xFusionx wrote: »

Endenium might come off sounding pissed, but I think he has every right to feel that frustrated with someone(like Huntler) who doesn't read his post correctly and is immediately dismissive. Plus, my guild has also personally experienced some of what Endenium mentions so I'll give some input and listen for more talking points.

Huntler just comes off sounding like an uninformed player that "thinks" he knows what's going on(which clearly is not the case). We're talking about teams of players here, not 1 vs 1 - so there are many data points that we can pull from

Dleatherus has a nice start to his list, however there is still more

Adding to the list - I run with a guild that always has Immovable & Retreating Maneuvers on our bars, but since 1.3 it's hit or miss whether they work or not. When Immovable is on, we can still be cc'd and the same for Retreating Maneuvers - we can't tell if it's a specific spell that causes it, but more times than not - we end up having to roll out and burn all our stamina after already firing Immovable, so is it an exploit? I don't know, but it seems curious that something can cc us when we're supposed to be immune to those affects. This was not happening prior to 1.3.

Haven't seen the set bonus exploit, but we have rolled up on a few teams running the stacking shield exploits and it's ridiculous - It's one of those experiences that will change how you feel about this game very quickly - you can't make a dent in the opposing teams HP because they have unlimited Magicka based on dmg taken to burn over and over again on these same stacking shield spells. We know of a few guild leaders that out-right unsubbed after meeting these teams on the field over and over again.

Other than that, what makes exploits even more plausible is ZOS's uncanny ability to introduce issues into their own client builds prior to patches. It's indicative of how poorly they function from a development perspective - it's like they've never heard of QA.

I personally have no confidence in ZOS - Have you heard the latest news? Since wearing goblin outfits made you surf on your horse, they are removing goblin outfits from the game. Seriously? They can't fix a seemingly cosmetic issue like that? Their idea of a fix is just removing the outfit - well what happens if another outfit has the same affect? The problem is still there - just another example of how ZOS does their job.

Exactly. Thank you much.

Was I angry? Yea, I mean I guess. I really don't feel that I was acting outrageously or something. I wrote a strongly worded discussion piece. So sue me. Ya know?

Like you said, I think I have the right to be upset given the current conditions in Cyrodil.

Some of those comments, by people like Hunter, simply did not understand what I was talking about. They were not familiar with the exploits or claims that I made. They were immediately dismissive of them - and that is insulting.

If I didn't provide enough proof for their approval, then it was partly because, A - I am restricted by Zenimax from giving a detailed description of how these exploits are accomplished, B - there is only a limited amount of visual proof available to provide.

Rather than insult me and my intelligence and understanding of the game, and instead of attacking my ability to play the game or my character, they could have simply asked for further evidence of these exploits. They could have simply asked for more information.

They really didn't though. Even when they did, it didn't matter anyway.

They had already made up their minds about the situation. After all, according to Hunter, "Like jesus there aren't that many exploits and they are not THAT prevalent..."

Skafsgaard, you are continuously misreading and misunderstanding my original post.

You say "threads like this make it seem like everyone in Cyrodil is a cheater."

No. I never even came close to making that claim.

To clarify, yet again, because I sincerely don't believe you took the time to read my post as carefully as you should have, I said that what is happening here is that abilities are being used in ways that are so far removed from the original intent by the game designers that they have become significantly overpowering. To the point that one is "forced" to use them just to remain competitive. Far from calling all players out for cheating, I actually sympathized with them. But you missed that. I said they were basically "forced" to adopt this sort of game play because there really is not another option. Because of how significantly overpowered these builds and abilities are, players are forced to adopt them and play the same way or get slaughtered. Unfortunately, I can't really blame them. As you said, it is human nature to seek an advantage. It is not a matter of skill. It is not a matter of IQ or strategy. Shield stacking is straight up broken.

I'll quote Dleatherus, who gave a great definition for what, exactly, an exploit is.

"exploit = using intended game mechanics generated by either the player or the game, either directly or in combination with other actions, to create unintended results"

Boom.

Shield stacking, as it is done now, as it was done in the video, is being used in such an over powered way that it yields results that are completely unintended by the developers.

Therefore, this is an exploit that deserves immediate attention from Zenimax.

I'm not concerned about calling other players cheaters. I dont care about that. I dont blame them for doing what they have to. In a way, they are "forced" to do this to maintain competitive edge.

I was asked to provide some proof as confirmation of the significantly overpowered nature of this combination of abilities. So I did. Someone happened to send me the link for this particular video. I dont care about the individual in the video, all I care about is getting Zenimax to fix the inherent flaw in their programming. According to the definition of an "exploit" given to us by Dleatherus, which I believe is a perfectly suitable, sufficient definition, this is more than a simple matter of "imbalance." It is more than a simple issue of skill or strategy. It is broken and is quickly being the standard for PVP.

