Formal request for target dummies. (1.6 is a perfect example)

Alphashado

Has there ever been a time when practice dummies were more needed than right now? How nice would it be to jump on the PTS (where it's damned near impossible to get a group for anything) and just head straight to a target dummy in order to test out the nerfs and new builds?

Seriously ZoS, is this a AAA MMO or not? These things cannot be that hard to put in, and times like this is exactly when they are needed the most.

Khivas_Carrick

What I wanna know about it why there aren't any test dummies in this game when we'd be doing the testing for them for free.

Seriously, it boggles my mind for they have nothing to gain from keeping us in the dark.

Alphashado

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Seriously, it boggles my mind for they have nothing to gain from keeping us in the dark.

Exactly. The amount of time we could save and the sheer amount of additional feedback zos would get would be an astronomical increase over what we have now.

There would be a ton more videos screenshots showing builds and data because we wouldn't have to go through the trouble on the PTS to find a group, go into a dungeon and test a build that may or may not be any good. People would be testing builds on dummies, then taking optimal builds into Dungeons/Trials etc. So there would be a dramatic increase in relevant data.

pppontus

Target dummies would also be useful for all the non min-maxers, you can use them to take out your frustration on when your quests are bugged, the game is laggy or you have your 95th endless loading screen.

Win-win.

Implement. Now. Please.

Lykurgis

Alphashado wrote: »

Has there ever been a time when practice dummies were more needed than right now?

Nope.

Alphashado wrote: »

How nice would it be to jump on the PTS (where it's damned near impossible to get a group for anything) and just head straight to a target dummy in order to test out the nerfs and new builds?

That would be amazing, and also mean I wouldn't have to tank the Gargoyle boss in Spindle so 2 people at a time can test gear/rotations.

Alphashado wrote: »

These things cannot be that hard to put in, and times like this is exactly when they are needed the most.

totally agree, and I may have some positive feedback regarding this...

One of my trials guilds recently held a meeting with ZOS community managers and Eric Worbel. In that meeting they fielded questions from members of our guild (and others shoutout to Atropos, Igoham, and Lolimage) on TS, and I asked them directly what the deal is, the entire conversation was live streamed via WKB's twitch.

Basically, they HAVE target dummies to test internally, ironically, they are all models of Eric Worbel. The tech is already in place.

They are also lore friendly and the models are already in game (so all the lore lovers can't hate use that to lobby against them). We get a pass there.

They are open to adding them, No ETA, but the more noise we make about it....

And a personal observation based on the tone of their responses, they seemed surprised/unaware they we wanted them.

Alphashado

Lykurgis wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Has there ever been a time when practice dummies were more needed than right now?

Nope.

Alphashado wrote: »

How nice would it be to jump on the PTS (where it's damned near impossible to get a group for anything) and just head straight to a target dummy in order to test out the nerfs and new builds?

That would be amazing, and also mean I wouldn't have to tank the Gargoyle boss in Spindle so 2 people at a time can test gear/rotations.

Alphashado wrote: »

These things cannot be that hard to put in, and times like this is exactly when they are needed the most.

totally agree, and I may have some positive feedback regarding this...

One of my trials guilds recently held a meeting with ZOS community managers and Eric Worbel. In that meeting they fielded questions from members of our guild (and others shoutout to Atropos, Igoham, and Lolimage) on TS, and I asked them directly what the deal is, the entire conversation was live streamed via WKB's twitch.

Basically, they HAVE target dummies to test internally, ironically, they are all models of Eric Worbel. The tech is already in place.

They are also lore friendly and the models are already in game (so all the lore lovers can't hate use that to lobby against them). We get a pass there.

They are open to adding them, No ETA, but the more noise we make about it....

And a personal observation based on the tone of their responses, they seemed surprised/unaware that we wanted them.

I don't find that surprising considering that this is the first MMO for most of them. Target dummies are a feature only recognized by experienced gamers and experienced developers.

They are a small but incredibly powerful and useful tool. Even if we only had them on the PTS (at first), I would be very happy with that.

It's nice to hear that they have heard first hand a formal request for them. Hopefully everyone that would like to see them in the game submits a /feedback request.

helediron

There is a lot of testing needed with 1.6. Please add the dummies!

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

Dummies are extremelu usefull . There is no even one logical argument against them. ZOS give us dummies already.

LtCrunch

In theory you could treat the town guards as target dummies, though you would need a Good healer to keep you up.

