I don't understand people who want Solo Content

tordr86b16_ESO

Forced grouping to level your character = bad.
Optional grouping = good.
Incentives to group up and kill bosses = good.
Trash loot drops from group bosses = bad.

Kalann_Pander

Content should just scale to the size of the group (including size = 1)

Then the poor horse could finally sleep in peace.

Varicite

Kalann_Pander wrote: »

Content should just scale to the size of the group (including size = 1)

Then the poor horse could finally sleep in peace.

The issue is that a lot of the content that solo players want to do alone isn't designed or even intended for a group size of 1.

It's designed for people to play together. It's not really all that unheard of in a MMO setting for activities to be designed for groups.

How would people feel about doing the group activities solo, but not gaining any item rewards for it?

I certainly don't think that solo players should be able to solo scaled-down group content and then walk away w/ the same rewards as people who group for the content the way it was intended.

xChewtoyx

I think the big complaint most soloers have with ESO is being forced to group up to level your character, not what to do at endgame. I expect to have to group up for raids, dungeons and pvp etc. but not questing as part of the leveling process.
I had no problem soloing up to max level in any game I've ever played including WOW. I'm not having much trouble here either its just kind of annoying.

Ourorboros

I'm a mostly solo player who groups at times. From the posts here, that description seems to fit A LOT of players. I gave no thought to Craglorn quests requiring groups. I've grinded a few VR levels there, and spent some time there gathering resources-though I tread lightly there since one misstep can kill you.
But two things bother me about Craglorn as a mostly solo player. One is new skyshards that I can only get by stocking up on soul gems and dying a lot if I can't find a group. The other is introducing a new trait that is only accessible through group play, or buying it. As a crafter with only a handful of traits left to reseach, it's disappointing that my options to get nirnhoned items is so limited, with NO chance to get them on my own. Keep in mind, ZOS has made a big deal out of their craft system, so why did they exclude many crafters from new crafting content?

Varicite

Ourorboros wrote: »

I'm a mostly solo player who groups at times. From the posts here, that description seems to fit A LOT of players. I gave not thought to Craglorn quests requiring groups. I've grinded a few VR levels there, and spent some time there gathering resources-though I tread lightly there since one misstep can kill you.
But two things bother me about Craglorn as a mostly solo player. One is new skyshards that I can only get by stocking up on soul gems and dying a lot if I can't find a group. The other is introducing a new trait that is only accessible through group play, or buying it. As a crafter with only a handful of traits left to reseach, it's disappointing that my options to get nirnhoned items is so limited, with NO chance to get them on my own. Keep in mind, ZOS has made a bid deal out of their craft system, so why did they exclude many crafters from new content?

I'm not so sure that they are "excluding many crafters from new content" so much as "encouraging more players to play together through new content".

That's just the way I see it.

If someone invites you to a party, and you say that you don't want to go, you aren't being excluded... You're excluding yourself.

xChewtoyx wrote: »

I think the big complaint most soloers have with ESO is being forced to group up to level your character, not what to do at endgame. I expect to have to group up for raids, dungeons and pvp etc. but not questing as part of the leveling process.
I had no problem soloing up to max level in any game I've ever played including WOW. I'm not having much trouble here either its just kind of annoying.

Exactly what leveling content is there in this game that you are being "forced" to group for, outside of the few dungeons that require 4 players and are not required for leveling whatsoever?

You should be able to solo from lv1-VR10 w/out any issue, especially after the VR content nerf.

Ourorboros

Varicite wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

I'm a mostly solo player who groups at times. From the posts here, that description seems to fit A LOT of players. I gave not thought to Craglorn quests requiring groups. I've grinded a few VR levels there, and spent some time there gathering resources-though I tread lightly there since one misstep can kill you.
But two things bother me about Craglorn as a mostly solo player. One is new skyshards that I can only get by stocking up on soul gems and dying a lot if I can't find a group. The other is introducing a new trait that is only accessible through group play, or buying it. As a crafter with only a handful of traits left to reseach, it's disappointing that my options to get nirnhoned items is so limited, with NO chance to get them on my own. Keep in mind, ZOS has made a bid deal out of their craft system, so why did they exclude many crafters from new content?

I'm not so sure that they are "excluding many crafters from new content" so much as "encouraging more players to play together through new content".

That's just the way I see it.

If someone invites you to a party, and you say that you don't want to go, you aren't being excluded... You're excluding yourself.

xChewtoyx wrote: »

I think the big complaint most soloers have with ESO is being forced to group up to level your character, not what to do at endgame. I expect to have to group up for raids, dungeons and pvp etc. but not questing as part of the leveling process.
I had no problem soloing up to max level in any game I've ever played including WOW. I'm not having much trouble here either its just kind of annoying.

