I don't understand people who want Solo Content

Kos · October 2014

Massive Multiplayer Online is a person who is massive and plays many games of which at least one is online. You are misinterpreting the meaning.

LariahHunding · October 2014

Vizier wrote: »

Folks shouldn't have a problem with ESO solo content. The franchise specialized in solo content for two decades and so it's not difficult to understand there would be a massive amount of solo content for ESO, their first MMO.

The problem I have is this notion that PVE Solo players must have access to any and all group content as a solo player. That they are somehow disenfranchised over the need to group to complete or even participate in some of the game content is just as ridiculous as the assertion that by virtue of ESO being an MMO there should be little to no soloable content.

Both sides need to back the hell up off of each other. There is room for both in ESO.

Solo players...Leave my group content alone. You don't have any special right to be able to solo everything, whether you pay a sub or not. The sub is to access the game as is. BOO EFFING HOO that you can't get all achievements solo. That is your choice.

PvP players...this is TES with a long and rich history of solo play. Get used to it. The Elder Scrolls community has long waited for a TES MMO. If PVE/Solo/limited group players like to be in a world with other people even if they don't want to spend 24/7 with each other, that's OK.

I think that you are missing the mark. What I have seen is additional solo content, not changing the existing. However, hiding crafting stuff behind a groupwall is BS.

R1ckyDaMan · October 2014

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

As several have pointed out, World of Warcraft was not a massively multiplayer game. As it was it had to become even less so as the years went on. And it because it wasn't I never really played it for long.

I too had rather fixed views on the subject and I'd been playing MMOs since '84. Frankly I couldn't see what the fuss was over that game.

However, it proved that there was far larger market for the scripted, directed online game experience than the original concept of a narrative told by the audience that revealed something distinctive and individual about each person who played it.

This game takes it a step further. In its story driven core form NOT A SINGLE QUEST IS DIRECTED TO A GROUP. It's directed to a single hero character. You can do it as a group but the game addresses you as one person: the silent protagonist that made Skyrim a 50 million copy best selling game.

As such I enjoy it. I've loved online games longer than many of you have been alive, you children of WoW, how you try my patience. But you're here. You bought it, you play it and, damn you all, you asked for it.

You did. Nobody, but nobody nowadays puts this kind of money into an entertainment project of this magnitude without looking at the market and using hard data.

If you want a classic MMO in every way in all its glory, play Eve.

How is WoW not an MMO? Do you understand the definition of MMO?

From Wikipedia:

"A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.[1] MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.

MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game

Yep that says players must be in a group alright

Maverick827 · October 2014

Most people enjoy being around other people, but do not necessarily enjoy interacting with them.

I, for one, enjoy going shopping at the mall alone. I also enjoy going with a group of friends. In neither scenario would I particularly enjoy being the only person (or the only group) in the entire mall, however. That would be kind of creepy and depressing.

Vyle_Byte · October 2014

What i don't understand is why some people get their panties in a bunch over what other people like/enjoy.

Vizier wrote: »

Both sides need to back the hell up off of each other. There is room for both in ESO.

^^ This. SO much this.

There is no need at all for anyone to be so hostile about others game play. Ok, so you don't understand it. Doesn't call for the absurd amount of hostility about it, or calling anyone ignorant. Does it affect your game play? No. It does not. As the quoter above said, there's room for everyone.

The sad thing is that no matter what anyone says to people with these views, they aren't going to change their minds. They will continue to see it the way they want to and all of this arguing over it does nothing but make the community bitter against each other. Just play the game and have fun, they way you want and don't worry about the other guy.

Just my 2 cents.

Varicite · October 2014

Nestor wrote: »

So, the end game part is forced grouped? Does not mean the rest is.

And that is different from ESO.... how?

Did you entirely forget your reason for even bringing up WoW in the first place?

Nestor wrote: »

And when was the last time I played WOW? Never. I watched a large raid on Youtube once, yawn. If that is the point of the game, then no wonder subs are bailing. It's not something I have any interest in. I know several people in the RW who play WOW and they all tell me the entire game leading up to the end game can be and is played solo.

How about you just stick to things you actually have a clue about when discussing things in the future.

"I heard this thing from a guy one time" does not a compelling argument make. Write about what you know; don't just make things up because you watched a youtube video one time.

