IS ESO DYING?

Rhavein · December 2014

It seems to me another bait post. But let's be serious. From what I've seen low level areas pretty populated. So, even tho some people are leaving the game. new players always coming.

For PvP, I have to say pvp population is alot less than what we have several months ago. Due to lag&freeze problem, many players stopped playing pvp or game completely. But also again, I see some new faces in Cyrodiil.

Maybe, there is less activity but loyal players + new comers still make huge player numbers.

Vahrokh · December 2014

EvE Online forums see "game's dying" threads like this since 2003. 12 years later...

But yes, ESO has suffered plenty due to being released 1 year before it was ready. How do I say "1 year"? Because most of what they now sell as "patches" and "content update" in reality are just the final 6 months worth of coding being actually being done. The other 6 months would be for the real content (aka playable content) we are missing: true raids, more zones, maybe more PvP "kinds" and so on.

In fact, when I read:

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

If after console release they have less than 300,000 players than yes they will have to change the business model. I don't see that happening.

I can't avoid pointing out that even changing business model does not magically implement playable content. SWTOR did not rise up from the ashes because it went F2P but because they actually introduced a lot of new content and changes on top of it.
You can label "put talent points with a different button icons" and "steal some tomatoes and agro some NPCs" as content if you feel easily pleased, of course.

Many aren't, and like me are seeing their last days of playing.

Enkil · December 2014

F2P is a hopeless end for a (Western) MMO. I pay a sub now even though I haven't played in over a month, knowing the game will get better. And there are plenty like me. The minute it goes F2P, I will realize the dev's are incompetent and I'll lose all interest.

People that cry out for F2P are just wanting to play the game for free. Simple as that. It's an unfortunate reality in our increasingly capitalistic society. Sorry, but that's not Elder Scrolls. Go play a Korean game if you want that. There are quite a few great titles out there for the demographic.

zaria · December 2014

Jitterbug wrote: »

I regularly (from spamming /z in Daggerfall trying to recruit for my guild) talk to new players. This is not of any statistical value, but there are new players coming, is all I'm saying.

Leveling an alt and its plenty of new players around.

Sindala wrote: »

Blud wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

There're lots of guilds, but guilds that actually do something are either elitist or have cliques of elitists that have their own SO group, few vet dsa groups and they only play with each other.

This happens in every game. It's just human nature and player psychology type. It won't change. Some people play to explore and some to be better than others, etc.

Made worse in this game as you can join 5 guilds, thus making the connection to the guild that thin that its meaningless.
Just have to do it to sell junk on the crappy guild stores because apparently no solo player is clever enough to have a vendor to sell there wares...

Lesson to Zenimax....you join ONE guild and if it suits you it becomes almost family and ties are made that bring you back each day.
You join FIVE guilds and its, 'meh which one today...oh I cant be bothered'. No loyalty.
It's not rocket science I really think most of the bosses there have never even seen an MMO let alone played one.

5 guilds is the best idea ever, it lets you join multiple guilds for various purposes.
You will naturally focus on one or two guilds.

With one guild the following might happen: Guild become inactive, guild fall apart because of conflict in this case you have to switch.
Worse guild might move in an direction who don't suit you, guild is to small/ casual for raids or decent pvp groups, you are not invited on raids as its too many good players.
They are still friends but they don't offer the gameplay you want.

Dropping the guild and try to find an new one or stay?

I'm in one Khajiit RP guild, another pretty causal and thigh knit guild. One guild who is PvP/ PvE and an merge of people from the Khajiit and some other small guilds.
One large PvE guild and a trade guild.
I would not want to loose any of them.
Main problem is that its too much going on.

Else you can join an huge guild to get lots of group play or an small one for friendship.

jeevin · December 2014

Vahrokh wrote: »

EvE Online forums see "game's dying" threads like this since 2003. 12 years later...

But yes, ESO has suffered plenty due to being released 1 year before it was ready. How do I say "1 year"? Because most of what they now sell as "patches" and "content update" in reality are just the final 6 months worth of coding being actually being done. The other 6 months would be for the real content (aka playable content) we are missing: true raids, more zones, maybe more PvP "kinds" and so on.

In fact, when I read:

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

If after console release they have less than 300,000 players than yes they will have to change the business model. I don't see that happening.

I can't avoid pointing out that even changing business model does not magically implement playable content. SWTOR did not rise up from the ashes because it went F2P but because they actually introduced a lot of new content and changes on top of it.
You can label "put talent points with a different button icons" and "steal some tomatoes and agro some NPCs" as content if you feel easily pleased, of course.

Many aren't, and like me are seeing their last days of playing.

