REFLECTIVE SCALES NEEDS NERF

Gargragrond · December 2014

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

If I was wearing heavy I could cast reflect and only have to wait for 2-3 seconds of down time before the cost goes back to it's original. That's better than having to cast it 2-3 times to reflect the same amount of projectiles.

I guess it comes down to preference and play style. IF I was in heavy or medium I would pick the bolt escape treatment over the 4 projectile limit. Just my opinion though

That might be a bit better against huge zergs, but would make it much worse against thinking opponents. With BE-style cost increase, casting the scales would instantly signal the opponent that there's a window of opportunity coming up when you can cast any ranged spells without fear of reflect. No way you could ever afford the double cost with heavy or medium.

At the moment, they work quite well as a deterrent - thinking people don't shoot you too much if they know you can instantly put the scales up which means that many times you don't even need to use them, which is perfectly fine situation.

Lava_Croft · December 2014

Gargragrond wrote: »

fear

Huhu, Fear!

Soulac · December 2014

Fear is love. Fear is life.

Lava_Croft · December 2014

Soulac wrote: »

Fear is love. Fear is life.

If Fear was a woman, I'd want it as my wife.

Gargragrond · December 2014

Nothing to fear but the fear itself, mused Jenkins, the old nb skill designer.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · December 2014

What this game needs is more counters, not more nerfs.

The reason Scales was so powerful is there were very few ways to counter it - especially for ranged casters like sorcs who have very few abilities to choose from that aren't projectiles or complete duds in PvP.

Instead of singular nerfs, I would have preferred a holistic change that favors more nuanced gameplay.

This is what I would have done.

Make the base skill reflect ALL projectiles 3 times (why 3 not 4? See harness magicka section below)
Morph 1: Reflects ONLY spell projectiles unlimited times..
Morph 2: Reflect ONLY weapon projectiles unlimited times.
Make the aura that surrounds you a different color per morph.

This gives DK's a ton of build options both in PvP and PvE. It also gives other classes ways to counter. You can look at the aura and determine what skills you should use. Some DKs would definitely choose the base skill with no morph, but again, that's situational.

But this is not all. There are a few other changes that need to be made.

Harness Magicka

Increase the amount of times harness magicka returns magicka to be on par with reflect. Harness was nerfed to return only 3 times. If DKs can reflect 4 times, then harness should return 4 times. It was a good counter and should trade evenly.
Harness should have an effect added that removes CC effects from reflected spells. You still take damage but at least you don't get knocked down from your own spell.

But what about Stamina users? Well evasion has needed a revamp for a long time.

Evasion

Evasion should also remove CC on reflected attacks as an added effect.
One of the morphs of evasion should return stamina for # of attacks dodged.

This would make it as useful to stamina users as harness is to magicka users. This is what they should have done instead of nerfing harness in the first place. More options instead of more nerfs.

This would go a long way to making gameplay require more skill and counters instead of just mashing buttons and holding block.

The missing sorc skill

Sorcs still need a major skill revamp to be able to counter DKs. Something like a ranged dispel on target skill would be perfect. This would force DKs running reflect to trade magicka with sorcs if they wanted to keep scales and other buffs up. If this skill could dispel buffs on monsters as well it would be useful in PvE situations as well. (e.g. dispelling rune focus on Menders or other monsters). Note that I am not asking for another negate skill. A dispel acts like an offensive purge that removes enemy buffs. Negate is a silence AND a dispel.

More discussion of fixes for sorc skills in the class skills forum.

TequilaFire · December 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

Well if DKs are the majority class as some claim, you just [snip] off the majority of us.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

prototypefb · December 2014

TequilaFire wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

Well if DKs are the majority class as some claim, you just [snip] off the majority of us.

this skill alone might be responsible for tens of thousands of people leaving game prematurely, i see this as long awaited step into balanced pvp/pve direction.
now when classes will be more balanced, next step is weapon balance, racials etc, all leading to more fun for every1, not just DKs.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

TequilaFire · December 2014

Once again PvP messes with PvE.

Nihil · December 2014

TequilaFire wrote: »

Once again PvP messes with PvE.

