Punished for playing the game

Hortator Mopa

Hello forum dwellers.

So I made a post about this earlier but it seemed to get a lot of 50/50 responses ranging from hate to total agreement. I think a lot of the people not agreeing with the topic just didn't know what was going on and jumped to conclusions so I am making this new thread and will describe the situation better.

Update 5 added a lot of new things and along with it they added 2 more levels to undaunted. With those levels came the ability to use 2 new passives per level in that skill line. The level 6 passive is quite good and the level 7 passive is absolutely needed to be a top tier player. How is this a problem?

Well, undaunted experience is based off of Vet Dungeon achievements etc. Prior to update 5 you could finish the achievements and that's what people like I did. I play the game as a completionist and before update 5 I had completed every dungeon related achievement in game apart from some hard trials achievements such as sanctum. I literally had zero achievement to completed in all "dungeon" achievement sub categories apart from the one Vet ash achievement that couldn't be done that was located in Vet Dungeon achievements and a few trials related one.

This means when update 5 released I had zero old achievements I could go back and do to level my undaunted. The only way I could now max undaunted is to complete every new achievement. They are far slower to complete and more difficult. For example to complete Vet Undaunted pledges x100 would take a minimum of 100x20 hours = 2000 hours or 83.3 days (If I NEVER miss a day and do it EVERY 20 hours on the dot).

What does this leave?
Well, players who have played the game prior to update 5 and actually achievement hunted and wanted to participate in game content are being punished with less wiggle room to quickly level undaunted. While a player who maybe just grinded in crag to 14 then pvped can quickly go do some easier vet dungeon achievement and in a single night get maxed undaunted (without even needing to do a single pledge).

Ultimately it comes down to this...
If you played game content and finished achievements you will have less chance of leveling undaunted at a even pace with other players who did nothing.

How can this be fixed?
I think its stupid to punish a player and make them at a disadvantage for actually playing the game content. I suggest that the new undaunted exp from 5-7 cant be gained unless it is through doing the NEW update 5 vet achievements.

How is that fair?
Players who have not done the achievements prior to update 5 cant speed through some easy ones to max undaunted and players who did have them completed will be on a fair and even playing field with them. No one is needed to do more, no one is needed to do less.

This thread got 50% agreement and 50% hate before. So I will answer some common questions from the old thread below to avoid a repeat..

Its still possible and fast to level!
It is still possible to level it yes. However it is far slower to level. Even if it was only 1% slower to level it would still be a unfair playing field. However in this case it is far slower and also only slower to players who did more..

Stop whining?
Ok.

Why does it need to be fast?
It does not need to be fast. It needs to be even.

I'm already close to 6, l2p.
If you didn't do achievements that much prior to update 5 you could get it in one night. So congrats on 6 in 4 days..

Got it in 40 mins! :disagree:
Grats, Try getting it in 40 mins with ONLY the new achievements. This is a good example of the disadvantage to other players who did it prior to update 5. However congrats!

You did it prior, shut up too bad.
That makes zero sense.. It literally is nothing but a disadvantage for playing game content prior to update 5.

You didn't get exp for grinding past 14 when it was done, so why do you want it for this?
Well, everyone is stuck at (what ever max level is at the time) when they hit that level. Once a new update comes with a new max level they are all at a even playing field. In this case people are not starting at a even playing field. Some people have far quicker ways to level compared to others because they did less prior to the update.

Well people who play with friends are at a advantage! The game is always unfair some how.
You are right they are, however every player can make friends and have the SAME advantage. In this case no matter what, the game will stop those who done the achievements from EVER having a even playing field.

---

If I knew that playing the game would come back to make it harder in later updates I would of not player the game.. please provide a fix. However others are already maxing it in one night doing old, quick, easy achievements so I don't know how you will anymore... apart from giving exp to the players for the achievements they already completed.. its not like we already did those achievements or anything..