ZOS_CarolusS · October 2014

Hello everyone,
We have removed some content in this thread as it violated our Community Rules.
Please focus on the subject of this thread and refrain from attacking each other and from baiting other users into attacking you. If you feel that a post is violating our Rules, do not respond, but report it to us, so we can deal with it.
Thank you for your understanding.

kewl · October 2014

This game attracted allot of MMO first timers because of TES (generally, single player types.) Grouping had to be done well for these people to be integrated, and ZOS bungled it badly:

Group questing is difficult because of phasing restrictions.
Systems behind the grouping tool are just awful.
Dungeons can only be done once, for a very small window of time.

I solo more in ESO than I have in any other MMO. It's just how the game was designed.

Audigy · October 2014

Nestor wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Its not.

WOW is a full on group MMO, when was the last time you played? The days of Vanilla and TBC are sadly over where solo and group did coexist.

Today WOW is all about raiding or dying - the reason why Blizz lost half of their subs since WOTLK when all that mess started to crawl in.

So, the end game part is forced grouped? Does not mean the rest is. And, yes, I know, with WOW, the "game" does not start until the end game and max level. And that mentality/paradigm has spilled over into other games where people are only concerned with "What's the max level and how quickly can I get there" style of play. So, they burn through content to get to an aspect of the game that could be served with a Template. Then complain that there is no content...

And when was the last time I played WOW? Never. I watched a large raid on Youtube once, yawn. If that is the point of the game, then no wonder subs are bailing. It's not something I have any interest in. I know several people in the RW who play WOW and they all tell me the entire game leading up to the end game can be and is played solo.

Its a bit off topic but I try to explain.

The first two years WOW was a mix. You had solo class quests, elite zones or world bosses + raids and world pvp + BGs.

As a player you could do forced group content ( raids and dungeons) or you could play non forced group content (elite zones, world bosses & pvp, class quests etc.)

This is in my view a great way of balancing an MMO, that said WOW was far from perfect as they removed elite zones, open pvp and other stuff with the following years and everything group based was raiding.

In my opinion people need to see the difference between group and forced group content.

At ESO nobody was forced to group in the old VR zones but you are forced to group in trials or VR dungeons.

The latter (being forced) is something I am against in MMOs but the first (voluntary with passer byes) is what I want to see in an MMO and why I and I suppose most people play these type of games.

Crowzer · October 2014

2014 and people (fortunatly a few) are still suprised about persons want solo content in MMO. Op ? How was you cave ?

Vizier · October 2014

LariahHunding wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Folks shouldn't have a problem with ESO solo content. The franchise specialized in solo content for two decades and so it's not difficult to understand there would be a massive amount of solo content for ESO, their first MMO.

The problem I have is this notion that PVE Solo players must have access to any and all group content as a solo player. That they are somehow disenfranchised over the need to group to complete or even participate in some of the game content is just as ridiculous as the assertion that by virtue of ESO being an MMO there should be little to no soloable content.

Both sides need to back the hell up off of each other. There is room for both in ESO.

Solo players...Leave my group content alone. You don't have any special right to be able to solo everything, whether you pay a sub or not. The sub is to access the game as is. BOO EFFING HOO that you can't get all achievements solo. That is your choice.

PvP players...this is TES with a long and rich history of solo play. Get used to it. The Elder Scrolls community has long waited for a TES MMO. If PVE/Solo/limited group players like to be in a world with other people even if they don't want to spend 24/7 with each other, that's OK.

I think that you are missing the mark. What I have seen is additional solo content, not changing the existing. However, hiding crafting stuff behind a groupwall is BS.

Then you haven't been paying attention. These forums are full of PVE/Solo fans petitioning for group content to be soloable. They think it's unfair that "endgame" content isn't accessible to the solo player etc. IMO they need to get with the program, stretch a little and group up.

Additionally I routinely see posts wanting more PvE content added to Cyrodiil. Personally, I'm very happy with the way Cyrodiil looks right now. I very much like that there isn't an NPC/MOB hiding behind every tree and that there are stretches with nothing but beautiful scenery. Any more NPC clutter would interfere with potential PvP situations, especially once the "blood porting" crap is curtailed.

I have no issues with new solo content that keeps to it's own and doesn't interfere with group or PvP play. In fact I encourage that. I think there is a place for Solo and group play in an MMO and think variety is good. I play both. I like both.

kewl · October 2014

Vizier wrote: »

Additionally I routinely see posts wanting more PvE content added to Cyrodiil. Personally, I'm very happy with the way Cyrodiil looks right now. I very much like that there isn't an NPC/MOB hiding behind every tree and that there are stretches with nothing but beautiful scenery.

Well said.

Arthur_Spoonfondle · October 2014

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

You're playing a MMO (Massive Multiplayer Online) and you say you don't want to group with others and would rather be alone? Do you guys really not understand what a MMO is?

