Guppet wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

So someone that plays for hours on end everyday is going to be way OP than someone who plays more part time (in regards pvp)? At the moment, if you're v14 and you go 1 on 1 with another v14, you know you're equal, the only thing setting you apart is the class and skills. There's nothing your opponent has at v14 that you can't also have.

At the moment there's a level cap and once people reach it, classes aside, its an even playing field. It sounds like this champion system has no end, so those that can put in the hours to grind are going to have a huge advantage in Cryodiil. Am I seeing this right?

Also launched with the champin system will be "the constellations crate", buyable in the ESO store for £8.99. Contains 40 champion points and a chance at a rare mount.

That may be overly cynical, but it could happen.

lol there is no cash shop at all and literally no mention of even basic character change timetable yet. Saying this "could" happen is a technically true, but it's a HUGE stretch.

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Just my impression...

Seems like a way overly complicated system.

Also seems to take away achievements that many players have worked hard for and doesn't appear to give anything back of equal or better value from what was taken away. Seems like a bait-and-switch scheme to me.

For example, I've been playing the game daily since pre-release at end Mar/begin Apr. During the workweek, I play maybe 1 hr mornings, then about 2-3 hrs evenings. More hrs on weekends. Don't know what it all boils down to in total hrs, but the time spans six months and counting.

There were 4320 hours between Mar 30 and Oct 1 (180 days). If I arbitrarily use 4 as the average number of hours played per day, that should give an example 45 hours (if my math is correct).

During this time, I've managed to get my 1st character to vr14. Currently she's started Rivenspire zone of Cadwell's Gold. My 2nd is a new vr5 doing Cadwell's Silver. I've worked hard on these two characters and feel that if ZoS knocks them back to level 50, all of my veteran rank effort will be for nothing. Near as I understand it, my estimated 45 hrs played will translate to 45 CP, but I can't spend them all at once in any way I choose due to the restrictive rotation scheme that will take a couple of YEARS to complete.

Seems like the CP scheme will force people to go backwards to 50 and start the vet ranks all over again by a different name with the passive thing supposedly being the sweetener.

I've already completed vr14 and vr5 on two characters. Why would I want to go backwards to level 50 again? Especially since the CP system seems like a never ending chase for passives.

Well no, the devs said that people are staying at the same VR levels for something like 25 hours so worst case scenario at VR14 plus your VR5 character, you'll have a few hundred CP.
Also to get the 100 point passive unlocks on every constelation, you'll only need about 900 CP.
My impression is you'll be closer to 900 than 45 when it converts.

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Since most posters on this thread see the CP system as a positive change, can anyone explain the benefits of this system to me? From my perspective, there are several powerful negatives, but the positives escape me despite having read every post on this thread so far. Although I have others, my two main concerns are these:

1. I don't like the sense that something I've worked hard for over more than six months will be taken away from me, and that what replaces it is just some semi-restricted near endless chase for passives. I've already worked for the millions of XP my characters have earned. Why do I need to start working all over again for something basically already achieved?

2. What should I do about my current characters and where they are in Cadwell's Gold and Silver? Is it worth continuing to try to finish those achievements? My main is vr14 working through Gold and my alt is vr5 working through Silver. If the vr system goes away, what happens to Cadwell's G/S, which exists only to provide content for +50 characters? I also have a level 4 Dragon Knight that I haven't progressed precisely because the impact of the CP system is uncertain.

The CP system will fundamentally change the nature of this game. Maybe it will work out great, but right now I just don't see the positives, so this is the first time I'm thoroughly discouraged to continue playing.

Cadwell's gold/silver will still be a fast way to gain CP, so If you interested in the story I think it's worth completing.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

In addition to the below, I understand the 'multiply everything by 10' factor to make things more visible, but, aside from rounding down, % increases/decreases with mathematically have the exact same effect.

Instead of the boss w/8000 hp, he'll now how 80k hp. But you'll also hit 10 times harder - so will he.

