Punished for playing the game

Adhal · November 2014

Gillysan wrote: »

Yeah, stop whining. The problem with this game in general is that leveling was too easy. The result is they have to scramble to keep people interested in the game. The other result is threads like this, where some people feel left out or short changed because of some change to the leveling experience in this game.

They made a fundamental error when releasing this game. People will *** & whine, but they will grind. They *** more when they don't have something to grind.

Umm a majority left because vr rank leveling sucked, this patch was supposed to alleviate that until champ system came out. Instead ATM it is worse. No one wants to spend 15-20 playtime leveling so they can run endgame stuff with their friends

Unlikely_Ghostbuster · November 2014

Repeating dungeon content was *the intent* of the new Undaunted additions, was it not? That's why the loot drops are so provocative -- to make you go back for the chance of awesome one and two-piece bonus sets that give you a special proc based on the boss monster from which the head and shoulder pieces came. Same with the new passives, which are also an incentive for players who already had the Undaunted line maxed out.

Besides... You're going to have to repeat the same dungeon a lot of times to get the sets you want, as you have no control over which two dungeons are going to be today's pledges.

Of course, that's assuming you *want* that gear, which is probably at the heart of this discussion -- what we each want out of this game, individually, may not generalize to everyone else. One person might see those nifty new passives and want the path of least resistance to acquire them (or in this case, make an argument that they've already been earned), while others casually notice the passives and figure that they'll get them eventually during the course of fulfilling daily pledges as they chase the sweet new gear.

Basically, you can't generalize a subjectively perceived punishment from yourself to other players as you cannot know whether or not their goals/perceptions and yours are identical.

In my case, I want the gear, and I lament the fact that I'll most likely run a lot of dungeons (over & over) and acquire a lot of useless bind-on-pickup gear before I finally get a matching head/shoulder set that I *can* use. While I acknowledge how cool those new passives look, they're not at the top of my priority list, so I don't feel the least bit "punished" for not being awarded those passives, retroactively, to reflect the time I spent farming dungeon achievements after reaching level five in the Undaunted skill line.

It may not even be possible to retroactively grant the skill line XP, depending on how that number used to be changed/maintained on the backend. It might not be an issue of fairness -- it could be they simply didn't keep incrementing the XP variable for the Undaunted skill line once it reached level five, making it nearly impossible (or at least prohibitively difficult) to determine who should be credited what for past efforts. For example, when new crafting achievements dropped with armor dyes in Update 3, a lot of crafters were upset they weren't credited for the materials they'd farmed/deconstructed up to that point, but there simply wasn't anything to be done about it because those things weren't being counted before the achievement existed -- why would they?

I could be persuaded that having all dungeon achievements fulfilled on a single toon could (maybe should) warrant retroactively granting the XP necessary to unlock those passives, but the practical issue then becomes how to treat the players who had all of the dungeon achievements fulfilled *but one or two* -- did they do enough to warrant retroactively granting the XP? And how about the folks who did most of them, but are only missing three or four achievements? And so on...

The perceived gradient of a theoretical "fairness" curve will always be a vague, subjective nightmare that nobody can interpolate objectively, especially when you are a point on that curve, yourself.

Gillysan · November 2014

Adhal wrote: »

Gillysan wrote: »

Yeah, stop whining. The problem with this game in general is that leveling was too easy. The result is they have to scramble to keep people interested in the game. The other result is threads like this, where some people feel left out or short changed because of some change to the leveling experience in this game.

They made a fundamental error when releasing this game. People will *** & whine, but they will grind. They *** more when they don't have something to grind.

Umm a majority left because vr rank leveling sucked, this patch was supposed to alleviate that until champ system came out. Instead ATM it is worse. No one wants to spend 15-20 playtime leveling so they can run endgame stuff with their friends

Good, then they won't be around to water down this easy peazy game anymore.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · November 2014

giving retroactive exp for the achievments is a much better solution. your suggestion just screws people who arnt in a rush but wish to do the old achievments. the best part of the pledge is that its easy to find groups willing to do hardmode. the people who are already are grinding the levels up already will have it by any change that could be made; taking away form the rest is not fixing the situation it only further benefits people to hold off and grind when its the most rewarding.

starkerealm · November 2014

Gillysan wrote: »

Adhal wrote: »

Gillysan wrote: »

Yeah, stop whining. The problem with this game in general is that leveling was too easy. The result is they have to scramble to keep people interested in the game. The other result is threads like this, where some people feel left out or short changed because of some change to the leveling experience in this game.

