Formal request for target dummies. (1.6 is a perfect example)

poodlemasterb16_ESO · November 2014

dharbert wrote: »

There's a reason why there are no practice dummies. It's the same reason why they won't implement friendly duels. They don't want you to know your DPS, which skills are working correctly and which aren't, test out your build, and other things like that.

If you've been playing this game for even a little while, you would know that their modus operandi is to keep us in the dark as much as possible.

This is just wrong. The game exposes all kinds of stuff through the API, and anyone can write a lua script to get at the data you are interested in.

There are training dummies everywhere. They call em' World Bosses in this game.

Alphashado · November 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

There's a reason why there are no practice dummies. It's the same reason why they won't implement friendly duels. They don't want you to know your DPS, which skills are working correctly and which aren't, test out your build, and other things like that.

If you've been playing this game for even a little while, you would know that their modus operandi is to keep us in the dark as much as possible.

This is just wrong. The game exposes all kinds of stuff through the API, and anyone can write a lau script to get at the data you are interested in.

There are training dummies everywhere. They call em' World Bosses in this game.

Strange. In all of the successful MMOs, they are called training dummies.

Alphashado · November 2014

Just found some in Jathsogur. Ironically enough there were NPCs whacking on them at the time.

I edited a screen shot into the OP.

Gidorick · November 2014

Submit this idea using /feedback in game. The /feedback goes directly to development so it has a better chance of being seen by those who make the game design decisions.

Alphashado · November 2014

Gidorick wrote: »

Submit this idea using /feedback in game. The /feedback goes directly to development so it has a better chance of being seen by those who make the game design decisions.

Indeed, thank you. I will add that to the OP.

Ragefist · November 2014

Go to Cyrodiil, plenty of dummies you can target

poodlemasterb16_ESO · November 2014

Is the problem people have with say, a World Boss. the fact that you will die a lot?

My best battle ever, and quite revealing, as to mechanics, was a 58,000hp Frost Atronach at the end of some multi person dungeon, I had managed to solo, largely by stealth I must admit. I beat that sucker down to 1/3 with my, at the time, VR8 Vampire Witch. I began to get Streak right and got a better grip on my Ward use, then I got smoked.

I just learned how to deal with wasp swarms in Craglorn. It took a few deaths but I can now reliably kill swarms of em'. The 5000hp ones, not the little guys. I'll give this one away, for Sorcs only. You need:

A Frost Staff. My usual Fire Staff just makes em' faster and meaner. Softcapped Max Magic, Magic Regen, Weapon Damage which you can get to with Critical Surge which you also need. 50%+ Spell Critical and Hardened Ward. Go stand in em' and spam Elemental Ring.

superfluke · November 2014

I'll give this one away, for Sorcs only. You need:

A Frost Staff. My usual Fire Staff just makes em' faster and meaner. Softcapped Max Magic, Magic Regen, Weapon Damage which you can get to with Critical Surge which you also need. 50%+ Spell Critical and Hardened Ward. Go stand in em' and spam Elemental Ring.

Be careful giving away secrets, the next thing you know everyone will be using destruction staff and impulse spam.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · November 2014

superfluke wrote: »

I'll give this one away, for Sorcs only. You need:

A Frost Staff. My usual Fire Staff just makes em' faster and meaner. Softcapped Max Magic, Magic Regen, Weapon Damage which you can get to with Critical Surge which you also need. 50%+ Spell Critical and Hardened Ward. Go stand in em' and spam Elemental Ring.

Be careful giving away secrets, the next thing you know everyone will be using destruction staff and impulse spam.

That is funny. Yup it's kinda dynamite done right. It's Critical Surge really that is keeping you alive. The Impulse spam just serves up the crits wholesale. The combination allows almost unbelievable crowd damage. It took a while but a room full of 2500hp - 3500hp trash just brings a smile now.

Alphashado · November 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Is the problem people have with say, a World Boss. the fact that you will die a lot?

My best battle ever, and quite revealing, as to mechanics, was a 58,000hp Frost Atronach at the end of some multi person dungeon, I had managed to solo, largely by stealth I must admit. I beat that sucker down to 1/3 with my, at the time, VR8 Vampire Witch. I began to get Streak right and got a better grip on my Ward use, then I got smoked.

I just learned how to deal with wasp swarms in Craglorn. It took a few deaths but I can now reliably kill swarms of em'. The 5000hp ones, not the little guys. I'll give this one away, for Sorcs only. You need:

A Frost Staff. My usual Fire Staff just makes em' faster and meaner. Softcapped Max Magic, Magic Regen, Weapon Damage which you can get to with Critical Surge which you also need. 50%+ Spell Critical and Hardened Ward. Go stand in em' and spam Elemental Ring.

While that is useful and helpful information, I think that you have misunderstood the point of this thread. Which is that practice dummies would offer us a way to work on, practice, and develop different sustained dps builds. Or sustained aoe builds.

