Options for Vampire Appearance

WraithAzraiel · September 2014

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

Nope, I'm actually pretty happy being a cranky old lady that gets to take out my ire on children with bad manners by being able to devour their pathetic souls with pretty little swarms of bats. I'll cheerfully take the wisdom I've gained along with the lines over the flagrant e-peen waving and childish foot stomping I see displayed on these forums so much of the time. I'm happy to be me, old bones and all, and the last thing I'd want to be is you. You see, you've just admitted here that there is actually NO logical rationale to your desire to deny players a simple cosmetic request with no effect on gameplay....because you have your knickers in a knot about a completely separate gameplay issue. So instead of starting your own thread (or contributing to the many threads already in existence regarding how much many players hate bats) discussing logically and calmly why you feel bats are OP and requesting balancing you come onto a COMPLETELY UNRELATED thread and proceed to be as unpleasant as you can possibly get away with towards complete strangers who have never done you any wrong. And you honestly expect the Devs to pay attention to you now that you've completely wrecked your credibility? Thank you for being so increadibly nasty and rude...since you are a perfect illustration of my point regarding the naysayers on this subject. I appreciate it. Really.

DAMN, hold on I'll call the burn unit.

MornaBaine · September 2014

MercyKilling wrote: »

Whisper292 wrote: »

Morna, I agree. If our buddy can do it, it would be nice if we could do it too.

I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts he keeps "well fed" so he never leaves stage one. THAT is how the NPC does it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVsaBxOxQek

That is likely EXACTLY how he does it. But it makes absolutely no sense for a vampire to have to feed every half hour. The very idea is ludicrous. And even if you take into account that a game day is actually only 6 hours long, that STILL means that a vampire must feed 12 times a day just to maintain the stage one appearance...which, as we know, even that is not a normal appearance by any means. There is currently NO way for a vampire to look normal.

jelliedsoup · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

I wear armor that completely covers me so my appearance does not act as a tell while in Cyrodil. And yet there are handy add-ons you can use to tell who is a vampire anyway. Can we ban those? The point is that no one should be able to tell anything about you by looking at you, though they'll LIKELY have an educated guess just going by your gear and weapons of choice. Yet even that isn't 100%. You can easily guess wrong. You have to see what they actually DO before you know. Which is as it should be. For everyone. However, I would not care at all if none of the appearance options I've asked for actually worked in Cyrodil. The moment I port in, the illusion could drop and that would be just fine with me. Nevermind that you are clinging to an illusion that the cosmetic appearance of vampires is somehow a deliberate "balance" to them being so "OP."

The devs decided that your old haggard looks would be penance for your skills. Not much point raging at me, when they decided that's how it is, so it's not my illusion, it was a good choice by the devs.

Most people find the good looking vampire thing a result of the teenie culture who loves twilight and all that sort of bollocks. So i think you're always going to struggle in your quest for gorgeous vampires in ESO, as many players are grown ups.

WraithAzraiel · September 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

However, in ESO your character's withered and decrepit looks help us identify your OP skills, so it does serve a purpose. I would assume the devs have realised the same thing.

So if ZOS gave the Fighter's Guild skill line a passive that was only purchaseable if said character was NOT afflicted with Lycanthropy or Vampirism that gave a max of 10% increase to Magicka/Stamina Regen, would you still consider Vamp to be OP?

Or is the fact that we have a health drain single target and possible health drain AOE make us OP? DESPITE the fact that they only exist to OFFSET the fact that we take a significant decrease to Health Regen and monstrous amounts of extra damage to fire.

EJRose83 · September 2014

Arguing within the context of appropriate lore is a little ridiculous. This isn't LOTRO, where the lore is extremely strict and limiting. This is ESO. If you want a feature to be added or modified in the game, just state your reasons why and if enough people request it, I'm sure Zenimax will be inclined to add it in.

jelliedsoup · September 2014

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

However, in ESO your character's withered and decrepit looks help us identify your OP skills, so it does serve a purpose. I would assume the devs have realised the same thing.

