@ShunraviSeriously most over used power. Once you get max magicka regen u can just zip around. Last night a guy named [snip] was zipping in and out like a night blade....also doign 500-600 a hit with his little lighting balls. Thats pretty messed up hes doing what a NB does but way better.
@Shunravi
This discussion is beyond idiotic. I have no problems with reasonable buff to NBs in certain areas so that they can be a more viable class in areas besides the resto staff + sword and shield. I want everyone to be able to play a build they enjoy and have fun. DO NOT confuse this with me saying that all builds should be viable in PvP and trials. This is END GAME content. If you do this with a build that doesnt have good synergy with your class, race, and weapon skill lines then it is your own fault that you arent having fun. This is a competitive game. This isnt a single player TES game where you can run around as a sneaky guy in heavy armor who uses bound weapons and likes to 1 shot people. MMOs dont work that way.
When you go into PvP with a stamina build you will almost always lose an extended fight. Not because you are a bad player but because everyone else is using light armor, bubbles and shields so either you burst them, or they survive and kill you...or you or them run away. This is not a NB problem, this is a stamina build problem. If you could get the stamina back that you do for magicka stamina builds would be much more viable. But they have to be careful. Stamina abilities are much easier to get a lower cost with than magicka on top of magicka abilities costing more generally across the board.
Crying about players who understand how to get the best synergy in their build is not only rude to those players but makes you out to be a fool as well. Complain about stamina build being under powered, they are, complain about some abilities in the NB skill line not working correctly, they aren't, complain about ZOS being slow to react to players feedback in certain areas, they are, BUT FOR THE LOVE OF AKATOSH STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT GOOD PLAYERS MAKING THE BEST BUILD THEY CAN
In closing, just because someones build is better than yours, FOR WHATEVER REASON, does not give you the right to complain about it or ask to bring them down to your level. BRING YOURSELF UP TO THEIR LEVEL
AlienDiplomat wrote: »@Shunravi
This discussion is beyond idiotic. I have no problems with reasonable buff to NBs in certain areas so that they can be a more viable class in areas besides the resto staff + sword and shield. I want everyone to be able to play a build they enjoy and have fun. DO NOT confuse this with me saying that all builds should be viable in PvP and trials. This is END GAME content. If you do this with a build that doesnt have good synergy with your class, race, and weapon skill lines then it is your own fault that you arent having fun. This is a competitive game. This isnt a single player TES game where you can run around as a sneaky guy in heavy armor who uses bound weapons and likes to 1 shot people. MMOs dont work that way.
When you go into PvP with a stamina build you will almost always lose an extended fight. Not because you are a bad player but because everyone else is using light armor, bubbles and shields so either you burst them, or they survive and kill you...or you or them run away. This is not a NB problem, this is a stamina build problem. If you could get the stamina back that you do for magicka stamina builds would be much more viable. But they have to be careful. Stamina abilities are much easier to get a lower cost with than magicka on top of magicka abilities costing more generally across the board.
Crying about players who understand how to get the best synergy in their build is not only rude to those players but makes you out to be a fool as well. Complain about stamina build being under powered, they are, complain about some abilities in the NB skill line not working correctly, they aren't, complain about ZOS being slow to react to players feedback in certain areas, they are, BUT FOR THE LOVE OF AKATOSH STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT GOOD PLAYERS MAKING THE BEST BUILD THEY CAN
In closing, just because someones build is better than yours, FOR WHATEVER REASON, does not give you the right to complain about it or ask to bring them down to your level. BRING YOURSELF UP TO THEIR LEVEL
The point is well taken.
However, to be fair, I don't think anyone here was suggesting being able to sneak around in heavy armor with bound weapons 1-shotting people.
Of course a certain amount of it comes down to skill, both in your command of your character in battle as well as your command of their abilities when theorycrafting your build.
The problem here isn't some hypothetical skill gap. The issue many have with this particular ability occurs when one can assume an equal level of skill and intelligent design of class synergies build for build
The problem with the Sorcerer, if it is really a problem, is what you yourself have pointed out: REGEN. He who sustains, reigns.
Show my ANY other class that, when the going gets tough, can simply bolt out of range and completely regen their resources? Not even the Nightblade can pull that off.
Your other point is somewhat invalidated by the fact that Sorcerers also happen to have some of if not the best burst capabilities in the game. Velocious Curse plus a Streak or two with some Endless Fury and instant proc Crystal Fragments... That's a nasty combination to try and counter when they are already out of range by the time you realize what hit you.
Maybe level 1 to vet 12 was meant to teach you something:
TAB-TARGET FOCUS FIRE THE SORCERER DOWN FIRST.