Burst damage builds don't work on dungeon bosses. And currently that is the only thing we can test without being in a dungeon.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · November 2014

Alphashado wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Is the problem people have with say, a World Boss. the fact that you will die a lot?

My best battle ever, and quite revealing, as to mechanics, was a 58,000hp Frost Atronach at the end of some multi person dungeon, I had managed to solo, largely by stealth I must admit. I beat that sucker down to 1/3 with my, at the time, VR8 Vampire Witch. I began to get Streak right and got a better grip on my Ward use, then I got smoked.

I just learned how to deal with wasp swarms in Craglorn. It took a few deaths but I can now reliably kill swarms of em'. The 5000hp ones, not the little guys. I'll give this one away, for Sorcs only. You need:

A Frost Staff. My usual Fire Staff just makes em' faster and meaner. Softcapped Max Magic, Magic Regen, Weapon Damage which you can get to with Critical Surge which you also need. 50%+ Spell Critical and Hardened Ward. Go stand in em' and spam Elemental Ring.

While that is useful and helpful information, I think that you have misunderstood the point of this thread. Which is that practice dummies would offer us a way to work on, practice, and develop different sustained dps builds. Or sustained aoe builds.

Burst damage builds don't work on dungeon bosses. And currently that is the only thing we can test without being in a dungeon.

I have honed my skills on largely World Bosses and Dungeon Bosses.

Burst damage works fine, it just does not finish. my son has a VR10 Vampire NB and hits for well over 2000hp. His problem was what to do afterwards. He now has a multitude of useful tactics to get to the end of the fight, mainly because he is a World Boss fool. If I want to find him I just 'travel to player' and go to the nearest WB, he'll be there.

Part of what you will have to deal with in a fight is the various tactics the big guys use. They are varied and fatal if you don't figure them out. A practice dummy is kinda useless really.

cote-bmsb16_ESO · November 2014

Thats cool for dps but how could other classes benchmark themselves?

poodlemasterb16_ESO · November 2014

How long it takes to kill that thing with enough health that you can usefully measure, is how you 'rough and ready' DPS measurement.

It's essential that you learn to weave. The ability to usefully weave a weapon or class skill with a light attack is crucial to generating good DPS.

My VR9 Vampire Witch can generate huge damage with a woven Fire Staff doing Light Attack, and say Force Shock. The crits just go nuts, I do run 50% spell critical which makes that really strong.

My level 14 Argonian NB can weave a Bow and Poison Arrow or Dual Wield, 2 precise Daggers, of course, and Blood Craze for much greater effect than any normal use of those weapons.

You just do Light Attack and whatever the other attack is, as fast as you can. The game's internal timer will limit that but it is far more damage over time than any other method will generate. I guess you could practice weaving on a practice dummy but don't you have stuff to do? Practice it there.

Alphashado · November 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

How long it takes to kill that thing with enough health that you can usefully measure, is how you 'rough and ready' DPS measurement.

It's essential that you learn to weave. The ability to usefully weave a weapon or class skill with a light attack is crucial to generating good DPS.

My VR9 Vampire Witch can generate huge damage with a woven Fire Staff doing Light Attack, and say Force Shock. The crits just go nuts, I do run 50% spell critical which makes that really strong.

My level 14 Argonian NB can weave a Bow and Poison Arrow or Dual Wield, 2 precise Daggers, of course, and Blood Craze for much greater effect than any normal use of those weapons.

You just do Light Attack and whatever the other attack is, as fast as you can. The game's internal timer will limit that but it is far more damage over time than any other method will generate. I guess you could practice weaving on a practice dummy but don't you have stuff to do? Practice it there.

I am baffled that anyone would actually try to generate an argument against this. My only guess is that it's coming from people that have never played an MMO that had this feature.

Games that include target dummies:

WoW
SWTOR
RIFT
LOTRO
EQ2
GW2

ETC. The list goes on and on. There is no harm in having them. As mentioned before, this is something that smart developers understand as a staple to a solid MMO. And as long as we are revamping the entire game in order to make it more appealing, then why not add them to the list as well?

Gidorick · November 2014

Alphashado wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

How long it takes to kill that thing with enough health that you can usefully measure, is how you 'rough and ready' DPS measurement.

It's essential that you learn to weave. The ability to usefully weave a weapon or class skill with a light attack is crucial to generating good DPS.

My VR9 Vampire Witch can generate huge damage with a woven Fire Staff doing Light Attack, and say Force Shock. The crits just go nuts, I do run 50% spell critical which makes that really strong.

My level 14 Argonian NB can weave a Bow and Poison Arrow or Dual Wield, 2 precise Daggers, of course, and Blood Craze for much greater effect than any normal use of those weapons.

You just do Light Attack and whatever the other attack is, as fast as you can. The game's internal timer will limit that but it is far more damage over time than any other method will generate. I guess you could practice weaving on a practice dummy but don't you have stuff to do? Practice it there.

I am baffled that anyone would actually try to generate an argument against this. My only guess is that it's coming from people that have never played an MMO that had this feature.