They made a fundamental error when releasing this game. People will *** & whine, but they will grind. They *** more when they don't have something to grind.

Umm a majority left because vr rank leveling sucked, this patch was supposed to alleviate that until champ system came out. Instead ATM it is worse. No one wants to spend 15-20 playtime leveling so they can run endgame stuff with their friends

Good, then they won't be around to water down this easy peazy game anymore.

Yeah, the game doesn't need paying subscribers, they're only holding us back... no... wait...

diablo.brocub18_ESO · November 2014

Pls respond ZOS, I feel heavily punished for finishing most of the hard mode achievements months ago...

ATLEAST unlock it again for us if you aren't going the retroactive route

Black_Wolf88 · November 2014

at last we were able to get a response here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1367990#Comment_1367990

A thread made a couple of days ago in the support section

not the answer we were looking for but maybe they will make a turn around if enough ppl complain.

Ysne58 · November 2014

Sounds to me like they should just make everyone do the undaunted stuff all over again if they aren't going to back credit the skill line for all those achievements.

Hortator Mopa · November 2014

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

Repeating dungeon content was *the intent* of the new Undaunted additions, was it not? That's why the loot drops are so provocative -- to make you go back for the chance of awesome one and two-piece bonus sets that give you a special proc based on the boss monster from which the head and shoulder pieces came. Same with the new passives, which are also an incentive for players who already had the Undaunted line maxed out.

Besides... You're going to have to repeat the same dungeon a lot of times to get the sets you want, as you have no control over which two dungeons are going to be today's pledges.

Of course, that's assuming you *want* that gear, which is probably at the heart of this discussion -- what we each want out of this game, individually, may not generalize to everyone else. One person might see those nifty new passives and want the path of least resistance to acquire them (or in this case, make an argument that they've already been earned), while others casually notice the passives and figure that they'll get them eventually during the course of fulfilling daily pledges as they chase the sweet new gear.

Basically, you can't generalize a subjectively perceived punishment from yourself to other players as you cannot know whether or not their goals/perceptions and yours are identical.

In my case, I want the gear, and I lament the fact that I'll most likely run a lot of dungeons (over & over) and acquire a lot of useless bind-on-pickup gear before I finally get a matching head/shoulder set that I *can* use. While I acknowledge how cool those new passives look, they're not at the top of my priority list, so I don't feel the least bit "punished" for not being awarded those passives, retroactively, to reflect the time I spent farming dungeon achievements after reaching level five in the Undaunted skill line.

It may not even be possible to retroactively grant the skill line XP, depending on how that number used to be changed/maintained on the backend. It might not be an issue of fairness -- it could be they simply didn't keep incrementing the XP variable for the Undaunted skill line once it reached level five, making it nearly impossible (or at least prohibitively difficult) to determine who should be credited what for past efforts. For example, when new crafting achievements dropped with armor dyes in Update 3, a lot of crafters were upset they weren't credited for the materials they'd farmed/deconstructed up to that point, but there simply wasn't anything to be done about it because those things weren't being counted before the achievement existed -- why would they?

I could be persuaded that having all dungeon achievements fulfilled on a single toon could (maybe should) warrant retroactively granting the XP necessary to unlock those passives, but the practical issue then becomes how to treat the players who had all of the dungeon achievements fulfilled *but one or two* -- did they do enough to warrant retroactively granting the XP? And how about the folks who did most of them, but are only missing three or four achievements? And so on...

The perceived gradient of a theoretical "fairness" curve will always be a vague, subjective nightmare that nobody can interpolate objectively, especially when you are a point on that curve, yourself.

So because you don't care about the passives no one can? The large majority here do want a even and fair playing field when it comes to getting those achievements.

Just because you are not losing the ability to play the way you feel is right does not mean others are not.

"Basically, you can't generalize a subjectively perceived punishment from yourself to other players as you cannot know whether or not their goals/perceptions and yours are identical." - you

Its not about what I feel or a goal tbh, Behind all this its about being fair..

Black and white no mater what people want or think the game is about.. there are people who are now at a disadvantage. Not because of lack of effort, not because of something they can change. They are at a disadvantage and CANT do anything to change that disadvantage.