So if ZOS gave the Fighter's Guild skill line a passive that was only purchaseable if said character was NOT afflicted with Lycanthropy or Vampirism that gave a max of 10% increase to Magicka/Stamina Regen, would you still consider Vamp to be OP?

Or is the fact that we have a health drain single target and possible health drain AOE make us OP? DESPITE the fact that they only exist to OFFSET the fact that we take a significant decrease to Health Regen and monstrous amounts of extra damage to fire.

Devouring swarm in PvP.

MornaBaine · September 2014

Atreus wrote: »

Arguing within the context of appropriate lore is a little ridiculous. This isn't LOTRO, where the lore is extremely strict and limiting. This is ESO. If you want a feature to be added or modified in the game, just state your reasons why and if enough people request it, I'm sure Zenimax will be inclined to add it in.

Well an awful lot of people who play ESO DO care a great deal about the lore so it does make a certain amount of sense to point out that the request accords with established lore. But yes, it is my hope that Zenimax will see that many players do desire this AND they will see the logic behind granting the request.

jelliedsoup · September 2014

Atreus wrote: »

Arguing within the context of appropriate lore is a little ridiculous. This isn't LOTRO, where the lore is extremely strict and limiting. This is ESO. If you want a feature to be added or modified in the game, just state your reasons why and if enough people request it, I'm sure Zenimax will be inclined to add it in.

You mean lore can be bought? Surely not.

WraithAzraiel · September 2014

What makes it OP in PvP?

If you're talking about how people can run around and cast it over and over and over again? They're likely Sorcerers with the Power Stone passive that reduces Ultimate cost by 15%, or Emperor who gain an additional 100% Ultimate.

So where's the part about Bat Swarm in and of itself being OP?

jelliedsoup · September 2014

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

What makes it OP in PvP?

If you're talking about how people can run around and cast it over and over and over again? They're likely Sorcerers with the Power Stone passive that reduces Ultimate cost by 15%, or Emperor who gain an additional 100% Ultimate.

So where's the part about Bat Swarm in and of itself being OP?

Oh boy. Mostly the amount of damage it does. Go into PvP you smell guano whereever you go.

Its usually devouring swarm.

WraithAzraiel · September 2014

Eh well I think the amount of damage it does is based on the players Max Magicka. If Magicka builds weren't the only viable build out there, it might be manageable.

I think esohead.com allows you to make a build complete with all the calculations the game does based on how much of what stat you have.

I could be wrong though.

Vizier · September 2014

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

I think if you become a stage 4 vampire you should not be able to go to mortal cities/villages at all. Instead the vampire houses in all the zones become your hideout and the vampire npcs there offer repairs and some other options . When I was in early access and one of the first vampires that is what I wanted. I wanted to be an immortal being who is pretty much a rogue faction in the game. The stage 4 idea is nice tho so you have the option to become hated. Maybe stage 4 would be the actual trigger vampire houses to become vendors for you and hideouts.

+1 Awesome

The ostracization of vampires in regular society beyond vamp1 stage with an acceptance by their family houses for purpose of rest, food, purchase and sale of goods, etc.... would be fantastic and great for immersion.

Additionally for those that WANT to pvp alot could just be Vamp4 in the regular zones. They'd get all the fights they want. Especially if they made a Vampire Hunter section to the fighters guild that once completed opened up pvp between the two factions.

ZOS ARE YOU LISTENING???? Good god yes...do this.

Coren · September 2014

eNumbra wrote: »

Teiji wrote: »

I'd like to point out to many that this is not fact, but personal opinion.

Sorry cupcake, but no.

In ESO you were infected by a feral vampire known as a Bloodfiend; alternatively, you were infected by a vampire that was infected by a feral vampire.

Period.

You can pretend all you want... but you are young plebeian trash as far as vampires are concerned.

