A Vocal Minority - And Welcome New Interested Players!

Valencer · January 2015

You see, the problem is that you're not even acknowledging that the B2P/cash store move may carry some downsides. Some of us really don't like having a cash store in the game and you're not even seriously considering this different opinion, showing a lack of respect. But that illusionary high horse must be oh so comfortable.

I could just as easily say that people sharing your opinion are in the minority. You've got absolutely nothing to back your claim up.

Tavore1138 · January 2015

Disliking something that impacts on something you generally enjoy is not the same as anger or rage - please leave your straw men at home.

Wizzo91 · January 2015

e.chiesa73b16_ESO wrote: »

I'm looking forward to these changes: more people to play with can't be a bad thing.

I just don't want that eso's world becomes an extravagant mounts festival with packs lottery

sorry for my bad english

That's what it will be in 6-12 months time. If box sales drop and they are not getting enough cash from the cashshop they wil add more and more p2w and ugly vanity items.

It will happen. Now it seems OK - in future it will not. Have fun with it as long as it lasts.

Tandor · January 2015

I'm completely relaxed about the changes, which I believe will enhance the long-term viability of the game. As to whether it will lead to the wrong kind of stuff being sold in the cash shop we'll have to wait and see, but I'm more a "glass is half-full" type than the usual doomsayers who are assuming the worst from the start, so I'll happily keep playing (and subscribing) in the hope and expectation that I shall continue to have fun playing the game. If it turns out that it ceases to be fun for whatever reason then that is the time I will cancel and walk away, not now.

Grapdjan · January 2015

I acknowledge the concerns, that are in the B2P feedback thread, but the endless hyperbolic doom-saying all over these forums was annoying so I piped up. I've seen the hysterical rantings of the fanatical few drag a game forum into silly places before over NGEs, combat system revamps and f2p/b2p revamps, and quite honestly it gets old.

Of course I consider the different opinion. I feel a little sorry though for people for whom this is a big deal. This may or may not change it loads, this may or not make a huge difference to population. This may or may not mean I can spend £250 and completely kick your ass. I simply feel that it will 'be ok'.

I'm not on a high horse, not yet until I can buy one for Crowns;p, I just find this whole tearing of hair and smearing of ashes very dull, and bad for ESO, which I currently am enjoying.

KleanZlate · January 2015

Valencer wrote: »

You see, the problem is that you're not even acknowledging that the B2P/cash store move may carry some downsides. Some of us really don't like having a cash store in the game and you're not even seriously considering this different opinion, showing a lack of respect. But that illusionary high horse must be oh so comfortable.

I could just as easily say that people sharing your opinion are in the minority. You've got absolutely nothing to back your claim up.

I'm not saying I like having a cash store or even the whole B2P concept. I'm just saying that I want to try before I cry.

Valencer · January 2015

Well, I can appreciate a more moderate view.

Some of us have been playing ESO for a long time and grown attached to the game. Now it's about to change in a very fundamental way all of a sudden.

2 days ago we were making fun of the F2P rumors. Now we're speculating how bad the cash store is going to be. Of course that has people up in arms.

Surely there will be positives too, like having more people to play with. I just hope the game will be better off in the long run, and history shows some doubt is warranted.

SantieClaws · January 2015

I don't doubt there will lots of new players and I welcome them all. My concern is how many of them will stay and give feedback and build addons and test on the PTS and help run guilds and help other players and do all the things the people I know have been doing for the last year.

If you don't pay for a game you are less "invested" emotionally and financially in wanting it to suceed and being willing to put in the extra effort to be part of that.

BlueIllyrian · January 2015

Felling better OP? Feeling vindicated in trash talking those who dare to disagree? Is it warm in your righteous herd?

I am sure your cash shop will be different from all the others and will not slide to p2w, like all the others. I am also sure your b2p will not turn into f2p, unlike all those other games. This time it will be different!

One of the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results every time.

DDuke · January 2015

New players?
Do you mean those cheap people that thought ESO wasn't "good enough" to warrant subscription?

A Vocal Minority?
Do you mean 90% of the people you talk to in the forums or in game?

Because if that is the case, I don't know whether you're ignorant or just trolling.