This is a simple black and white topic with no grey area...

It does not matter if you can still do it. -Its slower
It does not matter if the dungeons repeat - you can do the ones not on pledge that day and get it within 40 mins from 5-7
The passives are a huge boast and needed to be a top tier player - Thus we are held back for far longer
"you just want the gear" - Yes I do and I can still get that at the same pace as others, thats not the problem...
"I could understand if they did all the achievements" - I literally have none left in any achievement section apart from a few trials one (prior to update 5) - This however does not matter as anyone who did ANY would be at a slight to huge disadvantage.
"There is a huge fairness curve" - Its pretty simple, No matter how hard we try, how long we play, it will always take longer and be harder for us now. THAT is the definition of a unfair challenge almost..

You sound smart, why is this topic not simple for you.

Gillysan wrote: »

Yeah, stop whining. The problem with this game in general is that leveling was too easy. The result is they have to scramble to keep people interested in the game. The other result is threads like this, where some people feel left out or short changed because of some change to the leveling experience in this game.

They made a fundamental error when releasing this game. People will *** & whine, but they will grind. They *** more when they don't have something to grind.

This is not about leveling fast, this is about leveling at the same pace as someone else. It is impossible for people like me to level at the same pace as someone who didn't do the achievements, not because of skill, effort or anything. Purely because the game wont allow it now.

Unlikely_Ghostbuster · November 2014

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

So because you don't care about the passives no one can? The large majority here do want a even and fair playing field when it comes to getting those achievements.

Just because you are not losing the ability to play the way you feel is right does not mean others are not.

Nope, never said or even attempted to imply either of those things. I simply pointed out that I don't care as evidence that there are people (like me) with circumstances identical to your own who don't share your outrage because they don't play the same way you do -- they have different priorities. One ought not presume to project their thoughts/feelings onto other people. I'm not sure how to say that any simpler. Never implied "no one can" -- I only said it's possible that nobody does except you.

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

"Basically, you can't generalize a subjectively perceived punishment from yourself to other players as you cannot know whether or not their goals/perceptions and yours are identical." - you

Its not about what I feel or a goal tbh, Behind all this its about being fair..

Black and white no mater what people want or think the game is about.. there are people who are now at a disadvantage. Not because of lack of effort, not because of something they can change. They are at a disadvantage and CANT do anything to change that disadvantage.

This is a simple black and white topic with no grey area...

I see a lot of talk about fairness, but no real argument. Just asserting things should be fair, then asserting what you want is fair, therefor you should have things your way. That is not sound or valid reasoning.

Especially when you've stodgily declared the situation "black and white," which would imply only two ways things can be..... Which isn't remotely true, as there are many ways things can be, like the status-quo, whatever it is you want, and about a thousand other possibilities for the future of the Undaunted skill line. Dramatizing your language to imply a moral absolutism doesn't bolster your point of view when there is no metaphoric parallel. A point of view, I should add, that I was *overly* charitable towards.

Your entire argument about "fairness" is totally moot if they're not able to do it. ZOS can't give you the XP if they did not track it. Just because they could have tracked how many times you beat each dungeon doesn't imply they did. They didn't start tracking deconstructed gear until there was an achievement for it. There wasn't a reason to track that until the achievement existed, so no retroactive points were credited, and it had nothing to do with fair or unfair -- the number didn't exist. So even master craftsmen with every skill line maxed at 50 had to begin crafting achievements (that would have already been achieved had ZOS been counting them, prior) at zero. Again, not fair, just the way it was.

I did my very best to courteously point out the *practical* obstacles and concerns that make retroactively crediting your toon XP for the Undanted skill line prohibitively untenable. And I'm not really feeling charitable enough to your plight (anymore) to list them, again.

Group dungeons are fun. Having new reasons to go back and do them again is a *good* thing. If playing the game is just too much of a burden for you, unsubscribe and move on. As it is, too much time has been wasted considering this coulda-shoulda thread.

So let me bottom-line this for you, once and for all -- if you want those passives unlocked, you're going to have to run those dungeons again.