It could also be intended this way for PVE as well... They have said in the past that players weren't meant to be tanking every enemy, and this follows that philosophy. Having a skill that reflects infinite amount of projectiles could make making new content more difficult to balance ( or make the skill obsolete in pve as they will just use more non reflectable attacks).

stylepolice · December 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

<sarcasm>Great idea - after you half-broke PvP against all those ranged bow users it is only straight-forward to break it completely by removing the only useful counter to mindlessly-spamming-poison-arrow!</sarcasm>

You really might want to think this through a bit more, because what you propose means ranged bow-dps will get even stronger then it is now. What will be the result? Bow-users will camp their own ressources and keeps where they are protected on the wall (no pull down as in the great beginning days of this game, which you nerfed in a knee jerk reaction because of people pulling friends _up_). The few players who do not hop on the FOTM-wagon will go to the ressource, look like a pin cushion within 3s, try it 5 more times and then log off to do something else.
The bow users will start watching TV besides their camping and eventually get so bored they also log off.

If you dont believe it from me - read up on DAoC-history, where Mythic was so nice to do all your errors for you already so you could at least try to avoid them.

stylepolice · December 2014

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

The thing you got to ask is what if it had always been a max of 4 projectiles per cast, how would that have changed the way you approached combat compared to how you do now?

And if they said, "update 6, reflective scales now reflect an unlimited amount of projectiles per cast", you'd all be raising your eyebrows and thinking, wow, OP.

I'd kept playing my snipe/resto Sorc either spamming snipe/poison arrow or streak/curse for *** 'n giggles?
(And probably be bored out already by the repetitive gameplay forced onto me because everything else I could try was subpar.) Otoh it would have spared me leveling up a DK because I wanted to play a melee-char in PvP...

Vizier · December 2014

I'm not so sure it needs a nerf, per se. I also don't think it should be both a defensive and offensive spell.

Either keep it the way it is and prevent reflects from auto targeting the caster/striker

Or

Make scales a %chance to reflect. Something along the lines of 30%

Or

Make scales reflect 1 attack per cast.

It doesn't need to be a spammable Impenetrable reflect on caster vs all ranged attacks.

It's a cheese ability.

Nihil · December 2014

stylepolice wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

<sarcasm>Great idea - after you half-broke PvP against all those ranged bow users it is only straight-forward to break it completely by removing the only useful counter to mindlessly-spamming-poison-arrow!</sarcasm>

You really might want to think this through a bit more, because what you propose means ranged bow-dps will get even stronger then it is now. What will be the result? Bow-users will camp their own ressources and keeps where they are protected on the wall (no pull down as in the great beginning days of this game, which you nerfed in a knee jerk reaction because of people pulling friends _up_). The few players who do not hop on the FOTM-wagon will go to the ressource, look like a pin cushion within 3s, try it 5 more times and then log off to do something else.
The bow users will start watching TV besides their camping and eventually get so bored they also log off.

If you dont believe it from me - read up on DAoC-history, where Mythic was so nice to do all your errors for you already so you could at least try to avoid them.

Every build you ever conceived will be changed in this update, so how can we make claims of what will be strong in 1.6? This is the update that is reworking the majority of skills. It is introducing the champion system, it is getting rid of soft caps, it is changing armor sets, and food, it is putting upper limits on buffs / passive (my money is on surges weapon boost drastically getting hit by this). Should we really be making these claims without even seeing what is coming, without even attempting to work with the new system first? There very well could be counters already in place for bows (getting rid of soft caps would theoretically make it easier for heavy armor players to received a higher melee mitigation with expending less resources).

There are also new pvp ( I think they said skills) being introduced in the champion system. They might have what some players would be looking for.

Armitas · December 2014

Could someone bring me up to speed on dodge? What stacks what doesn't etc...

Rune_Relic · December 2014

stylepolice wrote: »

You really might want to think this through a bit more, because what you propose means ranged bow-dps will get even stronger then it is now. What will be the result? Bow-users will camp their own ressources and keeps where they are protected on the wall (no pull down as in the great beginning days of this game, which you nerfed in a knee jerk reaction because of people pulling friends _up_). The few players who do not hop on the FOTM-wagon will go to the ressource, look like a pin cushion within 3s, try it 5 more times and then log off to do something else.
The bow users will start watching TV besides their camping and eventually get so bored they also log off.

So everyone can spam magical ranged aoe and zerg up...completely wiping everything in its path.
But spamming ranged bow just isnt on right ?