The reason people are angry, is because ZOS is doing something (with money that the consumers invested for betterment of the game) that they don't want.
ZOS is essentially cashing out in order to get the worst elements of humanity to play this game.

People have all the right to be pissed off.

Galathil923 · January 2015

I was a little upset with the announcement was because it was never brought to my attention in "Development Discussions" I had no idea they were even working on this.
We have been paying for a sub and not getting any new content,I think its been 3 months now? Officially we have been funding the new B2P model without any knowledge of them working on it.

KleanZlate · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

New players?
Do you mean those cheap people that thought ESO wasn't "good enough" to warrant subscription?

A Vocal Minority?
Do you mean 90% of the people you talk to in the forums or in game?

Because if that is the case, I don't know whether you're ignorant or just trolling.

The reason people are angry, is because ZOS is doing something (with money that the consumers invested for betterment of the game) that they don't want.
ZOS is essentially cashing out in order to get the worst elements of humanity to play this game.

People have all the right to be pissed off.

So you'd say a majority of ESO subscribers frequent these forums and in game chat? I'm not so sure. And 90% of people you talk to in game might be 90% of very little, right?

Naivefanboi · January 2015

Grapdjan wrote: »

A sad feature of MMOs is that forums are usually populated by a small fraction of players, and this minority are usually extremely vocal and contribute the largest part of a games forum community.

Usually there are within that group an even smaller fraction of prolific posters, gaining a small level of 'superstardom' among the rest. Attributed to these people is a sort of clairvoyance as they read situations that develop in the games unfolding story such as nerfs, content drops or changing game mechanics. This group also believes themselves to be more important and possibly having a special relationship with the games development team as obviously due to the size of their input they have most direct replies from development or customer service reps.

If there is a perceived threat or issue facing the game and it is something they do not like - i.e. content drops not happening fast enough, patch notes being delayed, changes in payment options or simply not feeling like they are being told what they want to know, this group will turn venomously and throw a tantrum until they either quit, or manage to reconcile the changes with their addiction and carry on playing until the next major upset.

When you have an announcement like this B2P one which, without any empirical evidence, is immediately denounced as 'the death of X game' then the forums usually erupt with the same 200 - 400 players spamming and filling said forums with Chicken Little like cries of impending doom. Along with spurious weighted polls and screenshots of 'X game has been uninstalled'.

This can be damaging to the game if you have any potential new players coming along to visit the forums in the wake of said new announcements, so I'd like to say to anyone reading -

DON'T PANIC! The people posting all the rage/betrayal/I quit threads on here, and voting in silly polls are the equivalent of the crazy white bearded hobo walking through your city with a board round his neck that says 'The End is Nigh'!

The other 95% of people are happily enjoying the game and are not even registered to post on the forums as they don't feel the need.

yea dues games a triple AAA product thats why its going b2p....
Rift and SWTOR make more MONEY then ever now!
so that automagically means the games have improved right? of course only possible outcome.

lol new players? keep dreamen bud, used to tell myself similar thing when i logged into alts and so saw many people at the banker. guess it wasnt enough wallets/people after all

Alphashado · January 2015

All of you people that think a cash shop is going to generate enough revenue for new content are fools. The box sakes from consoles will get them a chunk of cash and that will be it. Profits will eventually peter off after that and you won't see much new content. This is all about consoles and getting a immediate chunk of cash in ZoS's pockets. Go ask anyone that plays GW2, arguably the most popular B2P game on the market and the biggest gripe they will have is an astonishing lack of new content only 2 years after launch.

Naivefanboi · January 2015

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

Grapdjan wrote: »

DON'T PANIC! The people posting all the rage/betrayal/I quit threads on here, and voting in silly polls are the equivalent of the crazy white bearded hobo walking through your city with a board round his neck that says 'The End is Nigh'!

I called out the same thing after the champion system drama.

ZOS come out and say "30 CP are received for all account with a VR1 character". THey then go on XMas break. The babies all over the interwebz begin to cry, and begin to 'unsub'.

ZOS come back from XMas break, they then come out and say "you know what, you guys are right- here is a good compromise to help distinguish players on the time spent in game".

Well done to all the morons who unsubbed. GG.

