I don't understand people who want Solo Content

eventide03b14a_ESO · October 2014

You can have it all. I grant you there is plenty of solo content in this game and there is comparatively very little in the way of group content 1-49. The answer is to add more group content to that level range. But honestly given how quickly you fly through the first 50 levels I'd say it doesn't matter that much anyway.

Gilvoth · October 2014

i prefer solo dungeons and solo play with alot of people around outside of those things. i like having people around in the game and environment, i just don't want them in my dungeon and in my quests.
this is not new and it is not uncommon, look at dungeons and dragons online dungeons, - you can set them to solo -
nothing new going on here.
you have your group and friends to play with, go enjoy that and have fun.
those of us who love solo content and solo play do not have fun with others like you do, allow us to have our fun just like you are having your fun.
please stop insulting us by calling us names and saying mean things about us who enjoy solo play.

thank you

jambam817_ESO · October 2014

I made a discussion about this as well, its currently closed, but i made a few of the same points

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/133638/solo-players-youre-telling-me#latest

This community won't hear it, OP. This is a soloers game. I don't understand it either, i can play plenty of single player RPGs without an internet connection or Sub fee, but everyone here is quite happy with this model.

Have fun trying to convince everyone. I've left guilds because of this attitude...

LariahHunding · October 2014

Might be because the grouping tools suck may have something to do with it.

daneyulebub17_ESO · October 2014

Please don't tell me how I should want to play. MMOs are NOT just about grouping. To me, non-MMOs feel lifeless and sterile. In MMOs, even if I don't interact with people at all some nights, the dynamic of seeing others around, people watching, tuning in to Zone chat, checking the guild stores, joining in killing a mob or an anchor fight, etc. makes things much more vibrant and lively and unpredictable, even if I don't particularly feel like grouping with them much of the time. (And this doesn't even get into PVP, where a solo player still depends on others being around for prey.)

For me--there's a whole different feel to an MMO world--it's an active, live place, with real people moving around, chatting, selling things, goofing around--that you just don't get with a single player game. It's not just grouping that makes an MMO--far from it. Just as in real life I don't necessarily say more than a quick hi to my neighbors but still enjoy having them and don't live out in the middle of nowhere--in a game, people can be gregarious without necessarily wanting to be "on" socially all the time. In my case, an MMO satisfies my naturally introverted nature. I'm not anti-social, I like to be around people, but the truth is, I still often enjoy being alone in a crowd.

R1ckyDaMan · October 2014

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

You can have it all. I grant you there is plenty of solo content in this game and there is comparatively very little in the way of group content 1-49. The answer is to add more group content to that level range. But honestly given how quickly you fly through the first 50 levels I'd say it doesn't matter that much anyway.

There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone grouping between lvls 1 - 49 (apart from phasing of course).

There is a difficulty barrier in the way of anyone doing craglorn on their own while choosing to help people or asking for help along the way.

Drazhar14 · October 2014

My theory is, the majority of people playing this game are Elder Scrolls fans, who prefer solo adventures. Me personally, all I wanted was an Elder Scrolls game with coop, so a friend could jump in every now and then. I never wanted a full out mmo.

Deheart · October 2014

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Do you guys really not understand what a MMO is?

I understand it perfectly.

MMO means Massive Multiplayer Online. Where is Group in that description? It's not even in RPG, which stands for Role Playing Game.

MMO's can allow for group play, does not mean it's required or even has to be part of the game. All it means is your playing the game with others around on the same server as you.

No, you obviously don't understand what a MMO is, the focal point of a MMO is grouping and playing with others not just them being there. If you want to play solo go play a solo game.

I play mmo's for the fact that there are others I can chat and interact with if I want to. But I find that a lot of random players end up being jerks if I don't play to their "elite" status. So I end up playing solo a lot of the time and occasionally chatting. Also another reason I play MMO's is the economy and how it is actually affected by players rather than just npc prices.

