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PVP is BROKEN - exploit city!

Endenium
Endenium
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Listen. The Alliance War is a great experience when strategy and tactics are the name of the game. Unfortunately right now, the best strategy in Cyrodil comes down to who can find the most OP exploits first. You all know what I am talking about. The set armor stacking, the shield stacking, the broken abilities... It is all too much. Its at a point that my guild and other guilds are on the verge of moving on to a completely different MMO.

We want to play the game in a fair and competitive way. At the moment, that is literally impossible. The ONLY way to play competitive PVP at the moment is through exploits. Thats it. You are FORCED to work outside the bounds of the intent of the gameplay. We, as a guild and individuals refuse to partake in this. At the same time, we have no intention to walk out onto the fields of Cyrodil just to inevitably get slaughtered by those exploits because we choose not to cheat. So where do you think that puts us? It basically forces us to quit playing the game.

WE, THE PLAYERS, HAVE PUT HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS INTO THIS GAME OVER THE MONTHS SINCE THE LAUNCH. WE DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS!
Edited by Endenium on August 20, 2014 8:05PM
  • Endenium
    Endenium
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    Its much more than sorcs and DKs simply being too powerful. You are obviously not aware of the exploits that Im talking about.

    People are out there stacking armor sets and getting buffs that they have no business getting. So before you start to critique my post, at least get an update on the pvp situation. When you are getting set bonuses for gear that you are NOT even wearing on top of buffs and bonuses for gear that you ARE wearing, thats called an EXPLOIT and it has absolutely nothing to do with one's class or race.
  • Halrloprillalar
    Halrloprillalar
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    Endenium wrote: »
    Its much more than sorcs and DKs simply being too powerful. You are obviously not aware of the exploits that Im talking about.

    People are out there stacking armor sets and getting buffs that they have no business getting. So before you start to critique my post, at least get an update on the pvp situation. When you are getting set bonuses for gear that you are NOT even wearing on top of buffs and bonuses for gear that you ARE wearing, thats called an EXPLOIT and it has absolutely nothing to do with one's class or race.

    Wow... my sig is sarcasm, I guess I'll have to be more obvious.
    Unless you have the exact specific details of this supposed 'exploit', no one is going to take your word for it and you simply sound like a rager.
  • Huntler
    Huntler
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    Endenium wrote: »
    Its much more than sorcs and DKs simply being too powerful. You are obviously not aware of the exploits that Im talking about.

    People are out there stacking armor sets and getting buffs that they have no business getting. So before you start to critique my post, at least get an update on the pvp situation. When you are getting set bonuses for gear that you are NOT even wearing on top of buffs and bonuses for gear that you ARE wearing, thats called an EXPLOIT and it has absolutely nothing to do with one's class or race.

    You have no idea who I am or what I know about this game so before you tell me to "update" myself on the PvP situation I am very well aware of the PvP situation and just because someone disagrees with you (and others like you that shout the sky is falling because they die and think every time they die it must be an exploit). Unless you put your money where your mouth is you are full of it. I am aware of most of the exploits out there (I am not arrogant enough to claim I am aware of them all) and most of them are quite rare/accidental. I also probably PvP a hell of a lot more than you and the amount of times I've run into this exploits is extremely low. So please, if you are going to claim something back it up with actual evidence before you spew this vitriol everywhere.


    edit: and let me edit this in before you inevitably claim I MUST be one of those exploiters, I don't use exploits to gain any advantages in this game


    Edited by Huntler on August 20, 2014 8:22PM
    Huntlar - VR 14 Templar AD
    Alacrity
    Estoy Aqui La Revolución
  • Kewljag_66_ESO
    Kewljag_66_ESO
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    Endenium wrote: »
    Its much more than sorcs and DKs simply being too powerful. You are obviously not aware of the exploits that Im talking about.

    People are out there stacking armor sets and getting buffs that they have no business getting. So before you start to critique my post, at least get an update on the pvp situation. When you are getting set bonuses for gear that you are NOT even wearing on top of buffs and bonuses for gear that you ARE wearing, thats called an EXPLOIT and it has absolutely nothing to do with one's class or race.