As a company they listen to feedback and make changes. Sometimes being constructive and mature about a topic is going to go a long way to helping ZOS continually improve their game. There is always going to be things that each individual player either agrees with or disagrees with. YOu have a right to give feedback in a constructive way, and ZOS has to weigh up all options and make decisions based on this. You will never be 100% pleased with everything, but that is life. You won't always get your way. Deal with it.

The best bit about this, you don't even need a sub to play now. Go ahead and cancel it. Your threats of cancelling your sub are idle and carry no weight at all anymore, ZOS will still let you enjoy the wonderful world of Tamriel.

thats why you go all out and delete your account. 1 less active account they can claim.

Naivefanboi · January 2015

Grapdjan wrote: »

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

theres a poll on the B2P transition consisting of 754 votes, of which 64% are currently against the change. 95% of those that voted are probably happily playing the game, but 64% are still not happy with the transition. yes, some are quitting and saying so. its called an emotional reaction. they are emotionally invested in a game that fit a style they preferred. now that it doesn't, they are behaving like people do- anger.

65% of a 754 people who bothered to vote, out of an extremely small segment of the ESO player base are behaving like children do - anger. The rest of the population are unaware of what is being posted on the forums as they are at work/school looking forward to playing for an hour or two later, or are happily playing away totally unconcerned about any pricing changes.

rofl yea thats the only scenario.

im sure no one ever just let sub run out of a average game they never really cared about.

i played ffrealm reborn , could just never get into it. so i stopped playing. just cause i didnt go complain on the forum or post a unsubbed picture doesnt mean i was happy or planning on returning.

DDuke · January 2015

vestmanneb17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

New players?
Do you mean those cheap people that thought ESO wasn't "good enough" to warrant subscription?

A Vocal Minority?
Do you mean 90% of the people you talk to in the forums or in game?

Because if that is the case, I don't know whether you're ignorant or just trolling.

The reason people are angry, is because ZOS is doing something (with money that the consumers invested for betterment of the game) that they don't want.
ZOS is essentially cashing out in order to get the worst elements of humanity to play this game.

People have all the right to be pissed off.

So you'd say a majority of ESO subscribers frequent these forums and in game chat? I'm not so sure. And 90% of people you talk to in game might be 90% of very little, right?

You are familiar with how polls work, right? You don't need everyone to vote on them in order to find a general consensus on things.
Even if we were to give these polls a margin of error, it wouldn't change the fact that majority are against these changes. Just take a look at the numbers, there's no margin of error that turns them around.

Lastly, if these people you talk about never frequented the forums (wait a second, what are you doing here then?), then they must not care about the game enough to provide feedback for the developer.

Zoltariel · January 2015

I'd like to toss in I am really happy to see the game go free to play.. or should we called it buy to pay? I guess either could work. No subscription is great even though I plan to continue to pay. I have friends who intend to try the game out now.

Naivefanboi · January 2015

Grapdjan wrote: »

It's a pleasure! My friends and I have been having a ball in ESO for a few months now, and are looking forward to the cash shop to be honest. Give us more of a chance to put some cash into ZOS pockets to spend on more development.

A common misconception of cash shops is that it will it drain development time away from 'actual' content. Duh, they get people in to specifically develop cash shop stuff. And how long does it take to draw a fire breathing water dragon anyway?

wow lmao.
mounts being in the cash shop debunk your whole misconception statment.
but then again who wants to go earn a unique mount right? do a riad or dungeon or quest line to unlock in game?.....nah just put it in cash shop!
thats the kind of gameplay we set out for with ESO rofl. people like you are the problem.cant wait to see the console sales numbers.

e.chiesa73b16_ESO · January 2015

Galathil923 wrote: »

I was a little upset with the announcement was because it was never brought to my attention in "Development Discussions" I had no idea they were even working on this.
We have been paying for a sub and not getting any new content,I think its been 3 months now? Officially we have been funding the new B2P model without any knowledge of them working on it.

We were not funding anything...we were paying for a service: to play the game.
That's all. The owner of the service (Zenimax) choose its price. You thought it was ok and you could afford it, so you pay it.

The fact that some of you post such things in this very thread show us how much the OP was right.