Actually as your soul and stuff are heavily influenced by Molag Bal (being stolen and all) you can't become a vampire from fiends, they can give you the disease yes, but you can't turn. The quest have you go to the -very first vampiress- to get the gift of Vampirism from her.

And what I would really love is if it was possible to stay locked in 'stage 1' for more than a freaking 30 minutes. I have no interest in stage 4 and the buff it gives

MornaBaine · September 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I wear armor that completely covers me so my appearance does not act as a tell while in Cyrodil. And yet there are handy add-ons you can use to tell who is a vampire anyway. Can we ban those? The point is that no one should be able to tell anything about you by looking at you, though they'll LIKELY have an educated guess just going by your gear and weapons of choice. Yet even that isn't 100%. You can easily guess wrong. You have to see what they actually DO before you know. Which is as it should be. For everyone. However, I would not care at all if none of the appearance options I've asked for actually worked in Cyrodil. The moment I port in, the illusion could drop and that would be just fine with me. Nevermind that you are clinging to an illusion that the cosmetic appearance of vampires is somehow a deliberate "balance" to them being so "OP."

The devs decided that your old haggard looks would be penance for your skills. Not much point raging at me, when they decided that's how it is, so it's not my illusion, it was a good choice by the devs.

Most people find the good looking vampire thing a result of the teenie culture who loves twilight and all that sort of bollocks. So i think you're always going to struggle in your quest for gorgeous vampires in ESO, as many players are grown ups.

I find it amusing that there are those here so quick to now suddenly attack me and hurl the word "old" as if it were an insult. I'm the one who told you I was old kids so obviously it's not something that bothers me all that much. And as an FYI vampires, regardless of the stage of appearance, never actually look old and haggard... they look like monsters. So yeah, that's how I know you're attempting, however poorly, to insult me directly.

How young you must be. Or simply painfully ignorant of history. As early as the 1830s (well before Dracula in the 1860s) vampires were portrayed as beautiful creatures. Look up La Morte Amoureus, it even has a Wikipedia entry for you since I doubt very much that reading famous historical authors is your strong suit. The legend of the Greek Lamia, an ancient bit of folklore, portrays them as beautiful women. Time and again, folklore, literature, and cinema has portrayed the vampire as beautiful as often as they have been portrayed as hideous and terrifying. So there is ample reason to believe it can go either way. All I ask is that this decision be placed in the hands of the players when it comes to their own characters.

Twilight is in no way representative of the way vampires have been portrayed down through the ages and citing it as an argument is not only completely nonsensical but simply shows the lack of knowledge possessed by those who try to hurl it about as some sort of insult towards those who like vampires.

Lastly, crying, "I don't like bats" is not a legitimate basis for arguing against this request.

Vizier · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I wear armor that completely covers me so my appearance does not act as a tell while in Cyrodil. And yet there are handy add-ons you can use to tell who is a vampire anyway. Can we ban those? The point is that no one should be able to tell anything about you by looking at you, though they'll LIKELY have an educated guess just going by your gear and weapons of choice. Yet even that isn't 100%. You can easily guess wrong. You have to see what they actually DO before you know. Which is as it should be. For everyone. However, I would not care at all if none of the appearance options I've asked for actually worked in Cyrodil. The moment I port in, the illusion could drop and that would be just fine with me. Nevermind that you are clinging to an illusion that the cosmetic appearance of vampires is somehow a deliberate "balance" to them being so "OP."

The devs decided that your old haggard looks would be penance for your skills. Not much point raging at me, when they decided that's how it is, so it's not my illusion, it was a good choice by the devs.

Most people find the good looking vampire thing a result of the teenie culture who loves twilight and all that sort of bollocks. So i think you're always going to struggle in your quest for gorgeous vampires in ESO, as many players are grown ups.

I find it amusing that there are those here so quick to now suddenly attack me and hurl the word "old" as if it were an insult. I'm the one who told you I was old kids so obviously it's not something that bothers me all that much. And as an FYI vampires, regardless of the stage of appearance, never actually look old and haggard... they look like monsters. So yeah, that's how I know you're attempting, however poorly, to insult me directly.