    In all fairness to Sorcs and DKs..... I am a Nb and i use to think sorcs and DKs were OPd but after i reached V12 and was actually on equal grounds with them I have found that i actually beat them more often than I lose to them. I think the problem was people expecting to compete agiasnt higher level players. DKs may ahve been over the top but where they are now is perfectly balanced IMO. And I have a MA DW/ Bow NB.

    Now exploits is another issue and if what you say is true that needs to be fixed. BUT even with the current game play as a rule abiding NB i find myself winning 1v1s , small skirmishes, far more often than losing them. i also feel like i have a big impact on seiges. So i would have to disagree with your statement about how bad the game currently is.
  • Ifthir_ESO
    Ifthir_ESO
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    @Huntler are you suggesting exploits aren't running rampant?

    Should we link you some of the threads further down this section?

    I think what pvp'ers would like (I don't pretend to speak for them all) is to have our issues addressed with even a small modicum of urgency.

    The fact is we've seen that PvP isn't a priority here on ESO and the whiterun wolfhound is. Hopefully that will change.
  • Endenium
    Endenium
    ✭✭✭
    Endenium wrote: »
    Its much more than sorcs and DKs simply being too powerful. You are obviously not aware of the exploits that Im talking about.

    People are out there stacking armor sets and getting buffs that they have no business getting. So before you start to critique my post, at least get an update on the pvp situation. When you are getting set bonuses for gear that you are NOT even wearing on top of buffs and bonuses for gear that you ARE wearing, thats called an EXPLOIT and it has absolutely nothing to do with one's class or race.

    Wow... my sig is sarcasm, I guess I'll have to be more obvious.
    Unless you have the exact specific details of this supposed 'exploit', no one is going to take your word for it and you simply sound like a rager.

    yeah I wasnt even talking to you. I was referring to the person who you have quoted at the bottom of your posts. So chill out.

    Im talking about any and all exploits. To be more specific, the doubling of set armor buffs and shield stacking.
  • Huntler
    Huntler
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    Yes I am suggesting exploits aren't running rampant, while they are in the game and some players take advantage of them, they are in the minority. In addition several of these exploits aren't exactly things you can even exploit (for example that guy posting about how he was 1 shooting people with his bow, he has no idea how he was doing it).

    Exploits are bad especially several that are in the game right now because being 1 shot by different abilities and whatnot obviously is lame and not fun for everyone, but the people on this forum VASTLY overexaggerate/overestimate the amount of times these exploits are being used. I find, instead, that people blame something they either don't understand or just when they flat out lose that oh that guy/group MUST be exploiting and its sickening how blatantly wrong and naive these posts are. For christ sake we have a post not a few down from a guy screaming bloody murder about the blazing shield bug without him even understanding how it happens and thus he does not realize how freaking rare it is for the bug to occur in any normal scenario. Instead he complains about something he doesn't understand and since somewhere he heard from some friend of a friend that there might be a bug or exploit here or there, clearly he must have lost to that templar using blazing shield because he was exploiting.
    Huntlar - VR 14 Templar AD
    Alacrity
    Estoy Aqui La Revolución
  • Endenium
    Endenium
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    Huntler wrote: »
    What exploits are being used to such effect that they are changing the dynamic of PvP and that you HAVE to use them to succeed? Are you serious? The blatant naivety of people in this game where when they lose they immediately assume exploiting/cheating is mind boggling. Are there that many bow archers 1 shooting you? Like jesus there aren't that many exploits and they are not THAT prevalent.....

    People are out there stacking armor sets and getting buffs that they have no business getting. So before you start to critique my post, at least get an update on the pvp situation. When you are getting set bonuses for gear that you are NOT even wearing on top of buffs and bonuses for gear that you ARE wearing, thats called an EXPLOIT and it has absolutely nothing to do with one's class or race.

    THOSE ARE INSANELY OVERPOWERED EXPLOITS - they are seen in pvp videos all over youtube now.

    Obviously you're not familiar with what I am talking about.

    Dude, you are straight up WRONG here. You assume that I got tagged in a pvp fight and Im just mad about it. Thats stupid. Thats a stupid assumption and you look foolish for making it. Which is why I told you to go get some updated information to see exactly what it is that I am talking about.

