Punished for playing the game

Hortator Mopa

Robocles wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

holy ***!! ah common!! didnt thought about that.I was looking at those passives and i have to say i want them very bad!But yeah,i did most achievements prior to update 5.And today i did my 1st pledge and dude!! they really give crap undaunted xp.Yeah i gess im in with those who got punished for being completionists way to go ZOS,please do something.Im with OP here.

how many will it take ZoS, fix your dud design please.

It's going to take a lot of people deciding they don't trust their design decisions. Plenty of us already gave up on them actually implementing them in any smooth manner.

I agree.

Magdalina

Robocles wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

holy ***!! ah common!! didnt thought about that.I was looking at those passives and i have to say i want them very bad!But yeah,i did most achievements prior to update 5.And today i did my 1st pledge and dude!! they really give crap undaunted xp.Yeah i gess im in with those who got punished for being completionists way to go ZOS,please do something.Im with OP here.

how many will it take ZoS, fix your dud design please.

It's going to take a lot of people deciding they don't trust their design decisions. Plenty of us already gave up on them actually implementing them in any smooth manner.

Well, on a more optimistic note...when lots of people complain, they do change things. Eventually.

Problem is they do with a hammer what should be done with pincers.

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

LOL -- Good luck with the revolution, boys.

qiyamatawilrwb17_ESO

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

qiyamatawilrwb17_ESO wrote: »

as a self confessed completist let me get this right...
you are upset there are new achievements???
im an altaholic ive still gotta do it 4 times min.
also... theres gonna be more content.
look at it this way, you have something to work towards to satisfy your OCD.

Hello thank you for commenting.

I am upset that people like myself and others have a disadvantage in any way to any other player even though we have done more. Not only that but (I feel like I am repeating myself) there is no way to work harder, put more time in or anything to even the playing field.

This has nothing to do with anything BUT whats fair. Underline: Players are now able to level faster then others without a skill edge or time edge. Don't need a interactive entertainment bachelor with a major in games design to understand this.

i think you'll find its a lot harder to level a character aside from the skills nowadays. as i am eeking out Vet3, (i have a V13 & V12) it feels like a much slower slog to me. and now there are distractions from grinding away questing with dailies etc. i dont mind leveling slower, vet ranks seemed pretty rushed before patch. but since all faction quests are available to each character you will always be repeating yourself. depends how much it still entertains you.
this is why i have and would suggested continued storylines for vets in the other factions exclusive to your original faction.

Robocles

Unlikely_Ghostbuster wrote: »

LOL -- Good luck with the revolution, boys.

LOL - thanks for the vacuous post, boy.

Asia_Skyly

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Well, players who have played the game prior to update 5 and actually achievement hunted and wanted to participate in game content are being punished with less wiggle room to quickly level undaunted. While a player who maybe just grinded in crag to 14 then pvped can quickly go do some easier vet dungeon achievement and in a single night get maxed undaunted (without even needing to do a single pledge).

You are absolutely right! I feel doubly shafted. Like you, I too enjoyed achievement hunting and feel punished for having done so. I watch everyone else cackle with glee because they did not do achievements before and now are half way to Undaunted 7. Meanwhile I am sitting here stuck at 5.

Second, I am STILL missing 4 skill point from the group challenges in various public dungeons. To this day I am awaiting for the "We are working on a comprehensive solution" to the skill points I am missing. I don't think they care any more. Early adopters of the public dungeon (first few weeks of the game) are being punished for their early support.

It is demoralizing.

Hortator Mopa

The problem is still around, Can someone from ZoS explain if playing the game will mean in update 6 we will be punished?.... YAWN

Hortator Mopa

Still waiting on that reply devs....

reften

Player skill and group tactics will always be greater than a few extra passives by a HUGE long shot.

You're a completionist. You should enjoy the challenge of getting to the highest level of undaunted.

It's not much different than completing a trial...and a week later the devs add a new cool item that drops at the trials.

I hear ya and understand your frustration, but, what will you do when you complete the game? Stop playing? Don't think Zen wants that.

Armitas

How the heck are people defending this? When would it ever be a good idea to implement a system that would cause the player base to hesitate about completing an achievement or reading a lore book?

Completing an achievement or reading a lore book should always be all pluses, no negatives.

Hortator Mopa

Armitas wrote: »

How the heck are people defending this? When would it ever be a good idea to implement a system that would cause the player base to hesitate about completing an achievement or reading a lore book?

Completing an achievement or reading a lore book should always be all pluses, no negatives.

yeap...

No excuse, no good side to it, nothing.

Artorious

Armitas wrote: »

How the heck are people defending this? When would it ever be a good idea to implement a system that would cause the player base to hesitate about completing an achievement or reading a lore book?

Completing an achievement or reading a lore book should always be all pluses, no negatives.

People who are defending this are doing it just for the sake of arguments.

Why you ask? Probably because they are bored.

