New Group and Solo Instance Scaling NEEDS to be OPTIONAL!

Divinius · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

Nestor wrote: »

Ironic as one of the screens in the Death Recap suggest that you come back with a friend to help you win the battle......

LOL... I never even noticed that. GG ZOS.

Ysne58 · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

Nestor wrote: »

Ganacampo wrote: »

I wasn't even aware this also applies to solo dungeons.

Now this is bad, since it might stop some people from completing quest lines.

Just to clarify, this is applied to the Solo Dungeons that you are forced to do Solo in the Main Quest, Fighters and Mages. The other dungeons that you can do solo or with others will not scale like this.

Ironic as one of the screens in the Death Recap suggest that you come back with a friend to help you win the battle......

I think scaling should be optional if they are going to implement it. Is it going to make those battles harder if they scale? I haven't really seen an answer to that issue.

Nestor · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

Ysne58 wrote: »

I think scaling should be optional if they are going to implement it. Is it going to make those battles harder if they scale? I haven't really seen an answer to that issue.

If you go in at L25 to a L15 Quest Dungeon, the battles are much easier than if you go at L15 to a L15 Quest Dungeon when the Mobs are L15.....

Divinius · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

Ysne58 wrote: »

I think scaling should be optional if they are going to implement it. Is it going to make those battles harder if they scale? I haven't really seen an answer to that issue.

The good news is that, according to the excellent testing done by leeux, it seems that the instances do scale nicely, preventing them from getting stupidly more difficult at VR levels.

It does bring up the interesting point of people intentionally waiting until they are high-level to do the quests, specifically so they can use the new scaling to get much higher-level versions of the rewards.

Guppet · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, and feel that it should NOT be optional, so that everyone is required to complete these instances without over-leveling them.

Divinius wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Im pro casual rights, but people need to be willing to try and improve. If you cant do something 95% of people can do, then you need to re-asses how you approach it, maybe look up what to do, ask for advice. Just don't ask to have someone else do it for you, which is what allowing grouping does.

For some people,"improvement" is not an option. Take a look at all the people in the other threads complaining that a physical limitation makes it far harder for them to complete stuff. Are you saying that ZOS should just forfeit that 5% (and I suspect it's far more than you think) of their subscription fees so the rest of the players can... what... "feel more elite" or something?

Also, you are guilty of another misguided argument I've heard against making the scaling optional: Saying that "demanding that a game NOT be made harder" is equivalent to "demanding that a game be made easier." They are two different things -- asking ZOS to "nerf existing content" is completely different from asking them to "not alienate existing players by forcing existing content to be harder."

Nowhere am I asking that end-game content be nerfed. I'm already well aware of what my partner and I will not be able to do come endgame, and content that I know we won't be able to enjoy together. We can both accept that. What I'm adamantly against is making existing Main Storyline solo content harder than it currently is, which is exactly what they are doing.

Nestor wrote: »

The main reason is, in the regular game, you can find someone to help you with a tough boss or a nasty regular dungeon. In the Main Story and FG/MG, you are forced to be solo, so no way to get help with those. I feel that this will stop some people from playing the game after Coldharbor as they need to complete the main story to get to Caldwell's quests. Sure, some people can and will skip the MQ, then all they have is Craglorn to grind with.

Excellent point. Since Craglorn is all group content, and not something that I expect to be able to complete with just myself and one other person with minimal skill, I have since already accepted Craglorn as something I'm not going to be able to participate much in with my partner, and I knew that was going to happen before I ever even suggested that we play together. That leaves Cadwell's Silver and Gold as the only endgame content we will be able to enjoy together. But OH WAIT, we won't be able to do that either, because the main quest is gated with forced solo (and soon to be forced level-scaled) quests that will be very difficult for my partner to complete on her own. Thanks for that, ZOS.

Your not going to convince me that is a good idea. It's not elitist, when the vast majority of people don't struggle with it. Maybe you need to look up what elitist means. Elitist would mean only a few can do it.

Also if you dumb down a game so it's easy for people with disabilities to play, you just made it far too easy for everyone else. That may not make me popular, but it's true.