    YES, there ARE crazy exploits at the moment. Most people are painfully aware of them. You are completely oblivious to them though, for whatever reason that Im not even going to attempt to understand.
  • Endenium
    Endenium
    ✭✭✭
    Ifthir_ESO wrote: »
    @Huntler are you suggesting exploits aren't running rampant?

    Should we link you some of the threads further down this section?

    I think what pvp'ers would like (I don't pretend to speak for them all) is to have our issues addressed with even a small modicum of urgency.

    The fact is we've seen that PvP isn't a priority here on ESO and the whiterun wolfhound is. Hopefully that will change.

    Yes, he absolutely was suggesting that there, QUOTE "ARENT THAT MANY EXPLOITS OUT THERE"

    That was his ORIGINAL CLAIM BEFORE HE EDITED HIS POST.

  • Skafsgaard
    Skafsgaard
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    Endenium wrote: »
    Which is why I told you to go get some updated information to see exactly what it is that I am talking about.

    Would you be so kind as to provide a list with specific exploits you're claiming? Im not saying there none, but since you accuse at least back it up - dont challenge other to find the evidence, provide it yourself.
    Edited by Skafsgaard on August 20, 2014 8:53PM
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Get ready for the most intense online PvP experience ever created, with The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited.

    Yes, I am ready...


    Source:
    http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war
  • Dleatherus
    Dleatherus
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    @Huntler‌

    the number of them isn't even an issue

    more to the point is, whether it is 1 or 100, is it/are they of a nature to be detracting enough from the fun of a substantial portion of the player base to have them considering leaving

    the answer is YES

    D.
    Stands in Puddles VR12 NB
    Dleatherus VR10 Templar

    Emperor Farmers, cheaters and exploiters - just like cockroaches in real life, Tamriel will never be rid of them
  • Huntler
    Huntler
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    Buddy, you need to calm down. Throwing out all caps lock posts just takes away from your point and you lose credibility. It does make people think you're just a child throwing a temper tantrum because you died. Once again you did not answer what I asked for which was evidence, I want examples. Actual examples of these exploits you speak of. Until you can give me real ones instead of nondescript exploits that you claim are people stacking sets or shields, etc. I will think you are full of it. In addition I want examples in when they are being used if you're going to claim this all exists and its rampant, you better be able to back it up with at least some reasonable examples/explanations.

    Now do me a favor and please respond in a manner that is a bit less rage filled a bit more like a discussion with valid points.
    Huntlar - VR 14 Templar AD
    Alacrity
    Estoy Aqui La Revolución
  • Huntler
    Huntler
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    Dleatherus wrote: »
    @Huntler‌

    the number of them isn't even an issue

    more to the point is, whether it is 1 or 100, is it/are they of a nature to be detracting enough from the fun of a substantial portion of the player base to have them considering leaving

    the answer is YES

    D.

    You hit on a point I was trying to get across and its the perception of people using exploits that is detracting from peoples' fun. In my opinion, given my in game experience, my knowledge of current exploits, and citing threads like this where people post about things they claim as exploits (and then are subsequently proven wrong), I believe that people overestimate the use of these, the existence of them, and incorrectly assume either that when they lose or when they have heard of an exploit that clearly it must have been used against them.

    Rage filled posts like the OP tend to further support my opinion in this one case, that isn't to say there are not exploits out there that are very annoying. I will say for myself they few time's I've been lethal arrow hit for 6k+, it has been highly annoying and yeah I got a bit upset at the player using it (although I didn't send tells I was upset regardless) I remember that in all my pvp time it has happened only a handful of times and that I don't need to exploit to remain competitive as this post claims. It is ridiculous hyperbole that has no place here and cooler heads should prevail.
    Huntlar - VR 14 Templar AD
    Alacrity
    Estoy Aqui La Revolución
  • Endenium
    Endenium
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    Really? So I guess I'm wrong then.

    Its GREAT that teams can run around with set armor bonuses for armor that they arent even wearing. Thats wonderful, and it makes just a TON of sense. It really makes me want to go out to Cyrodil and play right now so that I can go up against some one with twice as much magicka and health and crit strike damage as myself because I refuse to cheat in the same way.

    You're right. I'm wrong. Thats fine. NO BIG DEAL. Its only fundamentally changed the core gameplay dynamic of the game in a way that was completely unintended by the designers and software creators. It destroys the balance of strategy and skill that was once inherent to combat in ESO.