You're saying "Yea, I want a MMO, but just without the other players." That's not how it works.

If you want solo content go play Skyrim, or another Elder Scrolls game, and wait for the next one. ZoS said that they would be focusing on grouping and making the game more social before they came out and now all of you are surprised that a MMO doesn't encourage single player?

Some people like to play ESO solo, that's the way it is, if you don't like it, that's up to you but, it does not give you the right to criticise solo players for not wanting to play the same you do. Your hostile attitude serves only to weaken your argument.

Braidas · October 2014

Cazic wrote: »

I believe the OP is coming from a more traditional MMO standpoint. I agree on that level.

However, the genre has progressed a lot over the years, and ESO is not a traditional MMO. It is supposed to please MMO fans as well as TES fans, and everything in between. It does a good job of this in my opinion, but it's impossible to please everyone.

There is a lot of group content in this game, as well as lot of solo content. OP, I share your view to a certain extent, but have accepted that MMOs these days to cater to solo players. Even during solo play, it's cool to encounter other people randomly, it makes you feel like you're part of a living world even if you aren't making an effort to group up with those people. A win-win situation really.

I agree and like the OP I can't help but laugh when people ask for more solo content. Just don't know why you would buy an MMO wanting to play solo lol. But like you said, this is a TES game and expectedly it's somewhat geared towards that audience (I'm a fan of both TES and MMO's), and personally I love the idea of a game where I can do anything, playing solo included. That said, more solo content should be an after thought at best.

Samadhi · October 2014

Vizier wrote: »

Then you haven't been paying attention. These forums are full of PVE/Solo fans petitioning for group content to be soloable. They think it's unfair that "endgame" content isn't accessible to the solo player etc. IMO they need to get with the program, stretch a little and group up.
...

Would be perfectly fine with Craglorn being exclusively group content if there were any solo endgame PvE area at all.
Group content does not need to change to cater to a solo experience, if a solo experience at a comparable level is available. As of present, there is no such option.

The issue that arises with Craglorn specifically for me personally is that much of the content in the zone can be handled by 2 players instead of 4, but there are arbitrary restrictions in place that block progress regardless of being capable of completing the content with less than 4 players.

Tapio75 · October 2014

I like playing games where i can meet other people and possibly do something with them from time to time but i mostly even RP as solo player.

I absolutely hate content that is exclusively meant to one type of player.

There fore i demand that no content is exclusively reserved or meant to just one player democracy

/sarcasm

MMORPG is the term MMORPG and now that is out of the system i will just state the obvious fact about them.

MMO or rather MMORPG means that you will be online with other players and the latter RPG means that you may even roleplay there if you like.

Now let us forget the RPG abd think about MMO which still means you are online with other players
In no way does that mean you should be playing with other people, you are just in the same world with other players. ¨

Now if they ever would release game where you need to play with other players it should be called MMGO which would mean

-Massively
-Multiplayer
-Group
-Online

/Sarcasm off

Nestor · October 2014

Varicite wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

I know several people in the RW who play WOW and they all tell me the entire game leading up to the end game can be and is played solo.

"I heard this thing from a guy one time" does not a compelling argument make. Write about what you know; don't just make things up because you watched a youtube video one time.

How about you discuss what I said, which you quoted, where I stated I know several people who play WOW. Now, I have to count them, so it's...hold on, have to use my toes now...11 people who I know who play WOW. Not one. I have also watched over the shoulders of a few people while they were playing the game. I guess I needed to include all conversations with WOW players I had about this game.

So, yes that is a small population compared to the subscriber base, but if the entire sample says the same thing, then there has to be some significance to that.

And while I only talked about the one video that I saw, it was in response was to the Raid or Die comment that someone made, so I talked about the Raid video I saw. Did you really want me to critique all the videos I saw on WOW? I am sorry that I don't have a count of those. Because I have been looking for a reason to play WOW for years, but have yet to see one. Reason, those 11 folks who want me to play the game with them.

If your going to debate someone debate them over what they posted, not the words you put into their posts.

Mondrely · October 2014

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

I believe the OP is coming from a more traditional MMO standpoint.

Even the 2,000 pound MMO gorilla in the room, WOW, is played mostly, if not almost completely, Solo by people.

Let me explain to you the way leveling in WoW works.

1-15 quests (solo)
15-90 grinding dungeons with other people
90 doing raids, endgame dungeons, endgame pvp all with other players.