Lykurgis

Brandalf wrote: »

In theory you could treat the town guards as target dummies, though you would need a Good healer to keep you up.

Last i checked even with a healer guards can just flat out 1-shot you, imo, we as a community would be better served by the zos team allowing us access to target dummies, which they already have for internal testing.

Sad that so much build theorycrafting needs to happen for 1.6 without the best tool available.

Snit

Even if they're only on PTS, we need these to test stuff.

DeLindsay

Won't happen, ZoS doesn't want to give us proper ways to test things because then we'd know exactly how badly certain abilities are performing and if they are still broken even though ZoS swears they fixed it. That said, PLEASE give us usable Target Dummies to test things, other than the ones in Cyrodiil

PER Eric Wrobel (sp?) on the Live Stream today: Target Dummies are coming, no ETA though.

helediron

Good to have them. Just don't overdesign them. Anything allowing two minutes nuking is ok. No need to hide from others. No need for crown store. No need to look like Eric. All that can come later. I suggest simple dummies in Eyvea. They are already there, but unusable for players.

dharbert

Brandalf wrote: »

In theory you could treat the town guards as target dummies, though you would need a Good healer to keep you up.

And the healer would get flagged for helping you and die as well....

Alphashado

helediron wrote: »

Good to have them. Just don't overdesign them. Anything allowing two minutes nuking is ok. No need to hide from others. No need for crown store. No need to look like Eric. All that can come later. I suggest simple dummies in Eyvea. They are already there, but unusable for players.

They are all over the place actually. Since I started this thread, I have seen them everywhere. Anytime I see them it catches my attention now lol.

There are only two things they would have to do right now, and as you mentioned, the rest they could deal with later. Right now they would just have to:

1. Not be anywhere near a guard or NPC. We don't want to get a bounty because we accidentally hit some old lady walking by with her broom.
2. Make sure the dummies have the appropriate amount of armor and spell resistance for endgame. They could either take the average from a spell casting dungeon boss and a heavy armor wearing dungeon boss, or have one of each.

helediron

I've been testing on PTS alot. Dummies are at the top of my wishlist. Keep them as priority! Many *other* issues like sorc and NB magicka build balances would be much easier to compare and sort out, if dummies were there.

Seraphyel

Yes please. Now!

TehMagnus

dharbert wrote: »

There's a reason why there are no practice dummies. It's the same reason why they won't implement friendly duels. They don't want you to know your DPS, which skills are working correctly and which aren't, test out your build, and other things like that.

If you've been playing this game for even a little while, you would know that their modus operandi is to keep us in the dark as much as possible.

Yup, Forced Ignorance = Immersion in ZOS's mind

Lykurgis

TehMagnus wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

There's a reason why there are no practice dummies. It's the same reason why they won't implement friendly duels. They don't want you to know your DPS, which skills are working correctly and which aren't, test out your build, and other things like that.

If you've been playing this game for even a little while, you would know that their modus operandi is to keep us in the dark as much as possible.

Yup, Forced Ignorance = Immersion in ZOS's mind

Hence the removal of name plates and Stam/Magicka display on targets in pvp, ect... but a touch of good news...

In ESO live episode 11 at the (roughly) 1:03:50 mark, Eric Wrobel did take my question about Target Dummies and answer it that yes, they are looking into adding them. No ETA as i recall...

Heard some scuttlebutt yesterday in TS that this is getting more attention in other dev+guild one on one meetings because the are acknowledging the need for faster&more accurate player testing to help ferret out DPS issues quicker (ie: heavy attack bug, Rally bug, ect ect), hopefully this will incite some urgency to get us this feature fast.

HeroOfNone

I agree with targeting dummies but as I put out before we should have tutorials for different weapon and class skill lines. This would save a lot of confusion on what abilities to get, give players an idea how to build a character, not require that everyone to dump skill points and time into something that is useless, and save on the cost of respecs. Training dummies are good, but still sucks you need to build up the time to get the skills to then see if they are what you want.

Novesette

Yes please, targeting dummies would be awesome.

Navaya

dharbert wrote: »

There's a reason why there are no practice dummies. It's the same reason why they won't implement friendly duels. They don't want you to know your DPS, which skills are working correctly and which aren't, test out your build, and other things like that.

If you've been playing this game for even a little while, you would know that their modus operandi is to keep us in the dark as much as possible.