    You think thats ok. Whatever.

    You are arguing just to argue.

    You think that the only reason I made this discussion was because I got killed in pvp and I cannot distinguish between someone legitimately winning a battle or an exploit.

    Thats nonsense. It really is. Your argument comes down to pure bias and unfounded speculation.
  • Huntler
    Huntler
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    I'm still waiting for these specific armor sets and exploits you keep mentioning.

    edit: and twice as much magicka, health, and crit strike damage eh? Man thats a really good exploit.... Little confusing given the soft cap, you implying players have found a way past soft caps? Or are you just running only 2k health O.o
    Edited by Huntler on August 20, 2014 9:02PM
    Huntlar - VR 14 Templar AD
    Alacrity
    Estoy Aqui La Revolución
  • Endenium
    Endenium
    ✭✭✭
    Skafsgaard wrote: »
    Endenium wrote: »
    Which is why I told you to go get some updated information to see exactly what it is that I am talking about.

    Would you be so kind as to provide a list with specific exploits you're claiming? Im not saying there none, but since you accuse at least back it up - dont challenge other to find the evidence, provide it yourself.



    there are tons of videos like this all over the internet.

    my guild and I have seen it first hand and we have gone to great lengths to find out if this was legitimate gameplay or if, indeed, it was an exploit.

    we found that it was not legitimate gameplay. it was not strategy and skill, not the strategy and skill ESO was intended to be played with anyway. Sure, these people are skilled at finding and using exploits. Sure, they have strategy. Their strategy is to use OP exploits.

    It is armor stacking, set bonus stacking, and shield stacking. It is clearly an exploit.
  • Endenium
    Endenium
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    When I have to sit here and watch a game get destroyed by a bunch of amoral players that are willing to break game mechanics to win, and when I feel that the developers are hyper focused on irrelevant game details rather than really really important, substantial matters, then I reserve the right to be angry. I am not the only one, and this is not just a blind, rage filled, naive post.

    These exploits are ruining the game. They need to be addressed before any BS polishing patches or other such nonsense. This should be priority ONE.

    So I come here to raise my concern to Zenimax on the forums and I try to patiently explain my case, and what do I get? I get that jackass up there accusing me of being a naive internet rage kid that is pissed off simply because he died in pvp and cant tell the difference between that and game exploitation.

    I took the time out of my day to raise these concerns with the hope that I am heard, they are addressed, and we can come together to salvage ESO before it is completely ruined. I am trying to keep the ESO community from cancelling subs and leaving the game. I dont want the community to die out.

    So stop being a jerk, and stop making unfounded accusations, and go find out for yourself if these exploits exist or not. Do that first, instead of shouting down my argument and denying what is patently obvious to the rest of us.
  • Skafsgaard
    Skafsgaard
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    Endenium wrote: »
    Skafsgaard wrote: »
    Endenium wrote: »
    Which is why I told you to go get some updated information to see exactly what it is that I am talking about.

    Would you be so kind as to provide a list with specific exploits you're claiming? Im not saying there none, but since you accuse at least back it up - dont challenge other to find the evidence, provide it yourself.



    there are tons of videos like this all over the internet.

    my guild and I have seen it first hand and we have gone to great lengths to find out if this was legitimate gameplay or if, indeed, it was an exploit.

    we found that it was not legitimate gameplay. it was not strategy and skill, not the strategy and skill ESO was intended to be played with anyway. Sure, these people are skilled at finding and using exploits. Sure, they have strategy. Their strategy is to use OP exploits.

    It is armor stacking, set bonus stacking, and shield stacking. It is clearly an exploit.

    I've seen that video. Posted on these forums as a cadeau to the legendary Mr. Poo - im not convinced he is doing any exploits, point out in which case he is exploiting here.
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Get ready for the most intense online PvP experience ever created, with The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited.

    Yes, I am ready...


    Source:
    http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war
  • Endenium
    Endenium
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    Huntler wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for these specific armor sets and exploits you keep mentioning.

    edit: and twice as much magicka, health, and crit strike damage eh? Man thats a really good exploit.... Little confusing given the soft cap, you implying players have found a way past soft caps? Or are you just running only 2k health O.o

    I speak with thoughtful emphasis and annunciation. Also, because you're like a child, I am forced to repeat ideas to you many many times. Its easier just to spell it out for you in caps, you know, since you are not capable of understanding it any other way.