Hortator Mopa · November 2014

Simple dot points in reply.
"May be possible only you feel this" - A lot of people are in agreement with me, only a few are not.
"My situation is the same and I still don't care" - It does not matter what I think OR what you think. It is about the game mechanics stopping people and allowing others. Without reason, without a way to work harder or put in more time to bridge the gap. Thus bad game design and a disadvantage.
"I don't see anything unfair" - So stopping certain players from having the same pace of game play is fair to you?
"If they cant do it then your argument is invalid" - Wrong it still would be as it is a situation in which others are at a disadvantage whether they care or not. I also didnt say we should get back credited. Learn to read. I said all exp from 5-7 should only be gained from the new update 5 achievements so no one gets exp faster or slower, thus even playing field.

"So let me bottom-line this for you, once and for all -- if you want those passives unlocked, you're going to have to run those dungeons again." - you

Yea I will have to farm new achievements that are slower and harder when others can go do old ones in 40 mins to be max while I am going for weeks if not months.

You can speak yourself up as much as you want and appear to be educated through a intense vocab but you have no idea how a game is designed (or should be).

This IS a simple thing to understand, Some are at a disadvantage whether you care or not about it affecting you. That is unfair and intensified by the fact that its not based on effort or skill but purely a game mechanic and lack of design.

So let me bottom line this for YOU instead
This is not a problem of skill, effort or time.
This is a game implementation that stops others regardless of those above steps.
Allows some a possible route, regardless if they want to take any and others a cliff face to tirelessly need to get past.
A huge "we dont care about people who actually play our game content" and leaves a question.. "What are we doing in game now that will put us at a disadvantage later".

I had maybe 3 trial achievements to go and 1 impossible to do achievement in VET dungeon achievements (The CoA one that needed update 5 anyways) EVERY other achievement was done.

You say you are in the same boat? Link a picture of every section done in all dungeon achievements. (Aside from the new update 5 ones)

No one with a brain would think this is fair. Even if they are not affected...

Hortator Mopa · November 2014

Even if no one cared about this, Not a single person was complaining. This would still be a poor design. Limiting others without the ability to work past it with effort, time, skill? Its breaking the basic game design rule of "Effort for Reward" and leaving nothing but "Effort for punishment". ONCE AGAIN because you seem to be stuck on this stupid idea, it does not matter who cares or if no one does. It is a poor design with or without people feeling the limitations.

seanvwolf · November 2014

There's something inherently odd about the idea of playing an MMO as a completionist. Achievements change and are updated as content changes.

Running vet dungeons without concentrating on just the achievement completion points is still doable and much less taxing on time than what you are suggesting. More like a few days rather than a few months.

Hortator Mopa · November 2014

seanvwolf wrote: »

There's something inherently odd about the idea of playing an MMO as a completionist. Achievements change and are updated as content changes.

It is a struggle at first but once you are 100% complete all you need to do is keep doing them once the updates come.The problem is they can get overwhelming and stack up. Thus why thousands did all the dungeon achievements before update 5. Only to find out it is a disadvantage now.

seanvwolf wrote: »

Running vet dungeons without concentrating on just the achievement completion points is still doable and much less taxing on time than what you are suggesting. More like a few days rather than a few months.

It is much easier and much less taxing, I agree. However for thousands of players fun is derived from completing the game in its entirety.

The problem here is not just running a dungeon and saying "I have done that". The problem is the new exp is gained from achievement points and lots of people cant do it at the same speed as those who didn't because they have done a lot if not all the achievements already prior to update 5.

G0ku · November 2014

My alt already has more experience in the Undaunted skilltree than my main with which I have done all vet dungeon achievements before the 1.5 patch. And my alt even hasn´t achieved all the hardmode things yet. Sucks hard, please fix.

qiyamatawilrwb17_ESO · November 2014

as a self confessed completist let me get this right...
you are upset there are new achievements???
im an altaholic ive still gotta do it 4 times min.
also... theres gonna be more content.
look at it this way, you have something to work towards to satisfy your OCD.

Hortator Mopa · November 2014

qiyamatawilrwb17_ESO wrote: »

as a self confessed completist let me get this right...
you are upset there are new achievements???
im an altaholic ive still gotta do it 4 times min.
also... theres gonna be more content.
look at it this way, you have something to work towards to satisfy your OCD.

Hello thank you for commenting.

I am upset that people like myself and others have a disadvantage in any way to any other player even though we have done more. Not only that but (I feel like I am repeating myself) there is no way to work harder, put more time in or anything to even the playing field.