So if they dumb down so even the last 5% can do it, they could find they loose more than 5% from the other end. They have to balance for a mid point or slightly below that.

If they balance for the lowest skill players, it ends up like modern schools, that discourage competition, then all the kids moan when they can't find jobs, in the competative job market.

Divinius · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

Guppet wrote: »

Your not going to convince me that is a good idea. It's not elitist, when the vast majority of people don't struggle with it. Maybe you need to look up what elitist means. Elitist would mean only a few can do it.

Also if you dumb down a game so it's easy for people with disabilities to play, you just made it far too easy for everyone else. That may not make me popular, but it's true.

So if they dumb down so even the last 5% can do it, they could find they loose more than 5% from the other end. They have to balance for a mid point or slightly below that.

If they balance for the lowest skill players, it ends up like modern schools, that discourage competition, then all the kids moan when they can't find jobs, in the competative job market.

Once again, your entire argument is moot, since no one is asking for anything to be "dumbed down." We are simply asking that they don't make a change that will drastically increase the difficulty of the existing game. Huge difference there.

And even if we were asking for the forced solo instances to not be forced solo (which is a completely different argument, but that would help the situation greatly as well), I could still argue that that's not "dumbing down" anything either, since players are still free to do those instances solo!

Also, given the number of people in this thread alone, I wouldn't say the "vast" majority of people don't struggle. There seems to be a great many people that would view this change as a roadblock (and hence, likely eventually cancel their subs) if the scaling isn't optional.

Again, making the scaling optional does NOT "dumb-down" the game in any way, whatsoever, from its current state. Please stop saying that it would.

{edited to fix screwed up quoting}

Guppet · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, and feel that it should NOT be optional, so that everyone is required to complete these instances without over-leveling them.

Divinius wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Your not going to convince me that is a good idea. It's not elitist, when the vast majority of people don't struggle with it. Maybe you need to look up what elitist means. Elitist would mean only a few can do it.

Also if you dumb down a game so it's easy for people with disabilities to play, you just made it far too easy for everyone else. That may not make me popular, but it's true.

So if they dumb down so even the last 5% can do it, they could find they loose more than 5% from the other end. They have to balance for a mid point or slightly below that.

If they balance for the lowest skill players, it ends up like modern schools, that discourage competition, then all the kids moan when they can't find jobs, in the competative job market.

Once again, your entire argument is moot, since no one is asking for anything to be "dumbed down." We are simply asking that they don't make a change that will drastically increase the difficulty of the existing game. Huge difference there.

And even if we were asking for the forced solo instances to not be forced solo (which is a completely different argument, but that would help the situation greatly as well), I could still argue that that's not "dumbing down" anything either, since players are still free to do those instances solo!

Also, given the number of people in this thread alone, I wouldn't say the "vast" majority of people don't struggle. There seems to be a great many people that would view this change as a roadblock (and hence, likely eventually cancel their subs) if the scaling isn't optional.

Again, making the scaling optional does NOT "dumb-down" the game in any way, whatsoever, from its current state. Please stop saying that it would.

{edited to fix screwed up quoting}

Now your flat out making stuff up. The number of people saying it's good to make it optional, is not the same as them saying they find it a road block to thier progress.

By all means make a new poll if you like, asking if people think the main story and guild content is too hard, that may give you an answer to the question you claim they are giving you.

You just can't claim they are agreeing it's too hard, because they say making it optional would be nice.

Exactly which quest are you struggling with so badly? What did you do to find out how to make it easier for yourself? Where did you ask for advice? Or did you not do any of he above and you think you should not need to try and adapt?

Divinius · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

Guppet wrote: »

Now your flat out making stuff up. The number of people saying it's good to make it optional, is not the same as them saying they find it a road block to thier progress.

By all means make a new poll if you like, asking if people think the main story and guild content is too hard, that may give you an answer to the question you claim they are giving you.

You just can't claim they are agreeing it's too hard, because they say making it optional would be nice.