How young you must be. Or simply painfully ignorant of history. As early as the 1830s (well before Dracula in the 1860s) vampires were portrayed as beautiful creatures. Look up La Morte Amoureus, it even has a Wikipedia entry for you since I doubt very much that reading famous historical authors is your strong suit. The legend of the Greek Lamia, an ancient bit of folklore, portrays them as beautiful women. Time and again, folklore, literature, and cinema has portrayed the vampire as beautiful as often as they have been portrayed as hideous and terrifying. So there is ample reason to believe it can go either way. All I ask is that this decision be placed in the hands of the players when it comes to their own characters.

Twilight is in no way representative of the way vampires have been portrayed down through the ages and citing it as an argument is not only completely nonsensical but simply shows the lack of knowledge possessed by those who try to hurl it about as some sort of insult towards those who like vampires.

Lastly, crying, "I don't like bats" is not a legitimate basis for arguing against this request.

Now who's the one throwing insults? As if your the only person with the wherewithal to pick up a book. That vampires have been portrayed as wolves in sheep's clothing for centuries has little to nothing to do with the way TES / ZOS set the rules for vampires in game. Citing historical references about a mythological creature for a game not exactly following existing mythology carries no water.

I for one think the appearances of vampires need no change whatsoever and find no good reason the "request' for players to let their vampires utterly blend into the player population be entertained by ZOS. This is an MMO, where vampires have advantage and weakness. Their appearance is roughly the only thing marking them. Personally I'd like to see some kind of passive skill for fighters guild members to spot vamps, much like the skills for finding resources or Mage Light for stealthy players. Perhaps tweak the damage n crit bonus passive to also offer spotting vamps.

If folks are inclined to disregard such "requests" as this on the basis of mere preference that is their prerogative and as valid as reason as any for arguing against something.

Be amused all you want, or passive aggressive or patronizing toward those arguing their case. It doesn't strengthen your argument one bit. Frankly I'd expect better from one of our seasoned players.

MornaBaine · September 2014

Vizier wrote: »

Now who's the one throwing insults? As if your the only person with the wherewithal to pick up a book. That vampires have been portrayed as wolves in sheep's clothing for centuries has little to nothing to do with the way TES / ZOS set the rules for vampires in game. Citing historical references about a mythological creature for a game not exactly following existing mythology carries no water.

And yet in my original post (the one I keep wondering if some of the people here even read) I used the game only lore to illustrate and back my position. I brought up real world folklore, literature and cinema because other people were trying to use modern movie depictions for their arguments. If people want to say "vampires have always been ugly until Twilight" I am perfectly within my rights to point out that they are completely wrong.

Vizier wrote: »

I for one think the appearances of vampires need no change whatsoever and find no good reason the "request' for players to let their vampires utterly blend into the player population be entertained by ZOS. This is an MMO, where vampires have advantage and weakness. Their appearance is roughly the only thing marking them. Personally I'd like to see some kind of passive skill for fighters guild members to spot vamps, much like the skills for finding resources or Mage Light for stealthy players. Perhaps tweak the damage n crit bonus passive to also offer spotting vamps.

So do you feel the same way about the requests for more hairstyles and tattoos? Is your lack of desire to use a potential additional cosmetic benefit really a legitimate reason to deny it to others who would enjoy having it? Especially seeing as it would affect you in no way whatsoever?

Vizier wrote: »

If folks are inclined to disregard such "requests" as this on the basis of mere preference that is their prerogative and as valid as reason as any for arguing against something.

Actually, it's not. There is no logical reason to argue that a player should be denied a benefit that has no negative consequence for other players. The only reason for doing so is pure spite.

Vizier wrote: »

Be amused all you want, or passive aggressive or patronizing toward those arguing their case. It doesn't strengthen your argument one bit. Frankly I'd expect better from one of our seasoned players.