Exactly what leveling content is there in this game that you are being "forced" to group for, outside of the few dungeons that require 4 players and are not required for leveling whatsoever?

You should be able to solo from lv1-VR10 w/out any issue, especially after the VR content nerf.

You make a good point, and I do group as needed. However, crafting is NOT a group activity, so it seems unreasonable to limit access to crafting materials to groups.

xChewtoyx

Varicite wrote: »

Exactly what leveling content is there in this game that you are being "forced" to group for, outside of the few dungeons that require 4 players and are not required for leveling whatsoever?

You should be able to solo from lv1-VR10 w/out any issue, especially after the VR content nerf.

I would consider Craglorn leveling content. I had zero problem leveling VR 1-10 prior to the nerf and certainly not after it.

Varicite

xChewtoyx wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Exactly what leveling content is there in this game that you are being "forced" to group for, outside of the few dungeons that require 4 players and are not required for leveling whatsoever?

You should be able to solo from lv1-VR10 w/out any issue, especially after the VR content nerf.

I would consider Craglorn leveling content. I had zero problem leveling VR 1-10 prior to the nerf and certainly not after it.

Ah, that makes more sense now. Thanks for clarification.

tordr86b16_ESO

xChewtoyx wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Exactly what leveling content is there in this game that you are being "forced" to group for, outside of the few dungeons that require 4 players and are not required for leveling whatsoever?

You should be able to solo from lv1-VR10 w/out any issue, especially after the VR content nerf.

I would consider Craglorn leveling content. I had zero problem leveling VR 1-10 prior to the nerf and certainly not after it.

vr 1 to 10 is not the issue, 10 to 14 is.

Mission

I always considered an mmo just a persistant game that a lot of people playing at the same time and able to interact with them if you choose to, If you don't that's fine too.

Sablemane

In the spirit of Animal House - SOLO! SOLO! SOLO!

Soulshine

Simple truth @bosmern_ESO, is that you will never have an MMO these days that does not include solo content, players that enjoy it and demand it, or developers that will not categorically assure their games have it.

Even for me, a self-confessed raider (a supposed dying and hated breed of player these days…) I know that not all content in the game is for groups nor should it be for obvious reasons: people do not have the same goals from their game time as I do. It’s all been said before: some want to RP, some group, some solo, some raid, some craft…. Some have absolutely no RL at all and live in their MMOs 24/7, some only have 2 hrs a week or a month to play, some take 6 months to get to lvl30, some get to vr14 in a week….

You cannot dictate to people how, when, where, and with whom they are supposed to play, especially if they are paying for the privilege of access to the game. Like any consumer, players will demand certain things from their product – raiders want raids (we have NONE by the way here in ESO sorry to say – Trials/Arenas are NOT raids…), groupers want groups (plenty to do there and growing….) soloers want soloable stuff (1-vr10: LOTS of soloable stuff! but none right now at cap…)

To EVERYONE: ZoS is trying their best to meet the dichotomy. Time can only tell if they will succeed. But I do know one thing having seen it all too many times before in other games I have been in: if you are going to begin picking sides and spewing vitriol at anyone not on yours, you will be an active contributor to the demise of the community for the very game you claim to want to save. Once there is such a massive split in the players, it’s pretty much all over in terms of enjoyment for anyone..... and people, as we now, will leave for greener, friendlier, happier pastures. Try a little tolerance please.

timidobserver

I like group content. I do trials daily and dragonstar arena semi-regularly. What I don't like is having to have a group to do basic quest progression.

Epona222

I understand why people want solo content, I group with my guild for events on Thursday and Friday nights (and sometimes Saturday for a joint activity with our sister guild) and I enjoy grouping, but what do I do if I have done all the VR zone content that is possible to do solo and want to play on Monday morning when no-one else is around? (Don't say "make an alt", because I already have the small number of character slots filled with characters that I play).

I want some VR endgame content that I can do solo when there is no-one around interested in grouping. Otherwise the only time I can play is when I can get a group together, and that isn't always possible.

EDIT: I would actually prefer zones released in future to encompass a mix of activities for both solo and group play (having zones just for groups or just for solo is always going to annoy someone), there is no reason why a zone could not include solo quests, solo delves, group quests, 4 person dungeons, and various levels of trials scaled for different sized groups.

Elf_Boy

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Do you guys really not understand what a MMO is?

I understand it perfectly.

MMO means Massive Multiplayer Online. Where is Group in that description? It's not even in RPG, which stands for Role Playing Game.

MMO's can allow for group play, does not mean it's required or even has to be part of the game. All it means is your playing the game with others around on the same server as you.

No, you obviously don't understand what a MMO is, the focal point of a MMO is grouping and playing with others not just them being there. If you want to play solo go play a solo game.