Exactly which quest are you struggling with so badly? What did you do to find out how to make it easier for yourself? Where did you ask for advice? Or did you not do any of he above and you think you should not need to try and adapt?

You misinterpreted my response. I'm not referring to the poll results, as you are correct, most of the people saying that it should be optional are also saying that they don't have a problem with the scaling.

But if you read through the actual posts again, you will see that there are indeed a few other people that actively admittedly that they struggled. Including me, there were 4 people out of the 37 posts thus far. And while this is a small sample size, that's already almost 11%, which is more than double your 5%.

And given that many people that do struggle probably wouldn't want to admit it (likely due to fear of ridicule from people like you), I'm willing to bet that percentage is even higher. I will still grant you that the majority do not struggle, but unlike you, the majority of those also don't care if those of us who do struggle still want to play the game.

Given that I would highly doubt that all of the 27% of the people that voted as you did would quit the game if they made this change optional, I don't think ZOS would want to risk losing over 10% of their subscribers to appease players like you.

Lastly, if you had read my other post that I linked multiple times, you'd see that it's actually not me that's struggling. And I have given advice, and I have tried to help. And she is getting better, but it's a challenge, and it's not always fun for her. For every person like her that would cancel their sub, there may be an equal number of people like me (who don't have a problem with the scaling, but who wouldn't want to play if their teammate(s) quit) that would also end up cancelling their subs.

{edited for typos}

Nox_Aeterna · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

Like most other things in this game , they should have added the option , like most other things in this game , they probably wont add any and thus annoy players :P.

Zen is predictable , not that it is a good thing when people know to only expect the worst from you lols.

DenverRalphy · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, and feel that it should NOT be optional, so that everyone is required to complete these instances without over-leveling them.

I like the new level scaling coming up. Mainly because the achievements gained will no longer trivial. But then too... I was vehemently against the nerfs made to solo instances. I miss the challenge of Doshia etc..

And to be quite frank about it... The contributing factor to solo instances being too difficult was due to individual skills. Either the player had the wrong skill loadout, or the skills were not yet levelled up.

Under the new upcoming system, sure the overall level will scale. But you'll still have the advantage that you can level up the skills needed to be more effective when you go back later, and still maintain some semblance of challenge.

Slurg · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

Making the scaling optional and going even further to add a difficulty slider, modifying the rewards and xp accordingly, really would be the best way to go. People who want the added challenge should be allowed to have that challenge. But people who have disabilities that impact their game play or who just plain aren't very good at playing should still be allowed to have fun too. If the appropriate options and corresponding rewards are offered, no one has to rage quit over this.

eventide03b14a_ESO · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, and feel that it should NOT be optional, so that everyone is required to complete these instances without over-leveling them.

There is absolutely nothing requiring anybody to complete these dungeons. Especially if you're not getting loot or experience anyway. If people need it to be ridiculously easy just to complete it then what's the point? So that you can have a participation trophy? Even if someone is "differently abled" do they really want some accomplishment handed to them? If that's the game you want to play I hear WoW is giving away level 90 to everyone who buys their expansion. Seriously folks, if you are that horrible that 3 other people cannot make up for your terribleness in a group dungeon then you probably need to find another game to play.

Ysne58 · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

I had problems with the forced solo content. I did finally get past it all after I outleveled it by a lot.

Divinius · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing requiring anybody to complete these dungeons.

Good try... but I suggest you re-read... well, anything in this thread. The more major concern is the solo instanced dungeons that make up the entirety of the Main Quest, and both the Fighter's and Mages Guilds. The level scaling affects these as well.

And before you try to stick to your failed argument, yes, there is something that requires the completion of the Main Quest: Cadwell's Silver and Gold... you know, the entire other two-thirds of the available storyline/skyshards/content/etc.?

Romo · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing requiring anybody to complete these dungeons. Especially if you're not getting loot or experience anyway. If people need it to be ridiculously easy just to complete it then what's the point? So that you can have a participation trophy? Even if someone is "differently abled" do they really want some accomplishment handed to them? If that's the game you want to play I hear WoW is giving away level 90 to everyone who buys their expansion. Seriously folks, if you are that horrible that 3 other people cannot make up for your terribleness in a group dungeon then you probably need to find another game to play.