Yeah I agree here. The changes that are incoming here are really just bringing the game toward release standard one would expect from an Elder Scrolls game. Hopefully the game gets there before console release but I wouldn't hold my breath. When the game starts getting meaningful content additions like zones, new guilds and new classes is when we'll know how gamers appreciate the game as a whole.

As it stands it's like I've said in another post, if your not enjoying the game in it's current form take a break because it's quite a few months yet until it's release worthy. There are heaps of awesome games to enjoy in the meanwhile. If your enjoying the game in it's current form, stay and enjoy. And I thank you for continuing to beta test and support the games future.

Edit: punctuation!??!

Vizier · December 2014

No it's not. The game is fun and getting better IMO. ESO will have a long life.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · December 2014

Also the consol[e] versi[o]n will soon come out and get even more players.

I don't think we should put any faith in the console version for reviving the game in the short term. It has been heavily delayed because the game was not finished, and at this point it seems likely that it will be delayed for a while longer. I think we have a few major updates ahead of us that will make or break the continued existence of ESO. If it withers away and dies on the PC platform, I don't think it can be marketed successfully to console gamers.

Mordria · December 2014

I think once/if they remove Cadwell's Silver & Gold(

) and make Craglorn multifaction and add other multifaction endgame zones the game will improve drastically.

Knootewoot · December 2014

I am dying too. It started the moment i was given birth. Might take 80-100 years but could be less. I dunno. And i don't have one sub

Lord_Kreegan · December 2014

One of these threads comes up every month. I think the marketing guys start them on a schedule just so the fanbois and fangurls will rise up and defend the game with irrational statements like, "I see millions of people in the starter zones! The game is growing!!!!!"

Yeah, right...

If you enjoy the game, then play it. If you don't enjoy the game, then don't play it.

Facts:
-- the game had a bad launch because it very obviously wasn't ready for launch, and that left a bad impression on the gaming community and garnered really bad reviews.
-- patches and updates have been filled with bugs, continuing that bad impression.
-- the original selling point of great three-way PvP ala DAoC has been compromised because of the severe lag-inducing netcode changes, class balance, and game responsiveness issues; that has chased away a lot of PvPers and probably lost the DAoC crowd.
-- the original selling point of "It's Elder Scrolls!" has been compromised by the three-faction scheme for AvAvA and -- especially at release -- mechanics and functionality that wasn't very Elder Scrolls-like (e.g., containers you couldn't click on; lore that was only a shell; etc.); and that chased away a lot of Elder Scrolls affficionados.
-- the original selling point of "Play how you want!" has been disproven time and again because of all the class and skill imbalances; that really shouldn't have surprised anyone, but if you're going to sell a game on that point, you'd best have a reasonable facsimile of truth in the statement.

So, of course the game has lost players. And people aren't blind to what they see; no shils, no marketing reps posing as forum goers, and no fanbois/fangurls can change what you see and actually experience, and on a good day I see less than 1/20th of the people I saw at release; so, automatically, when some numbnuts claims the game is growing I ignore his/her forum post.

That doesn't mean it's dying. It means ZOS has a very stupid marketing department that created false expectations and a very poor management team that didn't deliver its product on schedule and within budget and thus had to release early.

What does it mean?

It means ZOS has an uphill climb to get the game to the financial state they probably hoped to originally reach. They earned their bad reputation; it's up to them to overcome it. It's not up to us.

If you enjoy the game, then play it. If you don't enjoy the game, then don't play it.

AlexDougherty · December 2014

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

Somehow these threads remind me of Plato's Parable of the Cave.

Troglodytes....

We all are.

What?? we all live in caves (literal meaning of Troglodyte).

AlexDougherty · December 2014

Knootewoot wrote: »

I am dying too. It started the moment i was given birth. Might take 80-100 years but could be less. I dunno. And i don't have one sub

I had a sub once, a meatball marina sub, it was delicious.

But I agree, everything ends eventually, and there is no way of knowing when, until it actually ends.

I personally think ESO is hanging on, it has it's loyal fan base, people come back every so often and are surprised that it has improved (what else was it going to do) and they stay too.

In short we aren't in the danger zone at the minute, but we aren't in the safe zone yet either, sort of half way betwixt the two.

Sindala · December 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

Somehow these threads remind me of Plato's Parable of the Cave.

Troglodytes....

We all are.

What?? we all live in caves (literal meaning of Troglodyte).