This has nothing to do with anything BUT whats fair. Underline: Players are now able to level faster then others without a skill edge or time edge. Don't need a interactive entertainment bachelor with a major in games design to understand this.

Robocles · November 2014

chipputer wrote: »

Adhal wrote: »

And now anyone who didn't get vr14,or close to it at least is being told "screw you, you don't matter. No endgame for you! Wait till champion system in 2-6 months. Change the way you play, k thanks, goodbye."

What?

Really?

Where?

Can you quote it?

Can you link me to it?

Because I'll bet you can't.

He is a bit off topic, but, if you can spend... oh... 12 seconds looking at other threads, you'd see that is exactly the case.

Robocles · November 2014

Gillysan wrote: »

Yeah, stop whining. The problem with this game in general is that leveling was too easy. The result is they have to scramble to keep people interested in the game. The other result is threads like this, where some people feel left out or short changed because of some change to the leveling experience in this game.

They made a fundamental error when releasing this game. People will *** & whine, but they will grind. They *** more when they don't have something to grind.

Reputation and gear grinds are very different than blind leveling grinds. At least if you can level, you can participate in all content, if you so desire. If you can't level, well, you figure that part out.

Black_Wolf88 · November 2014

patch notes for 1.5.3 is out and still no back credit for vr dungeon achievements.

they did add more points for silver and gold key, though not stating how much more. so only after completing tomorrows pledges ( eu ) I can see by how much. US will know later today.

Hortator Mopa · November 2014

Black_Wolf88 wrote: »

patch notes for 1.5.3 is out and still no back credit for vr dungeon achievements.

they did add more points for silver and gold key, though not stating how much more. so only after completing tomorrows pledges ( eu ) I can see by how much. US will know later today.

That does not change the fact someone can do older and quicker achievements to level to max FAR faster then others in our situation. A band-aid to a amputated leg of a design idea..

I don't even want to do the other achievements unless they *** me later for doing it.

eliisra · November 2014

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

I am upset that people like myself and others have a disadvantage in any way to any other player even though we have done more. Not only that but (I feel like I am repeating myself) there is no way to work harder, put more time in or anything to even the playing field.

Not sure you're 100% right about that. You can't seem to speed grind VR achievements for Undaunted any more. They removed most of it. I cant even catch up to level 5 on my alts, since literally nothing awards Undaunted exp but those 2 bloody quests. Completed several achievements (including HM) since patch 1.5.2 and nothing. The skill line didn't move an inch.

Only thing I'm getting exp for is the 5-10 points for a first time clear.

Than again, there's still a few basic dungeons achievements I'm uncertain of like higher tiers of block, heal, dmg, slaying named etc. Still need to test that. But the all the VR achievements that granted you 50+, are gone. So you're not largely disadvantaged. But yes, I understand the frustration.

Hortator Mopa · November 2014

People I know got it in a few hours doing hard modes with a top tier group. Time trials / No death / challenge mode and clearing achievement can be done in 10 minutes in CoH and less in other dungeons.

I dont know why your situation is different but I assure you its easy if you didnt do it prior to update.

Magdalina · November 2014

@Hortator Mopa, thank you, that's the most mature and thought out post I've seen on the subject yet - actually probably one of most mature I've seen in this forums, period. You get awesome points for that:P

I agree. Would type a long raging post but you summed up my thoughts(and the thoughts of anyone who'd done Undaunted achieves prior to 1.5) up pretty well. We're being punished for doing more harder content - hell, we're pretty much being told we should NOT try to do more content because if they release new skilltrees or something of the kind, we'll never get credit for them. It'd happened before with deconstruction/refinement/collectible achievements, but I can at least understand the problem with those - the first 2 were simply not tracked before the achievement, the 3rd was broken for everyone(though it should have been fixed faster - at this point my vet 1 month-old alt has found more collectibles than my vet 14 with ~11800 achievement points). However, there's no excuse for not backtracking Undaunted experience. The achievements are there. They even have a date stamp on them - how hard is it to compare the date of these achievements to the date of Undaunted skill master achievement to see how much experience had been gained above rank 5?

They should be rewarding people for staying with them and trying for the harder content - instead they're releasing some stupid(imho) useless(fact) pets and actually punishing us game-wise.