Games that include target dummies:

WoW
SWTOR
RIFT
LOTRO
EQ2
GW2

ETC. The list goes on and on. There is no harm in having them. As mentioned before, this is something that smart developers understand as a staple to a solid MMO. And as long as we are revamping the entire game in order to make it more appealing, then why not add them to the list as well?

I personally would like to make the argument that ESO needs them because ESO needs them, not ESO needs them because other MMOs have them.

ESO is a special kind of beast. It has two heads... one thinks like an MMO and one thinks like a TES game... And both are a bit dim.

Mightylink · November 2014

It would be nice if they added it, its a great place for people to hang out, a training area always draws people together and it brings cities to life.

helediron · November 2014

Nothing wrong with these tactics lessons, but they belong to another thread. Some of us want to push their skills even further. Tactics is one thing. Optimizing, dissecting and comparing DPS is another. Then you need dummies.

I am a crafter. I am making different experimental armors and weapons with different traits and glyphs. To know how they compare i need dummies.

I've been using world bosses, but to get any reliable results, i need to kill them many times. Then change something and kill them again. It's awfully time consuming. World bosses also die too soon to give reliable results. I consider dummies very useful.

Spark · November 2014

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

Thats cool for dps but how could other classes benchmark themselves?

By doing group content and not having anyone die?

Gidorick · November 2014

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

Thats cool for dps but how could other classes benchmark themselves?

What if there were different Dummy types. Maybe one that "dies" to test healing that could take the form of... hunks of rotting meat tied together as a practice dummy. Or one that has elemental effects to find out the best way to counter those elements? One dummy could be on fire, one made of ice and one could be a Dwarven construct to test electricity.

Orchish · November 2014

If not target dummies, at least add the Adoring Fan to the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypXMAIL0p5w

Alphashado · December 2014

Gidorick wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

How long it takes to kill that thing with enough health that you can usefully measure, is how you 'rough and ready' DPS measurement.

It's essential that you learn to weave. The ability to usefully weave a weapon or class skill with a light attack is crucial to generating good DPS.

My VR9 Vampire Witch can generate huge damage with a woven Fire Staff doing Light Attack, and say Force Shock. The crits just go nuts, I do run 50% spell critical which makes that really strong.

My level 14 Argonian NB can weave a Bow and Poison Arrow or Dual Wield, 2 precise Daggers, of course, and Blood Craze for much greater effect than any normal use of those weapons.

You just do Light Attack and whatever the other attack is, as fast as you can. The game's internal timer will limit that but it is far more damage over time than any other method will generate. I guess you could practice weaving on a practice dummy but don't you have stuff to do? Practice it there.

I am baffled that anyone would actually try to generate an argument against this. My only guess is that it's coming from people that have never played an MMO that had this feature.

Games that include target dummies:

WoW
SWTOR
RIFT
LOTRO
EQ2
GW2

ETC. The list goes on and on. There is no harm in having them. As mentioned before, this is something that smart developers understand as a staple to a solid MMO. And as long as we are revamping the entire game in order to make it more appealing, then why not add them to the list as well?

I personally would like to make the argument that ESO needs them because ESO needs them, not ESO needs them because other MMOs have them.

Fair enough. But I would argue that all those other MMOs need them for the same reasons ESO needs them.

The only difference is that ESO does not have them and those other MMOs do.

CalliESO2014 · December 2014

I think they would be very useful. Hope this gets some attn!

Alphashado · December 2014

I now kill innocent NPCs for no other reason than pure jealousy. If I see a mob whacking away on a practice dummy, then they are dead, dead, dead. If we can't have practice dummies, then nor shall the NPCs.

So hear this and hear this well NPCs:

Use them at your own risk. From hense forth, any use of a practice dummy is punishable by death.

ThunderCat · December 2014

If we can't have them, at least an official reason as to why we can't have them would be nice.

Lykurgis · January 2015

Ya, would be nice to have a real reason from the devs.

Joejudas · January 2015

Can I get my extra CP for my VR 14 if I whack enough practice dummies ????

Joejudas · January 2015

Guys....we can use the " unkillable " guards as practice dummies !!!!!! Ooooooo mmmyyy gooodddneesssss

Alphashado · January 2015

Joejudas wrote: »

Guys....we can use the " unkillable " guards as practice dummies !!!!!! Ooooooo mmmyyy gooodddneesssss

That's assuming they don't smash your face into a bloody pulp. lol

It's nice to see this thread get necro'd. I was just thinking about it again today how nice it would be to have them. Such a small thing that goes such a long ways

Lykurgis · January 2015

Seems more important than ever now that 1.6 is looming in the future, a shame they seem content with us languishing without a proper testing system, ie target dummies.

Alphashado · January 2015

In a game where theory crafting abounds, meta builds wreak havoc, cookie cutter builds dominate the landscape and build videos litter youtube, it's astounding that we don't have practice dummies.

This in an incredibly diverse skill/combat system that just seems bereft without them.