@ZOS - Please make crafting research account wide

Bulldog1205

I don't understand why it would require a revamping. Why can't you just see the exact same things you do now, but it's linked to an account, not a character. Shouldn't be a massive overhaul. You should still have to relevel the actual skill and spend skill points, but I don't see why the research needs to be redone. Who would redo that? Not worth the time for the simple convenience of not having to log in and out multiple times. Discovery isn't nearly as tedious, but I would say the same should apply to them, yes.

And again, I don't think this should be used to speed up research timers whatsoever. And if you are arguing that they should spend time improving other things then I can agree with that. But I don't see how this wouldn't be a positive change, even if the overall impact is small.

Iluvrien

@Bulldog1205‌

At the moment the completion of researching an item awards inspiration. Who would you award that to if research is account-wide?

If one character puts skillpoints into the crafting passives that allow multiple research slots/crafting timer reduction then would all characters on the whole account gain the extra slots and time reduction? Even without spending any points themselves?

It is these kind of questions that suggest this would require a far larger overhaul than just "credit the account for the research one character completes".

Bulldog1205

Those aren't difficult questions. You give it to the character that found the item and did the research. And you calculate the timer based on the character doing the research. Not that hard.

phtony06b14_ESO

SoulScream wrote: »

I am not going to research everything all over again on an alt I don't play all that often. I support account wide research because it causes me to just have to switch back and forth to make something.

This.

Iluvrien

Bulldog1205 wrote: »

Those aren't difficult questions. You give it to the character that found the item and did the research. And you calculate the timer based on the character doing the research. Not that hard.

I agree with the first part, except that it then means that this aspect of the research isn't account-wide.

The second one is more problematic. If a current player had two characters, one is a crafter and has maxed out that particular passive. As such they get 3 slots, the 25% research time reduction and the research time cap of 30 days. The other character has no points spent in the passive and so has 1 slot and no reductions...

...yet the second character receives the credit for the research of the first?

Not so sure that would be fair as what you would get almost instantly was one or more researching bots, low level characters concentrating purely on levelling one or more crafts and then never touched again so as to provide the benefits of all of the crafting passives to the whole account through research.

Ourorboros

Can't believe this thread is at 5 pages and still going. :'(

wraith808

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Do you understand that I'm not asking if anyone wants this added. I'm asking why CP and Mounts but not research.

Many are responding: No I don't want this added. And then go on the explain why and add in what if examples..

That's not the question, at all so many times I quote/comment to go back and re-read the posts and comments.

It's you that are not reading. Go back to my post. I answer this exact question. In fact, I'll quote it for you.

wraith808 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No one reads...ppl just draw conclusions or assumptions and argue.

Thanks to those who did read and for your opinions

Just because people disagree doesn't mean that they didn't read... and just for the record, I'm against it also. You have to allocate skill points separately because you're learning a skill. Learning the traits is the same in my opinion. There was a concrete reason that the riding skill was learned- it was a concession to a cosmetic system. There is no reason to do this same thing for traits- either cosmetic, nor lore based.

Leave it as is.

Emphasis mine. So your next reason for keeping this going?

Drasn

1. New traits would take too long to learn.
example: when nirnhoned was first introduced imagine if all of your research
was account wide. It would have taken 30 days for the first pieces of crafted
nirnhoned to begin showing up on the market as everyone would have had to
wait the full 30 days to research each piece rather than just rolling an alt and
having those pieces available in a matter of hours.

2. It is a learned skill that is associated with each individual character and as
such should not be account wide. You character is taking the time to research
this particular trait so that they can know how to make it. Your other
characters are not involved in the process.

3. The crafting system would have to be re-balanced if this was introduced. If
not, a person could be researching 24 traits per station at any given time.

NewBlacksmurf

wraith808 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Do you understand that I'm not asking if anyone wants this added. I'm asking why CP and Mounts but not research.

Many are responding: No I don't want this added. And then go on the explain why and add in what if examples..

That's not the question, at all so many times I quote/comment to go back and re-read the posts and comments.

It's you that are not reading. Go back to my post. I answer this exact question. In fact, I'll quote it for you.

wraith808 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No one reads...ppl just draw conclusions or assumptions and argue.

Thanks to those who did read and for your opinions

Just because people disagree doesn't mean that they didn't read... and just for the record, I'm against it also. You have to allocate skill points separately because you're learning a skill. Learning the traits is the same in my opinion. There was a concrete reason that the riding skill was learned- it was a concession to a cosmetic system. There is no reason to do this same thing for traits- either cosmetic, nor lore based.

Leave it as is.

Emphasis mine. So your next reason for keeping this going?

You're not reading. You choose to respond to a question I'm not asking. Instead you're inserting your opinion about if research was account wide.