    You just simply do not have any idea what is happening in Cyrodil. Hopefully it gets hotfixed before you ever even have the chance to see it. If not, then when you finally get it and understand what the Hell Im talking about, then you're going to end up feeling really stupid for denying what so many others know for a fact is happening.

    I keep telling you they are stacking SET ARMOR BONUSES.

    They will put on a couple sets of armor, switch them out and put on new sets of armor, then they end up RETAINING ALL OF THE SET BONUSES.

    I can't make it any more clear than that. It doesnt really matter which sets are being used, now does it? You shouldnt retain any buffs from any set or any item that you are not even using. If you somehow manage to do so, then that is clearly an EXPLOIT, which is what I keep explaining to you.

    Just because you may have never seen it, or dont realize it when you do, or dont understand what it is thats happening, doesnt mean its NOT happening.

    So you dont get it. OK. So youve never seen it. OK.

    Many of us have. And its not Emperorship. Its not some divinely inspired skill or God like ability. It is cheating. It is exploitation of inherent software flaws. Period.
  • Dleatherus
    Dleatherus
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    Huntler wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for these specific armor sets and exploits you keep mentioning.

    edit: and twice as much magicka, health, and crit strike damage eh? Man thats a really good exploit.... Little confusing given the soft cap, you implying players have found a way past soft caps? Or are you just running only 2k health O.o

    you have enough stars next to your name to know that we aren't allowed to give specifics as to HOW the exploit is achieved

    the point is many payers and guilds have left on account of this, many are on the verge of leaving

    short list just off the top of my head of exploits that have taken ages to fix/address. or are still an issue

    caltrops (fixed)
    emperor farming
    AP gain exploits thru oil farm parties etc
    siege weapon limit (addressed)
    dk chain pull to ninja cap keeps (fixed)
    dragon leap behind gates/onto keeps (being addressed)
    accessing area behind closed temple scroll gates (being addressed)
    stacking of armor buffs
    one shot kill from scaling damage bug and hits recorded up to 50,000
    troll camps sabotaging keeps attacks/defenses (being addressed)

    i know there are more - just not gonna bother scratching my 57 year old brain cells to try remember them

    now add on top of that the FPS issue, the crashing issues, the bugged postern doors that if you want to work you need to relog which often means rejoining the queue to get back into thornblade etc

    maybe your tolerance for these things is higher than other folks is all

    D.
    Stands in Puddles VR12 NB
    Dleatherus VR10 Templar

    Emperor Farmers, cheaters and exploiters - just like cockroaches in real life, Tamriel will never be rid of them
  • Endenium
    Endenium
    ✭✭✭
    Dleatherus wrote: »
    Huntler wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for these specific armor sets and exploits you keep mentioning.

    edit: and twice as much magicka, health, and crit strike damage eh? Man thats a really good exploit.... Little confusing given the soft cap, you implying players have found a way past soft caps? Or are you just running only 2k health O.o

    you have enough stars next to your name to know that we aren't allowed to give specifics as to HOW the exploit is achieved

    the point is many payers and guilds have left on account of this, many are on the verge of leaving

    short list just off the top of my head of exploits that have taken ages to fix/address. or are still an issue

    caltrops (fixed)
    emperor farming
    AP gain exploits thru oil farm parties etc
    siege weapon limit (addressed)
    dk chain pull to ninja cap keeps (fixed)
    dragon leap behind gates/onto keeps (being addressed)
    accessing area behind closed temple scroll gates (being addressed)
    stacking of armor buffs
    one shot kill from scaling damage bug and hits recorded up to 50,000
    troll camps sabotaging keeps attacks/defenses (being addressed)

    i know there are more - just not gonna bother scratching my 57 year old brain cells to try remember them

    now add on top of that the FPS issue, the crashing issues, the bugged postern doors that if you want to work you need to relog which often means rejoining the queue to get back into thornblade etc

    maybe your tolerance for these things is higher than other folks is all

    D.

    EXACTLY. Thank you very much. FFS. Not sure what that kids problem was, but it seemed like he was just in straight up DENIAL of some of these issues.