They have actually mentioned that they are gonna implement Duel system together or after the pvp system for Justice System. Their reason was something like that they have the coding to make duel systems then or something like that. And they also talked about implementing dummies too. And from what I heard they were talking about having it as a summon thing. So that none can come and dps on your own Dummy, which ofc make sense. One of those guys in ESO Live talked about it.

But yeah... they sure are taking their sweet time doing it.

Alphashado

Navaya wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

There's a reason why there are no practice dummies. It's the same reason why they won't implement friendly duels. They don't want you to know your DPS, which skills are working correctly and which aren't, test out your build, and other things like that.

If you've been playing this game for even a little while, you would know that their modus operandi is to keep us in the dark as much as possible.

They have actually mentioned that they are gonna implement Duel system together or after the pvp system for Justice System. Their reason was something like that they have the coding to make duel systems then or something like that. And they also talked about implementing dummies too. And from what I heard they were talking about having it as a summon thing. So that none can come and dps on your own Dummy, which ofc make sense. One of those guys in ESO Live talked about it.

But yeah... they sure are taking their sweet time doing it.

Our own personal "summoned" target dummy would be amazing.

EDIT:

Lykurgis wrote: »

In ESO live episode 11 at the (roughly) 1:03:50 mark, Eric Wrobel did take my question about Target Dummies and answer it that yes, they are looking into adding them. No ETA as i recall...

I just watched that. Encouraging news indeed. Thank you for the time stamp.

Shlankwald

They could start by actually giving you DAMAGE NUMBERS without having to use a mod. I'd imagine seeing actual digits would come before a way to test your DPS.

I agree, though, they should add them. Its like they are tryna shelter players from becoming elitist jerks about dps numbers and stuff, but they should have thought of that before they allowed addons.

Alphashado

Shlankwald wrote: »

They could start by actually giving you DAMAGE NUMBERS without having to use a mod. I'd imagine seeing actual digits would come before a way to test your DPS.

I agree, though, they should add them. Its like they are tryna shelter players from becoming elitist jerks about dps numbers and stuff, but they should have thought of that before they allowed addons.

My personal opinion is that it's just an example of how ZoS is still a fledgling toddler in the MMO genre. I honestly think they are surprised that there may be a huge demand for target dummies. I think that due to this thread, feedback in the game, and so many people using so many different platforms to ask for them, that it's only now becoming obvious to ZoS how useful they would be and how much of a demand there is for them.

I hate to add anything to the cash store. The cash store in general leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But at this point, if pitching it to them as an opportunity to make money is what it will take to get them in the game, then so be it. Target dummies would sell like crazy.

Lykurgis

Alphashado wrote: »

I hate to add anything to the cash store. The cash store in general leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But at this point, if pitching it to them as an opportunity to make money is what it will take to get them in the game, then so be it. Target dummies would sell like crazy.

Exactly what I was thinking when I posted this...
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/146934/million-dollar-idea-for-crown-store

If the only way to get them is to get buy them, so be it.

Shlankwald wrote: »

They could start by actually giving you DAMAGE NUMBERS without having to use a mod. I'd imagine seeing actual digits would come before a way to test your DPS.

IIRC they did at first. An early version of the game had floating combat text and a minimap, both went the way of the dodo.

In trying to make ESO a unique snowflake in the MMO world (read: Skyrim style immersion) they removed staple features like these. I can live with using a sketchy minimap addon, but no Target/Practice dummies...come on.

SoulScream

Five target dummies for five dollars in crown store soon.

Alphashado

If they do end up in the store, I would rather not see them be a consumable. I think it would be tacky for ZoS to basically charge us for the luxury of testing their product in the 1st place. However if they were to be in the store, I would much rather see them cost roughly the same amount of crowns as a mount, and used as such. A one-time purchase that is re-summonable and doesn't deteriorate with use.

I believe It would feel like too much of a cash grab if it were a consumable that didn't last long. I think that would create more resentment from the community than appreciation. Just my opinion.

But as long as we are putting this in a wish list category, and if it were to be an item sold in the cash store, I would like to see two different types of summoned dummies available.

1. Single target Raid Boss Dummy.
2. AoE target multiple trash mob Dummy. (a group of 3-5 together)

DeLindsay

This thread should be in the Forum section "What would you like to see in ESO in 2017" along with other very basic MMO staples that ESO's missing

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

drop your ults at the right time and every boss in AA is already a target dummy