Again...that is not the question
The question is...Because ZOS made CP and mounts account wide, why not research.

You're comments support why you feel that would be bad IF it was account wide. Comprehend that it's not and that its not being looked at by ZOS. I'm interested in this happening and can make an argument to have it or not to have it as you are doing but that's not the topic.

If someone says ZOS why is gold shareable account wide?
Or ZOS why are mounts not shareable account wide?
Or my question WHY IS RESEARCH NOT ACCOUNT WIDE AFTER MOUNTS AND CP WERE MADE ACCOUNT WIDE?

The reply to those questions is not why you feel it wouldn't work. That's a null point and personal opinion. ZOS may respond to my question and then look at the impact of such a change but again the impact only comes after the answer to the question.

Perhaps their response could be something like....
-We don't see enough players using this to make any changes.
-This is being looked at and there will be more to come.
-We never thought it would make a difference but now we see it will, thanks for bringing it up.
-We only are making incremental changes and this part of the game is not within scope.
-Etc. Etc.

You read the thread...just the title and went into your dialogue. You have attempted to position an argument...your argument with supporting valid points.
You have NOT read the content of the thread.

It's like people do all over the Internet. Some call it click bait where a title of an article draws you in but unless you read the entire article, you end up talking about the title and miss the topics in the article.

This keeps going because you continue to force down my throat that your points are valid and that I have issues with your comments.

Honestly, I'm not interested in comments that are off the focus of the question. Im attempting to redirect attention away from anyone commenting from only reading the title and engage with those who are commenting after reading the content.

TheShadowScout

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The question is...Because ZOS made CP and mounts account wide, why not research.

Getting tired of this coming full circle all the time...

Because mounts have only the cosmetic part account wide, and the functional part still per character. Dyes are account wide, but only cosmetic again. CP have a acount wide pool, true, but the acutal functional part is again spent per character. So why in Lorkans name should the purely functional part of the trait research be account wide???

IF research was account wide, it would have to be redone as part of the champion system. Meaning no easy unlocking extra research slots through skill points, but all paid by ChP AND all research started also account wide, so no researching different stuff on different characters. NOT GOOD!
The only ones who'd benefit were those who already researched half the traits on one character and half on the other, who suddenly would get all trats unlocked while dodging all the long "research eighth trait" waiting times.
Which would leave all those not having done that in preperation for an unlikely game change feeling cheated. Not a good thing.

And before we get another rotation... remember:
- cosmetic: account wide
- functional: character
Want a second crafting character? Reseach those traits a second time. Just like if you want a second endgame character to try a new class, you have to level that character seperately as well.

'nuff said.

nerevarine1138

Iluvrien wrote: »

Bulldog1205 wrote: »

Those aren't difficult questions. You give it to the character that found the item and did the research. And you calculate the timer based on the character doing the research. Not that hard.

I agree with the first part, except that it then means that this aspect of the research isn't account-wide.

The second one is more problematic. If a current player had two characters, one is a crafter and has maxed out that particular passive. As such they get 3 slots, the 25% research time reduction and the research time cap of 30 days. The other character has no points spent in the passive and so has 1 slot and no reductions...

...yet the second character receives the credit for the research of the first?

Not so sure that would be fair as what you would get almost instantly was one or more researching bots, low level characters concentrating purely on levelling one or more crafts and then never touched again so as to provide the benefits of all of the crafting passives to the whole account through research.

Thank you for actually thinking about this.

There is absolutely no way to make an account-wide research system work without making crafting passives account-wide as well. And at that point, you might as well just make every character on the account the same level and give them all the same skill points. It's a terrible idea.

NewBlacksmurf

Back on topic....
I wonder if the research progress is tied to a specific character save vs mounts that have always been account based and mount access and riding skills being character save specific. Perhaps the CP idea began as an account based thought by design so naturally things that were account based changed under those heading.

I'm thinking ZOS is looking at changes based on how progress is saved vs how progress is achieved.

Thoughts?

TheShadowScout

The mounts have ALWAYS been character specific. One character buys a mount, pays to raise its stats, and every other character has to see where they get their horsey on their own...
Only in the upcoming update are they going to seperate the mount appereance, and the mount stats. Stats will remain character specific, but appereances unlocked become account wide to make way for the crown store purchasable special mount appereances.
So each character still will have to buy their own mount, and now level their own riding skill to boost its stats, but can have it -look- like any appereance the whole account has unlocked.
That's all for mounty account-wideness.

In effect, its more like "dyes for horses" then anything functional. They just changed the mounts because they want to sell appereance options in the crown store.

All progression is pretty much every game I play has always been character specific.