Adhal

This is nothing new, every time they add a new vet level they screwed over anyone who solo quested their level up and did every quest. Then when those people went and grinded craglorn cause it was the only semi- solo thing they could do to level they cried about that not being the way their game was meant to be played. And now anyone who didn't get vr14,or close to it at least is being told "screw you, you don't matter. No endgame for you! Wait till champion system in 2-6 months. Change the way you play, k thanks, goodbye."


Maybe when they have an absolute abysmal holiday season they will learn. With dragon age: inquisition and witcher 3 coming out, I'm having a hard time figuring out why I should keep playing. Maybe instead of changing the"way" I play I should just change "what" I play.

Hortator Mopa

Adhal wrote: »

This is nothing new, every time they add a new vet level they screwed over anyone who solo quested their level up and did every quest. Then when those people went and grinded craglorn cause it was the only semi- solo thing they could do to level they cried about that not being the way their game was meant to be played. And now anyone who didn't get vr14,or close to it at least is being told "screw you, you don't matter. No endgame for you! Wait till champion system in 2-6 months. Change the way you play, k thanks, goodbye."


Maybe when they have an absolute abysmal holiday season they will learn. With dragon age: inquisition and witcher 3 coming out, I'm having a hard time figuring out why I should keep playing. Maybe instead of changing the"way" I play I should just change "what" I play.

I agree, I am a huge fan of TES and I am scared that's the only reason I am still here. I will not play a game that punishes myself or others for doing more then someone else.

Beesting

Can you please also put in your explanation why it matters? Eso will never be a level playing field. Some had an advantage because they played the beta and knew what was coming and made loads of cash by farming bosses and or selling motives before the cooldown timers.
Others have more time to play and can do more content so are automatically ahead.
And i could go on and on...
What is the benefit of leveling undaunted to 7 that makes you so upset?

Hortator Mopa

Beesting wrote: »

Can you please also put in your explanation why it matters? Eso will never be a level playing field. Some had an advantage because they played the beta and knew what was coming and made loads of cash by farming bosses and or selling motives before the cooldown timers.
Others have more time to play and can do more content so are automatically ahead.
And i could go on and on...
What is the benefit of leveling undaunted to 7 that makes you so upset?

Hey,

Check out how amazing the passives are for 6 and 7. It does not matter how big or small of a benefit it is anyways, it is the fact some can get it easy and some can.

The benefits you are explaining are either exploits or putting in more effort.. This is a pure game mechanic problem.

People who did the achievements prior to update 5 are not at a disadvantage because they are choosing to abuse a exploit or because they are "not trying" as hard. We/they are purely at a disadvantage for doing more and playing the game.

Those two things are far different...

Please go on if you have a real reason to how these two things are the same...

What you are saying is "well people who play with friends are at a advantage!"
You are right they are, however every player can make friends and have the SAME advantage. In this case no matter what the, game will stop those who done the achievements from EVER having a even playing field.

added your question to the main topic post....

Circuitous

Undaunted achievements should back credit your Undaunted XP. There's zero reason for it not to. There's no argument against it. The achievements are tracked, the points are there, just recount them.

Hortator Mopa

Circuitous wrote: »

Undaunted achievements should back credit your Undaunted XP. There's zero reason for it not to. There's no argument against it. The achievements are tracked, the points are there, just recount them.

I do agree, however the old post I made had soooo much hate for that idea.
People don't want us to get credit for things we have done BUT they also dont want to have a even playing field and for all of us to only be able to level 5-7 doing the same achievements.

To a lot of people its not a problem unless it stops them from leveling as freely.

chipputer

Adhal wrote: »

And now anyone who didn't get vr14,or close to it at least is being told "screw you, you don't matter. No endgame for you! Wait till champion system in 2-6 months. Change the way you play, k thanks, goodbye."

What?

Really?

Where?

Can you quote it?

Can you link me to it?

Because I'll bet you can't.