Pleas tell me how I can get 3 others to help me in the scaled SOLO Main Story Instance. Really would like to know....

Never knew we could have 3 peeps help us in those Harbinger missions.....

Gix · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, and feel that it should NOT be optional, so that everyone is required to complete these instances without over-leveling them.

The more "options" you provide, the more complicated you make it for everyone... for no other reasons than just have it tailored to a very specific group.

I want to be able to party up with friends who are WAY bellow my level and help them out without boring myself (and my friend) to death because I'm killing everything by sneezing at them.

I want to SCALE DOWN.

The best way to accommodate the "younger, casual and differently-abled players" as you put it (way to speak for a crowd you don't represent, btw) is to bracket the levels.
Fungal Grotto (for example) : Lets say its lvl 12-to-18. It gives plenty of levels so that "those guys" can still get to overpower (to some degree) the content and scale down anyone who is above the bracket to 18.

A cool addition would be to scale UP (to 12, for Fungal Grotto, for example) for anyone who's too low level for a particular dungeon. Let them see the content that their high-leveled friends are experiencing.

So that friends can play together. You know... the whole point of MMOs.

To go back to my original point, though, more buttons/checkboxes just add to the cacophony of buttons, levels, ranks, stats, rewards that already exists in the game.

"LFG, vet grotto no-scale, need achievement, cloth&staves only, vr14" Geez, how long is this going to get?

Boom! Everybody scales. Simple. Elegant.

The simpler you make it, the easier people understand what's happening; including "those guys".

Romo · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

Nestor wrote: »

Ganacampo wrote: »

I wasn't even aware this also applies to solo dungeons.

Now this is bad, since it might stop some people from completing quest lines.

Just to clarify, this is applied to the Solo Dungeons that you are forced to do Solo in the Main Quest, Fighters and Mages. The other dungeons that you can do solo or with others will not scale like this.

Ironic as one of the screens in the Death Recap suggest that you come back with a friend to help you win the battle......

The bolded comment has been said by a lot of people.

But, I wonder if it is true?

If I go into any group dungeon alone, am I a "group" of 1 and therefore the "leader", whom the dungeon "scales to"?

Divinius · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

Gix wrote: »

The more "options" you provide, the more complicated you make it for everyone... for no other reasons than just have it tailored to a very specific group.

So... screw anyone that up until now has found a way to enjoy the game, because you don't want to have to think for an extra half-a-second on what you need to click when entering an instance. Gotcha.

And pretty much everything else in your comment was a list of very good ideas that I actually agree with, but that unfortunately have nothing at all to do with the system they are currently scheduled to implement.

Romo wrote: »

If I go into any group dungeon alone, am I a "group" of 1 and therefore the "leader", whom the dungeon "scales to"?

The only dungeons that this affects are the instanced ones, but yes, for the "Group Dungeons" like Spindleclutch and Fungal Grotto, as it stands now, they will scale to your level, even if you enter them solo. Did you like going back and trying to solo those group instances just for fun after you were over-leveled for them? Well, too bad, you can't do that anymore.

Nestor · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

Romo wrote: »

But, I wonder if it is true?

If I go into any group dungeon alone, am I a "group" of 1 and therefore the "leader", whom the dungeon "scales to"?

Yep.

So, to get around this, at least with the Group Dungeons is to find a lower leveled person and make them the leader before you go in.

The issue that will cause some grief for some people are the dungeons that you have to do solo in the Main Quest and FG/MG.

spoqster · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

My guess is that the dungeon scaling is a preparation for the Championship System. If my information is correctly they are going to remove vertical progression after Level 50 to replace it with horizontal progression. Scaling the dungeons to the veteran rank is thus a preparation for when there will be no veteran ranks.

