The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
REFLECTIVE SCALES NEEDS NERF
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Kromus✭✭✭Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
What do you think how Templar tank feels in such situation? Soon you pop Blazing Shield in order to have at least some chance to survive in mid of action, enemies see 'bulb' lighten up shouting 'shoot me, shoot me', while Scales will send a message 'stop dps for a moment'. Shield can go down in a second, with single shot, and that can't be said for Scales. Pure math says you can spam Scales for a minute or more, and you can't do that with Blazing Shield, not even remotely.
If you talon, cinder, banner someone and he move out of it you can use chains to bring him back in your puddle of doom, but if you are Templar you have no option but to charge, wait for a GCD (Focused charge ability is one (have two more) out of five known abilities with GCD) and than recast Spear shards for example, in hope target not moved already by the time spear animation land. Templar also don't have any roots like DK have.
On top of that, if DK needs to heal himself and have resources to do so, nothing will stop it except cc, but if Templar needs to do it most likely his heal will go to some other guy nearby (happens on regular basis), leaving you with same low health but without magicka invested in heal. Awesome, right?
You don't spam scales for a minute unless you are doing nothing but spaming scales. You will have to do a lot more than spam scales in the center if you want to survive. We have smart healing in the game it will heal the 3 people who need it most and since there is no one else around that is you. There is no DR penalty to it either so you will not have to wait for execute levels of health to get the most efficiency out of it. You have the strongest heals in the game. Yeah you don't have a root but you do have ranged damagers which we do not.
You are missing the point. What use of strongest heals in the game Templar have if playing as a tank? In order to achieve label of strongest heals in the game you should place several healing abilities on your bar and back it up with a lot of magicka and spell power, but if you play as tank you don't have such luxury since you want/need to make use of defensive abilities, otherwise you are not really a tank, just more endurable caster. Same goes for range damage, unless you are building a range tank which only few people would even consider playing.
"We have smart healing in the game it will heal the 3 people who need it most and since there is no one else around that is you."
True, but ONLY when there is no ally around you, and this is supposed to be massive pvp game, not dueling. When there is at least 1 ally near who have 1% less hp than you, heal will go to him/her and not you, while at same time DK tank will always heal himself. To put that into perspective... you as templar tank have 5% health and ally near you (that you might not even see or know) have 4% for example, you struggle to cast heal in order not to die and your heal goes to... well, not you and poof you die. Who the hell with 5% hp would want to heal some other random guy instead himself? Easiest fix for that would be making 'Honor the Dead' morph self-heal only since its single target heal already.
Regarding reflective scales and blazing shield spam... Point is that if you are surrounded by 5 players who only use range abilities, as a DK you don't really have a problem with keeping scales up for some time, while at same time Blazing shield would quickly drain your magicka and leave you with no resources to keep going. That would even be fine in case Templars are to be superior in melee tanking, but we all know that's not the case, and you get shorter stick in both melee and range tanking.
This is the case for the DK too. He is tanking everything in the zerg and also has to heal and do damage while maintaining a 4s defense. If you are the only one pushed in there are not 3 people to steal your heals and if you complain shield isn't enough and you can't handle it you are likely to be the one smart healing chooses.
Explain to me how a DK can spam RS and keep it up but when you spam Blazing shield it drains you magicka and you have no resources when blazing shield is a cheaper cast....
You don't even have to charge in to do class damage, we actually do.
You are still missing the point...
"This is the case for the DK too. He is tanking everything in the zerg and also has to heal and do damage while maintaining a 4s defense."
In such situation when DK want/need to heal himself it will heal himself EVERY time if it have resources, and not cc'ed, no matter hows the life of surrounding allies, but put templar tank in exactly the same situation and EVERY heal will go to other players if those players have less hp than tanking templar. Only exception is if there is no ally nearby to steal the heal, but if you are alone fighting zerg you are to die anyway, as no single player should be able to outlive zerg. How hard is to understand the problem that Templar don't have reliable self-heal in pvp?
"Explain to me how a DK can spam RS and keep it up but when you spam Blazing shield it drains you magicka and you have no resources when blazing shield is a cheaper cast...."
Very easy. Reflective Scales is just a bit more expensive (~15%) than Blazing Shield, always last for 4 seconds and for that duration it will reflect EVERY projectile no matter how hard or frequent projectile hits it. On other side, Blazing Shield is depletable and it will hold the incoming damage for 30% of your hp. That would be 1200-1300 of incoming damage for top geared/buffed templars with 4k hp, which means if one arrow hits you for 1700 damage, blazing shield would prevent 1200 and 500 would actually damage you, and shield is down. To put that into actual scene...