Ysne58

As far as undaunted goes, yes I believe they should go back and recredit that for those that completed everything. I haven't gotten past level 2 in undaunted, but this is just so unfair to those that did.

Circuitous

At least as far as regular XP goes, I'm leveling up at about the same rate I did before. I do a mix of quests, dungeons, general PvE, and crafting, though. I used to get big chunks of VP from the quests and PvE, but nothing from the other things I did. Now I get XP from all of it.

Grinding got hit hard, but for everyone else, leveling really is the same. Maybe that should be changed, idk. The lack of a quick, reliable way to level is kind of bad.

qwyksylver

I agree that the way undaunted xp works atm puts anyone who did all dungeon achievs already at a disadvantage, but I don't think the way to fix that is to simply make that disadvantage universal. Why not make completing vet level pledges reward undaunted xp as well, or even make both pledges reward undaunted xp. Regardless i think there is a better solution that just passing the disadvantage to everyone.

Ysne58

Circuitous wrote: »

At least as far as regular XP goes, I'm leveling up at about the same rate I did before. I do a mix of quests, dungeons, general PvE, and crafting, though. I used to get big chunks of VP from the quests and PvE, but nothing from the other things I did. Now I get XP from all of it.

Grinding got hit hard, but for everyone else, leveling really is the same. Maybe that should be changed, idk. The lack of a quick, reliable way to level is kind of bad.

My vet 2 is leveling slower than she was prior to 1.5. This doesn't effect 1 to 49 levels.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

To a lot of people, it's not a problem as long as it gives them an edge over others.

Grinding and exploiting is the play style that is being rewarded here. I have been playing the game the way I thought it was intended, by concentrating on quests and achievements. Silly me. I really do not feel like staying with the game right now, but I was charged for another month just a few days ago, so I guess I will be picking flowers or something, hang around for a few weeks longer and see if this stupidity continues.

Adhal

chipputer wrote: »

Adhal wrote: »

And now anyone who didn't get vr14,or close to it at least is being told "screw you, you don't matter. No endgame for you! Wait till champion system in 2-6 months. Change the way you play, k thanks, goodbye."

What?

Really?

Where?

Can you quote it?

Can you link me to it?

Because I'll bet you can't.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/138980/clarification-regarding-experience-gain-within-veteran-ranks/p1

And I quote "Due to the elimination of Veteran Points, you may need to rethink your leveling strategy a little from what you previously used to doing to gain a Veteran Rank."

Samadhi

If players were back-credited for the completed achievements, would they have logged on and instantly been maxed out on the new Undaunted passives without even having to do the new quests?

Don't see why players should not receive exp for achievements that they already earned, but also not clear on how long ZOS wanted Undaunted progression to take.

Adhal

Circuitous wrote: »

At least as far as regular XP goes, I'm leveling up at about the same rate I did before. I do a mix of quests, dungeons, general PvE, and crafting, though. I used to get big chunks of VP from the quests and PvE, but nothing from the other things I did. Now I get XP from all of it.

Grinding got hit hard, but for everyone else, leveling really is the same. Maybe that should be changed, idk. The lack of a quick, reliable way to level is kind of bad.

Grinding didn't get hit hard, it just had its location moved. You gain exp 2-3 times faster grinding normal mobs in the world than you do anywhere else. I Gained more exp doing 2 hours of that then I did doing stormhaven 100%, rivenspire 100%, and vault of madness

Adhal

Removed - double post

Wolfshead

What i don't get is the say "play as you want to play or you have freedom to play as you want" or something like that but yet the have still not put in any solo content, take undaunted what i don't get is why the did not put some solo content which less reward as well what would that hurt no one right.

Take me have VR5 char and play it every weekend for that is when i have most time to play the game but yesterday i was look both for pug and in my guilds for people that want to run dalies for undaunted but everytime a pug ask me what lvl i was i got kick and same with people in my guilds the all say the same sorry you are to low lvl.