P.S. Totally unrelated, but you have more achievement points than me...I'm in awe=3

Cherryblossom · November 2014

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

Undaunted achievements should back credit your Undaunted XP. There's zero reason for it not to. There's no argument against it. The achievements are tracked, the points are there, just recount them.

I do agree, however the old post I made had soooo much hate for that idea.
People don't want us to get credit for things we have done BUT they also dont want to have a even playing field and for all of us to only be able to level 5-7 doing the same achievements.

To a lot of people its not a problem unless it stops them from leveling as freely.

I don't agree with you getting the levels Automatically, purely on the basis if new level are added, it's important that people should earn them based on what they do after they are added.
However, I agree with the fact that you should not be at a disadvantage because you have already got all the achievements, this is a Development issue caused by ZOS not understanding how leveling works in their own game. This should be addressed.
I think you should of created your thread based on the Development team not understanding the leveling process, rather than in a way where many people think you are asking for something for nothing because you have already done some stuff in the game prior to a patch.

Robocles · November 2014

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

Undaunted achievements should back credit your Undaunted XP. There's zero reason for it not to. There's no argument against it. The achievements are tracked, the points are there, just recount them.

I do agree, however the old post I made had soooo much hate for that idea.
People don't want us to get credit for things we have done BUT they also dont want to have a even playing field and for all of us to only be able to level 5-7 doing the same achievements.

To a lot of people its not a problem unless it stops them from leveling as freely.

I don't agree with you getting the levels Automatically, purely on the basis if new level are added, it's important that people should earn them based on what they do after they are added.
However, I agree with the fact that you should not be at a disadvantage because you have already got all the achievements, this is a Development issue caused by ZOS not understanding how leveling works in their own game. This should be addressed.
I think you should of created your thread based on the Development team not understanding the leveling process, rather than in a way where many people think you are asking for something for nothing because you have already done some stuff in the game prior to a patch.

He did.

Hortator Mopa · November 2014

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

Undaunted achievements should back credit your Undaunted XP. There's zero reason for it not to. There's no argument against it. The achievements are tracked, the points are there, just recount them.

I do agree, however the old post I made had soooo much hate for that idea.
People don't want us to get credit for things we have done BUT they also dont want to have a even playing field and for all of us to only be able to level 5-7 doing the same achievements.

To a lot of people its not a problem unless it stops them from leveling as freely.

I don't agree with you getting the levels Automatically, purely on the basis if new level are added, it's important that people should earn them based on what they do after they are added.
However, I agree with the fact that you should not be at a disadvantage because you have already got all the achievements, this is a Development issue caused by ZOS not understanding how leveling works in their own game. This should be addressed.
I think you should of created your thread based on the Development team not understanding the leveling process, rather than in a way where many people think you are asking for something for nothing because you have already done some stuff in the game prior to a patch.

The opposite actually. I am not asking for anything... In the OP I say that it should base experience from 5-7 ONLY on new achievements added. The back credit was brought up later and is not my focus.

Thank you for the reply Magdalina
I will be keeping this going for a long time, I would rather quit then play a game that punishes players for playing the content... even if its a TES game...

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 · November 2014

holy ***!! ah common!! didnt thought about that.I was looking at those passives and i have to say i want them very bad!But yeah,i did most achievements prior to update 5.And today i did my 1st pledge and dude!! they really give crap undaunted xp.Yeah i gess im in with those who got punished for being completionists

way to go ZOS,please do something.Im with OP here.

Hortator Mopa · November 2014

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

holy ***!! ah common!! didnt thought about that.I was looking at those passives and i have to say i want them very bad!But yeah,i did most achievements prior to update 5.And today i did my 1st pledge and dude!! they really give crap undaunted xp.Yeah i gess im in with those who got punished for being completionists way to go ZOS,please do something.Im with OP here.

how many will it take ZoS, fix your dud design please.

Robocles · November 2014

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

holy ***!! ah common!! didnt thought about that.I was looking at those passives and i have to say i want them very bad!But yeah,i did most achievements prior to update 5.And today i did my 1st pledge and dude!! they really give crap undaunted xp.Yeah i gess im in with those who got punished for being completionists way to go ZOS,please do something.Im with OP here.

how many will it take ZoS, fix your dud design please.

It's going to take a lot of people deciding they don't trust their design decisions. Plenty of us already gave up on them actually implementing them in any smooth manner.