5 ranged hits DK/Templar tanks for 500 damage per shot, every second for 4 seconds, which in total would be 10.000 incoming damage. ...
DK = Reflective scale up (single cast), all of the 10000 damage mitigated
Templar =
1st second:
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500)...
2nd second:
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500)...
3rd second:
Arrow (-500),
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
4th second:
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200)
Arrow (-500)
Summary:
DK = Single cast Reflective Scales (49 magicka), 10.000 damage mitigated, returned 12.000 damage to attackers
Templar = 6 x Blazing shield cast (6 x 42 magicka = 252 magicka), 8.500 damage mitigated, soaked 1500 damage (more than 1/3 of health pool), returned 0 damage to attacker (out of range).
That scenario even includes instant reactions from Templar which is not possible in reality due to human response time and lag. After 3 such cycles (12 seconds) Templar is dead and DK still standing with full resources, laughing and dancing to attackers who shot themselves to death in the process.
"You don't even have to charge in to do class damage, we actually do."
I stated in previous post that we are discussing about melee templar tank, as I'm not interested in range tank at all, so, yes I do have to charge in order to use my melee damager, and when I do it I'm actually stunning myself for 1+ second due to GCD, as mentioned in previous post.
Edited by Kromus on December 7, 2014 7:39PM2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
What do you think how Templar tank feels in such situation? Soon you pop Blazing Shield in order to have at least some chance to survive in mid of action, enemies see 'bulb' lighten up shouting 'shoot me, shoot me', while Scales will send a message 'stop dps for a moment'. Shield can go down in a second, with single shot, and that can't be said for Scales. Pure math says you can spam Scales for a minute or more, and you can't do that with Blazing Shield, not even remotely.
If you talon, cinder, banner someone and he move out of it you can use chains to bring him back in your puddle of doom, but if you are Templar you have no option but to charge, wait for a GCD (Focused charge ability is one (have two more) out of five known abilities with GCD) and than recast Spear shards for example, in hope target not moved already by the time spear animation land. Templar also don't have any roots like DK have.
On top of that, if DK needs to heal himself and have resources to do so, nothing will stop it except cc, but if Templar needs to do it most likely his heal will go to some other guy nearby (happens on regular basis), leaving you with same low health but without magicka invested in heal. Awesome, right?
You don't spam scales for a minute unless you are doing nothing but spaming scales. You will have to do a lot more than spam scales in the center if you want to survive. We have smart healing in the game it will heal the 3 people who need it most and since there is no one else around that is you. There is no DR penalty to it either so you will not have to wait for execute levels of health to get the most efficiency out of it. You have the strongest heals in the game. Yeah you don't have a root but you do have ranged damagers which we do not.
You are missing the point. What use of strongest heals in the game Templar have if playing as a tank? In order to achieve label of strongest heals in the game you should place several healing abilities on your bar and back it up with a lot of magicka and spell power, but if you play as tank you don't have such luxury since you want/need to make use of defensive abilities, otherwise you are not really a tank, just more endurable caster. Same goes for range damage, unless you are building a range tank which only few people would even consider playing.
"We have smart healing in the game it will heal the 3 people who need it most and since there is no one else around that is you."
True, but ONLY when there is no ally around you, and this is supposed to be massive pvp game, not dueling. When there is at least 1 ally near who have 1% less hp than you, heal will go to him/her and not you, while at same time DK tank will always heal himself. To put that into perspective... you as templar tank have 5% health and ally near you (that you might not even see or know) have 4% for example, you struggle to cast heal in order not to die and your heal goes to... well, not you and poof you die. Who the hell with 5% hp would want to heal some other random guy instead himself? Easiest fix for that would be making 'Honor the Dead' morph self-heal only since its single target heal already.
Regarding reflective scales and blazing shield spam... Point is that if you are surrounded by 5 players who only use range abilities, as a DK you don't really have a problem with keeping scales up for some time, while at same time Blazing shield would quickly drain your magicka and leave you with no resources to keep going. That would even be fine in case Templars are to be superior in melee tanking, but we all know that's not the case, and you get shorter stick in both melee and range tanking.
This is the case for the DK too. He is tanking everything in the zerg and also has to heal and do damage while maintaining a 4s defense. If you are the only one pushed in there are not 3 people to steal your heals and if you complain shield isn't enough and you can't handle it you are likely to be the one smart healing chooses.
Explain to me how a DK can spam RS and keep it up but when you spam Blazing shield it drains you magicka and you have no resources when blazing shield is a cheaper cast....
You don't even have to charge in to do class damage, we actually do.
