I don't like solo instances forced to scale up (from Update 5 PTS notes)

eserras7b16_ESO · October 2014

Thank you ESO developers team.

Listen, this is a VICTORY for the ELDER SCROLLS GAMES this new feature is gamebreaking. Finally the game is near ESGames and a bit more far to WoW, SWTOR, LOTRO, etc.

Guys, while it is true it might seem disturbing at start, think about it, I know we're used to have "Low lvl" zones where you can faceroll the content, but that's something wich can be diferent, and it's legit it is diferent in an Elder Scrolls game. This means you'll find challenge in any part of the world as it should be. Going back to reclaim skyshards will be a hardwork, adds to grouping. Let them do it, they're trying to make this game something amazing.

Vyle_Byte · October 2014

All we are really asking for is the option, i don't mind the scaling, i know some people want it to be more challenging i get that and its all good for them. But there's no reason at all that it cant be optional. "Something for everyone". They market this game as play how you want, which for the most part is true besides some imbalancing issues. Just give us the option. Then everyone is happy and can play how they want.

TitusF · October 2014

I'm all for scaling as long as it's an option like how we're able to turn On/Off stat scaling for Cyrodiil.

Divinius · October 2014

I'm just going to say it... If this turns out to be a forced option, then they are going to be losing two subscriptions to the game.

I play this game with my girlfriend. She is... not really a gamer. She tries, but calling her a "casual" would be an understatement. I'm a long-time gamer and MMO vet, so I'm used to having to learn mechanics and what-not. She... isn't.

We play this game together, and I basically carry her through much of the content. Frustrations greatly arise when it comes to the instanced dungeons, both group and solo.

The forced solo dungeons as they are have irked me since Day One, because I have to watch her struggle through them, and get very frustrated (the fact that I seem to have no issue with them just frustrates her more). I have offered to help her by doing them for her, but she hates having to resort to that.

We've gotten as far as we have by just waiting until we are several levels over the dungeon for the main quest and fighters/mages guild questlines, at which point she can complete them fairly easily. This change will eliminate that as an option, if the difficulty scaling is forced.

Instanced group dungeons are another issue. I don't know anyone else that plays, and can't very well expect two other people in a PUG to want to carry a relatively useless 4th person through every dungeon. So we've been waiting until we were VERY over-leveled to complete those, when we can do them as just the two of us. This change will kill our ability to do that as well, if it's forced.

Don't get me wrong, I actually kinda like the level scaling idea, if it's optional, since that would allow me to do the solo dungeons at the same time as her (when we are several levels beyond it), while still being able to enjoy the dungeon as intended and not having it be a face-roll. But forcing this on us, without the option of being able to do them while over-leveled just for the completion, is going to ruin the game for her, and by extension, me as well.

If this turns out to be forced, then, to me, that would just be one more example of the ZOS devs trying to kill off their casual gamer playerbase, to appeal to the MMO elite crowd (who can never be completely pleased with anything).

Please make this change optional.

Vendersleigh · October 2014

I have just cancelled my subscription because I am disabled and can only complete the guild and main questlines by being 5-10 levels over the nominal level.

If the forced solo dungeons are made for groups or if the altering them to one's level is made optional then I shall re-subscribe.

I understand that many find these solo-instances easy but for some of us they are not.

R1ckyDaMan · October 2014

join the pts and /feedback

starkerealm · October 2014

Vendersleigh wrote: »

I have just cancelled my subscription because I am disabled and can only complete the guild and main questlines by being 5-10 levels over the nominal level.

If the forced solo dungeons are made for groups or if the altering them to one's level is made optional then I shall re-subscribe.

I understand that many find these solo-instances easy but for some of us they are not.

Which is a large part of why there needs to be... no, needs to be the ability to bring party members into the quest and guild instances.

I get the people who say, "but, no, that would undermine my achievement," but at the same time it literally gates players off. If my RSI was more severe and I couldn't clear those, you'd bet I'd be spitting blood... and leaving.

smacx250 · October 2014

I know the OP is about solo dungeons, but this was brought up in another post and is somewhat related, so...

I play at spur of the moment times and lengths, around "real life" commitments. This makes it hard to schedule/commit time to group play. I haven't generally enjoyed PUGs I've entered into for dungeons, as it is just a big rush to get through. I often like to explore and look through everything, but that doesn't work as I'm just slowing everyone else down. So, I have enjoyed going back to the non-vet group dungeons as a vet to solo them - even when I previously "cleared" them with one of these rush-PUGs. It will be a shame if the option to do this is removed, as it seems it may be if the group dungeons always scale to the leader level.