And don't forget, the majority of the player base for this particuar MMO came here from a Solo player game world series.

purple-magicb16_ESO · October 2014

rlbolab14a_ESO wrote: »

It's not ignorance. I'm a solo player. Always have been a solo player even back in my EQ day's I would group very seldom. I like going in my own pace. I hate to be the one that screwed it up for everyone else. And to top it off my play times are kind of wacked. I have two little kids and sometimes they wake up in the middle of the night while I play because they had a bad dream, or they don't feel good, or because they can't sleep. I like to have the freedom to log out without feeling like I screwed someone over so I can take care of my child like a parent should. When I PvP in GW2 I would always have mumble so I can follow along and help the server out correctly but I was never in a group in case of one of these things. So yes, I like the concept of playing with others, of PvPing, Mumble usage for a team effort, but I solo so my (this might sound worse then what I mean but) "Inconvenience" doesn't become theirs. If zone chat say's they need help with world boss or rings, I try to be the first to say invite so I can help you, but that's about my limit to grouping. Sorry if I sound "ignorant" to you.

This.^. Totally describes me to a tee. Thanks.

neueregel · October 2014

The fact that people are so ignorant about what solo players in an MMO are and what an MMO actually is, is what is more important...

Just because you want 'some' solo content doesn't mean you don't want to interact with anybody else. For instance, I like to go out and just hunt randomly and loot... Most of the content I did in all zones to get to the end game, I did myself, besides things like group dungeons and Dolmens. There are other parts of the game that the MMO provides so that players like this can interact with others. Like chat, selling and buying items from others. Crafting items for other players. Having the option to go to Craglorn and Cyridiil when you want to fight with others. So the fact that players don't understand that solo hunting doesn't equal MMO, they are just clueless... There are so many other aspects of this game that we interact with others... just because one thing we prefer to do is solo... doesn't make it a solo game....

Inversus · October 2014

jambam817_ESO wrote: »

I made a discussion about this as well, its currently closed, but i made a few of the same points

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/133638/solo-players-youre-telling-me#latest

This community won't hear it, OP. This is a soloers game. I don't understand it either, i can play plenty of single player RPGs without an internet connection or Sub fee, but everyone here is quite happy with this model.

Have fun trying to convince everyone. I've left guilds because of this attitude...

Hey, we have group content, we just want solo content as well
Nobody is saying we want to have an offline experience, we just want solo elements as well

eNumbra · October 2014

Maybe it's just me, but 1-V10 is laughably easy to solo - that's why I solo, because grouping removes any challenge to the game. This may be because they've nerfed a number of bosses since release, which they did because they made them solo instances and rather than change that, they went the other route.

PvP requires at least some impromptu grouping and Craglorn is out and other Group based zones are planned.

I stopped playing Skyrim because I finished it with and without multiple insane difficulty mods - I won Skyrim. There is literally nothing left for me to do in Skyrim. So excuse me if I want new Elder Scrolls content to play, because I'm going to continue playing ESO as solo as I can and I'm going to continue quietly resenting people who insist on grouping for everything and people who need to help on every fight.

I will also continue to maintain that the first thing that ruins multiplayer games is other players so... 3solo5you.

Pathfinder · October 2014

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

You're playing a MMO (Massive Multiplayer Online) and you say you don't want to group with others and would rather be alone? Do you guys really not understand what a MMO is?

You're saying "Yea, I want a MMO, but just without the other players." That's not how it works.

If you want solo content go play Skyrim, or another Elder Scrolls game, and wait for the next one. ZoS said that they would be focusing on grouping and making the game more social before they came out and now all of you are surprised that a MMO doesn't encourage single player?

The Ignorance of people these days...

For an MMO, I surely see very few people in the PvE zones.

Muizer · October 2014

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

You're playing a MMO (Massive Multiplayer Online) and you say you don't want to group with others and would rather be alone? Do you guys really not understand what a MMO is?

You're saying "Yea, I want a MMO, but just without the other players." That's not how it works.

If you want solo content go play Skyrim, or another Elder Scrolls game, and wait for the next one. ZoS said that they would be focusing on grouping and making the game more social before they came out and now all of you are surprised that a MMO doesn't encourage single player?

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Varokh pointed it out in a way. I'll try again.

Throughout the first 90% of the game (in terms of leveling) there's hardly any forced group content. Then you're confronted with the situation that to get the last 10% you have to play a radically different kind of game.

As you can see, I'm staying away from arguments about what an MMO is or ought to be. I'm just saying what's the current situation.