I mean, there are comments like - 'life is not fair' and 'grow up'. I mean seriously....??? Both of those comments don't even apply even 1% to a topic like this.

Though the 'life is not fair' comment always cracks me up, when it's used in a video game.

whsprwind

Artorious wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

How the heck are people defending this? When would it ever be a good idea to implement a system that would cause the player base to hesitate about completing an achievement or reading a lore book?

Completing an achievement or reading a lore book should always be all pluses, no negatives.

People who are defending this are doing it just for the sake of arguments.

Why you ask? Probably because they are bored.

I mean, there are comments like - 'life is not fair' and 'grow up'. I mean seriously....??? Both of those comments don't even apply even 1% to a topic like this.

Though the 'life is not fair' comment always cracks me up, when it's used in a video game.

So much truth awesome for you!

Xjcon

I don't see why they couldn't credit you those points for the achievements you have already completed. But were those done easily by you as a solo vr12 while the rest now have to do them as a scaled version?

Black_Wolf88

Xjcon wrote: »

I don't see why they couldn't credit you those points for the achievements you have already completed. But were those done easily by you as a solo vr12 while the rest now have to do them as a scaled version?

Wrong. it was not easy.
it was and still is only veteran dungeon and trial achievements that gave/give undaunted points. and those dungeons were set to vr5 and vr10, crypt of hears came later with vr12.
There were no option for lowering the dungeon difficulty.

Most of the "hard mode" end bosses in the vr dugneons were a lot harder to complete.
Wayrest sewers you didnt get a 2nd attempt to kill 15 zombies while killing the boss like you do now where the zombies resets.
elden hollow had more adds spawning. both white and black, and once set to hard mode you had to complete in hard mode. now when you wipe you can choose to do hard mode again or go normal mode on hte boss.
stuff like that in other dungeons as well.

the speed achievements were also a lot harder to do. back then most ppl were vr10 at most, same as the dungeon before level went up to vr12. but still a lot harder than now where you can get vr1 dungeons with 4x vr14 chars.

Basically we who did a lot of the vr dungeon achievements ages ago deserves to be credited for what we have done a lot more than people who havent done any achievement and completes them now after 1.5. Because we spent more time and effort while doing them with higher difficulty.

Hortator Mopa

Black_Wolf88 wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

I don't see why they couldn't credit you those points for the achievements you have already completed. But were those done easily by you as a solo vr12 while the rest now have to do them as a scaled version?

Wrong. it was not easy.
it was and still is only veteran dungeon and trial achievements that gave/give undaunted points. and those dungeons were set to vr5 and vr10, crypt of hears came later with vr12.
There were no option for lowering the dungeon difficulty.

Most of the "hard mode" end bosses in the vr dugneons were a lot harder to complete.
Wayrest sewers you didnt get a 2nd attempt to kill 15 zombies while killing the boss like you do now where the zombies resets.
elden hollow had more adds spawning. both white and black, and once set to hard mode you had to complete in hard mode. now when you wipe you can choose to do hard mode again or go normal mode on hte boss.
stuff like that in other dungeons as well.

the speed achievements were also a lot harder to do. back then most ppl were vr10 at most, same as the dungeon before level went up to vr12. but still a lot harder than now where you can get vr1 dungeons with 4x vr14 chars.

Basically we who did a lot of the vr dungeon achievements ages ago deserves to be credited for what we have done a lot more than people who havent done any achievement and completes them now after 1.5. Because we spent more time and effort while doing them with higher difficulty.

So right!

Artorious

With all pre-1.5 dungeons achievements done (apart from some of the veteran slayer ones and the new trials, and from what I've heard, these don't count for Undaunted anyway), so, how is one expected to rank Undaunted to 10?

It takes about 1-2 hours to find a group at the time I play for pledges and then also it is a not a guarantee of completing the dungeons, mostly I have been ill-lucked with finding casuals only, who keep wiping and then bailing.

Each rank is taking 200 points and there are 5 new ones to 10 now, meaning 1000 points to max rank and only 30 points per day for people who have completed the major big achievements which counted for Undaunted points.

Even if do take this road of doing dailies, everyday for 30-40 days, assuming I successfully complete them, depending on the quality of the group, I then get Undaunted to max, for something that I already should have gotten, considering the fact that I took the time to complete the achievements, pre 1.5.

(Why do I want Undaunted at max? Because I use Synergies a lot as a tank, so the passives are a win for me).

I expect credit for my achievements, thank you.

P.S: And here is some pictorial proof of my deeds.

Hortator Mopa

I feel you... Hopefully they will fix it or at least reply.

xaraan

I agree that it's kind of a bummer for those of us that already got all the dungeon achieves, leveling will happen soon enough. One thing though -- the rank 7 passive is NOT needed to be a top tier player lol. There have been plenty of top tier players handling all the content before that even existed.