You are still missing the point...
"This is the case for the DK too. He is tanking everything in the zerg and also has to heal and do damage while maintaining a 4s defense."
In such situation when DK want/need to heal himself it will heal himself EVERY time if it have resources, and not cc'ed, no matter hows the life of surrounding allies, but put templar tank in exactly the same situation and EVERY heal will go to other players if those players have less hp than tanking templar. Only exception is if there is no ally nearby to steal the heal, but if you are alone fighting zerg you are to die anyway, as no single player should be able to outlive zerg. How hard is to understand the problem that Templar don't have reliable self-heal in pvp?
"Explain to me how a DK can spam RS and keep it up but when you spam Blazing shield it drains you magicka and you have no resources when blazing shield is a cheaper cast...."
Very easy. Reflective Scales is just a bit more expensive (~15%) than Blazing Shield, always last for 4 seconds and for that duration it will reflect EVERY projectile no matter how hard or frequent projectile hits it. On other side, Blazing Shield is depletable and it will hold the incoming damage for 30% of your hp. That would be 1200-1300 of incoming damage for top geared/buffed templars with 4k hp, which means if one arrow hits you for 1700 damage, blazing shield would prevent 1200 and 500 would actually damage you, and shield is down. To put that into actual scene...
5 ranged hits DK/Templar tanks for 500 damage per shot, every second for 4 seconds, which in total would be 10.000 incoming damage. ...
DK = Reflective scale up (single cast), all of the 10000 damage mitigated
Templar =
1st second:
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500)...
2nd second:
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500)...
3rd second:
Arrow (-500),
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
4th second:
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200)
Arrow (-500)
Summary:
DK = Single cast Reflective Scales (49 magicka), 10.000 damage mitigated, returned 12.000 damage to attackers
Templar = 6 x Blazing shield cast (6 x 42 magicka = 252 magicka), 8.500 damage mitigated, soaked 1500 damage (more than 1/3 of health pool), returned 0 damage to attacker (out of range).
That scenario even includes instant reactions from Templar which is not possible in reality due to human response time and lag. After 3 such cycles (12 seconds) Templar is dead and DK still standing with full resources, laughing and dancing to attackers who shot themselves to death in the process.
"You don't even have to charge in to do class damage, we actually do."
I stated in previous post that we are discussing about melee templar tank, as I'm not interested in range tank at all, so, yes I do have to charge in order to use my melee damager, and when I do it I'm actually stunning myself for 1+ second due to GCD, as mentioned in previous post.
It takes exactly 1 bow using DK to completely negate reflective scales of another DK using it and tanking large numbers. One...that's it...and that DK will die 100% of the time. In fact the I actively seek out those Wings when i'm on my DK because its a guaranteed kill every single time in a zerg fight
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
Leeric✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.
Finally lol1 -
Kromus✭✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.
Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.
If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.
When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.
What do you think how Templar tank feels in such situation? Soon you pop Blazing Shield in order to have at least some chance to survive in mid of action, enemies see 'bulb' lighten up shouting 'shoot me, shoot me', while Scales will send a message 'stop dps for a moment'. Shield can go down in a second, with single shot, and that can't be said for Scales. Pure math says you can spam Scales for a minute or more, and you can't do that with Blazing Shield, not even remotely.
If you talon, cinder, banner someone and he move out of it you can use chains to bring him back in your puddle of doom, but if you are Templar you have no option but to charge, wait for a GCD (Focused charge ability is one (have two more) out of five known abilities with GCD) and than recast Spear shards for example, in hope target not moved already by the time spear animation land. Templar also don't have any roots like DK have.
On top of that, if DK needs to heal himself and have resources to do so, nothing will stop it except cc, but if Templar needs to do it most likely his heal will go to some other guy nearby (happens on regular basis), leaving you with same low health but without magicka invested in heal. Awesome, right?
You don't spam scales for a minute unless you are doing nothing but spaming scales. You will have to do a lot more than spam scales in the center if you want to survive. We have smart healing in the game it will heal the 3 people who need it most and since there is no one else around that is you. There is no DR penalty to it either so you will not have to wait for execute levels of health to get the most efficiency out of it. You have the strongest heals in the game. Yeah you don't have a root but you do have ranged damagers which we do not.
You are missing the point. What use of strongest heals in the game Templar have if playing as a tank? In order to achieve label of strongest heals in the game you should place several healing abilities on your bar and back it up with a lot of magicka and spell power, but if you play as tank you don't have such luxury since you want/need to make use of defensive abilities, otherwise you are not really a tank, just more endurable caster. Same goes for range damage, unless you are building a range tank which only few people would even consider playing.