Merlin13KAGL wrote: »Seriously most over used power. Once you get max magicka regen u can just zip around. Last night a guy named [snip] was zipping in and out like a night blade....also doign 500-600 a hit with his little lighting balls. Thats pretty messed up hes doing what a NB does but way better.
You understand the 'lightning balls' morphed version doesn't do damage, right? They absorb projectiles?
I also think your numbers might be a touch high.
It's a skill. Not an all-powerful one, not even one that can't be countered.
It's also hardly a finisher.
Learn the distance it involves, just like the Sorc's do, and guess what, guess where he's likely to land next?
You can't cast it infinitely, as there are costs involved. Get thumped on in between and its functionality ceases to be as useful as you make it out to be.
Have you ever played a Sorc? Have you ever seen how it functions from that perspective?
Can't take hits like DK's, can't go invisible and stealth attack like NB's...
If you're dying from nothing but BE, there are other issues at play.
NBs can't go invisible and stealth like NBs either. Our skills are broken.
ExiledKhallisi wrote: »People who think sorcs are OP.... Lol. Have you ever played a sorc? I would say about 70% of their class skills are completely useless.
I have 400 more magicka now, that equates to the cost of 1 additional BE w/ the cost increase debuff. And I get about 33 more in combat magicka regen which equates to 1 additional BE about every 25 seconds.Nerfs in previous patched don't mean anything now, when they raised soft caps. BE needs to be nerfed again.
Always the same, delete this, nerf that!
Really, let's remove all skills from the game. Only light and heavy attacks + block.
Sorry, but these threads from people whining about other classes skills are just annoying.
Every class has something, that is bad for another class so in the end, all is balanced.
Heh, and yet another "I don't know how to use block and I don't over exaggerate at all" -player's nerf bolt escape thread turned to "I can't spam my opponent full of DoTs and go invis" thread. Could moderator just close this? We already have like 5 of these.
Always the same, delete this, nerf that!
Really, let's remove all skills from the game. Only light and heavy attacks + block.
Sorry, but these threads from people whining about other classes skills are just annoying.
Every class has something, that is bad for another class so in the end, all is balanced.
Nerfs in previous patched don't mean anything now, when they raised soft caps. BE needs to be nerfed again.
AlienDiplomat wrote: »I'm really sorry to say it, because I truly love my Sorcerer, but BE is ridiculously unfair in PVP.
There are no effective counters (1v1 anyway. Groups can spread out to deny them ultimate and get them in a crossfire). I can spam Crippling Grasp (which also has a heavy DoT) and Mass Hysteria all day when their Immovable is down and they are in range and it does absolutely nothing. They just bolt out of it or roll and bolt.
Two bolts out of range, cheese regen their stats, then bolt in spam spam spam... all day. It is the invincible uber class and impossible to counter and I don't know what ZOS can do about it now that they have let it get this far, but it IS incredibly stupid in PVP.
If you see a Sorcerer and are not a Sorcerer, don't even bother thinking about taking them 1v1. It isn't a fair fight no matter how skilled you are. I should know. I just spent 5 minutes screwing around with one on my resto NB and finally got bored and stopped trying.
There is literally nothing you can do to them.
AlienDiplomat wrote: »NBs can't go invisible and stealth like NBs either. Our skills are broken.
This more than anything else is what has me a little miffed.
I dueled a VERY good Sorc on my resto NB today... Wish I remembered their name because I do respect good play and they were very good. Querv or something like that...
Anyway, they executed everything I mentioned above perfectly. Shield stacking, burst waves, always keeping Immovable up, double bolting away to regen and set up the next wave...
I was able to keep up a similar rotation, though without their 1k damage Hardened Ward which in itself is a little silly, especially since it lasts 20 seconds...
I would Healing Ward, Rapid Regen, stealth. Then try to get my position set up before Immovable, Mass Hysteria, Crippling Grasp, Funnel Health with light attack weaving, Impale at lower health, Soul Assault or Soul Tether for an ultimate, blocking during their waves...
The problem was, cloak kept breaking. It would break when they would take damage from MY Crippling grasp. Apparently they will be fixing this in Update 4. Gods I hope so because the class is broken as it is.
I might have stood a chance otherwise, even though Mass Hysteria NEVER feared them, Crippling Grasp NEVER rooted them, and Soul Tether NEVER stunned them. That is immunity to ALL CC.
Immovable prevents hard CC, BE removes soft CC.
Still, with the ability to cloak and get distance for stealth, combined with intelligent placement, I MIGHT have been able to outlast them. But that is only because I am built for EXTREME regen.
As it is, I would have to play my character MUCH better than they played theirs in order to prevail, and even then, they would probably have just picked an opportune moment to Soul Assault or simply bolt away.