The reason for my vote is that most solo content in the game is much too easy to be fun, so sometimes going into a group dungeon as an overleveled solo player is a great challenge that allows you to test your build and your playing skills. This is basically how I learned how to play and how I fine tuned my build to what it is now. It would be a shame if that wouldn't be possible any more.

zhevon · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

Nestor wrote: »

Ironic as one of the screens in the Death Recap suggest that you come back with a friend to help you win the battle......

It was a mistake when they nerfed the solo dungeons instead of allowing you to group. You would think that any encouragement to group would be used; especially a painless way such as inviting one person for a solo dungeon.

Elf_Boy · October 2014

Your survey is faulty.

The language is biased.

I find level scaling to be in the best interest of everyone and that the wording "forced" in biased and silly.

I could just as easily ask why you would want to force me and everyone like me who doesnt want a game that is simplistic and way too easy to boarded and unchallenged.

I could see, later as time permits, a personal difficulty setting like other games have done. Perhaps that could keep everyone happy?

Gidorick · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

The more options the better. Always... ALWAYS.

yodased · October 2014

I am confused. Didn't nick say that they would scale difficulty down eventually after the player fails a certain amount of times? I know I heard that from a zos person. I

If so I think it was dynamic difficulty or something, this entire discussion is moot. If you fail it gets easier until you can do it.

Enodoc · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

yodased wrote: »

I am confused. Didn't nick say that they would scale difficulty down eventually after the player fails a certain amount of times? I know I heard that from a zos person. I

If so I think it was dynamic difficulty or something, this entire discussion is moot. If you fail it gets easier until you can do it.

Yeah I remember that being said somewhere a while ago, but there has been no mention of it since. If that does indeed happen, then I have less of a problem with the forced scaling. But will the rewards scale down as well?

kazeweaver · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, and feel that it should NOT be optional, so that everyone is required to complete these instances without over-leveling them.

Scaling is important, the only mmo I've played ever was runescape and that was years ago. If you can't beat something you learn new builds and get better as a player to be able to beat the dungeon, even if you're casual. Practice makes perfect

zhevon · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

yodased wrote: »

I am confused. Didn't nick say that they would scale difficulty down eventually after the player fails a certain amount of times? I know I heard that from a zos person. I

If so I think it was dynamic difficulty or something, this entire discussion is moot. If you fail it gets easier until you can do it.

And I wouldn't want it to be automatic - some folks want the challenge of replaying something until they get it right.

Merlin13KAGL · October 2014

smacx250 wrote: »

FishBreath wrote: »

Doesn't the scaling only happen once when you visit an area? If you aren't able to complete it you can come back later over-leveled.

The way the patch notes description reads, the level is set upon "entering the instance", and a new "instance" is created each time you revisit an instanced area. If you leveled while in the instance, the scaling wouldn't be changed.

Solo scaling is determined by your level upon entering the instance, and remains there for the session.

All scaling happens on entry based on Group leader/Individual. Scaling remains throughout the instance. Level up during, and it doesn't change.

Divinius wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

If scaling is optional, a lot of players (dare I say a majority) wont be available for dungeon groups on level. They will solo at level cap instead, to get the achievement, skill points and story the easy way.

That's the argument for not allowing optional scaling I guess. Will be harder to find groups, for those that actually wants to do more challenging stuff on level.

I think I understand your concern, but I don't feel like that would make the situation any worse than it currently is (in the live game now) where the scaling doesn't exist yet. The same number of people would wait to over-level the instance if the scaling was optional as they do currently. And if they forced the scaling, I still don't see how that would help, since players of varying levels still couldn't group together without either having higher-level players face-roll the content (if the group leader was lower-level), or lower level players being useless (if the group leader was higher-level).

There is still an advantage (other than maintaining the challenge) to doing the quests at their intended level (or using the scaling once implemented): exp and loot.

And even all that aside, that still wouldn't explain the necessity to force the scaling on the solo instances.

While I totally get why the level scaling would be a major advantage to have as an option, I still don't understand any reason why it would need to be forced.

@eliisra , I still think there will be plenty of people that will opt for scaling to be turned on and will still be available at or near level. Not everyone wants to faceroll everything. Not everyone wants to get their butts handed to them, either. This will allow for both.