"We have smart healing in the game it will heal the 3 people who need it most and since there is no one else around that is you."
True, but ONLY when there is no ally around you, and this is supposed to be massive pvp game, not dueling. When there is at least 1 ally near who have 1% less hp than you, heal will go to him/her and not you, while at same time DK tank will always heal himself. To put that into perspective... you as templar tank have 5% health and ally near you (that you might not even see or know) have 4% for example, you struggle to cast heal in order not to die and your heal goes to... well, not you and poof you die. Who the hell with 5% hp would want to heal some other random guy instead himself? Easiest fix for that would be making 'Honor the Dead' morph self-heal only since its single target heal already.
Regarding reflective scales and blazing shield spam... Point is that if you are surrounded by 5 players who only use range abilities, as a DK you don't really have a problem with keeping scales up for some time, while at same time Blazing shield would quickly drain your magicka and leave you with no resources to keep going. That would even be fine in case Templars are to be superior in melee tanking, but we all know that's not the case, and you get shorter stick in both melee and range tanking.
This is the case for the DK too. He is tanking everything in the zerg and also has to heal and do damage while maintaining a 4s defense. If you are the only one pushed in there are not 3 people to steal your heals and if you complain shield isn't enough and you can't handle it you are likely to be the one smart healing chooses.
Explain to me how a DK can spam RS and keep it up but when you spam Blazing shield it drains you magicka and you have no resources when blazing shield is a cheaper cast....
You don't even have to charge in to do class damage, we actually do.
You are still missing the point...
"This is the case for the DK too. He is tanking everything in the zerg and also has to heal and do damage while maintaining a 4s defense."
In such situation when DK want/need to heal himself it will heal himself EVERY time if it have resources, and not cc'ed, no matter hows the life of surrounding allies, but put templar tank in exactly the same situation and EVERY heal will go to other players if those players have less hp than tanking templar. Only exception is if there is no ally nearby to steal the heal, but if you are alone fighting zerg you are to die anyway, as no single player should be able to outlive zerg. How hard is to understand the problem that Templar don't have reliable self-heal in pvp?
"Explain to me how a DK can spam RS and keep it up but when you spam Blazing shield it drains you magicka and you have no resources when blazing shield is a cheaper cast...."
Very easy. Reflective Scales is just a bit more expensive (~15%) than Blazing Shield, always last for 4 seconds and for that duration it will reflect EVERY projectile no matter how hard or frequent projectile hits it. On other side, Blazing Shield is depletable and it will hold the incoming damage for 30% of your hp. That would be 1200-1300 of incoming damage for top geared/buffed templars with 4k hp, which means if one arrow hits you for 1700 damage, blazing shield would prevent 1200 and 500 would actually damage you, and shield is down. To put that into actual scene...
5 ranged hits DK/Templar tanks for 500 damage per shot, every second for 4 seconds, which in total would be 10.000 incoming damage. ...
DK = Reflective scale up (single cast), all of the 10000 damage mitigated
Templar =
1st second:
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500)...
2nd second:
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500)...
3rd second:
Arrow (-500),
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
4th second:
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
Arrow (-500),
shield down (lost 300 hp),
shield up (+1200)
Arrow (-500)
Summary:
DK = Single cast Reflective Scales (49 magicka), 10.000 damage mitigated, returned 12.000 damage to attackers
Templar = 6 x Blazing shield cast (6 x 42 magicka = 252 magicka), 8.500 damage mitigated, soaked 1500 damage (more than 1/3 of health pool), returned 0 damage to attacker (out of range).
That scenario even includes instant reactions from Templar which is not possible in reality due to human response time and lag. After 3 such cycles (12 seconds) Templar is dead and DK still standing with full resources, laughing and dancing to attackers who shot themselves to death in the process.
"You don't even have to charge in to do class damage, we actually do."
I stated in previous post that we are discussing about melee templar tank, as I'm not interested in range tank at all, so, yes I do have to charge in order to use my melee damager, and when I do it I'm actually stunning myself for 1+ second due to GCD, as mentioned in previous post.