PBpsy · January 2015

A vocal PAYING minority ... And Welcome New Players that didn't give enough of a crap about TESO to pay a $15 sub.

DDuke · January 2015

e.chiesa73b16_ESO wrote: »

Galathil923 wrote: »

I was a little upset with the announcement was because it was never brought to my attention in "Development Discussions" I had no idea they were even working on this.
We have been paying for a sub and not getting any new content,I think its been 3 months now? Officially we have been funding the new B2P model without any knowledge of them working on it.

We were not funding anything...we were paying for a service: to play the game.
That's all. The owner of the service (Zenimax) choose its price. You thought it was ok and you could afford it, so you pay it.

The fact that some of you post such things in this very thread show us how much the OP was right.

Not funding anything?

Where do you think they came up with the money to pay the developers & develop content?

People these days...

Yasha · January 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

All of you people that think a cash shop is going to generate enough revenue for new content are fools. The box sakes from consoles will get them a chunk of cash and that will be it. Profits will eventually peter off after that and you won't see much new content. This is all about consoles and getting a immediate chunk of cash in ZoS's pockets. Go ask anyone that plays GW2, arguably the most popular B2P game on the market and the biggest gripe they will have is an astonishing lack of new content only 2 years after launch.

I play GW2 and have no gripes with it. In fact I love how they have set up their business model, it is extremely fair for consumers and developers. It has had more new content added to it than most sub-based games. Look at WoW for example, they charge you a sub and then charge basically the price of a new game for expansions. Total ripoff.

I am elated that ESO is doing something similar to GW2, it is the best payment model for mmos.

Kilandros · January 2015

Grapdjan wrote: »

And? They are a business exploring ways to make more revenue.

EXPLORING WAYS TO MAKE REVENUE? LOL

This has been in the works for probably a year. There's no "exploring" going on here. They advertised us on a notion of a sub-fee game with content every 4-6 weeks.

What did we get? A game that gave us hardly any content for the first YEAR and instead spent our money developing content for B2P which they were always planning on switching to.

Stop. Being. So. Naive.

Kilandros · January 2015

Grapdjan wrote: »

A sad feature of MMOs is that forums are usually populated by a small fraction of players, and this minority are usually extremely vocal and contribute the largest part of a games forum community.

Usually there are within that group an even smaller fraction of prolific posters, gaining a small level of 'superstardom' among the rest. Attributed to these people is a sort of clairvoyance as they read situations that develop in the games unfolding story such as nerfs, content drops or changing game mechanics. This group also believes themselves to be more important and possibly having a special relationship with the games development team as obviously due to the size of their input they have most direct replies from development or customer service reps.

If there is a perceived threat or issue facing the game and it is something they do not like - i.e. content drops not happening fast enough, patch notes being delayed, changes in payment options or simply not feeling like they are being told what they want to know, this group will turn venomously and throw a tantrum until they either quit, or manage to reconcile the changes with their addiction and carry on playing until the next major upset.

When you have an announcement like this B2P one which, without any empirical evidence, is immediately denounced as 'the death of X game' then the forums usually erupt with the same 200 - 400 players spamming and filling said forums with Chicken Little like cries of impending doom. Along with spurious weighted polls and screenshots of 'X game has been uninstalled'.

This can be damaging to the game if you have any potential new players coming along to visit the forums in the wake of said new announcements, so I'd like to say to anyone reading -

DON'T PANIC! The people posting all the rage/betrayal/I quit threads on here, and voting in silly polls are the equivalent of the crazy white bearded hobo walking through your city with a board round his neck that says 'The End is Nigh'!

The other 95% of people are happily enjoying the game and are not even registered to post on the forums as they don't feel the need.

Nah, I suspect you have no way of knowing who's actually in the minority here. Or do you have a scientific poll tucked away in all that drivel? 95% pulled out of your butt oh my! What a statistic!

Kilandros · January 2015

.

Robocles · January 2015

Gee... a fanboi lovefe

Grapdjan wrote: »

I acknowledge the concerns, that are in the B2P feedback thread, but the endless hyperbolic doom-saying all over these forums was annoying so I piped up. I've seen the hysterical rantings of the fanatical few drag a game forum into silly places before over NGEs, combat system revamps and f2p/b2p revamps, and quite honestly it gets old.