Not me, I live in a Glass house

Knootewoot · December 2014

These threads where also in SWTOR after 2-3-4-5-6 months. And yet after 3 years the game still is there and there are many players. Yes, also F2P but also subbers.
Only game i actually saw dying was Vanguard which had eventually only 2 servers. You could see how many people where online at the moment and 1 server had 2 on prime time and the other 300-500.
Yes, then you are dead. But i still liked it until the pullplug date.

jeevin · December 2014

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

One of these threads comes up every month. I think the marketing guys start them on a schedule just so the fanbois and fangurls will rise up and defend the game with irrational statements like, "I see millions of people in the starter zones! The game is growing!!!!!"

Yeah, right...

If you enjoy the game, then play it. If you don't enjoy the game, then don't play it.

Facts:
-- the game had a bad launch because it very obviously wasn't ready for launch, and that left a bad impression on the gaming community and garnered really bad reviews.
-- patches and updates have been filled with bugs, continuing that bad impression.
-- the original selling point of great three-way PvP ala DAoC has been compromised because of the severe lag-inducing netcode changes, class balance, and game responsiveness issues; that has chased away a lot of PvPers and probably lost the DAoC crowd.
-- the original selling point of "It's Elder Scrolls!" has been compromised by the three-faction scheme for AvAvA and -- especially at release -- mechanics and functionality that wasn't very Elder Scrolls-like (e.g., containers you couldn't click on; lore that was only a shell; etc.); and that chased away a lot of Elder Scrolls affficionados.
-- the original selling point of "Play how you want!" has been disproven time and again because of all the class and skill imbalances; that really shouldn't have surprised anyone, but if you're going to sell a game on that point, you'd best have a reasonable facsimile of truth in the statement.

So, of course the game has lost players. And people aren't blind to what they see; no shils, no marketing reps posing as forum goers, and no fanbois/fangurls can change what you see and actually experience, and on a good day I see less than 1/20th of the people I saw at release; so, automatically, when some numbnuts claims the game is growing I ignore his/her forum post.

That doesn't mean it's dying. It means ZOS has a very stupid marketing department that created false expectations and a very poor management team that didn't deliver its product on schedule and within budget and thus had to release early.

What does it mean?

It means ZOS has an uphill climb to get the game to the financial state they probably hoped to originally reach. They earned their bad reputation; it's up to them to overcome it. It's not up to us.

If you enjoy the game, then play it. If you don't enjoy the game, then don't play it.

Sums up my thoughts exactly

kevlarto_ESO · December 2014

Dying no settling into it's market customers yes, you don't need millions of subs to be profitable, and when I run around on my lowbie toon and still see a good amount of people in Auridon on lowbies, group up with them I ask is this an alt, all most all of them said they were new players just bought the game, a lot of them from steam.

With the content locusts of today's all mmo's get hit with the ebb and flow, of players going between games until the next update comes out and then they are back for a little while.

I guess time will tell, and it would be shame in my opinion, as a long time mmo player and fan of elder scrolls, ESO is a breath of fresh air, compared to the cookie cutter mmo's offered over the last few years.

If the game does fail there is no one to blame but ZOS for not getting the bugs and issues with the game corrected that was important to the player base and to the game play it's self.

Rosveen · December 2014

It was bleeding out for months. All I have now is anecdotal evidence, but I saw many new players coming to the game after summer - so I don't think it's quite dead yet. I'm sure the Champion system will bring some returning players, so fingers crossed ZOS doesn't massively mess it up and they decide to hang around a bit longer.

kongkim · December 2014

Sindala wrote: »

Blud wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

There're lots of guilds, but guilds that actually do something are either elitist or have cliques of elitists that have their own SO group, few vet dsa groups and they only play with each other.

This happens in every game. It's just human nature and player psychology type. It won't change. Some people play to explore and some to be better than others, etc.

Made worse in this game as you can join 5 guilds, thus making the connection to the guild that thin that its meaningless.
Just have to do it to sell junk on the crappy guild stores because apparently no solo player is clever enough to have a vendor to sell there wares...

Lesson to Zenimax....you join ONE guild and if it suits you it becomes almost family and ties are made that bring you back each day.
You join FIVE guilds and its, 'meh which one today...oh I cant be bothered'. No loyalty.
It's not rocket science I really think most of the bosses there have never even seen an MMO let alone played one.

Noting do so you still can do that.? I love being able to be in more then one guild. One with your near frineds and one who do endgame. And ofc. trade guilds here

SRIBES · December 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

I am dying too. It started the moment i was given birth. Might take 80-100 years but could be less. I dunno. And i don't have one sub

I had a sub once, a meatball marina sub, it was delicious.

But I agree, everything ends eventually, and there is no way of knowing when, until it actually ends.