The Champion system is a step beyond that, giving account wide post-50 experience gains contributing to a pool each character can spend individually on passives and such.
It's a new concept here. For Veteran Players. To reward them for time spent gaming past the main story, to provide slow progression throughout all the endgame content without raising the level cap (which I am certain they will do someday too, come a big DLC). And considering just how much expees it will gobble up, a good idea under those circumstances. In other games, I always hated not getting any progression for all the things I do to have fun while at endgame... here, soon, that will no longer be the case, and I shall thank the powers that be for it.

Normal levels will still be character specific, as they should be.
Skill points will still be character specific, as they should be.
Skyshards found will still be character specific, as they should be.
Researching traits will still be character specific, as it should be.

NewBlacksmurf

The mounts like the CE mount and the Palamino are def account based. The others are not. If you purchased the Imperial edition or the $15 horse those are account based from early on and pre-orders. Also gold is shared via the bank amount all characters in one account so really even if one character needs to unlock the mount, the progress of an account makes it possible for any character to do so.

The other in-game mounts were not so by design I'm thinking because some are account based it was very easy to adjust the 1gp unlock and remove the per chat unlock....
*edit - also the mounts that look different also came with different starting stats so its a lot more than a cosmetic choice.

That's just a thought. You may be right and I could be wrong

As far as why they changed things to be account wide based on your reply above...interesting and insightful...

Progression...Yep

VR to Champion Points....OK, but I just wonder how they handle removing the VR levels because right now the VR levels limit 50 and beyond questing. For example, I run into issues when I played in Craglorn because you really need to be VR11 or higher.

And the bottom of your comments....that's your opinion.
But why...if you are ZOS was research not adjusted considering how gold, CP, mounts, inventory, mats in the bank and guilds?

Progression as you point out "should be" character specific. But if a character's progression is now going to impact the account and other players on the account because of how the gold, CP, bank, mounts are changing...why would research be excluded?

Research progression is basically finding an item in the world, and choosing to research it vs. sale or break it down for mats. You can take action or put the item in a bank which many already do as an alt does the crafting. Considering if the other two choices are made, this is an account wide results as gold and mats are already shared, why not look at research as the third choice is the only choice that does not impact the account? Everyone who is a crafter looks at item X or Y and throws it into the bank for an alt to research. That is a human behavior that is a result of the current design.

Just like the mounts, gold, mats, items, CP...adjustments are being made to the human behavior. Maybe its because ppl were upset at the VR leveling per character. Maybe people were frustrated with having to send gold via bank for another alt to get a mount...

Is there something in the code that prevents this or was it just overlooked?
OR
Maybe is it something not mentioned...

NewBlacksmurf

Nobody is making 3 or 4 different crafters for the same categories.
If they are, then its a personal adventure that has nothing to do with being a capable crafter.

Someone may have one character for woodworking, one for BS and one for cloth but that's about it. AND...that is a personal choice, not a game limitation.

We aren't talking about recipe's or any other crafter type because they do not research in the manner being discussed.

wraith808

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

You're not reading. You choose to respond to a question I'm not asking. Instead you're inserting your opinion about if research was account wide.


Again...that is not the question
The question is...Because ZOS made CP and mounts account wide, why not research.

You're comments support why you feel that would be bad IF it was account wide. Comprehend that it's not and that its not being looked at by ZOS. I'm interested in this happening and can make an argument to have it or not to have it as you are doing but that's not the topic.

If someone says ZOS why is gold shareable account wide?
Or ZOS why are mounts not shareable account wide?
Or my question WHY IS RESEARCH NOT ACCOUNT WIDE AFTER MOUNTS AND CP WERE MADE ACCOUNT WIDE?

That's the QUESTION that I ANSWERED.

RESEARCH isn't account wide because it is linked to a SKILL. MOUNTS are account wide because of CONCESSIONS to COSMETIC USE. CP are actually NOT account wide, only the EARNING of them is because they BUILT THAT INTO THE SYSTEM. That's the SAME thing I've been saying the WHOLE TIME, and you JUST WON'T READ.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

why....?
get smithing, woodworking and cloth on a single char, no problems with research timer or styles being char bound (like I did)

NewBlacksmurf

wraith808 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

You're not reading. You choose to respond to a question I'm not asking. Instead you're inserting your opinion about if research was account wide.


Again...that is not the question
The question is...Because ZOS made CP and mounts account wide, why not research.

You're comments support why you feel that would be bad IF it was account wide. Comprehend that it's not and that its not being looked at by ZOS. I'm interested in this happening and can make an argument to have it or not to have it as you are doing but that's not the topic.

If someone says ZOS why is gold shareable account wide?
Or ZOS why are mounts not shareable account wide?
Or my question WHY IS RESEARCH NOT ACCOUNT WIDE AFTER MOUNTS AND CP WERE MADE ACCOUNT WIDE?

That's the QUESTION that I ANSWERED.