Actually, I'm condescending. Because those "arguing their case" have yet to do so in ANY sort of reasonable or legitimate manner. You included.

eNumbra · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

But it makes absolutely no sense for a vampire to have to feed every half hour.

Vampires don't have to feed every half hour; they have to feed every few hours.

That is the difference between real time and in game time. Deal with it.

MornaBaine · September 2014

eNumbra wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

But it makes absolutely no sense for a vampire to have to feed every half hour.

Vampires don't have to feed every half hour; they have to feed every few hours.

That is the difference between real time and in game time. Deal with it.

Did you ....ummmm.... READ the rest of my post you just partially quoted from? It is completely illogical to assume that a vampire would need to feed far in excess of 3 times a day, yet that is the case in this game if you wish to mostly maintain the Stage 1 appearance/stats. I'm okay with the stats side of it because it makes a certain amount of sense that the freshly fed "high" of energy and strength would fade relatively quickly. But there's no logically corresponding reason for their appearance to deteriorate at such a drastic rate. And please remember, I'm not saying this is something that should be universally applied to all vampires. I simply want to see it opened up as an OPTION for those who, like myself, would enjoy it.

MornaBaine · September 2014

Vizier wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Personally I think it's a waste of time, but here is my 2 cents.

1.24 hour period to advance to various stages. (Every 1/2 hour is BS in my book.)

2. Only stage 1 offers normal appearance.

3. All other stages get negative reactions from NPC.

4. Stage 4 Vampire considered threat to society and placed on criminal status. (Is fair game for Vampire hunters.)

This is a system I could easily live with as well. Most players don't mind the Stage 1 appearance and it IS significantly different from "normal" without being hideous and too "in your face." You could play it off as being anemic, generally "sickly" or even a form of albinism. What you propose would be even easier on those of us who wish to primarily remain in stage 1. I suspect there would be some negative reaction from players who like the mechanics differences in the different stages and might not feel that the negative NPC reactions are warranted before Stage 4. I, however, would disagree. A vampire in Stage 3 DOES appear as a significant threat and should make Townies fearful or, if they are brave, they might tell the vampire to get out of their town before they call the guard. And, of course, at Stage 4 they DO call the guard! At Stage 2 you might just get some Skyrim type comments from Townie NPCs who don't like the look in your eyes. And then, in order to achieve a "normal" appearance maybe there COULD be a magic item/trophy that confers that illusion for an hour (but can be reapplied at any time) but it would only work DURING Stage 1. What do you think?

Good to know it makes sense to you too. It would certainly make the game much easier on folks that don't want Vamp4 but rather Vamp1. There is some give and take AND significant consequence for being a vampire that "mingles" with the general populace.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Nor are vampires. Those are zombies you're thinking if. Vampires are not the walking dead, they are UNdead. They are not rotting, they are not dead, they have beaten death and moved beyond it. The various stages represent what happens when they starve themselves for it is the vitae of blood that animates them. In some ways, they actually grow stronger, even as their weaknesses become magnified. That is not a rotting corpse and the visual of the various stages does not look like a rotting corpse. It looks like a scary and powerful monster. Such a monster, in order to be an even more efficient predator, SHOULD have ways and means to blend among their prey. IF vampires "really" looked the way ZoS makes them look they would have been hunted to an easy extinction eons ago. But that is obviously not what has happened. Ergo, easy cosmetic variations so that players....you know, us people who pay to play this game... may have a more enjoyable experience that does not, in any way, shape or form, harm the player experience of anyone else. What is so difficult to understand about that?

I don't know that it's difficult for people to understand. It is, however, a difficult notion for people support considering how sensitive the community is right now about player vampires and the PvP advantage. Your just not going to get much sympathy from the community right now.