It takes exactly 1 bow using DK to completely negate reflective scales of another DK using it and tanking large numbers. One...that's it...and that DK will die 100% of the time. In fact the I actively seek out those Wings when i'm on my DK because its a guaranteed kill every single time in a zerg fight
What that has to do with what we were talking about? We were comparing effectiveness of Reflecting Scales and Blazing Shield, not is it possible to kill a DK and how. Every class/build is killable.0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
DK's can pop an invisibility/speed/unstoppable potion if they want to escape. I know this doesn't fit in with the 'I compare DK class skills with Sorc/NB class and weapons skills', but that's not my problem.xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
This *** arguments keeps getting repeated over and over. The reason Sorcs and NBs have escape skills is because both of them lack any kind of meaningful healing skills. Both DKs and TPs do have such skills, hence they don't have any escape skills.If the Scales gets nerfed DKs will get owned to easy, the reason why DKs need the Scales is because we have no ''escapes'' while NBs and Sorcs can just ''dissapear'' I don't know about Templars tho, but they have some hardcore shields which let them survive. But yea Scales should not get nerfed, in that case we would need a replacement...
Sorcs have really good shields, which work well with Restro Staffs healing Ward for Super healing.
Nightblades, you can spam stuff like funnel health, or do what i do and throw undaunted bastion on with restro staff and when ya get low, inner fire someone, then healing ward...its 2k shielding and will usually heal you for 900+
Edited by Lava_Croft on December 7, 2014 8:28PM1 -
cozmon3c_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Dk's will be fine with this RS nerf. remeber back in the begining of the game when it was just Green Dragons Blood spam. well guess what that wasnt nerfed and is still OP as hell. stop whining dk's.Guild UMBRA Chapter Lead
~Leper Si -V14 Sorcerer~
Youtube Channel - Leper
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCozmon3c/videos3 -
Kromus✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
DK's can pop an invisibility/speed/unstoppable potion if they want to escape. I know this doesn't fit in with the 'I compare DK class skills with Sorc/NB class and weapons skills', but that's not my problem.xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
This *** arguments keeps getting repeated over and over. The reason Sorcs and NBs have escape skills is because both of them lack any kind of meaningful healing skills. Both DKs and TPs do have such skills, hence they don't have any escape skills.If the Scales gets nerfed DKs will get owned to easy, the reason why DKs need the Scales is because we have no ''escapes'' while NBs and Sorcs can just ''dissapear'' I don't know about Templars tho, but they have some hardcore shields which let them survive. But yea Scales should not get nerfed, in that case we would need a replacement...
Sorcs have really good shields, which work well with Restro Staffs healing Ward for Super healing.
Nightblades, you can spam stuff like funnel health, or do what i do and throw undaunted bastion on with restro staff and when ya get low, inner fire someone, then healing ward...its 2k shielding and will usually heal you for 900+
Don't forget healing sphere
0 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How i see people complaining about scales
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paD0y6uFu4w&feature=youtu.be 6 -
MagnusRex✭✭✭^so true:oMagnus Rex Magicka Dragonknight DC EU
Magnus Rekt U Magicka Dragonknight EP EU
KiteSquad | Fero Caedis1 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
What other people? We are talking about diving into the zerg...Ok lets say it does miss you and there are strangely 3 other people there, pop it again and done. It doesn't have a DR like GDB does where you have to wait till execute levels of hp to use it efficiently.
In such situation when DK want/need to heal himself it will heal himself EVERY time if it have resources, and not cc'ed, no matter hows the life of surrounding allies, but put templar tank in exactly the same situation and EVERY heal will go to other players if those players have less hp than tanking templar. Only exception is if there is no ally nearby to steal the heal, but if you are alone fighting zerg you are to die anyway, as no single player should be able to outlive zerg. How hard is to understand the problem that Templar don't have reliable self-heal in pvp?
No it wont. It's getting nerfed to 4 projectiles. Did you really just do all that math and not know it's getting nerfed?... Not that it matters but you left out the calculations for the way the shield increases based on nearby players and the fact that you can rely on the shield entirely for significant damage rather than having to combine it with other damage. DK does damage to unknown ranged player but they do eventually quit when they are about to die, the ones who may die are the ones in melee range and the dk has to use damagers and RS for that along with inefficient levels of GDB.Very easy. Reflective Scales is just a bit more expensive (~15%) than Blazing Shield, always last for 4 seconds and for that duration it will reflect EVERY projectile no matter how hard or frequent projectile hits it. On other side, Blazing Shield is depletable and it will hold the incoming damage for 30% of your hp. That would be 1200-1300 of incoming damage for top geared/buffed templars with 4k hp, which means if one arrow hits you for 1700 damage, blazing shield would prevent 1200 and 500 would actually damage you, and shield is down. To put that into actual scene..."You don't even have to charge in to do class damage, we actually do."
I stated in previous post that we are discussing about melee templar tank, as I'm not interested in range tank at all, so, yes I do have to charge in order to use my melee damager, and when I do it I'm actually stunning myself for 1+ second due to GCD, as mentioned in previous post.