RESEARCH isn't account wide because it is linked to a SKILL. MOUNTS are account wide because of CONCESSIONS to COSMETIC USE. CP are actually NOT account wide, only the EARNING of them is because they BUILT THAT INTO THE SYSTEM. That's the SAME thing I've been saying the WHOLE TIME, and you JUST WON'T READ.

I thought to respond but I'm not....in short, this is not the topic of discussion or the logic of my post.

helediron

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Nobody is making 3 or 4 different crafters for the same categories.
If they are, then its a personal adventure that has nothing to do with being a capable crafter.
...snip...

Top crafters do it.

NewBlacksmurf

helediron wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Nobody is making 3 or 4 different crafters for the same categories.
If they are, then its a personal adventure that has nothing to do with being a capable crafter.
...snip...

Top crafters do it.

Personal adventure

helediron

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Nobody is making 3 or 4 different crafters for the same categories.
If they are, then its a personal adventure that has nothing to do with being a capable crafter.
...snip...

Top crafters do it.

Personal adventure

As good opinion as suggesting changes to crafting because of horse. End thread for me.

Tandor

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

You're not reading. You choose to respond to a question I'm not asking. Instead you're inserting your opinion about if research was account wide.


Again...that is not the question
The question is...Because ZOS made CP and mounts account wide, why not research.

You're comments support why you feel that would be bad IF it was account wide. Comprehend that it's not and that its not being looked at by ZOS. I'm interested in this happening and can make an argument to have it or not to have it as you are doing but that's not the topic.

If someone says ZOS why is gold shareable account wide?
Or ZOS why are mounts not shareable account wide?
Or my question WHY IS RESEARCH NOT ACCOUNT WIDE AFTER MOUNTS AND CP WERE MADE ACCOUNT WIDE?

That's the QUESTION that I ANSWERED.

RESEARCH isn't account wide because it is linked to a SKILL. MOUNTS are account wide because of CONCESSIONS to COSMETIC USE. CP are actually NOT account wide, only the EARNING of them is because they BUILT THAT INTO THE SYSTEM. That's the SAME thing I've been saying the WHOLE TIME, and you JUST WON'T READ.

I thought to respond but I'm not....in short, this is not the topic of discussion or the logic of my post.

So when people say why they don't want researching made account-wide, you say that's not the question behind the topic which is why mounts are account-wide but researching isn't. Then when they say why mounts are account-wide but researching isn't, you aren't responding because suddenly that isn't the question after all?

End of topic.

Nestor

Bulldog1205 wrote: »

Right now I have to switch characters and exchange mats to make everything I need.

I solved this by keeping one stack of every equipment material/trait/style gem in the bank. My crafters just hold on to the Tempers for their respective crafts. I never have to switch out to a mule unless I am making something for someone who is at a different level than I am.

Nestor

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Nobody is making 3 or 4 different crafters for the same categories.

Then nobody needs account wide research.

NewBlacksmurf

Nestor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Nobody is making 3 or 4 different crafters for the same categories.

Then nobody needs account wide research.

According to the other comments Im wrong and there are lots who have 3 or 4 alts for crafting.

TheShadowScout

I have some crafting on every of my 8 characters. Just in case. And just for fun. Still don't want to see acount wide research, don't need it, don't want it.

Please stop closing youe ears and keep repeating "gimme"... this is starting more and more to look like a trolling post and less like an actial idea to think about.

If you want to craft, spend the time researching stuff on your crafting character(s) like everyone, per character. Just like anyone who wants to do endgame has to spend time levelling each alt they make to that point, per character.

NewBlacksmurf

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I have some crafting on every of my 8 characters. Just in case. And just for fun. Still don't want to see acount wide research, don't need it, don't want it.

Please stop closing youe ears and keep repeating "gimme"... this is starting more and more to look like a trolling post and less like an actial idea to think about.

If you want to craft, spend the time researching stuff on your crafting character(s) like everyone, per character. Just like anyone who wants to do endgame has to spend time levelling each alt they make to that point, per character.

Edit:
Are you trolling???

MasterSpatula

You know, you don't really need multiple characters to have the same crafting abilities. It could be kind of nice and convenient, but it's hardly necessary. Want a specific trait on an item? Craft on the character that knows that craft for that item or put in the work to learn it again.

Woolenthreads

I don't have any alts for crafting. I only have alts for playing. All of my alts have crafting but, with the exception of my first character, specialised to their concept.

AlexDougherty

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Nobody is making 3 or 4 different crafters for the same categories.
If they are, then its a personal adventure that has nothing to do with being a capable crafter.
...snip...

I did.

In fact I made sure I had every craft duplicated, just to be safe, and also spread out my research between them, and then duplicated it so every gear/trait combo is known by at least one crafter.

Then I got the hirelings and started building up reserves of mats before I reached that tier, which was a nice extra.