I'm not looking for sympathy, I'm looking for logic. Which, thus far, seems to be in painfully short supply from those arguing against this request. Feeling that the Bat Swarm Ultimate is OP has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. It should be, and is, being widely discussed in other threads that are actually dedicated to the subject. The cosmetic appearance of vampires has absolutely nothing to do with their ultimate and whether or not it's OP. I honestly don't feel qualified to judge whether it is or not. If the playerbase is able to convince ZoS that it IS in need of balancing then so be it. It is very unlikely that I will rage quit in such an event. LOL But discussion of the Ult does not belong here in this thread and there is absolutely no logical basis for claiming that the way vampires look is a reasonable and intended "disadvantage" specifically to counterbalance Bat Swarm. Sorry, but that very notion is completely ridiculous. And I'm pretty sure the people trying to use it, know it.

eNumbra · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

I simply want to see it opened up as an OPTION for those who, like myself, would enjoy it.

Problem is, that once again it brings the idea of balancing in Cyrodiil into the picture. Zenimax meant for you to not be able to hide your vampirism for good reason.

There is also no actual basis for you applying "logic" to an argument about how often a vampire needs to feed. They don't exist. They can burn, sparkle, fly, transform into bats, whatever the creators of the lore set wish; that includes having a terrible metabolism.

SirAndy · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Repeating yourself endlessly does not make you right. So sorry.

Then why are you constantly repeating yourself?

MornaBaine · September 2014

eNumbra wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I simply want to see it opened up as an OPTION for those who, like myself, would enjoy it.

Problem is, that once again it brings the idea of balancing in Cyrodiil into the picture. Zenimax meant for you to not be able to hide your vampirism for good reason.

You have yet to provide one shred of evidence for this assertion. And if it were in fact true vampires would be precluded from wearing helms that hide their faces. But they are not. This has nothing to do with "balance" in Cyrodil and I suspect you know that. However, I have already stated that I would be fine with vampires visually showing whatever Stage they happen to be in upon entering Cyrodil. Mostly because I know it doesn't matter in the first place. Vampires are not kept from hiding their appearance in Cyrodil and players are not kept from using add-ons that allow them to see who is and is not a vampire. So the truth is that it doesn't have a thing to do with PvP and your continual insistence that it does is deliberately disingenuous at best nor will it convince anyone with a shred of sense.

eNumbra wrote: »

There is also no actual basis for you applying "logic" to an argument about how often a vampire needs to feed. They don't exist. They can burn, sparkle, fly, transform into bats, whatever the creators of the lore set wish; that includes having a terrible metabolism.

To an extent this much is true. However the game itself has established the precedent that vampires can, in fact, hide their nature. I merely ask that players have the ability to do so as well if that is what they wish. Since it has no effect on mechanics, there is no reason to disallow it.

MornaBaine · September 2014

SirAndy wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Repeating yourself endlessly does not make you right. So sorry.

Then why are you constantly repeating yourself?

Because, alas, I am forced to counter the misinformation and, in some cases, outright lies, that keep being put forth here. Believe me, nothing would make me happier than a real conversation involving discernable facts that are specific to the subject at hand rather than what continually boils down to the petulant cry of, "I don't like bats!"

tordr86b16_ESO · September 2014

SirAndy wrote: »

Teiji wrote: »

If that makes sense at all?

Not really. Vampirism is an affliction, not a transformation one can call up at will.

As such, any visual effects should be permanent.

I do understand your desire to hide this affliction from other players, especially in PvP where vamps are an easy target for those who know their weaknesses.

And that really is my point, there are upsides and downsides to being a vampire. Y'all are asking for the downsides to be removed because you are bothered by them. I get that.

So here it is again:
Learn how to deal with the consequences of your decision. Own it.

what this man said.

MornaBaine · September 2014

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Teiji wrote: »

If that makes sense at all?

Not really. Vampirism is an affliction, not a transformation one can call up at will.

As such, any visual effects should be permanent.

I do understand your desire to hide this affliction from other players, especially in PvP where vamps are an easy target for those who know their weaknesses.