That may be your focus. It is not mine.

This world works just fine.

It may surprise you to learn people also do a whole lot of solo play in wow as well as most other MMO type games.

I dont expect you to play the game the way I enjoy it. Please dont expect me to play the game -- or try to set an expectation that I play - the way you enjoy it.

This game has plenty of room for both solo and group play.

BBSooner

I just simply want content diversity. As of writing this, ESO contains:

Easy solo content
Easy group content
Difficult group content

A lack of difficult solo content is something I hope ZOS addresses. I am looking for solo content that pressures the player to get better that I can experience in the off hours when getting a group together is unrealistic. I would like solo content that you must use weapon swap, CC, interrupts, dodging, blocking, platforming, etc. otherwise the player will fail (and many should fail until their ability rises). I would like difficult content that is explicitly designed for solo; some people who suggest I take my character solo in to veteran crypt to bang my head against a wall for an hour is not a solution.

I don't wish for difficult solo content to take the forefront of development, I just want it to exist.

babylon

BBSooner wrote: »

I just simply want content diversity. As of writing this, ESO contains:

Easy solo content
Easy group content
Difficult group content

A lack of difficult solo content is something I hope ZOS addresses. I am looking for solo content that pressures the player to get better that I can experience in the off hours when getting a group together is unrealistic. I would like solo content that you must use weapon swap, CC, interrupts, dodging, blocking, platforming, etc. otherwise the player will fail (and many should fail until their ability rises). I would like difficult content that is explicitly designed for solo; some people who suggest I take my character solo in to veteran crypt to bang my head against a wall for an hour is not a solution.

I don't wish for difficult solo content to take the forefront of development, I just want it to exist.

You might like this idea - Crafting Quests - Solo Player Endgame

SantieClaws

As I said in another thread solo players are not the same thing as people who want to play a single player game.

I like having other players around in the world. I like trading with them, I like seeing the random things they do, I like talking to them, I like helping them out.

That does not mean I always want to group up and complete quests with them.

Kego

Nestor wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

I believe the OP is coming from a more traditional MMO standpoint.

Even the 2,000 pound MMO gorilla in the room, WOW, is played mostly, if not almost completely, Solo by people.

Yes from Lvl 1 to Maximum. From there you can do ONLY Group Content. But on the other hand. The fastest way to level in WoW is grinding Group Instances.

Dungeons = Group
Raids = Group
PvP = Group

There is no true Solo Content in WoW. You always need a Group, as long as you are not doing Daily Quests for Gold/Reputation Grind.

Mondo

I dont understand people who dont let other play theyr way. Are they insulting you? No then get back in the Trollcave

Curragraigue

I don't understand people that feel the need to tell others how to play a game in the way they want them to.

People will play the game the way they want to. The game can be played solo and/or in a group where it is not solo content. You can't force people to group if they don't want to.

Plenty of other threads setting out why irl reasons are the reason why some people want to play the game solo sometimes, get over it.

Audigy

timidobserver wrote: »

I like group content. I do trials daily and dragonstar arena semi-regularly. What I don't like is having to have a group to do basic quest progression.

For me its the other way around.

I almost hate the raid or die philosophy of MMOs these days when the only thing that you can do is raid once you reach max level.

With ESO release I was so happy that this wasn't the case, I dinged 50 and could do really good stuff there in the old VRs.
Its what I love about MMOs, seeing a big boss in the open world which I can only kill with others while not being forced into a guild or raid group to do so.

Sadly this was removed with a recent update so that ESO right now is the typical Raid or Die game like many others.

To me not being able to group with passer byes from level 1 - max level is a pain already but to take this away from the max level content is something I still struggle with.

Craglorn isn't a real alternative as hardly anyone plays it without using exploits, plus its all about premades for the dungeons there and for those I simply put don't have the time and willpower anymore in MMOs.

Aenra

i understand why you cannot understand, OP

i understand why your grey matter is limited to thinking
group = loot party, or group = kill pvp
because in practice, that's what it sadly boils down to isn't it

i understand therefore why you cannot comprehend how to someone like me people mean story/something out of nothing, dialogue, a social aspect, different ways of viewing at the same thing. Sharing a world. Not for the outcome

i understand why with so many like yourself, no dev has needed to be original in the last 10+ years, why bother anyway

i understand why you utterly fail to acknowledge that a significant part of the problem is you and your limited, narrow minded mentality

what i do not understand, is why of all games available, you chose one as solo-centric as ESO to come asking about solo people. Most especially with so many of us hailing from older TES titles..that i do not get

Tabbycat

Are there any other recently released MMOs that do force you to do group content in order to reach max level?

Rune_Relic

Audigy wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

I believe the OP is coming from a more traditional MMO standpoint.