Yeah. See exactly where you are coming from.

1. Bow damage is excessive and needs bringing down and melee raising up.
2. RS needs nerfing as it is two skills in one and makes DK invulnerable.
3. AoE needs nerfing. Its all about ranged damage. You want to nerf bows (stamina) you have to nerf aoe too (magicka).

The hard part is balancing....
one-one ranged (spell/bow)
aoe ranged (spell/bow)
one-one melee (spell/weapon)
pb-aoe (spell/weapon)
... I will see where we are with 1.6 before I comment further.

Suntzu1414 · December 2014

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

What this game needs is more counters, not more nerfs.

The reason Scales was so powerful is there were very few ways to counter it - especially for ranged casters like sorcs who have very few abilities to choose from that aren't projectiles or complete duds in PvP.

Instead of singular nerfs, I would have preferred a holistic change that favors more nuanced gameplay.

This is what I would have done.
Make the base skill reflect ALL projectiles 3 times (why 3 not 4? See harness magicka section below)

Morph 1: Reflects ONLY spell projectiles unlimited times..

Morph 2: Reflect ONLY weapon projectiles unlimited times.

Make the aura that surrounds you a different color per morph.

This gives DK's a ton of build options both in PvP and PvE. It also gives other classes ways to counter. You can look at the aura and determine what skills you should use. Some DKs would definitely choose the base skill with no morph, but again, that's situational.

But this is not all. There are a few other changes that need to be made.

Harness Magicka
Increase the amount of times harness magicka returns magicka to be on par with reflect. Harness was nerfed to return only 3 times. If DKs can reflect 4 times, then harness should return 4 times. It was a good counter and should trade evenly.

Harness should have an effect added that removes CC effects from reflected spells. You still take damage but at least you don't get knocked down from your own spell.

But what about Stamina users? Well evasion has needed a revamp for a long time.

Evasion
Evasion should also remove CC on reflected attacks as an added effect.

One of the morphs of evasion should return stamina for # of attacks dodged.

This would make it as useful to stamina users as harness is to magicka users. This is what they should have done instead of nerfing harness in the first place. More options instead of more nerfs.

This would go a long way to making gameplay require more skill and counters instead of just mashing buttons and holding block.

The missing sorc skill

Sorcs still need a major skill revamp to be able to counter DKs. Something like a ranged dispel on target skill would be perfect. This would force DKs running reflect to trade magicka with sorcs if they wanted to keep scales and other buffs up. If this skill could dispel buffs on monsters as well it would be useful in PvE situations as well. (e.g. dispelling rune focus on Menders or other monsters). Note that I am not asking for another negate skill. A dispel acts like an offensive purge that removes enemy buffs. Negate is a silence AND a dispel.

More discussion of fixes for sorc skills in the class skills forum.

Nice suggestions here.

Kill Well.
ST

Kromus · December 2014

Armitas wrote: »

Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.

Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.

If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.

When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.

What do you think how Templar tank feels in such situation? Soon you pop Blazing Shield in order to have at least some chance to survive in mid of action, enemies see 'bulb' lighten up shouting 'shoot me, shoot me', while Scales will send a message 'stop dps for a moment'. Shield can go down in a second, with single shot, and that can't be said for Scales. Pure math says you can spam Scales for a minute or more, and you can't do that with Blazing Shield, not even remotely.

If you talon, cinder, banner someone and he move out of it you can use chains to bring him back in your puddle of doom, but if you are Templar you have no option but to charge, wait for a GCD (Focused charge ability is one (have two more) out of five known abilities with GCD) and than recast Spear shards for example, in hope target not moved already by the time spear animation land. Templar also don't have any roots like DK have.

On top of that, if DK needs to heal himself and have resources to do so, nothing will stop it except cc, but if Templar needs to do it most likely his heal will go to some other guy nearby (happens on regular basis), leaving you with same low health but without magicka invested in heal. Awesome, right?

Armitas · December 2014

Kromus wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.

Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.

If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.

When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.

What do you think how Templar tank feels in such situation? Soon you pop Blazing Shield in order to have at least some chance to survive in mid of action, enemies see 'bulb' lighten up shouting 'shoot me, shoot me', while Scales will send a message 'stop dps for a moment'. Shield can go down in a second, with single shot, and that can't be said for Scales. Pure math says you can spam Scales for a minute or more, and you can't do that with Blazing Shield, not even remotely.