AlexDougherty · October 2014

Holycannoli wrote: »

Solo Scaling

Solo instances will now scale to your level, with some caveats:
Solo instances do not scale below the level they are introduced. For example, Thizzrini Arena begins scaling from level 42.
Solo instances do not scale past Veteran Rank 12 at this time.
Solo scaling is determined by your level upon entering the instance, and remains there for the session.

This has been a bother in TES since Morrowind. I am not a fan of areas scaling to my level. I do not want instances in this game to scale up to my level. If I enter a solo dungeon 10 levels higher than the dungeon, then I expect to have an easier time getting through it and getting the shard/boss/book/whatever. I do not want them scaling to my level without my permission. I am much more a fan of areas being appropriate for certain levels. I mean would it make sense for the Freeport newbie yard in classic Everquest to scale up to my level 50 character?

Am I the only one who feels like this? I would not mind optional solo scaling, but highly mind forced solo scaling.

Agreed, it defeats the whole point of levelling. If I find a particular boss too difficult then I want to be able to add a few levels to give me a chance. But if the boss just scales with me, then what exactly are we supposed to do, especially for guild and main quests, where we are on our own.

I have always said that scaling is a terrible idea, and have not seen anything to change my mind.

ThisOnePosts · October 2014

Having the option to with better reward/xp potential is how it should be. Yes I would enable that option since I am maxed out in level on a few characters and would love to have fights all over Tamriel closer to what's intended for VR14. However, I definitely believe it should be an option as not everyone plays the same as I do nor should they be forced to.

smacx250 · October 2014

smacx250 wrote: »

I know the OP is about solo dungeons, but this was brought up in another post and is somewhat related, so...

I play at spur of the moment times and lengths, around "real life" commitments. This makes it hard to schedule/commit time to group play. I haven't generally enjoyed PUGs I've entered into for dungeons, as it is just a big rush to get through. I often like to explore and look through everything, but that doesn't work as I'm just slowing everyone else down. So, I have enjoyed going back to the non-vet group dungeons as a vet to solo them - even when I previously "cleared" them with one of these rush-PUGs. It will be a shame if the option to do this is removed, as it seems it may be if the group dungeons always scale to the leader level.

One other thing - I like to play whatever build I want (within reason), and not have to min/max everything. I don't care if my character is the "best" - I just play what I enjoy. Now I know this doesn't work for PvP, but for PvE, the ability to over-level when needed makes it possible to enjoy playing even "non optimal" builds. I hope this doesn't become even more discouraged by the game mechanics than it already is. I know to some this is just crazy talk, but I don't think I'm entirely alone in this respect.

Unknown_poster · October 2014

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Thank you ESO developers team.

Listen, this is a VICTORY for the ELDER SCROLLS GAMES this new feature is gamebreaking. Finally the game is near ESGames and a bit more far to WoW, SWTOR, LOTRO, etc.

Guys, while it is true it might seem disturbing at start, think about it, I know we're used to have "Low lvl" zones where you can faceroll the content, but that's something wich can be diferent, and it's legit it is diferent in an Elder Scrolls game. This means you'll find challenge in any part of the world as it should be. Going back to reclaim skyshards will be a hardwork, adds to grouping. Let them do it, they're trying to make this game something amazing.

Once again, zones haven't changed. Only solo story instances and group dungeons. Which skyshards are in group dungeons? Which skyshards are in solo instances?

Shaun98ca2 · October 2014

Personally I though the Dungeon/Instance scaling is/was a TERRIBLE idea.

It actually make MORE sense and is simply better game wise to have your character leveled down for lower level content.

WHY you ask? Well lets take dungeons for instance. I enjoy healing dungeons and its how I want to progress in the game. So now with leveling down my character lower level characters now have people to run the dungeons with.

Delvs, Dark anchors, quests....all these doing mentored down allows for a challenge when enjoying the content rather than facerolling it PLUS your helping the lower leveled population.

ZOS has done nothing but make hugely bad decisions with this amazing game and sadly im just done with it.

Grunim · October 2014

smacx250 wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

I know the OP is about solo dungeons, but this was brought up in another post and is somewhat related, so...

I play at spur of the moment times and lengths, around "real life" commitments. This makes it hard to schedule/commit time to group play. I haven't generally enjoyed PUGs I've entered into for dungeons, as it is just a big rush to get through. I often like to explore and look through everything, but that doesn't work as I'm just slowing everyone else down. So, I have enjoyed going back to the non-vet group dungeons as a vet to solo them - even when I previously "cleared" them with one of these rush-PUGs. It will be a shame if the option to do this is removed, as it seems it may be if the group dungeons always scale to the leader level.

One other thing - I like to play whatever build I want (within reason), and not have to min/max everything. I don't care if my character is the "best" - I just play what I enjoy. Now I know this doesn't work for PvP, but for PvE, the ability to over-level when needed makes it possible to enjoy playing even "non optimal" builds. I hope this doesn't become even more discouraged by the game mechanics than it already is. I know to some this is just crazy talk, but I don't think I'm entirely alone in this respect.