Amsel_McKay

Asia_Skyly wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Well, players who have played the game prior to update 5 and actually achievement hunted and wanted to participate in game content are being punished with less wiggle room to quickly level undaunted. While a player who maybe just grinded in crag to 14 then pvped can quickly go do some easier vet dungeon achievement and in a single night get maxed undaunted (without even needing to do a single pledge).

You are absolutely right! I feel doubly shafted. Like you, I too enjoyed achievement hunting and feel punished for having done so. I watch everyone else cackle with glee because they did not do achievements before and now are half way to Undaunted 7. Meanwhile I am sitting here stuck at 5.

Second, I am STILL missing 4 skill point from the group challenges in various public dungeons. To this day I am awaiting for the "We are working on a comprehensive solution" to the skill points I am missing. I don't think they care any more. Early adopters of the public dungeon (first few weeks of the game) are being punished for their early support.

It is demoralizing.

I lost about 100k with the banking bug and tons of stuff... I never got it back, my main is missing 6 skill points. I just have to assume I will never get any of that back and at this point my alt is getting everything.

Hortator Mopa

xaraan wrote: »

I agree that it's kind of a bummer for those of us that already got all the dungeon achieves, leveling will happen soon enough. One thing though -- the rank 7 passive is NOT needed to be a top tier player lol. There have been plenty of top tier players handling all the content before that even existed.

Top tier = the best.
The best = all benefits possible.
Even if its just 0.00000001% of a benefit.

Hortator Mopa

Lets bump this up, not a SINGLE dev has responded.

I see they are doing the "head in the sand" technique of game design.

Merrak

Adhal wrote: »

And now anyone who didn't get vr14,or close to it at least is being told "screw you, you don't matter. No endgame for you! Wait till champion system in 2-6 months. Change the way you play, k thanks, goodbye."

Wait...you are saying you think you should be able to end game raid if you aren't around v10+?

Sorry, but I agree with that. Groups shouldn't be "held back" because a v1 DPS with 1.8k health feels he should be able to raid. They have already opened up Arenas to any Vet level, no need to nerf Trials for it too.

Wreuntzylla

Same issue when nirnhoned came out. Maxed crafters had to wait 30 days to profit from nirnhone, or roll and level an alt, while anyone who did not craft or dallied along the way could learn the new trait in hours.

Nirnhoned research gear is still selling for 10k+ gold... So the punishment was a huge loss of revenue, on the scale of at least hundreds of thousands of gold, over the first few days.

Oddly, the inequality issue on this scale makes me rage. I am not the raging type.

Koga

So ARE we getting undaunted skill line XP credit for having completed the achives b4 update 5?

*Shameless Bump*

Hortator Mopa

Koga wrote: »

So ARE we getting undaunted skill line XP credit for having completed the achives b4 update 5?

*Shameless Bump*

olemanwinter

Adhal wrote: »

Maybe instead of changing the"way" I play I should just change "what" I play.

THIS.

We aren't asking for the moon here. People aren't wavering on playing because we don't have flying dragon mounted combat in pvp or some such thing.

We want basic fairness, basic balancing, and no punitive game mechanics!

It's like the Devs think that because if you work more in real life you get taxed more that maybe if you play more in the game you should be penalized with more challenging progression.

axiomaticb14a_ESO

The level 6 passive is quite good and the level 7 passive is absolutely needed to be a top tier player. How is this a problem?

Level 6 passive is nice, but not necessary. Everyone's already beaten all the existing content without it, so while its a nice little boost, its not earth shattering.

Where do you get the idea that level 7 passive is absolutely needed? At most its going to give a passive 2% increase in stats, which again is a nice little boost, but nowhere near necessary. An extra 50 mana or 70 hp is not a game changer. And no one who's looked at the numbers is going to wear all 3 armor types just for an additional 1% and gimp the specific armor type passives.

Hortator Mopa

axiomaticb14a_ESO wrote: »

The level 6 passive is quite good and the level 7 passive is absolutely needed to be a top tier player. How is this a problem?

Level 6 passive is nice, but not necessary. Everyone's already beaten all the existing content without it, so while its a nice little boost, its not earth shattering.

Where do you get the idea that level 7 passive is absolutely needed? At most its going to give a passive 2% increase in stats, which again is a nice little boost, but nowhere near necessary. An extra 50 mana or 70 hp is not a game changer. And no one who's looked at the numbers is going to wear all 3 armor types just for an additional 1% and gimp the specific armor type passives.

Top tier = the best
The best = have all benefits
have a ll benefits = have all passives that give said benefits

It does not mater how small it is, its the fact that some cant get it fairly.

zZzleepyhead

You point out a valid error in ZOS' development. Hopefully this gets resolved soon and they can learn something about implementing things in the future.
I'm surprised how many people are still commenting without any regards to the topic in a clarification thread - honestly wtf is going on lol
EDIT: deleted off-topic argument...
Sleepyead