Even the 2,000 pound MMO gorilla in the room, WOW, is played mostly, if not almost completely, Solo by people.

Its not.

WOW is a full on group MMO, when was the last time you played? The days of Vanilla and TBC are sadly over where solo and group did coexist.

Today WOW is all about raiding or dying - the reason why Blizz lost half of their subs since WOTLK when all that mess started to crawl in.


ESO has a perfect mix if you ask me, just that it lacks group content in the lower level brackets while the max level is full of it. It should be balanced out more evenly so that a person who wants to group right from level 1 has the chance to do so just like someone who wants to solo on max level doesn't need to raid.


That whole group or not argument in regards of MMOs is silly and I don't know why people come up with that every time.

An MMO is a game that is supposed to be played with others, in a world with others and not like Skyrim in solo dungeons. This is the case since two centuries and I don't understand why new MMO fans always mix that up with their traditional RPG like Skyrim, Morrowind or Gothic.


The whole issue in regards of ESO but also WOW is the faulty balance of group and solo.

At ESO but also WOW you play all alone until you reach max level, grouping is actually your enemy as you lose important quest npcs or drops to other players, even though ESO does a lot better there already than WOW.

But once that a player hits max level, he or she must group and these groups are hostile and arrogant towards new players or less skilled ones. People wont let you into their groups unless you are some uber nerd without RL and this drives so many people away from the original intention of MMOs - the play together.

In my opinion an MMO should be like EQ, WOW Vanilla or Ultima were. Games where you meet encounters right from the first day in the game which require the help of others. This would create a healthy and friendly atmosphere as everyone needs everyone to beat the big stuff but for joining you don't need to post your GS or Armory profile, no you just need to be there when something happens.

I had high hopes in regards of that for ESO and it worked ok in the first few weeks but then the VR zones and world bosses were dumped down so they could be soloed while everything group related was added for max level players (trials, dungeons, Arena, Craglorn) and this is garbage.

People will never respect each other or learn how to play together if they quest all alone for weeks in an MMO, this is the wrong way to do it and I see pitch black for ESO if this wont change.

If they don't fix the balance in regards of grouping we will end up with having solo only play until max level and then its all about raid or die, just like it is at WOW.

Varicite wrote: »

Kalann_Pander wrote: »

Content should just scale to the size of the group (including size = 1)

Then the poor horse could finally sleep in peace.

The issue is that a lot of the content that solo players want to do alone isn't designed or even intended for a group size of 1.

It's designed for people to play together. It's not really all that unheard of in a MMO setting for activities to be designed for groups.

How would people feel about doing the group activities solo, but not gaining any item rewards for it?

I certainly don't think that solo players should be able to solo scaled-down group content and then walk away w/ the same rewards as people who group for the content the way it was intended.

Then give us a mercenaries option.
I am more than happy to take on group content that cant be solo'd with mercs.
When I am competent I can group well I will join a group without fear of ridicule.
But TBH I see no reason why group content cant be dummed down to 1 player level.
Reward penalties are fine.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

You're playing a MMO (Massive Multiplayer Online) and you say you don't want to group with others and would rather be alone? Do you guys really not understand what a MMO is?

There's no such thing as an 'MMO', there's no noun in that phrase, the real acronym is MMORPG .. the 'G' is the noun .. is also doesn't stand for group.

There, your English language literacy just improved, no need to thank me.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Do you guys really not understand what a MMO is?

I understand it perfectly.

MMO means Massive Multiplayer Online. Where is Group in that description? It's not even in RPG, which stands for Role Playing Game.

MMO's can allow for group play, does not mean it's required or even has to be part of the game. All it means is your playing the game with others around on the same server as you.

No, you obviously don't understand what a MMO is, the focal point of a MMO is grouping and playing with others

I play with others when the mood strikes, most 'soloers' do I would suggest, event like world bosses, public dungeons, etc. .. what YOU don't understand is that many aren't interested in the formal groups you're alluding to in which yoiu have to put up with elitist jerks belittling your skill and berating your class build.

RSram

I do see the OP's argument as valid, but ESO was advertised that if you liked Skyrim, you would like ESO. Well Skyrim is a solo game correct?

ESO offers an enormous value for solo players. With the exception of group dungeons, most of the challenges can be done solo.

The OP needs to thank the solo players for continuing to play ESO despite their complaints because these players keep the money rolling in for more game expansions.

Most of the my die hard MMO friend have already canceled their subscription to ESO because the game offered nothing new to the MMO experience, so they played all the content and went back to WOW.

Xeres14

Well I'm pretty sure the leveling content is mostly geared for solo players. As for end game I think there should be something for everyone if they can do it, but I think solo content will have little replayability.