If you talon, cinder, banner someone and he move out of it you can use chains to bring him back in your puddle of doom, but if you are Templar you have no option but to charge, wait for a GCD (Focused charge ability is one (have two more) out of five known abilities with GCD) and than recast Spear shards for example, in hope target not moved already by the time spear animation land. Templar also don't have any roots like DK have.

On top of that, if DK needs to heal himself and have resources to do so, nothing will stop it except cc, but if Templar needs to do it most likely his heal will go to some other guy nearby (happens on regular basis), leaving you with same low health but without magicka invested in heal. Awesome, right?

You don't spam scales for a minute unless you are doing nothing but spaming scales. You will have to do a lot more than spam scales in the center if you want to survive. We have smart healing in the game it will heal the 3 people who need it most and since there is no one else around that is you. There is no DR penalty to it either so you will not have to wait for execute levels of health to get the most efficiency out of it. You have the strongest heals in the game. Yeah you don't have a root but you do have ranged damagers which we do not.

Black_Wolf88 · December 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

according to the road ahead update 6 will hit the PTS after new year and then its likely to stay there for 4 weeks before hitting the live server. why cant you just implement a fix to the number asap???? we dont want to wait 2 more months for this crap to be fixed.

other game companies hot fix issues asap when they are discovered and are game breaking. you at Zos wait 3 month each time so more and more feel the need to either quit the game or go full time PvE leaving the pvp campaigns more empty then they already are.

Lava_Croft · December 2014

Only important things get hotfixed and we know how 'important' PvP seems to be.

D Fresh · December 2014

Goldie wrote: »

Orchish wrote: »

It doesn't reflect melee so no idea what you're on about there.

It only reflects for 4 seconds not 6-8. You have two weapon bars, if your build is all range then you have given your self a weakness. Why is it so hard for people to change bar and stop spamming your lethal arrows and crystal fragments at a guy that is quite obviously flapping his big wings?

You cannot or will not adapt therefor something needs nerfing.

By Melee I mean bows and destro attacks, sorry about that

Did no one catch that Goldie called bows and destro staffs meele attacks?????? LAWL.

/FACEPALM

Please do not post anymore threads.

Thuster · December 2014

If the Scales gets nerfed DKs will get owned to easy, the reason why DKs need the Scales is because we have no ''escapes'' while NBs and Sorcs can just ''dissapear'' I don't know about Templars tho, but they have some hardcore shields which let them survive. But yea Scales should not get nerfed, in that case we would need a replacement...

prototypefb · December 2014

Thuster wrote: »

If the Scales gets nerfed DKs will get owned to easy, the reason why DKs need the Scales is because we have no ''escapes'' while NBs and Sorcs can just ''dissapear'' I don't know about Templars tho, but they have some hardcore shields which let them survive. But yea Scales should not get nerfed, in that case we would need a replacement...

scales will continue to be one of best skills out there, it just won't be riddiculously OP 1 vs many, it will be fixed as it should have been since beginning - no more infinite projectiles reflected, just 4 now. no more pop falppy wings and run into big group of noobs for them just to destroy themselves.

Kromus · December 2014

Armitas wrote: »

Kromus wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.

Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.

If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.

When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.

What do you think how Templar tank feels in such situation? Soon you pop Blazing Shield in order to have at least some chance to survive in mid of action, enemies see 'bulb' lighten up shouting 'shoot me, shoot me', while Scales will send a message 'stop dps for a moment'. Shield can go down in a second, with single shot, and that can't be said for Scales. Pure math says you can spam Scales for a minute or more, and you can't do that with Blazing Shield, not even remotely.

If you talon, cinder, banner someone and he move out of it you can use chains to bring him back in your puddle of doom, but if you are Templar you have no option but to charge, wait for a GCD (Focused charge ability is one (have two more) out of five known abilities with GCD) and than recast Spear shards for example, in hope target not moved already by the time spear animation land. Templar also don't have any roots like DK have.

On top of that, if DK needs to heal himself and have resources to do so, nothing will stop it except cc, but if Templar needs to do it most likely his heal will go to some other guy nearby (happens on regular basis), leaving you with same low health but without magicka invested in heal. Awesome, right?

