits should be account wide. What you will see then is the call for more and more skill lines to become account wide.

Or do you have a suggestion that would allow for the application of your system without penalizing the single-character players or requiring certain crafting skills to become account-wide?

Because, to me, at the moment this seems like an insurmountable problem standing in the path of any such change.

Please go back and read my post. Follow my comments...in response to the mount and other changes in 1.6 that apply account benefits, I'm asking ZOD why not research.

Ourorboros wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No one reads...ppl just draw conclusions or assumptions and argue.

Thanks to those who did read and for your opinions

So far, you have said nothing that either explains why we are misinterpreting you, or respond to valid criticisms of your proposal. What you propose is NOT like the new mount systems, as several have explained, and you have not explained how it would not let new characters shortcut research times.

It's exactly like the mount changes. Player 1 buys a mount and all player get it. Player 1 has 2 or 3 different mounts with different riding skills. After 1.6 all chars on one account get all mounts. Also player 1 gets the highest riding skills from all their mounts individually trained mounts skills (the top) per character.

So I'm giving 1 mount speed, another stamina and a third the last skill. After 1.6 my individual chat is maxed. I have the CE mount, DLC mount and in-game mount. That is basically what ppl are saying would be wrong if it were research. Why is one OK but another not OK?

That is why Im asking why not research too. The cost of each mount to me equates to finding an items and researching it + x amounts of days to complete research.

If Player 1 researches 8 or 9 in BS traits. Then player 2 researches 8 or 9 in clothing the mount changes would give both the traits minus any crafting skills which would be the same as each player adding skills to each mount.

The mount skill reward and research to me is a lot of invested time and/or gold. So I'm asking why mounts and not also research.

Ourorboros wrote: »

It's exactly like the mount changes. Player 1 buys a mount and all player get it. Player 1 has 2 or 3 different mounts with different riding skills. After 1.6 all chars on one account get all mounts. Also player 1 gets the highest riding skills from all their mounts.

This is not how the new mount system works. Have you played on PTS? As was posted earlier, the new mount system give players access to different types of mounts, but each character has to learn skills on their own, not account wide. So character one has Imperial and Tan mounts, knows 50 capacity and speed. Character two has black horse and guar, know 50 stamina on black horse. In 1.6, C1 now has all four mounts, but still only knows 50 capacity & speed. C2 has all four mounts, but only knows 50 stamina. C1 & C2 have to train for missing attributes.

Did you read my last comment. And yes I'm on PTS so this is exactly why I'm asking why not research.

Please see my comments above as you just commented my explanation in diff words.


*The mount to me is the equivalent of a research. Why is one OK but not the other.
Not mount skills and not crafting skills. The skills are chat based...the skills is in no way a part of my post.

Everyone at my work can take out a company vehicle to perform a job on site, no special requirements or skills are required, apart from having a valid drivers licence, obeying road laws etc. (don't post or drive angry)

However, not everyone at my workplace has the same skill set, we have people that work in marketing (we call them carpet strollers) then we have the tech's in the workshop that are brilliant with a spanner. I wouldn't want the techs doing the marketing, and I sure as hell wouldn't want the marketing and sales guys doing the tech. Each of these employee's has an individual skill set, some better than others, and it's unrealistic to think that just because they work for the same company they will know all the same things.

Just treat the horse as a modern tamrielesque car that can be shared in the work car pool, in ESO you have a horse pool (not to be confused with horse poo) to share with your character pool.

This is my only piece of advice or any form of logic that might up-ease you, as It's been a resounding NO from everyone so far and you still haven't come to accept that the majority do not want what you've suggested.

kijima wrote: »

Everyone at my work can take out a company vehicle to perform a job on site, no special requirements or skills are required, apart from having a valid drivers licence, obeying road laws etc. (don't post or drive angry)

However, not everyone at my workplace has the same skill set, we have people that work in marketing (we call them carpet strollers) then we have the tech's in the workshop that are brilliant with a spanner. I wouldn't want the techs doing the marketing, and I sure as hell wouldn't want the marketing and sales guys doing the tech. Each of these employee's has an individual skill set, some better than others, and it's unrealistic to think that just because they work for the same company they will know all the same things.

Just treat the horse as a modern tamrielesque car that can be shared in the work car pool, in ESO you have a horse pool (not to be confused with horse poo) to share with your character pool.

This is my only piece of advice or any form of logic that might up-ease you, as It's been a resounding NO from everyone so far and you still haven't come to accept that the majority do not want what you've suggested.

This is what I'm saying kind of. I agree about skill but this post isn't about skills.
Everyone can drive the cars / mounts. Why can they know of the other job functions minus the skills to be effective.

In this example I'm asking why is it OK to let everyone have copies of the car keys but not allow everyone to know about the other jobs?