Do you think it is odd that a large part of the audience that enjoyed the first 90% doesn't like the last 10%? That's bound to happen when you change course radically.

Perhaps I could return the question to you: If you think group content is what ESO should be all about, how the hell did you get through the 90% of content that's overwhelmingly solo questing?

MiyaTheUnbroken · October 2014

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

I believe the OP is coming from a more traditional MMO standpoint. I agree on that level.

However, the genre has progressed a lot over the years, and ESO is not a traditional MMO. It is supposed to please MMO fans as well as TES fans, and everything in between. It does a good job of this in my opinion, but it's impossible to please everyone.

There is a lot of group content in this game, as well as lot of solo content. OP, I share your view to a certain extent, but have accepted that MMOs these days to cater to solo players. Even during solo play, it's cool to encounter other people randomly, it makes you feel like you're part of a living world even if you aren't making an effort to group up with those people. A win-win situation really.

It just annoys me that people want to take out the Massive Multiplayer part for an MMO and leave it just online. That's not what a MMO is or ever will be. for questing you can do it all solo easily, but for end game they want people to group up, they want to have a good social community that can actively respond to each other and to the developers of what they want.

Never have I seen a MMO with endgame thats focused on single player, because then there would be no point to it being a MMO and may as well be a single player.

One of the main reasons why solo players play alone is because of situations like this. You started off fairly calm and making valid points, but when people didn't get on board with your line of thinking, your arguments quickly devolved into insults. I don't like being insulted, so I often don't interact with people.

If you want more solo players to get involved in grouping, then perhaps work on the "good social community" part. Maybe stop insulting people you've never met. Maybe try to help them instead. Maybe show them how awesome being part of group can be instead of trying to convince them that playing alone is stupid.

Audigy · October 2014

Nestor wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

I believe the OP is coming from a more traditional MMO standpoint.

Even the 2,000 pound MMO gorilla in the room, WOW, is played mostly, if not almost completely, Solo by people.

Its not.

WOW is a full on group MMO, when was the last time you played? The days of Vanilla and TBC are sadly over where solo and group did coexist.

Today WOW is all about raiding or dying - the reason why Blizz lost half of their subs since WOTLK when all that mess started to crawl in.

ESO has a perfect mix if you ask me, just that it lacks group content in the lower level brackets while the max level is full of it. It should be balanced out more evenly so that a person who wants to group right from level 1 has the chance to do so just like someone who wants to solo on max level doesn't need to raid.

That whole group or not argument in regards of MMOs is silly and I don't know why people come up with that every time.

An MMO is a game that is supposed to be played with others, in a world with others and not like Skyrim in solo dungeons. This is the case since two centuries and I don't understand why new MMO fans always mix that up with their traditional RPG like Skyrim, Morrowind or Gothic.

The whole issue in regards of ESO but also WOW is the faulty balance of group and solo.

At ESO but also WOW you play all alone until you reach max level, grouping is actually your enemy as you lose important quest npcs or drops to other players, even though ESO does a lot better there already than WOW.

But once that a player hits max level, he or she must group and these groups are hostile and arrogant towards new players or less skilled ones. People wont let you into their groups unless you are some uber nerd without RL and this drives so many people away from the original intention of MMOs - the play together.

In my opinion an MMO should be like EQ, WOW Vanilla or Ultima were. Games where you meet encounters right from the first day in the game which require the help of others. This would create a healthy and friendly atmosphere as everyone needs everyone to beat the big stuff but for joining you don't need to post your GS or Armory profile, no you just need to be there when something happens.

I had high hopes in regards of that for ESO and it worked ok in the first few weeks but then the VR zones and world bosses were dumped down so they could be soloed while everything group related was added for max level players (trials, dungeons, Arena, Craglorn) and this is garbage.

People will never respect each other or learn how to play together if they quest all alone for weeks in an MMO, this is the wrong way to do it and I see pitch black for ESO if this wont change.

If they don't fix the balance in regards of grouping we will end up with having solo only play until max level and then its all about raid or die, just like it is at WOW.

Nox_Aeterna · October 2014

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

You're playing a MMO (Massive Multiplayer Online) and you say you don't want to group with others and would rather be alone? Do you guys really not understand what a MMO is?

You're saying "Yea, I want a MMO, but just without the other players." That's not how it works.