Of course I consider the different opinion. I feel a little sorry though for people for whom this is a big deal. This may or may not change it loads, this may or not make a huge difference to population. This may or may not mean I can spend £250 and completely kick your ass. I simply feel that it will 'be ok'.

I'm not on a high horse, not yet until I can buy one for Crowns;p, I just find this whole tearing of hair and smearing of ashes very dull, and bad for ESO, which I currently am enjoying.

You feel sorry for people who think it's a big deal, as if you are somehow better than them? Yet, here you are, deriding them. I love the irony.

KleanZlate · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

vestmanneb17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

New players?
Do you mean those cheap people that thought ESO wasn't "good enough" to warrant subscription?

A Vocal Minority?
Do you mean 90% of the people you talk to in the forums or in game?

Because if that is the case, I don't know whether you're ignorant or just trolling.

The reason people are angry, is because ZOS is doing something (with money that the consumers invested for betterment of the game) that they don't want.
ZOS is essentially cashing out in order to get the worst elements of humanity to play this game.

People have all the right to be pissed off.

So you'd say a majority of ESO subscribers frequent these forums and in game chat? I'm not so sure. And 90% of people you talk to in game might be 90% of very little, right?

You are familiar with how polls work, right? You don't need everyone to vote on them in order to find a general consensus on things.
Even if we were to give these polls a margin of error, it wouldn't change the fact that majority are against these changes. Just take a look at the numbers, there's no margin of error that turns them around.

Lastly, if these people you talk about never frequented the forums (wait a second, what are you doing here then?), then they must not care about the game enough to provide feedback for the developer.

If these forums give a fair representation of the wide range of ESO players then forum polls are relevant. Not everyone is interested in being vocal about the game. Some people just want to log on, play and log off. I mainly come here to check up on patch notes and useful discussion about builds etc.

You may very well be right but I'm not gonna get sucked further into your negativity mate so good luck to you and I hope to see you in Tamriel.

e.chiesa73b16_ESO · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

e.chiesa73b16_ESO wrote: »

Galathil923 wrote: »

I was a little upset with the announcement was because it was never brought to my attention in "Development Discussions" I had no idea they were even working on this.
We have been paying for a sub and not getting any new content,I think its been 3 months now? Officially we have been funding the new B2P model without any knowledge of them working on it.

We were not funding anything...we were paying for a service: to play the game.
That's all. The owner of the service (Zenimax) choose its price. You thought it was ok and you could afford it, so you pay it.

The fact that some of you post such things in this very thread show us how much the OP was right.

Not funding anything?

Where do you think they came up with the money to pay the developers & develop content?

People these days...

Soooo, if you come to my store and buy something you are funding me?
I really think you don't know what funding is.

"Sources of funding include credit, venture capital, donations, grants, savings, subsidies, and taxes."...I don't see subscription in this list.

If you pay a subscription you are just paying for a service.

BlueIllyrian · January 2015

e.chiesa73b16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

e.chiesa73b16_ESO wrote: »

Galathil923 wrote: »

I was a little upset with the announcement was because it was never brought to my attention in "Development Discussions" I had no idea they were even working on this.
We have been paying for a sub and not getting any new content,I think its been 3 months now? Officially we have been funding the new B2P model without any knowledge of them working on it.

We were not funding anything...we were paying for a service: to play the game.
That's all. The owner of the service (Zenimax) choose its price. You thought it was ok and you could afford it, so you pay it.

The fact that some of you post such things in this very thread show us how much the OP was right.

Not funding anything?

Where do you think they came up with the money to pay the developers & develop content?

People these days...

Soooo, if you come to my store and buy something you are funding me?
I really think you don't know what funding is.

"Sources of funding include credit, venture capital, donations, grants, savings, subsidies, and taxes."...I don't see subscription in this list.

If you pay a subscription you are just paying for a service.

Yes, I am sure subscriptions didn't have anything with drawing in venture capital or paying the salaries. Investment bankers are probably just waiting in line to throw money at ZOS because of their nice and polished website.