You don't spam scales for a minute unless you are doing nothing but spaming scales. You will have to do a lot more than spam scales in the center if you want to survive. We have smart healing in the game it will heal the 3 people who need it most and since there is no one else around that is you. There is no DR penalty to it either so you will not have to wait for execute levels of health to get the most efficiency out of it. You have the strongest heals in the game. Yeah you don't have a root but you do have ranged damagers which we do not.

You are missing the point. What use of strongest heals in the game Templar have if playing as a tank? In order to achieve label of strongest heals in the game you should place several healing abilities on your bar and back it up with a lot of magicka and spell power, but if you play as tank you don't have such luxury since you want/need to make use of defensive abilities, otherwise you are not really a tank, just more endurable caster. Same goes for range damage, unless you are building a range tank which only few people would even consider playing.

"We have smart healing in the game it will heal the 3 people who need it most and since there is no one else around that is you."

True, but ONLY when there is no ally around you, and this is supposed to be massive pvp game, not dueling. When there is at least 1 ally near who have 1% less hp than you, heal will go to him/her and not you, while at same time DK tank will always heal himself. To put that into perspective... you as templar tank have 5% health and ally near you (that you might not even see or know) have 4% for example, you struggle to cast heal in order not to die and your heal goes to... well, not you and poof you die. Who the hell with 5% hp would want to heal some other random guy instead himself? Easiest fix for that would be making 'Honor the Dead' morph self-heal only since its single target heal already.

Regarding reflective scales and blazing shield spam... Point is that if you are surrounded by 5 players who only use range abilities, as a DK you don't really have a problem with keeping scales up for some time, while at same time Blazing shield would quickly drain your magicka and leave you with no resources to keep going. That would even be fine in case Templars are to be superior in melee tanking, but we all know that's not the case, and you get shorter stick in both melee and range tanking.

Lava_Croft · December 2014

Thuster wrote: »

If the Scales gets nerfed DKs will get owned to easy, the reason why DKs need the Scales is because we have no ''escapes'' while NBs and Sorcs can just ''dissapear'' I don't know about Templars tho, but they have some hardcore shields which let them survive. But yea Scales should not get nerfed, in that case we would need a replacement...

This *** arguments keeps getting repeated over and over. The reason Sorcs and NBs have escape skills is because both of them lack any kind of meaningful healing skills. Both DKs and TPs do have such skills, hence they don't have any escape skills.

Gorthax · December 2014

Black_Wolf88 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

according to the road ahead update 6 will hit the PTS after new year and then its likely to stay there for 4 weeks before hitting the live server. why cant you just implement a fix to the number asap???? we dont want to wait 2 more months for this crap to be fixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ This please

fix this asap :P it should of been like this 3 months ago lol would be great if monday we get this fix in there ^_~

Nijjion · December 2014

Kromus wrote: »

"We have smart healing in the game it will heal the 3 people who need it most and since there is no one else around that is you."

True, but ONLY when there is no ally around you, and this is supposed to be massive pvp game, not dueling. When there is at least 1 ally near who have 1% less hp than you, heal will go to him/her and not you, while at same time DK tank will always heal himself. To put that into perspective... you as templar tank have 5% health and ally near you (that you might not even see or know) have 4% for example, you struggle to cast heal in order not to die and your heal goes to... well, not you and poof you die. Who the hell with 5% hp would want to heal some other random guy instead himself? Easiest fix for that would be making 'Honor the Dead' morph self-heal only since its single target heal already.

This is something that my whole guild hates about ESO... the healing is terrible in ESO. Smart healing works against our healers so much when randoms are around us.

It's made him want to quit like every week.

Xsorus · December 2014

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Thuster wrote: »

If the Scales gets nerfed DKs will get owned to easy, the reason why DKs need the Scales is because we have no ''escapes'' while NBs and Sorcs can just ''dissapear'' I don't know about Templars tho, but they have some hardcore shields which let them survive. But yea Scales should not get nerfed, in that case we would need a replacement...

This *** arguments keeps getting repeated over and over. The reason Sorcs and NBs have escape skills is because both of them lack any kind of meaningful healing skills. Both DKs and TPs do have such skills, hence they don't have any escape skills.

Sorcs have really good shields, which work well with Restro Staffs healing Ward for Super healing.