I don't know what you're talking about, but I did most of my leveling in WoW through questing. Sure, I did dungeons and PvP in between, but the majority of the xp was from solo stuff.

LonePirate · October 2014

The core problem here is ZOS' all or nothing approach to content. If ZOS wants to succeed, then they need to build on the successes of the 1-50 zones and the stuff people actually like about Craglorn (the Arena and Trials). Any new zone should contain quests and delves for solo players as well as Undaunted dungeons and Trials for group players. If ZOS also added world bosses and scaled all delves and dungeons to correspond to the number of people in the group (from 1-whatever), then that would be even better.

Erock25 · October 2014

I'm just annoyed that I optimized my build and gear to be able to solo craglorn quests/delves and the only reason I can not, is because certain quests/mechanics require 3+ people to activate.

Tapio75 · October 2014

I soloed wow to level 90 and even while i was doing dungeon finder at times it was basically soloing as people there could just as well be bots that just automatically message "Hi" on the beginning and random "noob" here and there.

WOW is not really good example for pro-group players but it is exellent for those who play Solo.

IrishGirlGamer · October 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

The horse texted me. He is comfortable in his grave and wants to be left alone.

Simply awesome.

eventide03b14a_ESO · October 2014

LariahHunding wrote: »

Might be because the grouping tools suck may have something to do with it.

It's also more work to form a group than it's worth. You don't need to be in a group for 95% of the content of this game. It's much faster to just do all the quests alone including public dungeons than to make sure that everyone is on the same step. Plus there is a massive amount of dialog in this game and who wants to wait for everyone to finish reading/listening to it? Solo content is great. Maybe less of it would be good or just more group content, but don't get rid of solo content.

eventide03b14a_ESO · October 2014

R1ckyDaMan wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

You can have it all. I grant you there is plenty of solo content in this game and there is comparatively very little in the way of group content 1-49. The answer is to add more group content to that level range. But honestly given how quickly you fly through the first 50 levels I'd say it doesn't matter that much anyway.

There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone grouping between lvls 1 - 49 (apart from phasing of course).

There is a difficulty barrier in the way of anyone doing craglorn on their own while choosing to help people or asking for help along the way.

No there isn't technically anything stopping people. I duoed a lot of the non vet content with my partner, but only because we wanted to spend time together. No part of it justified being in a group though.

Audigy · October 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

The core problem here is ZOS' all or nothing approach to content. If ZOS wants to succeed, then they need to build on the successes of the 1-50 zones and the stuff people actually like about Craglorn (the Arena and Trials). Any new zone should contain quests and delves for solo players as well as Undaunted dungeons and Trials for group players. If ZOS also added world bosses and scaled all delves and dungeons to correspond to the number of people in the group (from 1-whatever), then that would be even better.

This model I don't like a lot to be honest.

It feels wrong going to a open world, being forced to first play solo and then being forced to play in a group. This negates any type of free will and this is what we currently have at ESO and so many MMOs.

You must play solo from 1-max level and from then you must group. Its a bad system for a player who wants to play with others, just like it is for someone who wants to not meet anyone.

In my opinion that whole forcing is not good for an MMO, everyone should be able to play how he wants to and this only works if that whole group invite stuff is finally removed but strong events and encounters are added in the open world or public raids & dungeons so that everyone can do there and then people automatically play together to fight these evil things off without having all the Drama about no solo or too much group etc.

If you go party in RL you also don't make a contract with others beforehand, no you just do it on the fly in the club and this is how it should work in games too.

Ghettobird52 · October 2014

kewl wrote: »

This game attracted allot of MMO first timers because of TES (generally, single player types.) Grouping had to be done well for these people to be integrated, and ZOS bungled it badly:
Group questing is difficult because of phasing restrictions.

Systems behind the grouping tool are just awful.

Dungeons can only be done once, for a very small window of time.

I solo more in ESO than I have in any other MMO. It's just how the game was designed.

Agreed they attracted many first timers and did a horrible job with the little group action they did. On a second note they should have more increments of group play earlier in the game so more people get used to grouping.

Also I hope people realize that mmo became the quick name for the original; mmorpg. People saying mmos aren't RPGs?

Valen_Byte · October 2014

I like ESO.

Varicite · October 2014

Nestor wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

I know several people in the RW who play WOW and they all tell me the entire game leading up to the end game can be and is played solo.

"I heard this thing from a guy one time" does not a compelling argument make. Write about what you know; don't just make things up because you watched a youtube video one time.