Part of the reasoning behind the good intentions involve:

Trying to promote completion at intended level.
Grouping within a relatively similar level range.
Replayability.
(Almost) Guaranteed XP's/loot. (Leveled to the lower of you or the enemy you fought.)

Options allow a wider base of people to be happy. Happy players are paying players.

Lack of options can lead to frustration. Frustration leads to people avoiding content or exiting the game entirely.

driosketch wrote: »

I took a level 40 character through the first fighter's guild quest. With all the skill points to spend, scaled Dosha fell as quickly as she did when you are 10 levels over her. Limiting myself to just critical charge and two handed strike to drag the fight out, but still with the passives, I notice Dosha's fight is far far easier than back in the Beta days. The bonus was that the quest reward was scaled to my level, which actually makes me want to hold off on the solo quests.

That being said, even though I know they've made a number of the battles easier, I would still be in favor of having some sort of difficulty slider.

@driosketch‌ , they nerfed the crap out of Doshia shortly after launch. Things like that will be easier in the sense that you will have more skillpoints (and likely better gear) available.

Nestor wrote: »

Yes, but how do you get to the person who transports you there? I have only seen him in the VR Instances. I think. Maybe he is outside of Elden Root for my AD VR Characters, none of them spend much time in the leveling zone instance of Grahtwood anymore. I don't think I have seen him with my DC character in the leveling zones, but I am not looking for him there.

@Nestor , worried-cart-guy is in the capital city of each Alliance once you hit VR1.

Slurg wrote: »

Making the scaling optional and going even further to add a difficulty slider, modifying the rewards and xp accordingly, really would be the best way to go. People who want the added challenge should be allowed to have that challenge. But people who have disabilities that impact their game play or who just plain aren't very good at playing should still be allowed to have fun too. If the appropriate options and corresponding rewards are offered, no one has to rage quit over this.

@Slurg, difficulty slider is a step closer to the right direction. Scaling to the overall average of the group, vice the group leader is another possibility.

Gix wrote: »

The more "options" you provide, the more complicated you make it for everyone... for no other reasons than just have it tailored to a very specific group.

I want to be able to party up with friends who are WAY bellow my level and help them out without boring myself (and my friend) to death because I'm killing everything by sneezing at them.

I want to SCALE DOWN.

The best way to accommodate the "younger, casual and differently-abled players" as you put it (way to speak for a crowd you don't represent, btw) is to bracket the levels.
Fungal Grotto (for example) : Lets say its lvl 12-to-18. It gives plenty of levels so that "those guys" can still get to overpower (to some degree) the content and scale down anyone who is above the bracket to 18.

A cool addition would be to scale UP (to 12, for Fungal Grotto, for example) for anyone who's too low level for a particular dungeon. Let them see the content that their high-leveled friends are experiencing.

So that friends can play together. You know... the whole point of MMOs.

To go back to my original point, though, more buttons/checkboxes just add to the cacophony of buttons, levels, ranks, stats, rewards that already exists in the game.

"LFG, vet grotto no-scale, need achievement, cloth&staves only, vr14" Geez, how long is this going to get?

Boom! Everybody scales. Simple. Elegant.

The simpler you make it, the easier people understand what's happening; including "those guys".

@Gix , there are a few issues with this. First, there are limits to scaling down. The other aspect that goes along with this and what you are asking for involved contribution.

They're changing it so if you are more than 5 Vet levels below the next guy, you have to contribute so much damage or you get no XP's/Loot. So you're not automatically going to be able to help your scaled down friends as much as you think.

What you are referring to is another version of Battle Leveling. That's the other extreme, and would cause little reason to approach anything at level.

Romo wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Ganacampo wrote: »

I wasn't even aware this also applies to solo dungeons.

Now this is bad, since it might stop some people from completing quest lines.

Just to clarify, this is applied to the Solo Dungeons that you are forced to do Solo in the Main Quest, Fighters and Mages. The other dungeons that you can do solo or with others will not scale like this.

Ironic as one of the screens in the Death Recap suggest that you come back with a friend to help you win the battle......

The bolded comment has been said by a lot of people.