The only thing that will truly go up by a factor of 10 is the complaining.

People ***** about 1000 pt shields now, just wait until they see a 10,000 pt shield. Though mathematically the same, the perception will not be.

Expect 10x more trolls, 10x more nerf requests. (And 10x more polls...Yeah!)

First not trying to argue with you but thought of this info on my overnight and decided to expand on this. While "all stats will be multiply by 10" This wont mean that if you currently have 2.5k magika it will 25k, or if you have 190 weapon power it will be 1900. (next part quoted from tamriel foundry summit review)
"All your character’s stats, attributes, and damage values will be multiplied by 10 (for example, a Health of 2,500 would become a Health of 25,000). This will allow small percentage bonuses to realize a visible impact on your character’s stat lines."

What has been said already

"Soft caps are being removed entirely."

This will already alter damage / hp / weapon viability (duel wielding caping at soft cap earlier then anyother and how it will work with other weapon power enhancing skills"

"Impose some limits – for example, Armor (Physical resistance) caps out at 50% mitigation. On live right now, this would equate to roughly 3,000 armor."

Later also mentioned not being able to stack multiple armor buffs, weakening of light armor yea?

"Each source of benefit to a certain stat has it’s own caps. For example, buffs, equipment, traits, and more will each have their own independent maxima to contributing towards the overall limit."

This is the main point I remembered, if their are caps on buffs / equipment/ traits will mean that you will not see a strait 10x increase. As some buffs (crit surge for weapon damage will most likely have a cap)

"Once these changes are in place, the numbers in abilities, items, enchantments, weapons, etc… will all need to be changed."

This implies to me that enchantments base will be lowered (say 72 stam becomes 60, random numbers) then multipled by 10 (600).

"Compute rate limits (DPS and damage prevention)"

This computation will make it harder for people to max out dps (if done to prevent min maxing) as we currently have it, so I expect to see a drop in dps in comparison to enemies health.

"Adjust NPC and monster stats and abilities"
They actually never said they are multiplying monsters health by 10, only characters stats. So these new monters will be based around the new dps calculations and character hp. How they decide to balance this could make PVE easier or harder.

In all reality stats don't appear to really being multiplied by strait 10, only being increased so we can notice the difference in the smaller %. And it is possible that the percentage of health increase will not be equal to the percentage of damage increased based on these quotes

Cogo wrote: »

Aoife32001 wrote: »

Is it confirmed PvP campaign buffs won't pass into PvE in the future? That would be amazing, if so!

Not confirmed, but read the guild summit. It's very likely.

If this does happen then PVPers will suddenly be complaining about low population because all of the people that PVP solely to maintain their buffs will have no incentive to PVP.

@Wolfenbelle‌
My attitude is because it seems like you want them to put rank immersion into Cadwell's gold as a higher concern than fixing a system that the majority of players dislike. You come off as the sort of person that doesn't like change for the sake of disliking change.

With regard to losing something you worked for, if you read the guild summit information, it does say that you will be compensated with Champion Points for any veteran levels gained on any character on your account up to a certain cap that most people won't reach. So, in the new system anyone that has actively played multiple characters through the veteran experience will be given an advantage over everyone else.

@Merlin13KAGL , yea I know XD the only mathematical point of doing it is for the stats you are restricted by integers for (damage, hp, magika, and stamina) if you are just multiplying everything by 10 all things will stay in the same ratio, which most people who have a understanding of math should easily see.

I didn't read through all five pages so idk if this had been answered but..
As someone who doesn't like to leave cyrodiil that much, does anyone know if it will be viable to earn champion points in pvp or I'll have to go grind in pve to make any progress?

Any way you dice it I think we are going to see a big drop in the player base.