No thanks

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Sorry but I find your proposal not on par with the way the mount system works on PTS atm either. You cannot get around having to "research" a given skill set for each mount, on each character. All you get is the horse, not what each character has invested in that horse account wide.

Researching traits of a craft is no different: it is tied to the character doing the craft not the account that character sits on. To change that requirement would indeed be asking to change the crafting system as far as I can see, which is certainly anyone's perrogative to ask for - I just don't see it as needed.

Why would crafting need to change? Anyone can research...skill is not necessary

It would appear your understanding of crafting is vastly different from mine then. As is, I do not see it needed for all the reasons already listed above by everyone.

Like I said, there's no need for account wide research.

However, it is absolutely absurd that researching a single trait can take literal months of real-time (and what's even more absurd is that you cannot cancel in-progress research combined with that kind of time investment).

The -only- reason that research takes as long as it does is because the game was planning on staying subscription based. Your research pauses if your subscription ends (Mine did when I stopped playing a few months back for a brief period of time), so you're forced to keep an active subscription in order to keep your research going.

I cant recall the exact time off the top of my head, but currently to get 6 traits on a single item slot requires somewhere around 10 days of real time, even with investment in reduced research times. You can research a maximum of 3 traits at a time on 3 seperate item slots. That means for a light or medium armored character you're going to invest 30 days (that's one full month, minimum) into research just to make a 6 trait set.

The increase in time required is multiplicative, so going for 7 traits takes an extra 20~ days, or 8/9 traits another two to three months.

These values need to be more than halved, especially now that we're just bringing in new players with the b2p change. If we leave research times like this, it's going to be 6+ months down the road before new players are able to craft 8 or 9 trait sets (though they'll still probably be crap compared to 6 trait sets even that much in the future), and by then I'm sure we'll see 10, 11, or 12 trait sets that are going to take years to research for.


Crafting is supposed to be involved and interesting, not a timesink that you log on once every few months for.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Like I said, there's no need for account wide research.

However, it is absolutely absurd that researching a single trait can take literal months of real-time (and what's even more absurd is that you cannot cancel in-progress research combined with that kind of time investment).

The -only- reason that research takes as long as it does is because the game was planning on staying subscription based. Your research pauses if your subscription ends (Mine did when I stopped playing a few months back for a brief period of time), so you're forced to keep an active subscription in order to keep your research going.

I cant recall the exact time off the top of my head, but currently to get 6 traits on a single item slot requires somewhere around 10 days of real time, even with investment in reduced research times. You can research a maximum of 3 traits at a time on 3 seperate item slots. That means for a light or medium armored character you're going to invest 30 days (that's one full month, minimum) into research just to make a 6 trait set.

The increase in time required is multiplicative, so going for 7 traits takes an extra 20~ days, or 8/9 traits another two to three months.

These values need to be more than halved, especially now that we're just bringing in new players with the b2p change. If we leave research times like this, it's going to be 6+ months down the road before new players are able to craft 8 or 9 trait sets (though they'll still probably be crap compared to 6 trait sets even that much in the future), and by then I'm sure we'll see 10, 11, or 12 trait sets that are going to take years to research for.


Crafting is supposed to be involved and interesting, not a timesink that you log on once every few months for.

Makes sense

This will be in the crown shop sooner or later I guess.

Iago wrote: »

No no no........ Keep it the way it is, after all if I go to college to become a doctor my brothers and sisters do not automatically gain all of said knowledge.

It isn't a suggestion for your brother or sister getting that research, it is still you playing that alt.. I pay for my cable and my internet on one bill, by your reasoning perhaps I should get a different account for each of my alts.

When I think about it I don't really care either way. I can hop on my crafter any time I want to make the gear I want. If it were to become account wide that's cool too.

Slurg wrote: »

As someone posted earlier, the account wide mount sharing system is purely cosmetic. Research is not cosmetic.

You may have better luck with the mount comparison if you were to argue that motifs learned on one character should be account wide, since that is purely cosmetic like the different mounts.

Personally I like that my different characters have different skills. If all my characters could all do the exact same things what would be the point of having more than one?

we are not talking about any changes to any skills specific to a character.
The research provides access to a trait...the mount provides access to a skin, CP provides all characters will efforts produced by one character.

This in no way changes how people craft, or how they play. It would only align research in the ways that mount skins and CP apply to an account.

I'm not sure why this is taken in any other manner.

It's just not a very well thought out suggestion.

The arguments presented in the OP are "CP take time, just like research" and "mounts etc. are account-wide. Why not research?". Those aren't particularly inspiring arguments.

Just to play devil's advocate... If you had mentioned that people with a master crafter can just craft all the stuff for their alts anyway, and this suggestion would just streamline it, then I'd see some kind of point in that.
But you're instead saying stuff that takes time to earn should be account-wide, because reasons. Your argument can be extended to just about anything in the game, so of course people won't like it.