Nightblades, you can spam stuff like funnel health, or do what i do and throw undaunted bastion on with restro staff and when ya get low, inner fire someone, then healing ward...its 2k shielding and will usually heal you for 900+

Armitas · December 2014

Kromus wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Kromus wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Because in PvP that means immediately taking the focus fire from every enemy in the group. That is something you don't get standing side by side with 20 other pewers.

Hmm a way for other players to defend themselves against melee attacks. If only there were a skill like that for everyone to use that would cause all melee attacks to miss. What if it also lasted 4seconds like RS. What if it was actually in the game already.

If you talon someone and they roll out of it you will have to invade them first and then talon again consuming stamina and magicka for each roll. About the only people I lock down with talons anymore are people who use double tap to roll. The only thing Talons needs right now is immunity on break free.

When you have to face the focus fire of the entire zerg to use your class damagers then yes you can have what is required to make that possible. When you sit on the back ranks and pew pew you don't need it.

What do you think how Templar tank feels in such situation? Soon you pop Blazing Shield in order to have at least some chance to survive in mid of action, enemies see 'bulb' lighten up shouting 'shoot me, shoot me', while Scales will send a message 'stop dps for a moment'. Shield can go down in a second, with single shot, and that can't be said for Scales. Pure math says you can spam Scales for a minute or more, and you can't do that with Blazing Shield, not even remotely.

If you talon, cinder, banner someone and he move out of it you can use chains to bring him back in your puddle of doom, but if you are Templar you have no option but to charge, wait for a GCD (Focused charge ability is one (have two more) out of five known abilities with GCD) and than recast Spear shards for example, in hope target not moved already by the time spear animation land. Templar also don't have any roots like DK have.

On top of that, if DK needs to heal himself and have resources to do so, nothing will stop it except cc, but if Templar needs to do it most likely his heal will go to some other guy nearby (happens on regular basis), leaving you with same low health but without magicka invested in heal. Awesome, right?

You don't spam scales for a minute unless you are doing nothing but spaming scales. You will have to do a lot more than spam scales in the center if you want to survive. We have smart healing in the game it will heal the 3 people who need it most and since there is no one else around that is you. There is no DR penalty to it either so you will not have to wait for execute levels of health to get the most efficiency out of it. You have the strongest heals in the game. Yeah you don't have a root but you do have ranged damagers which we do not.

You are missing the point. What use of strongest heals in the game Templar have if playing as a tank? In order to achieve label of strongest heals in the game you should place several healing abilities on your bar and back it up with a lot of magicka and spell power, but if you play as tank you don't have such luxury since you want/need to make use of defensive abilities, otherwise you are not really a tank, just more endurable caster. Same goes for range damage, unless you are building a range tank which only few people would even consider playing.

"We have smart healing in the game it will heal the 3 people who need it most and since there is no one else around that is you."

True, but ONLY when there is no ally around you, and this is supposed to be massive pvp game, not dueling. When there is at least 1 ally near who have 1% less hp than you, heal will go to him/her and not you, while at same time DK tank will always heal himself. To put that into perspective... you as templar tank have 5% health and ally near you (that you might not even see or know) have 4% for example, you struggle to cast heal in order not to die and your heal goes to... well, not you and poof you die. Who the hell with 5% hp would want to heal some other random guy instead himself? Easiest fix for that would be making 'Honor the Dead' morph self-heal only since its single target heal already.

Regarding reflective scales and blazing shield spam... Point is that if you are surrounded by 5 players who only use range abilities, as a DK you don't really have a problem with keeping scales up for some time, while at same time Blazing shield would quickly drain your magicka and leave you with no resources to keep going. That would even be fine in case Templars are to be superior in melee tanking, but we all know that's not the case, and you get shorter stick in both melee and range tanking.

This is the case for the DK too. He is tanking everything in the zerg and also has to heal and do damage while maintaining a 4s defense. If you are the only one pushed in there are not 3 people to steal your heals and if you complain shield isn't enough and you can't handle it you are likely to be the one smart healing chooses.

Explain to me how a DK can spam RS and keep it up but when you spam Blazing shield it drains you magicka and you have no resources when blazing shield is a cheaper cast.... Things always look different on the other side of the fence.

You don't even have to charge in to do class damage, we actually do.