Is that the standard we want set for our MMo? Or can we get something more out of ESO PVP?

* Side note - the above post does not even touch the issue of the set armor bug. I think that is fundamentally different and I think it is something that cannot be argued against. You can argue the semantics of exploits and imbalance and broken abilities, but I dont think there is any justification for arguing for or using the set armor bug.

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Going by your avatar you play a DK. Are you honestly saying you've never abused the Invasion/Talons bug? Never stacked Fragmented Shield?

When bugs and exploits are so intrinsic to PvP you can't even separate them from normal gameplay, your game has some serious god damn issues.

Actually I'm a NB, the avatar is simply the EP banner, so no, I've never used Invasion/Talons etc... lol...

Krinaman wrote: »

At this point we need to define exploit. By strict definition it's using unintended gameplay. For example animation canceling isn't intended but nobody has any qualms about using it. Silver bolts 1 shotting 100% of the time wasn't intended yet 90% (totally made up number) of the population was spamming nothing but bolts for a week. The number of people using bows these days has gone up considerably now that you can insta-kill people with them. Stacking barriers wasn't intended and yet all the cool kids were doing it. CC locking people isn't intended but lots are doing it. It all really depends on where you draw the line at calling something an exploit.

No, I just use my skill as needed or as called for by my RL. I have done no research into exploits or intend to and as I said, if I have ever used one, it was accidental.

It is very frustrating to have all these exploits but it seems that all sides are using them so it kind of levels the playing field if you ask me.

So at first, OP stated the templar in the video was using armor stacking exploits (which are unknown to me - not saying they don`t exist), then he says he found evidence in the video for those armor stacking exploits but refuses to give hints how/where (timestamp, etc) he discovered the abuse.

Later, OP went back to just accusing the temp in the vid of shield stacking, while labeling that now as an exploit. Not talking about armor stacking anymore.

OP, I`m with you on being frustrated about exploits in the game, but unless you can provide proof for armor set bonus stacking being used widely in Cyrodiil, I feel you are looking for something to blame your frustration on instead of being concerned about a particular exploit/bug.

Shield stacking is known since beta/release used every day by every class, I don`t consider that exploiting and to be honest I don`t think ZOS does either.

Regards

I did run into a group of 3 Blazing Shield Templars and a double exploding familiar Sorcerer lastnight. AD of course.

edit- I just joined the thread, but I think this type of thing is what OP was talking about.

I don't even run annulment - I have my DK's to protect me And my templars generally run Barrier

Arkath wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

I don't even run annulment - I have my DK's to protect me And my templars generally run Barrier

Ah thanks for clarifying. DC has a lot of good players and I get some of you guys confused.

We do all look the same.

yup - i confirm that all DC players look the same

D.

DKs will go up on a hill and use Dragon Leap to get into keeps that aren't taken from their faction.

Sorcs can exploit a broken damage bug that allows them to do 3-4k Lethal Arrows.

NBs can Ambush through keep walls.

I personally do not know any Templar bugs, but I am sure someone wants to complain about Blazing Shield, but there is nothing exploitable with that ability.

That video was painful to watch... such AD bad, much wow.

Templars are currently very strong, and some are a little OP, I almost wanna reroll... but not yet, still having too much fun with my build and really bad zergs .

There are ways to counter [mostly] everything, you just have to find them.

bitaken wrote: »

Dleatherus wrote: »

Arkath wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

I don't even run annulment - I have my DK's to protect me And my templars generally run Barrier

Ah thanks for clarifying. DC has a lot of good players and I get some of you guys confused.

We do all look the same.

yup - i confirm that all DC players look the same

D.

Yeah well...we don't ALL look alike.

you mean

Let me quote directly from ESO developers.

This is from the August 25th patch notes.

"Fixed an issue where some buffs were stacking multiple times, and in some situations could become permanently stuck until you log out, causing you to deal drastically more damage than intended."

This is exactly what I said was happening.

I'm right. You're wrong.

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Also, we need better proof than that video you posted. The player in that even explains what he is doing in that video...

Hey pancake. I was right all along. Here is your proof. "Fixed an issue where some buffs were stacking multiple times, and in some situations could become permanently stuck until you log out, causing you to deal drastically more damage than intended."

That comes directly from today's patch notes.

Boom.

Hey Huntler. There's your proof. Buffs (from set armor and other sources) were permanently stuck until you log out. It caused players to become over powered and deal "drastically more damage than intended."

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

So everyone is busy talking trash on the OP does anyone want to comment on the actual things he is talking about?

No one thought it seemed broken that one templar was tanking Alacrity?

Its ok. I was right all along and they were wrong. Vindication tastes sweet even after all their bitterness.

Odd..i never was hit with that "bug"