So what do that mean basically until whole champion system are in place i can only do crafting dalies and run around do quest in all veterna zone so yeah people that is not VR14 is more or less get kick to sideline until champion system is here.

Which i personal think is misstake i know mmorpg is to do thing with other but again you should have choose to do group or solo content and not be force to other only group and solo content.

I also understand that group content gave better item and i'm fine with that but you should have choose to get better item and not only one way so if i do solo content i know i wont get best gear which is ok but i should be gave sometime and should i have same chance to lvl up with factions like the undaunted even if take long time but i still should have that choose.

Hortator Mopa

Thank you for all the replies. Seeing all of the comments are some what in agreement that its unfair I think I may of just not worded it right or went into enough detail in the old post.

I do agree that we should be back credited or at least that everyone should be at the same disadvantage as us and have to do ONLY new achievements for leveling.

Its worrying you can be punished for playing more and completing more...

Circuitous

Ysne58 wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

At least as far as regular XP goes, I'm leveling up at about the same rate I did before. I do a mix of quests, dungeons, general PvE, and crafting, though. I used to get big chunks of VP from the quests and PvE, but nothing from the other things I did. Now I get XP from all of it.

Grinding got hit hard, but for everyone else, leveling really is the same. Maybe that should be changed, idk. The lack of a quick, reliable way to level is kind of bad.

My vet 2 is leveling slower than she was prior to 1.5. This doesn't effect 1 to 49 levels.

I was referring to my Vet 4. Of course 1-49 weren't affected, why would they be?

Adhal wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

At least as far as regular XP goes, I'm leveling up at about the same rate I did before. I do a mix of quests, dungeons, general PvE, and crafting, though. I used to get big chunks of VP from the quests and PvE, but nothing from the other things I did. Now I get XP from all of it.

Grinding got hit hard, but for everyone else, leveling really is the same. Maybe that should be changed, idk. The lack of a quick, reliable way to level is kind of bad.

Grinding didn't get hit hard, it just had its location moved. You gain exp 2-3 times faster grinding normal mobs in the world than you do anywhere else. I Gained more exp doing 2 hours of that then I did doing stormhaven 100%, rivenspire 100%, and vault of madness

I'm actually glad to hear that. I like that grinding is an option.

Adhal

Just keep in mind 2 zones and a dungeon got me only 60% of a bar. Still I guess 60% in 2 hours isn't bad, its just mind numbingly boring, plus no one else was in the area so that helped as I just did an endless loop of killing

starkerealm

Ysne58 wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

At least as far as regular XP goes, I'm leveling up at about the same rate I did before. I do a mix of quests, dungeons, general PvE, and crafting, though. I used to get big chunks of VP from the quests and PvE, but nothing from the other things I did. Now I get XP from all of it.

Grinding got hit hard, but for everyone else, leveling really is the same. Maybe that should be changed, idk. The lack of a quick, reliable way to level is kind of bad.

My vet 2 is leveling slower than she was prior to 1.5. This doesn't effect 1 to 49 levels.

The XP from questing is supposed to be getting patched... I think with 1.5.3... as in the patch you already have and is breaking your game, if you're in the EU.

So that'll help a little.

Also, Vet 1, 2, and (maybe) 3 have higher XP requirements than their Vet Point era versions, 4-14 should have lower XP requirements, though I'm not 100% positive.

nerevarine1138

When did this game become about racing to level up ability trees? Or racing at all?

This isn't Mario Kart. There's no first place.

Azurya

I don´t get the point why you are so upset??
cause when you did already all the questing for the undaunted, you should have been already there at lv 10
and well when you was not, pitty but that is what life is about
come first, first served
that is the way it is, grow up, you will see then

Black_Wolf88

I completely agree with OP.
veteran dungeon achievements is the main way to level undaunted and to not get back credited for what we have done is just unfair for all the time and effort we have put into it.

we got back credited for achievements that gives dyes.
we got back credited for the new motif achievement for all the motifs we had learned pre patch.
we got back credited on other stuff too (cant be bothered to go trough all patch notes at this time to list everything), so I fail to see how they can view this any different. we cant go back and complete the achievements a 2nd time.