And that really is my point, there are upsides and downsides to being a vampire. Y'all are asking for the downsides to be removed because you are bothered by them. I get that.

So here it is again:
Learn how to deal with the consequences of your decision. Own it.

what this man said. +1

This "argument" has already been refuted several times over. It is just yet another cry of, "I don't like bats!" and has its own thread several times over.

Athas24 · September 2014

Why oh why does my Khajiit's frigging fur change colors when he becomes a vampire? He should just like...idk grow larger fangs.. a more menacing muzzle or what have you perhaps? Being a vampire doesn't change a Bosmer's hair color white so why does my jet black Khajiit turn into a snowball?!?! Stupid. Fur is more similar to hair than it is to SKIN certainly. It completely takes away any original look a Khajiit had if he becomes a vampire, which is stupid.

Vizier · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

And yet in my original post (the one I keep wondering if some of the people here even read) I used the game only lore to illustrate and back my position. I brought up real world folklore, literature and cinema because other people were trying to use modern movie depictions for their arguments. If people want to say "vampires have always been ugly until Twilight" I am perfectly within my rights to point out that they are completely wrong.

(smile) See, that's where you made your mistake. Most of us could give a flying fart about how vampires have been depicted throughout history, however, as you say, you are perfectly within your rights to point it out. Doesn't mean they have to change their minds and agree with you.

MornaBaine wrote: »

So do you feel the same way about the requests for more hairstyles and tattoos? Is your lack of desire to use a potential additional cosmetic benefit really a legitimate reason to deny it to others who would enjoy having it? Especially seeing as it would affect you in no way whatsoever?

No, I'm just biased toward vampires. I think they gain enough benefit and find it difficult enough to identify them in the heat of combat. I could care less about tattoos and hairstyles.

Besides I really do get off on seeing the pampered vampire community in ZOS frustrated over something.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Actually, it's not. There is no logical reason to argue that a player should be denied a benefit that has no negative consequence for other players. The only reason for doing so is pure spite.

It doesn't have to be logical Spock. It's a preference. My spiteful enjoyment actually comes after the fact.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Actually, I'm condescending. Because those "arguing their case" have yet to do so in ANY sort of reasonable or legitimate manner. You included.

If you say so It must be true. I suppose I'll take you at your word...

...I lied. Their preferences are legitimate enough reason for consideration in my book. Aristotelian Logic isn't exactly the beginning and end here. I appreciate that you believe you should get what you want for the reasons you stated. I and others disagree. You seem pretty upset you didn't really get the response you were hoping for.

MornaBaine · September 2014

Vizier wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

And yet in my original post (the one I keep wondering if some of the people here even read) I used the game only lore to illustrate and back my position. I brought up real world folklore, literature and cinema because other people were trying to use modern movie depictions for their arguments. If people want to say "vampires have always been ugly until Twilight" I am perfectly within my rights to point out that they are completely wrong.

(smile) See, that's where you made your mistake. Most of us could give a flying fart about how vampires have been depicted throughout history, however, as you say, you are perfectly within your rights to point it out. Doesn't mean they have to change their minds and agree with you.

MornaBaine wrote: »

So do you feel the same way about the requests for more hairstyles and tattoos? Is your lack of desire to use a potential additional cosmetic benefit really a legitimate reason to deny it to others who would enjoy having it? Especially seeing as it would affect you in no way whatsoever?

No, I'm just biased toward vampires. I think they gain enough benefit and find it difficult enough to identify them in the heat of combat. I could care less about tattoos and hairstyles.

Besides I really do get off on seeing the pampered vampire community in ZOS frustrated over something.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Actually, it's not. There is no logical reason to argue that a player should be denied a benefit that has no negative consequence for other players. The only reason for doing so is pure spite.

It doesn't have to be logical Spock. It's a preference. My spiteful enjoyment actually comes after the fact.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Actually, I'm condescending. Because those "arguing their case" have yet to do so in ANY sort of reasonable or legitimate manner. You included.