Will be interesting to see how the current grid spots become once you have the champion system in place. There will be fights over the bugged spots

I really do like the direction Zeni is taking with this. The main reason that I've been excited about ESO since they started talking about their intent years ago was the promise that it would not just be a race to end-game raiding.
Please understand, I know A LOT of people do enjoy that and that's fine (in fact I hope they continue to add such content for people that do like it), but that's not what I enjoy in a game. To finally see casual, solo/small group play embraced by an MMO is awesome.
Which leads me to my main concern about this new system. It's great in concept, but with the amount of time for advancement it promises, it will be a rather hollow reward indeed if there isn't new content in which to spend that time... I am worried here about the old-school WoW mind numbing tedium that was late-game faction-grinding... WoW's initial stab at high-end solo content.
This new system will really mean nothing if it locks you into repeating the same content over and over again (either end-game with a main, or replaying low-level content on an alt).
I don't want to be a Debby-Downer, so I will end with the fact that I fully expect Zeni will continue to periodically add new content. I would just like to voice my sincere hope that a good portion of it will be casual solo/small group content.

Cogo wrote: »

When will it sink in that no Vet player "looses" any levels?
You are level 50, with X ranks. Your rank gets replaced with equal champion points AND a skill point per rank. Those not at rank 14, will get 14 skill points as well.

Patch 1.5 removes Veteran points with Exp, which Vet rank 14 players will keep earning.

Can people not read?

Stop getting your info from players! Including myself. Get info from what Zenimax saying.

That would be great.....except Zenimax aren't saying ANYTHING like normal.

AngryNord wrote: »

Wonder what'll happen to the mobs and bosses, though? Given that non-VR players in non-VR campaigns in Cyrodiil still face VR5 mobs...

@AngryNord‌

I suspect the Battle-leveled-to-VR1 (L50, for those that want to get techical) non-VR players in the non-VR campaigns (Non-VR because you don't run into VR2+ players) will run into the L50 + champion pointed equivalent of VR5 NPC's.

Bosses and mobs will still be higher or lower than your character the same as they are now. They will just be listed a different way.

As the CP system has potential for many various character build combinations, I suspect the same for the NPC's. Some new mechanics would nice to see. Something more than ice barriers and "Move to Flank."

I'd love to see them put some more love into the NPC AI, even if it's only activated randomly. That's a note for another topic.

The relative difficulty, HP difference, Armor difference, Damage difference, etc, will effectively be unchanged.

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

@Dominoid‌
I think you made a misinterpretation of what was said, and as far as I remember we can spend 700 champion points in each group of constellations, possibly all these 700 points in the same star of the same constellation.

So the total number of points shall be 3 * 700 = 2100, which is already large enough: 1 hour for each point, 20 hours per week => more than 100 weeks are required to reach this limit.

Some who were there said they said something different at dinner along the lines of what you said, but it wasn't Maria who said it as she wasn't at dinner. I have asked Maria for clarification but haven't heard back. The linked audio in the OP on that point clearly says what I represent. Either way, it's a lot.

@timidobserver -- You responded to me: "These things lead me to believe that you dislike the changes because why would something you like or are neutral about discourage you from playing? After all of that, you respond calling the idea that you dislike the changes a strawman?"

When a person expresses concerns about the METHOD of change, that does not automatically mean they dislike change itself. Get it? I do see the CP system as taking away what we've already earned and replacing it with a different system. Why? Because that's exactly what it is.

Regarding the strawman thing, when you accuse someone of not liking change because they express concerns about the method of coming changes, that is the very definition of a strawman. "A strawman is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument." source: Wikipedia

So I'll say it again: My impression of the CP system so far is that it's overly complicated and appears to force players to reacquire something they already have achieved by a different method. CP is supposedly based on hours played, not XP earned. I see inherent unfairness in that method. All of us have earned some number of XP, but that will be ditched and only hours played will be converted to CP we then have to "spend" on passives. But when and how we spend it is restricted to rotating "constellations." Plain and simple, what that means is what we've already earned is NOT free to use by us at will, which supposedly was the original plan.