You are NOT alone. Today I had my VR14 NB who still struggles at times with certain PvE parts of the game go in and solo 2 dungeons that I never previously completed with this character. Trying to solo the non veteran versions of these dungeons was a very good challenge for me and yes I did die several times in the attempt even as a max level character.

I had a wonderful time completing them at my own pace where I could listen to all the NPC dialogue and go as slowly as I wished without annoying other players.

Please ZOS, don't take this option away. Isn't there a way you could implement things so a high level character could still complete these instances by themselves?

Valen_Byte · October 2014

DamitJanit wrote: »

All we are really asking for is the option, i don't mind the scaling, i know some people want it to be more challenging i get that and its all good for them. But there's no reason at all that it cant be optional. "Something for everyone". They market this game as play how you want, which for the most part is true besides some imbalancing issues. Just give us the option. Then everyone is happy and can play how they want.

This ^^

I would like to see the option as well. I'll explain.

Last night Vyle and I joined the PTS to test out the Undaunted quests. First, we created new characters using the Undaunted template. This made our characters V12 with all skills maxed. We dawned the Legendary gear and weapons. Feeling quite powerful we set off for Ghrautwood to find the beginning of the quest line. Fast forward to inside the dungeon. All enemies were V12. We picked a fight with the first group, and died. We tried again...did no noticeable damage to the enemies, and died. Then we died again. Three times we did no damage, did not kill even one of the enemies.

Ok, I know that this is a group dungeon. We were trying to run it with just two people. We have successfully done this several times in the past. So we figured with V12 vs V12, this would be challenging but doable. No, we were wrong.

So we thought, lets hop on our lvl 47 characters and try it. Our lvl 47 builds are both wearing gear that is lvl 32. We thought that we would run into the same problems we had with the V12 characters. We were wrong again.

We entered the dungeon and started the first encounter. It was a challenge. A very fun one. We cleared that group and moved on to the next. Rinse and repeat all the way to the first boss. I run a NB, Vyle runs a Sorc. with some heals. I died a couple of times, she did not die once.

What this tells me is that there is still an imbalance at the vet ranks. It also makes me not want to be a vet at all. I like a challenge when I want a challenge. I know where to go to find one. I also like to run through a dungeon one shotting everything like I'm one of the eight. I will no longer be able to do this with forced scaling. We are aware that if we run through out leveling everything that we will get no loot or xp. This is something that is acceptable. We just want to have fun. I don't think we are the only ones who feel this way. When a game becomes a chore or worse yet, like work. It looses its enjoyment. I believe an 'option' to make them scale is a great solution and would allow people to "play how they want".

Cynnalia · October 2014

smacx250 wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

I know the OP is about solo dungeons, but this was brought up in another post and is somewhat related, so...

I play at spur of the moment times and lengths, around "real life" commitments. This makes it hard to schedule/commit time to group play. I haven't generally enjoyed PUGs I've entered into for dungeons, as it is just a big rush to get through. I often like to explore and look through everything, but that doesn't work as I'm just slowing everyone else down. So, I have enjoyed going back to the non-vet group dungeons as a vet to solo them - even when I previously "cleared" them with one of these rush-PUGs. It will be a shame if the option to do this is removed, as it seems it may be if the group dungeons always scale to the leader level.

One other thing - I like to play whatever build I want (within reason), and not have to min/max everything. I don't care if my character is the "best" - I just play what I enjoy. Now I know this doesn't work for PvP, but for PvE, the ability to over-level when needed makes it possible to enjoy playing even "non optimal" builds. I hope this doesn't become even more discouraged by the game mechanics than it already is. I know to some this is just crazy talk, but I don't think I'm entirely alone in this respect.

Definitely not alone. My first character was a stamina-build DW/Bow NB and she had a heck of a time beating Mannimarco. She had to level up to 46 before she could advance past this level 40 main quest. No, she was not an ideal build, but I enjoyed playing her that way. Is Zeni now telling me I have to have ideal builds or I can't complete the Main/FG/MG quests? Please make the scaling optional and not forced so ALL of my characters can reach VR levels and not just my magicka-build DK and sorc.

Khami · October 2014

I'm on the PTS, since I'm on the NA server, my characters got copied over to PTS. I have my VR14 NB in Toothmaul Gully. The bosses are level 7.

Valen_Byte · October 2014

Khami wrote: »

I'm on the PTS, since I'm on the NA server, my characters got copied over to PTS. I have my VR14 NB in Toothmaul Gully. The bosses are level 7.