I personally think ESO is hanging on, it has it's loyal fan base, people come back every so often and are surprised that it has improved (what else was it going to do) and they stay too.

In short we aren't in the danger zone at the minute, but we aren't in the safe zone yet either, sort of half way betwixt the two.

I agree.

GreyBrow · December 2014

Oh, I don't know... If you looked at a person, and you had to ask the question "Is he dying?", common sense would dictate that whatever led you to that path of questioning should indicate that yes, he is indeed dying. You certainly wouldn't look at a person that is thriving and feel the need to ask "Is he dying?"

tl;dr:

If you have to ask if something is dying, it is.

/thread

Idhaleya · December 2014

I am back after three months break.

Izzban · December 2014

AsweetRoll wrote: »

I wanted to bring this topic up. I started a thread like this on tamrielfoundry but it reached the post cap ( http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/is-eso-dying-how-can-we-save-it/ ) Several months ago and wanted to know if people think the game is dying or not.

I mean, it's pretty obvious that ESO had poor reviews, the vast majority of people that played the game in beta/launch quit and said it sucks, and some people just didn't like the game. I can't help but notice on the NA servers that zones feel less populated, PvP is slower, etc. I feel like people are getting upset and starting wishlists, "I want threads", and nerf this buff that/fix this fix that threads non stop. While I agree on fixing/buffing/nerfing(meh) things some of these come out rude and threaten to unsubscribe. I think people have not judged the game properly or are trying to take ZOS as a new company for advantage almost. The population has been decreasing I feel like (Not sure on exact #s).

What do you guys think? I think ESO will eventaully have to change buissness models and make it buy to play and buy expansions. I'm PRO sub fees but I think another business model would appeal to a wider range of players and have some sort of Free 5 day trial thing to make it more appealing on console.

Someone once told me that when new players visit a game forum and see threads with topics such as, "Is XgameX dying!?" they are less inclined to play the game. Have you ever heard that?

Neizir · December 2014

No ESO is not dying. Only the NA megaserver is dying, everywhere on EU is packed with players.

ZOS_UlyssesW · December 2014

Hello, folks.
We have had to remove a few post in this thread that violated our Code of Conduct. We want to remind everyone that we do not allow for trolling, which, by our definition, also includes accusing others of trolling. Thank you for your understanding.

mutharex · December 2014

PBpsy wrote: »

Yes it is killed by...

Damn I have no clue what stupid f2p mmo kills ESO these days.

Well WS is dead and AA is not doing that well, so I dunno either. Not that it matters to the essence of this thread

zaria · December 2014

GreyBrow wrote: »

Oh, I don't know... If you looked at a person, and you had to ask the question "Is he dying?", common sense would dictate that whatever led you to that path of questioning should indicate that yes, he is indeed dying. You certainly wouldn't look at a person that is thriving and feel the need to ask "Is he dying?"

tl;dr:

If you have to ask if something is dying, it is.

/thread

Random forum members claimed WOW was dying bank before mist of pandora.
Anybody can make any clam, it does not have to make any sense.

As for ESO health, its not been the cash cow they probably wished, however it has an pretty stable core of players now and its decent with new players coming in.

Lord Xanhorn · December 2014

I came back after cancelling in my second month. That's better than SWTOR since I did the same thing but never returned. ESO is fun but as many have mentioned, the game needs work.

The whole 3 faction thing looking back was a terrible decision in my opinion. You can only ever be exposed to a third of the game's population since you dont ever see any of the other factions save some large scale PVP. There's no reason they couldn't have had an AvAvA in PVP only but then put the entire game as 1 faction for leveling/PVE. The concept of see all the questing content on 1 character just doesn't jive well with the 3 factions. I quit the first time in VR2 content when it just didnt seem worth it to start all over in a new enemy faction's zone.

Also, not having 1 central city where people can hang out in and communicate really hurts the appearance of a full lively game as well. In other games, the zones themselves might not seem populated but then when you go to the major city and you have a central chat channel bustling, the game seems full of player and life. You just never get that in ESO.

liquid_wolf · December 2014

You are only exposed to potentially a third of the game's population at one time.

I've got 1 guild which lost one hundred people... another guild where 100 different people log in within 48 hours. And then I have my trading guild which keeps itself updated and populated with a lot of people.

I can always find a group for dailies...

Hard to say it is dying from my perspective.

rotaugen454 · December 2014

I don't see a lot of players when grinding high level areas, but the moment I go back to my AD origins, I see a lot of players running around. I'm about to start with my alt, so I'll see how crowded it looks for the DC beginning areas.

Sylvyr · December 2014

I don't think it's dying, it just has pneumonia and needs medicine and time.