If you say so It must be true. I suppose I'll take you at your word...

...I lied. Their preferences are legitimate enough reason for consideration in my book. Aristotelian Logic isn't exactly the beginning and end here. I appreciate that you believe you should get what you want for the reasons you stated. I and others disagree. You seem pretty upset you didn't really get the response you were hoping for.

Thank you for once again perfectly proving my point about those who keep coming on here to argue for no real reason but senseless spite. I appreciate your contribution.

jelliedsoup · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

find it amusing that there are those here so quick to now suddenly attack me and hurl the word "old" as if it were an insult. I'm the one who told you I was old kids so obviously it's not something that bothers me all that much. And as an FYI vampires, regardless of the stage of appearance, never actually look old and haggard... they look like monsters. So yeah, that's how I know you're attempting, however poorly, to insult me directly.

How young you must be. Or simply painfully ignorant of history. As early as the 1830s (well before Dracula in the 1860s) vampires were portrayed as beautiful creatures. Look up La Morte Amoureus, it even has a Wikipedia entry for you since I doubt very much that reading famous historical authors is your strong suit. The legend of the Greek Lamia, an ancient bit of folklore, portrays them as beautiful women. Time and again, folklore, literature, and cinema has portrayed the vampire as beautiful as often as they have been portrayed as hideous and terrifying. So there is ample reason to believe it can go either way. All I ask is that this decision be placed in the hands of the players when it comes to their own characters.

Twilight is in no way representative of the way vampires have been portrayed down through the ages and citing it as an argument is not only completely nonsensical but simply shows the lack of knowledge possessed by those who try to hurl it about as some sort of insult towards those who like vampires.

Lastly, crying, "I don't like bats" is not a legitimate basis for arguing against this request.

I find it amusing that you seem to think your character looking old is a personal insult to you. That you can't separate your character from your own age is all the more reason not to choose a character which ages, don't become a vamp and maintain your youthful exebuerance.

I completed a post grad qualification in history so you assume incorrectly. The history I studied involved facts, not so heavy on the history of fiction. We never touched on Vlad the impaler though so you got me there.

I actually like bats, it's the amount of damage devouring swarm does.

Your arguments are fueled by emotion and plummet into name calling too quick.

The vampire market is dominated by young kids, much like Justin bieber if you expect support for this I think you're asking the wrong crowd.

eNumbra · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

You have yet to provide one shred of evidence for this assertion.

You mean other than the fact that it was designed as it is? That you become bleached white when you hit stage 3/4?
Several motifs carry sleaveless, fingerless, toeless and face uncovered pieces all of which are give aways when your character is neon white?
The fact that if they really wanted to cater to the minority percentage that wants to be a vampire, but wants to be a pretty vampire that they would have included this from the start?

And if it were in fact true vampires would be precluded from wearing helms that hide their faces. But they are not. This has nothing to do with "balance" in Cyrodil and I suspect you know that.

Because it would be *** absurd to suddenly not be able to wear a helmet because you're a vampire. If they wanted it to be *poof* "look at how mortal I am everyone" simple, they would have included it. Obviously it's possible to hide your skin with the right armor and obviously it can be seen through the instant someone has the right add-on or you pop batswarm. Part of balancing the Vamp is the FG abilities to use against them; part of being able to do that, is being able to see who is a vampire.

However, I have already stated that I would be fine with vampires visually showing whatever Stage they happen to be in upon entering Cyrodil.

Well that's lovely; there are a dozen other things that were fine in PvE that were borked in PvP but they don't balance separately and they won't start now.

To an extent this much is true. However the game itself has established the precedent that vampires can, in fact, hide their nature. I merely ask that players have the ability to do so as well if that is what they wish. Since it has no effect on mechanics, there is no reason to disallow it.

And you already have that option. Feed more.

There's also no reason to disallow a dwemeri automated horse mount; but they won't do it.