How about you discuss what I said, which you quoted, where I stated I know several people who play WOW. Now, I have to count them, so it's...hold on, have to use my toes now...11 people who I know who play WOW. Not one. I have also watched over the shoulders of a few people while they were playing the game. I guess I needed to include all conversations with WOW players I had about this game.

So, yes that is a small population compared to the subscriber base, but if the entire sample says the same thing, then there has to be some significance to that.

And while I only talked about the one video that I saw, it was in response was to the Raid or Die comment that someone made, so I talked about the Raid video I saw. Did you really want me to critique all the videos I saw on WOW? I am sorry that I don't have a count of those. Because I have been looking for a reason to play WOW for years, but have yet to see one. Reason, those 11 folks who want me to play the game with them.

If your going to debate someone debate them over what they posted, not the words you put into their posts.

I suppose the fact that you're actually wrong about what you said should also factor in there somewhere too, hmm?

WoW endgame is not exactly solo-friendly. You won't be soloing Celestials, raids, PvP, arenas, etc. You won't be getting the best gear solo. You definitely won't be crafting the best gear that can be crafted unless you are grouping.

You were using the "2,000 lb gorilla" as an example for a game that can be soloed, and the simple fact is that "gorilla" is very much like ESO. You can solo to endgame, but once you get there, you won't be doing much of anything on your own outside of working on professions and the daily quests that are available.

Let's just move on to something actually relevant now, shall we?

PS) No need to get upset simply because I pointed out that you made an extremely terrible example, which you admittedly know very little about.

Dalexx · October 2014

Braidas wrote: »

I agree and like the OP I can't help but laugh when people ask for more solo content. Just don't know why you would buy an MMO wanting to play solo lol. But like you said, this is a TES game and expectedly it's somewhat geared towards that audience (I'm a fan of both TES and MMO's), and personally I love the idea of a game where I can do anything, playing solo included. That said, more solo content should be an after thought at best.

I myself don't understand people who can't play a video game without having at least 1 friend with them. I mean as the new generation become so co-dependent that they can't do anything without a group?

I still stick with the fact that just because I live in New York City (MMO) doesn't mean I want to do every single thing with a group. Can't go to the gym, I don't have anyone to go with. Can't go eat, watch a movie, pee because I need someone to hang with.

Maybe it's a young versus older thing. From 19-25ish, I was always doing things with herds of friends. But job, wife, kids ended a lot of the herd activity. I had to do and get stuff done when I had my windows of opportunity.

I like MMOs better because most single player games are play once or twice and out side of Xpacks don't have much changes. MMOs have new raids, holiday events, stuff to just run around and explore, achievements to run around and do. I can still run RAIDs with groups of 10-19 other people 3-4 night a week and I can still appreciate just having solo content to do on my time

Audigy · October 2014

Dalexx wrote: »

Braidas wrote: »

I agree and like the OP I can't help but laugh when people ask for more solo content. Just don't know why you would buy an MMO wanting to play solo lol. But like you said, this is a TES game and expectedly it's somewhat geared towards that audience (I'm a fan of both TES and MMO's), and personally I love the idea of a game where I can do anything, playing solo included. That said, more solo content should be an after thought at best.

I myself don't understand people who can't play a video game without having at least 1 friend with them. I mean as the new generation become so co-dependent that they can't do anything without a group?

I still stick with the fact that just because I live in New York City (MMO) doesn't mean I want to do every single thing with a group. Can't go to the gym, I don't have anyone to go with. Can't go eat, watch a movie, pee because I need someone to hang with.

Maybe it's a young versus older thing. From 19-25ish, I was always doing things with herds of friends. But job, wife, kids ended a lot of the herd activity. I had to do and get stuff done when I had my windows of opportunity.

I don't think you can generalize it like that.

In games but also in RL people are different. Someone isn't automatically a bad person just because he enjoys company, actually we humans are made for doing stuff with others, this is in our genes.

Sure there are also people who prefer to be alone but if someone doesn't want to be alone then this has nothing to do with him being awkward or dependent on others as you say

You also need to consider that someone who picks an MMO might do this because of other players and the chance to do stuff with them. I mean, if you play soccer then most likely not because you want to be alone do you?

Gaming works the same, you have things for solo gamers just like you have things for solo athletes. No matter what someone picks, he isn't a bad person just because of this.

I honestly don't think that such a discussion would ever come up at the Skyrim forum as people know its a solo game. But at MMO forums these discussions about not wanting others in "their" game always come up and they are tiresome. Its an MMO so it is a game with others, people should just accept this and move on.

That said, what I mentioned earlier still applies. Forced group is bad, free will group is necessary and of this ESO has almost nothing so far.