It is not fair for us who have spent 100s of hours in dungeons the last 6 months to not be back credited for our effort. its not reasonable at all that we have to go trough an awful pledge grind for weeks (if the undaunted level goes higher than lvl 7, which I think it does due to new passive have 2 levels ) while people who havent done achievements can do it in days, maybe hours if they have many near complete achievements ready to be completed.

this whole thing feels like ZoS coming with a shotgun in front of us and shoot us in the foot saying: Im sorry, let me help you, and then shoot our other foot as well.

starkerealm

r.groenb16_ESO wrote: »

I don´t get the point why you are so upset??
cause when you did already all the questing for the undaunted, you should have been already there at lv 10
and well when you was not, pitty but that is what life is about
come first, first served screwed over by later revisions of the system
that is the way it is, grow up, you will see then

Fixed that for ya. There was a small typo.

Anex

I am a VR7 player and I haven't really touched undaunted as no one is ever on when I play (my own fault for being in EU and choosing to play on NA servers with people from my native country) and thus I can't find groups for ANYTHING hardly ever.

That being said, I would be in agreement that it is preposterous that players are not being back-credited for things they have already done. It's not like you can do them again. That WOULD be a disadvantage.

I'm already iffy about this champion system seeing how I've been working my butt off through PvE quests to level and try to get everything I can that way (I'm also a completionist and these dungeons are hurting that part of my spirit). Sorry to hear this is an issue and I hope that it will be addressed and resolved soon.

Kromus

+1 pointing to this issue.

Hortator Mopa

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

When did this game become about racing to level up ability trees? Or racing at all?

This isn't Mario Kart. There's no first place.

Read the original post or leave. Your comment is almost the same as one of the addressed questions. Tl:dr - its about being fair overall.

r.groenb16_ESO wrote: »

I don´t get the point why you are so upset??
cause when you did already all the questing for the undaunted, you should have been already there at lv 10
and well when you was not, pitty but that is what life is about
come first, first served
that is the way it is, grow up, you will see then

You make little to no sense? All I see is a mess of words and then a childish comment, ironically about growing up.

Anex wrote: »

I am a VR7 player and I haven't really touched undaunted as no one is ever on when I play (my own fault for being in EU and choosing to play on NA servers with people from my native country) and thus I can't find groups for ANYTHING hardly ever.

That being said, I would be in agreement that it is preposterous that players are not being back-credited for things they have already done. It's not like you can do them again. That WOULD be a disadvantage.

I'm already iffy about this champion system seeing how I've been working my butt off through PvE quests to level and try to get everything I can that way (I'm also a completionist and these dungeons are hurting that part of my spirit). Sorry to hear this is an issue and I hope that it will be addressed and resolved soon.

Thank you, You are a rare kind. Someone who is not affected but still feels WHILE in a internet community!

Gillysan

Yeah, stop whining. The problem with this game in general is that leveling was too easy. The result is they have to scramble to keep people interested in the game. The other result is threads like this, where some people feel left out or short changed because of some change to the leveling experience in this game.

They made a fundamental error when releasing this game. People will *** & whine, but they will grind. They *** more when they don't have something to grind.

AlexDougherty

Gillysan wrote: »

Yeah, stop whining. The problem with this game in general is that leveling was too easy. The result is they have to scramble to keep people interested in the game. The other result is threads like this, where some people feel left out or short changed because of some change to the leveling experience in this game.

They made a fundamental error when releasing this game. People will *** & whine, but they will grind. They *** more when they don't have something to grind.

I will never whine that I don't have anything to grind.

Ever.

I might however whine that the story has finished and there is nothing new to discover, and no I'm not being pernickity, there is a real difference between the two.