If you want solo content go play Skyrim, or another Elder Scrolls game, and wait for the next one. ZoS said that they would be focusing on grouping and making the game more social before they came out and now all of you are surprised that a MMO doesn't encourage single player?

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

OP you want this game to exist? Then you better accept the fact that there are a LOT of solo players in it and that they are also paying a sub , now dont deliver content to said solo player and they stop paying a sub and go play something else that does.

Zen is trying to buy time with the solo players ,but they are failing heh and by the time they finally add the new solo zone one can only imagine the amount of subs they will have lost :P.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

MikeBob · October 2014

"I don't understand people who want Solo Content"

What I don't understand is what motivates people to spend time questioning (and/or often attempting to marginalize) my preferred style of play (a personal choice that's no one's business except my own, really) - while I have absolutely no bone to pick with them about theirs.

This phenomena isn't limited only to play style choices, either - I also see it manifest in nearly every discussion thread I read about character classes: someone who doesn't/hasn't/won't play a particular class (or build, perhaps) has to chime in with negative and/or nonconstructive commentary aimed at those who do.

Are people really so insecure about what they're doing that they have to shoot down anyone who's doing something different?

Really?

smh

k9mouse · October 2014

I am a solo player and I like to take my time in quest -- listen ALL NPC dialog, read books, etc Also, I might play solo, but I do talk a lot in the zone chat, guild chat or in tells.

The Multi-player in the "word" MMO does NOT mean group! Just means that one interact with others -- that could be done in chat or in guilds -- it does not have to be in a "group" I do help people but I do not make a group that often -- run by heals or help to kill one boss or a trash mob then off to the solo content again.

Tanis-Stormbinder · October 2014

Once again I'll state. Why not make all content scale to group leader and number of party members, while keeping current party member caps. This way everyone can enjoy all aspects of the game.

Sharee · October 2014

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

No, you obviously don't understand what a MMO is, the focal point of a MMO is grouping and playing with others not just them being there.

The only focal point of any entertainment activity is to be entertained. Insisting that there is only one right way to use any form of entertainment is like insisting that dominoes should only be used for playing the domino board game and for nothing else.

Would you also like tell these people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QtdPfz_faM that they are doing it wrong?

Samadhi · October 2014

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

...
It just annoys me that people want to take out the Massive Multiplayer part for an MMO and leave it just online. ...

Want the Massive Multiplayer part, without having to be forced into grouping.
It is perfectly valid to accept things like player-driven economy and interaction with others, without wanting to group on a regular basis.

Am even perfectly fine with group content being present in game, and am glad that it is there for players who want to take part.
The complete lack of content for solo players at endgame only serves to alienate a portion of the playerbase though.

Was able to duo the Craglorn Skyshard dungeons and finish the bosses in various delves with my girlfriend. We are unable to actually progress the storyline for the area though, because it is poorly designed in such a manner as to exclude those in our circumstance.
The requirement of 4 people to complete quest steps does nothing to bring players together or encourage grouping; it simply penalizes players that do not have 4 person groups readily available.

Varicite · October 2014

Nestor wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

I believe the OP is coming from a more traditional MMO standpoint.

Even the 2,000 pound MMO gorilla in the room, WOW, is played mostly, if not almost completely, Solo by people.

Would love to see any sort of evidence of this statement.

Last I played, pretty much all of the "endgame" content was done in groups. PvP is in groups. Arenas are in groups. Raids are definitely in groups.

Or did you mean doing dailies?

Audigy · October 2014

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Once again I'll state. Why not make all content scale to group leader and number of party members, while keeping current party member caps. This way everyone can enjoy all aspects of the game.

Because this will force groups (premades)

The original idea of MMOs was about playing together but without all that "your dps is too low for my group, your class is too bad for my group, your achievements are too low for my group" ....

That whole "group" thing is silly, it has no fit in an MMO. If people see a big mob they cant beat then others are needed but for this you should never be forced to group, it should just happen in a huge world with passer byes.

The most fun in MMOs I always had when there was no group invite button, sadly these days are over now.

Nestor · October 2014

Audigy wrote: »

Its not.

WOW is a full on group MMO, when was the last time you played? The days of Vanilla and TBC are sadly over where solo and group did coexist.