Yeah the difference here is you MAY charge in to use melee class damagers or you may not and use ranged class damagers. If you are a DK there is no choice, it's either melee and class damagers or ranged and no class damagers. So yeah we actually need something to survive to use our class damagers.
Edited by Armitas on December 8, 2014 5:52PMRetired.
Nord mDK3 -
bertenburnyb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭a. it didn't need a nerf, it really is a ltp issue, it only lasts 4sec and its the only "ranged" ability they have, dk's are nerfed enough already that I'm playing my templar mostly in pvp now
b. enough already crybabys, you've won again with your nerfing crys, and DK gets nerfed... again... (instead of buffing broken and UP stuff)
c. ow wait, UP stuff already got buffed, looking at you snipesnipesnipesnipers
conclusion: again total BSEdited by bertenburnyb16_ESO on December 8, 2014 4:46PMHaze Ramoran Dunmer Dragonknight Tank/Dps – Smoked-Da-Herb Saxheel Templar Tank/Healer
Red Diamond, Protect us 'til the end (EU EP Thorn)4 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
You mean you play your Templar in PvP because you refuse to l2p with your DK? OK then.bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »a. it didn't need a nerf, it really is a ltp issue, it only lasts 4sec and its the only "ranged" ability they have, dk's are nerfed enough already that I'm playing my templar mostly in pvp now
b. enough already crybabys, you've won again with your nerfing crys, and DK gets nerfed... again... (instead of buffing broken and UP stuff)
c. ow wait, UP stuff already got buffed, looking at you snipesnipesnipesnipers
conclusion: again total BS
5 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
DK's can pop an invisibility/speed/unstoppable potion if they want to escape. I know this doesn't fit in with the 'I compare DK class skills with Sorc/NB class and weapons skills', but that's not my problem.xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
This *** arguments keeps getting repeated over and over. The reason Sorcs and NBs have escape skills is because both of them lack any kind of meaningful healing skills. Both DKs and TPs do have such skills, hence they don't have any escape skills.If the Scales gets nerfed DKs will get owned to easy, the reason why DKs need the Scales is because we have no ''escapes'' while NBs and Sorcs can just ''dissapear'' I don't know about Templars tho, but they have some hardcore shields which let them survive. But yea Scales should not get nerfed, in that case we would need a replacement...
Sorcs have really good shields, which work well with Restro Staffs healing Ward for Super healing.
Nightblades, you can spam stuff like funnel health, or do what i do and throw undaunted bastion on with restro staff and when ya get low, inner fire someone, then healing ward...its 2k shielding and will usually heal you for 900+
You ever actually try and pop that potion on a DK? Know what happens? One of your 10 or so dots that the DK has instantly pops you out of stealth.
Now on my NB, that pot is awesome...https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »a. it didn't need a nerf, it really is a ltp issue, it only lasts 4sec and its the only "ranged" ability they have, dk's are nerfed enough already that I'm playing my templar mostly in pvp now
b. enough already crybabys, you've won again with your nerfing crys, and DK gets nerfed... again... (instead of buffing broken and UP stuff)
c. ow wait, UP stuff already got buffed, looking at you snipesnipesnipesnipers
conclusion: again total BS
it ONLY last 4 seconds until it is refreshed ROFL! get out of here. Yea you are right, it is a L2P issue. DK will have to L2P like the rest of us do EVERY time a DK says L2P lol2 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭How i see people complaining about scaleshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paD0y6uFu4w&feature=youtu.be
Very true.0 -
Trottz✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »How i see people complaining about scaleshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paD0y6uFu4w&feature=youtu.be
Very true.
no it's not.
but this kind of wishful thinking suits my prejudices towards Dragonknights just perfect.
Trist'is and Krahl, a.D.
“Show me a mortal who is not pursued, and I’ll show you a corpse. Every hunter is hunted, every mind that knows itself has stalkers. We drive and are driven. The unknown pursues the ignorant, the truth assails every scholar wise enough to know his ignorance, for that is the meaning of unknowable truths.”3 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.
Do that on live and im sure youll get many canceled subscriptions.
After all these dk nerfs and other classes buffs do you really think we gonna sit here and take this? and the lag? and the crashes?
Nop,definitely a bad move,weve had enough of this and fed up allready.