Public Dungeons are not effected by the scaling. Only instances, such as Group dungeons and solo instances.

Maotti · October 2014

I wish they would introduce zonescaling also, optional mind you!

Because i as an Aldmeri player have no reason at all to travel to Dominion areas. No loot, no soon to be gone VP.

Only thing i can loot is chests, and only the soul gems is scaled to your level.

firstdecan · October 2014

What 'solo instances' are affected by this scaling? I was on the PTS and couldn't find one.

Dagoth_Rac · October 2014

firstdecan wrote: »

What 'solo instances' are affected by this scaling? I was on the PTS and couldn't find one.

You have likely done them all and I don't think any are repeatable. Main Story quests, Fighters/Mages Guild Quests, some (but not all) of the zone storyline quests that get checked off as you advance Cadwell's Silver/Gold. I can't think of any other forced solo content.

Valen_Byte · October 2014

firstdecan wrote: »

What 'solo instances' are affected by this scaling? I was on the PTS and couldn't find one.

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

What 'solo instances' are affected by this scaling? I was on the PTS and couldn't find one.

You have likely done them all and I don't think any are repeatable. Main Story quests, Fighters/Mages Guild Quests, some (but not all) of the zone storyline quests that get checked off as you advance Cadwell's Silver/Gold. I can't think of any other forced solo content.

And group dungeons

GnatB · October 2014

So, let's see if I've got this straight. Let's say I'm not very good, and/or I'm playing an extremely "unoptimized" build simply because I find it fun/unique.

It try a main story/fights/mages guild dungeon, get my butt kicked, so figure I'll put it off and come back later when I'm higher level.

But, oh wait. It scales up to me now. So coming back at a higher level does jack squat.

No offense ZOS, but that sounds like possibly the stupidest idea *EVER*.

GnatB · October 2014

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

This means you'll find challenge in any part of the world as it should be. Going back to reclaim skyshards will be a hardwork, adds to grouping. Let them do it, they're trying to make this game something amazing.

AFAIK, not a single skyshard is in an instanced anything, so they'll still be just as easy to get.

Unknown_poster · October 2014

Yep, you got it straight. Amazed at the number of people who just don't get it. You're playing a combat based MMO that has solo instance gates to advancement. Being hard-headed about your "unoptimized' build is going to get you nowhere fast. I guess you could try "Dear ZOS, why o why are solo instances so hard for my character? I spam inner light and it never damages them? Please add a big red button that kills everything in said instances for me when I feel like it, or make all solo content conversation based only. But be sure to give me only one convo option, I find two or more choices immersion-breaking."

SantieClaws · October 2014

I think they have probably introduced the scaling because when the DB and Thieves Guild questlines come in they want players of all levels to be able to play them. They did also mention a while back they were also going to be introducing a mechanism on boss fights where if you are pummled again and again it will adjust the fight to make it a bit easier to complete. If those two things come together then I am ok with this. Without the boss scaling business this would be a pain in the pauldrons for me as a squishy, bow using NB.

Pendrillion · October 2014

Holycannoli wrote: »

kimboh wrote: »

If it means only main quest and mage guild / fighter guild quests and whatnot I'm still not happy. Those are quests I also purposely overlevel for, ever since the original Gustripper made mincemeat of my two-handed sorcerer back in beta.

Aah the reminiscences

AngryNord · October 2014

I was bored on Saturday and did the whole Mages Guild questline with my Templar... Was a walk in the park, naturally, at vet 7, but wouldn't want to have it all suddenly scaled to that vet level... Although maybe vet 1.

adriant1978 · October 2014

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

They did also mention a while back they were also going to be introducing a mechanism on boss fights where if you are pummled again and again it will adjust the fight to make it a bit easier to complete.

I don't see this in the 1.5 patch notes though, unless I missed it.

Syntse · October 2014

Divinius wrote: »

I'm just going to say it... If this turns out to be a forced option, then they are going to be losing two subscriptions to the game.

I play this game with my girlfriend. She is... not really a gamer. She tries, but calling her a "casual" would be an understatement. I'm a long-time gamer and MMO vet, so I'm used to having to learn mechanics and what-not. She... isn't.

We play this game together, and I basically carry her through much of the content. Frustrations greatly arise when it comes to the instanced dungeons, both group and solo.

Pretty much same here with my wife. I have no issues with most of the content but she does. I've played fights for her, gave advices on which skills to select for fight and walked her through fights live. Sometimes we have left some quests to wait for few levels and then came back since we do go through the content in sync.

If scaling is going to be forced it will effect quite a lot of casuals so that they will most likely stop playing and paying when they get stuck and cannot proceed with content. And still this will not please the crowd looking for challenge because they already did all this 2 levels below. Group dungeon scaling to leader is very welcome change.