Today WOW is all about raiding or dying - the reason why Blizz lost half of their subs since WOTLK when all that mess started to crawl in.

So, the end game part is forced grouped? Does not mean the rest is. And, yes, I know, with WOW, the "game" does not start until the end game and max level. And that mentality/paradigm has spilled over into other games where people are only concerned with "What's the max level and how quickly can I get there" style of play. So, they burn through content to get to an aspect of the game that could be served with a Template. Then complain that there is no content...

And when was the last time I played WOW? Never. I watched a large raid on Youtube once, yawn. If that is the point of the game, then no wonder subs are bailing. It's not something I have any interest in. I know several people in the RW who play WOW and they all tell me the entire game leading up to the end game can be and is played solo.

bellanca6561n · October 2014

As several have pointed out, World of Warcraft was not a massively multiplayer game. As it was it had to become even less so as the years went on. And it because it wasn't I never really played it for long.

I too had rather fixed views on the subject and I'd been playing MMOs since '84. Frankly I couldn't see what the fuss was over that game.

However, it proved that there was far larger market for the scripted, directed online game experience than the original concept of a narrative told by the audience that revealed something distinctive and individual about each person who played it.

This game takes it a step further. In its story driven core form NOT A SINGLE QUEST IS DIRECTED TO A GROUP. It's directed to a single hero character. You can do it as a group but the game addresses you as one person: the silent protagonist that made Skyrim a 50 million copy best selling game.

As such I enjoy it. I've loved online games longer than many of you have been alive, you children of WoW, how you try my patience. But you're here. You bought it, you play it and, damn you all, you asked for it.

You did. Nobody, but nobody nowadays puts this kind of money into an entertainment project of this magnitude without looking at the market and using hard data.

If you want a classic MMO in every way in all its glory, play Eve.

eventide03b14a_ESO · October 2014

bellanca6561n wrote: »

As several have pointed out, World of Warcraft was not a massively multiplayer game. As it was it had to become even less so as the years went on. And it because it wasn't I never really played it for long.

I too had rather fixed views on the subject and I'd been playing MMOs since '84. Frankly I couldn't see what the fuss was over that game.

However, it proved that there was far larger market for the scripted, directed online game experience than the original concept of a narrative told by the audience that revealed something distinctive and individual about each person who played it.

This game takes it a step further. In its story driven core form NOT A SINGLE QUEST IS DIRECTED TO A GROUP. It's directed to a single hero character. You can do it as a group but the game addresses you as one person: the silent protagonist that made Skyrim a 50 million copy best selling game.

As such I enjoy it. I've loved online games longer than many of you have been alive, you children of WoW, how you try my patience. But you're here. You bought it, you play it and, damn you all, you asked for it.

You did. Nobody, but nobody nowadays puts this kind of money into an entertainment project of this magnitude without looking at the market and using hard data.

If you want a classic MMO in every way in all its glory, play Eve.

How is WoW not an MMO? Do you understand the definition of MMO?

From Wikipedia:

"A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.[1] MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.

MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game

LariahHunding · October 2014

Forget arguing with him. OP will never admit the errors of his ways. Starting to to think it was a troll post.

Vizier · October 2014

Folks shouldn't have a problem with ESO solo content. The franchise specialized in solo content for two decades and so it's not difficult to understand there would be a massive amount of solo content for ESO, their first MMO.

The problem I have is this notion that PVE Solo players must have access to any and all group content as a solo player. That they are somehow disenfranchised over the need to group to complete or even participate in some of the game content is just as ridiculous as the assertion that by virtue of ESO being an MMO there should be little to no soloable content.

Both sides need to back the hell up off of each other. There is room for both in ESO.

Solo players...Leave my group content alone. You don't have any special right to be able to solo everything, whether you pay a sub or not. The sub is to access the game as is. BOO EFFING HOO that you can't get all achievements solo. That is your choice.

PvP players...this is TES with a long and rich history of solo play. Get used to it. The Elder Scrolls community has long waited for a TES MMO. If PVE/Solo/limited group players like to be in a world with other people even if they don't want to spend 24/7 with each other, that's OK.

jelliedsoup · October 2014

The es series was a solo series so to promote ESO as group only is disingenuous.