Time to say no
3 -
Sanct16✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How i see people complaining about scaleshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paD0y6uFu4w&feature=youtu.be
Yep. Its obviously! REFLECTIVE SCALES NEEDS NERF.- EU - Raid Leader of Banana Zerg Squad
AD | AR 50 | Sanct Fir'eheal | ex Mana DK @31.10.2015
EP | AR 50 | Sanctosaurus | Mana NB
AD | AR 44 | rekt ya | Mana NB
AD | AR 41 | Sanct Thunderstorm | Mana Sorc
EP | AR 36 | S'na'ct | Mana NB {NA}
AD | AR 29 | Captain Full Fist| Stam DK
AD | AR 29 | Sanct The Dark Phoenix| Stam Sorc
EP | AR 16 | Horny Sanct | Stam Warden
EP | AR 16 | Sánct Bánáná Sláyér | Mana DK
DC | AR 13 | ad worst faction eu | Stam Sorc
DC | AR 13 | Lagendary Sanct | Mana NB
>320.000.000 AP0 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »How i see people complaining about scaleshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paD0y6uFu4w&feature=youtu.be
Very true.
no it's not.
but this kind of wishful thinking suits my prejudices towards Dragonknights just perfect.
Even with video proof...3 -
Spangla✭✭✭✭ZOS
Cripple - Why is this being reflected its a DOT. It most certainly is not a projectile.
Funnel Health - "Funnels Health FROM the Target" Doesnt shoot anything at it, takes health FROM why is this being reflected?
Just because? Its dk skill so this is fine?2 -
Sanct16✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Every ranged single target spell that can be blocked is counted as a projectile.
Every ranged magicka based instant damage ability (I think) is blockable.
Edited by Sanct16 on December 9, 2014 8:43AM- EU - Raid Leader of Banana Zerg Squad
AD | AR 50 | Sanct Fir'eheal | ex Mana DK @31.10.2015
EP | AR 50 | Sanctosaurus | Mana NB
AD | AR 44 | rekt ya | Mana NB
AD | AR 41 | Sanct Thunderstorm | Mana Sorc
EP | AR 36 | S'na'ct | Mana NB {NA}
AD | AR 29 | Captain Full Fist| Stam DK
AD | AR 29 | Sanct The Dark Phoenix| Stam Sorc
EP | AR 16 | Horny Sanct | Stam Warden
EP | AR 16 | Sánct Bánáná Sláyér | Mana DK
DC | AR 13 | ad worst faction eu | Stam Sorc
DC | AR 13 | Lagendary Sanct | Mana NB
>320.000.000 AP1 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoR.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -1 -
stylepolice✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »...snip...
The hard part is balancing....
one-one ranged (spell/bow)
aoe ranged (spell/bow)
one-one melee (spell/weapon)
pb-aoe (spell/weapon)
... I will see where we are with 1.6 before I comment further.
Turns out that balancing realms by giving everyone access to the same classes is not working, no surprise there.
As a game system designer you dont want true balance, but rather a rock/paper/scissors situation. With lack of clear roles and total spec freedom this will get really hard to pull off.
Add to this the tendency of game designers to try and make people play the game like they designed it, instead of designing the game for real people playing it.
Example: If you make traveling to the fight harder - some will do it, but part of the playerbase will rather camp their own keeps for hours.
Some people do not want to play in groups or large raids - if you make content only available to groups, then those players will ignore it - and if it is a requirement to stay competitive in PvP, some of those players will just leave the game and do something else (eg DAoC-TOA) .2 -
stylepolice✭✭✭This is something that my whole guild hates about ESO... the healing is terrible in ESO. Smart healing works against our healers so much when randoms are around us.
It's made him want to quit like every week.
I know several people who played dedicated healers for years in very successful pvp-groups - and who quit the game because they couldn't keep their group alive and they could do nothing to improve this.
We play PvP against real people because the AI is too damn dumb - whoever thought that handing over the keep-alive function of PvP to exactly that same Royal Dumbness was a good idea?2 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭ZOS
Cripple - Why is this being reflected its a DOT. It most certainly is not a projectile.
Funnel Health - "Funnels Health FROM the Target" Doesnt shoot anything at it, takes health FROM why is this being reflected?
Just because? Its dk skill so this is fine?
IF i say..IF you look at the screen when you cast a projectile leaves fromy you and goes to the target. Something that does not happen with sorcs curse and thunder.
l2p,cry less and you might avoid your destiny: constantly-buffed-crying-Nightblades and all classes nubsniping alloverEdited by Nicko_Lps on December 10, 2014 6:45AM2 -
Kromus✭✭✭In such situation when DK want/need to heal himself it will heal himself EVERY time if it have resources, and not cc'ed, no matter hows the life of surrounding allies, but put templar tank in exactly the same situation and EVERY heal will go to other players if those players have less hp than tanking templar. Only exception is if there is no ally nearby to steal the heal, but if you are alone fighting zerg you are to die anyway, as no single player should be able to outlive zerg. How hard is to understand the problem that Templar don't have reliable self-heal in pvp?