People need to keep in mind that NB is limited to sneak speed when they cloak. Even if cloak actually ever worked for the full 2.9 seconds, you can't cover a third of the distance of a single Sorcerer BE in that time.
Reveal potions, the detection morph for Mage Light, and several gear sets basically negate OUR escape capabilities, since we are moving too slow to get out of that 20 yards extra detection radius.
I can't simply drink a potion to completely negate any other class's archetypal power skill. O.o
Bolt Escape so OP, totally the most unbalanced aspect of the entire game. Sorcs just burst everything down in seconds, nothing can defend against it. Mhm.
You are correct. If people dont see that most of PVP are sorcs...they are just blind...
Sorceror Scrolls Online.
AlienDiplomat wrote: »I'm really sorry to say it, because I truly love my Sorcerer, but BE is ridiculously unfair in PVP.
There are no effective counters (1v1 anyway. Groups can spread out to deny them ultimate and get them in a crossfire). I can spam Crippling Grasp (which also has a heavy DoT) and Mass Hysteria all day when their Immovable is down and they are in range and it does absolutely nothing. They just bolt out of it or roll and bolt.
Two bolts out of range, cheese regen their stats, then bolt in spam spam spam... all day. It is the invincible uber class and impossible to counter and I don't know what ZOS can do about it now that they have let it get this far, but it IS incredibly stupid in PVP.
If you see a Sorcerer and are not a Sorcerer, don't even bother thinking about taking them 1v1. It isn't a fair fight no matter how skilled you are. I should know. I just spent 5 minutes screwing around with one on my resto NB and finally got bored and stopped trying.
There is literally nothing you can do to them.
LOL dude that was my point, I was being sarcastic: I'm the sorc in the vid. And the fight had actually been going on for about 4-5 minutes before the point you see in the vid."Burst everything in seconds..."
That video shows a sorc using all his skills flawlessy and spamming pots for 1:50 without the other guy health budging more than a flinch. That's hardly "bursting everything down in seconds".
So, a guy is nipping at somebody else's health for close to 2 minutes, without bolt he'd get 3 shot if he did not have shields (something which is not exclusive of sorcs).
Il looks like the other PvP games forums: "WHAA clothies won't stand nice and still while I whack at them => NERF!"
AlienDiplomat wrote: »NBs can't go invisible and stealth like NBs either. Our skills are broken.
This more than anything else is what has me a little miffed.
I dueled a VERY good Sorc on my resto NB today... Wish I remembered their name because I do respect good play and they were very good. Querv or something like that...
Anyway, they executed everything I mentioned above perfectly. Shield stacking, burst waves, always keeping Immovable up, double bolting away to regen and set up the next wave...
I was able to keep up a similar rotation, though without their 1k damage Hardened Ward which in itself is a little silly, especially since it lasts 20 seconds...
I would Healing Ward, Rapid Regen, stealth. Then try to get my position set up before Immovable, Mass Hysteria, Crippling Grasp, Funnel Health with light attack weaving, Impale at lower health, Soul Assault or Soul Tether for an ultimate, blocking during their waves...
The problem was, cloak kept breaking. It would break when they would take damage from MY Crippling grasp. Apparently they will be fixing this in Update 4. Gods I hope so because the class is broken as it is.
I might have stood a chance otherwise, even though Mass Hysteria NEVER feared them, Crippling Grasp NEVER rooted them, and Soul Tether NEVER stunned them. That is immunity to ALL CC.
Immovable prevents hard CC, BE removes soft CC.
Still, with the ability to cloak and get distance for stealth, combined with intelligent placement, I MIGHT have been able to outlast them. But that is only because I am built for EXTREME regen.
As it is, I would have to play my character MUCH better than they played theirs in order to prevail, and even then, they would probably have just picked an opportune moment to Soul Assault or simply bolt away.
People need to keep in mind that NB is limited to sneak speed when they cloak. Even if cloak actually ever worked for the full 2.9 seconds, you can't cover a third of the distance of a single Sorcerer BE in that time.
Reveal potions, the detection morph for Mage Light, and several gear sets basically negate OUR escape capabilities, since we are moving too slow to get out of that 20 yards extra detection radius.
I can't simply drink a potion to completely negate any other class's archetypal power skill. O.o
Amen. What has me miffed is that all this is going on and then high-level developers come out and say how they always play as a night blade and what not. I'm not sure they're playing the same game then. Dark cloak is worthless in combat right now. It always breaks for me.
The thing with night blades, as many have said before me, is that all our abilities don't work properly or they have steep costs/negative effects associated with using them, while other classes just get straight up buffs from their abilities and they actually work. If this is the result of the developers' playing as night blades so much, then I wish they would stop playing nightblade and play something else so other classes could get "balanced" in such a way.