    I was referring to any and all exploits, though the one that stands out in my mind is the armor stacking/ shield stacking. Its a real problem.
    Edited by Endenium on August 20, 2014 9:54PM
  • Skafsgaard
    Skafsgaard
    ✭✭✭✭
    Endenium, calm down a little. All I see is one trying to have a rational discussion about this issue. Im sure exploiting, (real intentional exploiting) is of anyones concern, maybe even especially Huntler. He is just saying there's a lot of hype about, since everyone, fx, thinks every templar is now exploiting with BS. (srry Huntler, I dont want to put words in your mouth so to speak).

    Anyway, so you claim set stacking. ok, fair enough - is it as simple as just changing sets? ive never tried this is an honest question, but im sure its not though. Its possible the opposite effect as what happened when some passive didnt apply after you died once (like some DW passives).

    Anyway, chill out and dont get mad at Huntler, as Im reading he isnt 'ok' with exploits happening and you really need a chill pill and talk about this issue in a rational manner. A little advice, all that rage you've got stored up, please direct it at some poor developer of this game and not your fellow forum members, most if not all im sure are decent and more or less honourable players in THAT regard.
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Get ready for the most intense online PvP experience ever created, with The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited.

    Yes, I am ready...


    Source:
    http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war
  • Ifthir_ESO
    Ifthir_ESO
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    So many threads where @Dleatherus‌ owns noobs with facts and they still argue.

    Just shake your head and move on D, they just don't "get it".
  • Endenium
    Endenium
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    Hey Skat, read my original post. I was quite chill, except that as I said I reserve the right to be angry when something that I love is on the verge of being ruined and when some people are in flat out DENIAL about it.

    Also, Im pretty sure you would get pissed off at someone too if they insulted you and bastardized your argument, out right denied FACTUAL EVENTS, then on top of that insulted your intelligence.

    So howabout this. If you do not like my posts and my comments or my discussions, then simply do not read them?

    No one is forcing you to come to this discussion and read these words.

    So from now on, I wont tell you how to write, and you wont tell me how to write. OK? COOL.
  • Endenium
    Endenium
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    Im chill. I just refuse to feed into delusional thinking. I refuse to condone ignorance.
  • Pancake-Tragedy
    Pancake-Tragedy
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    @‌Endenium You come off as someone who is raging like a whiny child with the content in your posts. No one is taking you seriously.

    Also, we need better proof than that video you posted. The player in that even explains what he is doing in that video...
    Pancake Tragedy - Sorcerer
  • Aoe_Barbecue
    Aoe_Barbecue
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    This does not sound chill:
    you wrote:
    I speak with thoughtful emphasis and annunciation. Also, because you're like a child, I am forced to repeat ideas to you many many times.
    MEGA BEST FRIENDS

    Shape without form, shade without colour,
    Paralysed force, gesture without motion
  • Skafsgaard
    Skafsgaard
    ✭✭✭✭
    Dleatherus wrote: »

    caltrops (fixed)
    emperor farming
    AP gain exploits thru oil farm parties etc
    siege weapon limit (addressed)
    dk chain pull to ninja cap keeps (fixed)
    dragon leap behind gates/onto keeps (being addressed)
    accessing area behind closed temple scroll gates (being addressed)
    stacking of armor buffs
    one shot kill from scaling damage bug and hits recorded up to 50,000
    troll camps sabotaging keeps attacks/defenses (being addressed)
    D.

    emperor farming is not an exploit per se
    AP farming is not an exploit per se
    I thought the lead was fixed, but im not sure
    now the access thing is clearly there and I wont deny it and yes, pls fix it
    No idea about the set stacking bug, see my questions for OP
    damage bug is, as I understand it atm, not something you can choose to do and or easily replicate, it happens and some people will be honourable about and others not (yes, some will exploit it when it happens, my point is they cannot MAKE it happen it just does)
    Camp thing, well, in my mind it is more with griefing which will ALWAYS happen when you put 3+ people together

    I guess my point is, it is healthy to distinguish real intentional abuses/exploits.

    I know greifing is annoying, but it cannot ever be dealt with, we need a race change for that.
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Get ready for the most intense online PvP experience ever created, with The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited.

    Yes, I am ready...


    Source:
    http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war
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