What other people? We are talking about diving into the zerg...Ok lets say it does miss you and there are strangely 3 other people there, pop it again and done. It doesn't have a DR like GDB does where you have to wait till execute levels of hp to use it efficiently.Very easy. Reflective Scales is just a bit more expensive (~15%) than Blazing Shield, always last for 4 seconds and for that duration it will reflect EVERY projectile no matter how hard or frequent projectile hits it. On other side, Blazing Shield is depletable and it will hold the incoming damage for 30% of your hp. That would be 1200-1300 of incoming damage for top geared/buffed templars with 4k hp, which means if one arrow hits you for 1700 damage, blazing shield would prevent 1200 and 500 would actually damage you, and shield is down. To put that into actual scene...
No it wont. It's getting nerfed to 4 projectiles. Did you really just do all that math and not know it's getting nerfed?... Not that it matters but you left out the calculations for the way the shield increases based on nearby players and the fact that you can rely on the shield entirely for significant damage rather than having to combine it with other damage. DK does damage to unknown ranged player but they do eventually quit when they are about to die, the ones who may die are the ones in melee range and the dk has to use damagers and RS for that along with inefficient levels of GDB."You don't even have to charge in to do class damage, we actually do."
I stated in previous post that we are discussing about melee templar tank, as I'm not interested in range tank at all, so, yes I do have to charge in order to use my melee damager, and when I do it I'm actually stunning myself for 1+ second due to GCD, as mentioned in previous post.
Yeah the difference here is you MAY charge in to use melee class damagers or you may not and use ranged class damagers. If you are a DK there is no choice, it's either melee and class damagers or ranged and no class damagers. So yeah we actually need something to survive to use our class damagers.
"What other people? We are talking about diving into the zerg...Ok lets say it does miss you and there are strangely 3 other people there, pop it again and done. It doesn't have a DR like GDB does where you have to wait till execute levels of hp to use it efficiently."
Nop, you are talking about diving solo into zerg and I realized that in your latest post, so not sure what's the point of this discussion if you are here to defend such state of play. No lone player should be able to fight zerg and live to talk about it after, unless he ran away on time or its emperor facing noobs. I'm talking about normal pvp where similar sized groups would face each other. You are talking about "execute levels of hp to use it efficiently" and I'm talking on getting at least one heal I cast for myself and not for all to go to some random players nearby when I'm at ~5% hp.
"No it wont. It's getting nerfed to 4 projectiles. Did you really just do all that math and not know it's getting nerfed?... Not that it matters but you left out the calculations for the way the shield increases based on nearby players and the fact that you can rely on the shield entirely for significant damage rather than having to combine it with other damage. DK does damage to unknown ranged player but they do eventually quit when they are about to die, the ones who may die are the ones in melee range and the dk has to use damagers and RS for that along with inefficient levels of GDB."
Nop, I did math before official info about nerf in 1.6 but it doesn't matter for discussion anyway as we are talking about current state of game and not what could be in 1.6 or later.
Nop, I did not left out shield strength increase with nearby player as we are talking about getting hammered by ranged players which means they would be out of Blazing Shield range to take any damage from it. Only thing I forgot to note is usage of base magicka cost for abilities and not actual at v14, since I did not have access to game at the moment to check, but that changes nothing in what I'm trying to explain. Regarding your statement how ranged players would eventually quit hitting you before they would kill themselves with RS, please don't mix theorycraft with what random player might do or not do in real situation. Using same logic, what's stopping players to move away from Blazing Shield? They can move away from its radius and keep shooting at me, while for RS they need to stop shooting at all, because RS don't have radius and complies only to range of attacking ability, right? Btw, Etaniel posted funny video above showing opposite of what you are saying.
"Yeah the difference here is you MAY charge in to use melee class damagers or you may not and use ranged class damagers. If you are a DK there is no choice, it's either melee and class damagers or ranged and no class damagers. So yeah we actually need something to survive to use our class damagers."
As I already stated twice, we are talking about melee tank archetype who would be in first line of fight, and also you don't need to charge, you can use Fiery Grip. What you are saying would be strong point in case DK don't have any option in game for ranged attacks while Templar do, but that is not the case as you can also combine class and weapon skills like most people do (including Templar ofc). You last sentence... don't we all need to be alive in order to do any kind of damage, no matter from what skill tree damaging ability comes from?Edited by Kromus on December 10, 2014 1:15PM0