But, I wonder if it is true?

If I go into any group dungeon alone, am I a "group" of 1 and therefore the "leader", whom the dungeon "scales to"?

It is. If instance doesn't explicity say [SOLO] or [GROUP], it doesn't scale (for now).

And yes, in that instance, you are a Group of One, and likely getting ready to get your butt kicked.

Further, I have concerns on the implementation of this. Many of the Group Dungeons bug out now and can become unplayable at or above level. This will be further emphasized with scaling.

For example, went into Vet Grotto yesterday with a VR14, VR12, VR9, and VR7. The mechanics of the chain boss were messing up and it simply wasn't happening.

Another was Vet Elden. Plenty of power in the group, once again. Twilight boss was summoning about 5x the normal amount of mind controllers...

Again, almost impossible above level. Scaling + bugged dungeons absolutely not gonna happen.

You're not going to be able to survive your skillbar locking up, rubber banding, or your skills not firing when something is scaled up even further.

This is going to be a painful transistion, I fear, not because I am not interested in earning anything - I just don't have a lot of faith that they will implement it properly and make sure the normal stuff works right first.

EDIT: Added an end parenthesis and made corrected my more gooder English:
"Again, not almost impossible"
Geesh.

tinythinker · October 2014

How to Enjoy the Game?

Regardless of how scaling is implemented or eventually adjusted (I'm not arguing for or against it here), threads like this raise questions about how people think the game should be played. In this case, whether there is a right or acceptable way to enjoy the game.

I don't see why it's one player's business why another player might want to over-level. If someone just wants a completion and a skill point, why does that matter? If someone has less skill than another player, who cares? If someone has reasons for wanting to solo grouped instances (difficulty finding groups at level because of issues like being on briefly at odd times, consistently bad luck with unreliable pick-up groups, not wanting to wait to do questing to stay "at level" for the instance, etc), what difference does it make?

If someone wants to over-level the main quest, the initial alliance quest, and so on, for whatever reason at all, why is that anyone else's concern? If they are over-leveling, they know this is the case and that they aren't getting the same challenge as those playing at or under level for the content. They know where they "expected" level of challenge is for that content.

Over-leveling has been an option since the game launched, and since launch there are those who have argued against nerfing content precisely because it was possible to just get more experience, attribute points, skill points, and higher level gear and try again.

As for scaling itself, the issue here isn't about making things easier than they already are, so why should one person's standard for what makes an activity fun or worthwhile have to be imposed on another? What challenge is being taken away from players who want things to be harder if scaling is scrapped or made optional?

Some players over-level to still have fun while they learn the game. I did about 85-90% of content "at level" for beta and early release and so on with my first character, and it was a struggle. But if I just didn't have an answer for the situation, I came back later at 3, 5, 8, 10 or however many levels over the target zone. And that was with a DK who is now at VR14. After taking a Templar to VR12, I have had a more casual gaming schedule and recently started work on a Nightblade. I haven't been spending skill points or attributed points for a while now to make things "more challenging".

That character is currently at level 46 has 47 unspent skill points and 28 unspent attribute points, and it reminds me of how things felt with my first character. Other than ultimates, the only class skills I have unlocked are Killer's Blade, Lotus Fan, Shadowy Disguise, Concealed Weapon, Refreshing Path, Swallow Soul, Crippling Grasp, and an unmorphed Siphoning Strikes. I haven't unlocked or enhanced any passives in a good while, and weapon skill lines are even more sparse.

I am not suggesting this is impressive, just that I couldn't have done something like this when I started the game. So, yes, people can over-level and still get better at the game. But even if they don't, as long as they are enjoying themselves and aren't limiting opportunities for others to enjoy a more challenging approach to the game, why is that a problem?

driosketch · October 2014

I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.

they nerfed the crap out of Doshia shortly after launch. Things like that will be easier in the sense that you will have more skillpoints (and likely better gear) available

@Merlin13KAGL‌ at least twice after launch and once more during beta from what I remember. I think there was one more that affected the health orbs recently. They're like giant slow moving opaque balls now.