PVP is BROKEN - exploit city!

quakedawg_ESO

This week alone quite a few people have dumped this game. I've usually been on the side of Dev but when they continue to ignore exploits and major issues that continue to ruin PvP, I don't blame players from losing faith and unsubbing. Very sad but there is a pretty cool game under this layer of crap. Although the game is relatively 'new' the pvp decisions (or lack thereof) are mind numbing.

And yes, I'm aware of people stacking armor buffs. I'm sure the same people have exploited other bugs. Really not shocking.

Scyrinal

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

so... can I have your stuff

These kind of posts make the community look bad. Please don't....

xFusionx

Endenium might come off sounding pissed, but I think he has every right to feel that frustrated with someone(like Huntler) who doesn't read his post correctly and is immediately dismissive. Plus, my guild has also personally experienced some of what Endenium mentions so I'll give some input and listen for more talking points.

Huntler just comes off sounding like an uninformed player that "thinks" he knows what's going on(which clearly is not the case). We're talking about teams of players here, not 1 vs 1 - so there are many data points that we can pull from

Dleatherus has a nice start to his list, however there is still more

Adding to the list - I run with a guild that always has Immovable & Retreating Maneuvers on our bars, but since 1.3 it's hit or miss whether they work or not. When Immovable is on, we can still be cc'd and the same for Retreating Maneuvers - we can't tell if it's a specific spell that causes it, but more times than not - we end up having to roll out and burn all our stamina after already firing Immovable, so is it an exploit? I don't know, but it seems curious that something can cc us when we're supposed to be immune to those affects. This was not happening prior to 1.3.

Haven't seen the set bonus exploit, but we have rolled up on a few teams running the stacking shield exploits and it's ridiculous - It's one of those experiences that will change how you feel about this game very quickly - you can't make a dent in the opposing teams HP because they have unlimited Magicka based on dmg taken to burn over and over again on these same stacking shield spells. We know of a few guild leaders that out-right unsubbed after meeting these teams on the field over and over again.

Other than that, what makes exploits even more plausible is ZOS's uncanny ability to introduce issues into their own client builds prior to patches. It's indicative of how poorly they function from a development perspective - it's like they've never heard of QA.

I personally have no confidence in ZOS - Have you heard the latest news? Since wearing goblin outfits made you surf on your horse, they are removing goblin outfits from the game. Seriously? They can't fix a seemingly cosmetic issue like that? Their idea of a fix is just removing the outfit - well what happens if another outfit has the same affect? The problem is still there - just another example of how ZOS does their job.

Rylana

Dleatherus wrote: »

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Dleatherus wrote: »

caltrops (fixed)
emperor farming
AP gain exploits thru oil farm parties etc
siege weapon limit (addressed)
dk chain pull to ninja cap keeps (fixed)
dragon leap behind gates/onto keeps (being addressed)
accessing area behind closed temple scroll gates (being addressed)
stacking of armor buffs
one shot kill from scaling damage bug and hits recorded up to 50,000
troll camps sabotaging keeps attacks/defenses (being addressed)
D.

emperor farming is not an exploit per se
AP farming is not an exploit per se
I thought the lead was fixed, but im not sure
now the access thing is clearly there and I wont deny it and yes, pls fix it
No idea about the set stacking bug, see my questions for OP
damage bug is, as I understand it atm, not something you can choose to do and or easily replicate, it happens and some people will be honourable about and others not (yes, some will exploit it when it happens, my point is they cannot MAKE it happen it just does)
Camp thing, well, in my mind it is more with griefing which will ALWAYS happen when you put 3+ people together

I guess my point is, it is healthy to distinguish real intentional abuses/exploits.

I know griefing is annoying, but it cannot ever be dealt with, we need a race change for that.

[EDIT: i apologize for how long this reply became]

i guess it gets into that age old mmo debate about what is an exploit, what is griefing, and what is plain old-fashiond being out-played

rather than get into a long debate about these semantics, i go with:

exploit = using intended game mechanics generated by either the player or the game, either directly or in combination with other actions, to create unintended results

i have posted in another thread about this, but fully understand that very few people, myself included, have either the time or inclination to be familiar with the content in each and every post

here is a different mmo's stand on when intended game mechanics are used to give an unintended result:





you can ask @Rylana how pleasant of an experience that can be in the current campaigns, though he was mainly griefed against (threats and abuse in zone and tells, players rolling toons in opposing factions to get them to gang up on him etc)

Snipped your post just to respond to the mention of me.

When I topped the leaderboard on EP side on Blackwater Blade, I was sent tells, and flat out told in Zone that if I didnt agree to abdicate immediately following my crown, that no one would help me become emp.

Fortunately a guild came along and crowned me, without me asking, and I was emp.

But then the real abuse started because i was not going to "step down" unless I was deposed. In my belief an emp has the right to hold crown as long as they are able. As it was, I was in a unique circumstance that in a couple days I would be too high in level for the campaign and would level out of emperor anyway.

But I got so many hate tells demanding me to leave the campaign, I even had people intentionally join the other side, make toons with F U Lyzara, attempt to help depose me, and the like.

It was a literal political nightmare I wouldnt wish on anyone. As it was the whole last day or two of my four 1/2 day reign I pretty much ran solo as so many people had shunned me or been openly hostile that I just didnt want to group anymore.

There were a few I was on good terms with, but frankly I joined blue the next day just to go kill some of the jerks that had been up in my face so much.

Ive since abandoned that endeavor because AD needed my help on vet campaigns, but at the end of the day I tried to do my part to stop this emp farming crap, and I am GLAD i dont have to deal with it anymore.

ZOS should seriously consider just dropping the passives, because the minmax crowd will go to great lengths (selfishly) to attack their own allies just for their own ends.

I can always say that I left on my own terms. I could have stayed emp for much longer, I actually intentionally leveled myself up from 45-48 or I probably would still be emp now as I was only defending keeps and not much else.

The bottom line is no one has the right to dictate to someone how they play their game, and getting emp legitimately is hard enough without the constant backstabbing and drama associated with emp farming.

Ifthir_ESO

@Rylana‌ I am sorry to hear it sounds like you were a victim of griefing. Its unfortunate that this the poor sportsmanship we see even in fantasy. All you can do is report them and hope they get some form of punishment.

Morticielle

Huntler wrote: »

What exploits are being used to such effect that they are changing the dynamic of PvP and that you HAVE to use them to succeed? Are you serious? The blatant naivety of people in this game where when they lose they immediately assume exploiting/cheating is mind boggling. Are there that many bow archers 1 shooting you? Like jesus there aren't that many exploits and they are not THAT prevalent.....

I totally agree with this!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Tintinabula

It is getting tiresome. I spend a lot of time theory crafting..trying new armor and mundus stones and armor sets and enchants....and here comes along someone who crits you for ungodly damage..and Im left wondering if Im really that far off the mark?..or what?

I try to make allowances for every move my enemy might take and then theyyre invulnerable?..I game for a lot of hours perday yet emp is really for those in the largest guild..getting the most kills rolling over the most pugs and soloers. Ive yet to see a soloer get emp legitimately.

Then we log in to find out ppl are still terrain glitching..hitting for 54 k...trading emp..Its sad when the negatives start out weighing the positives.

And its really too late to fix. We have former emp groups of Legate and higher running around rolling over huge raids with impulse...there's really no end to it.

Adrastes

i come to pvp section of the forum to be entertained and i never leave unsatisfied. and when i want to enjoy playing i go and PVE, never looking back at my couple experiences in a mess called PVP. do carry on, i will go grab some popcorn.

RSram

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

so... can I have your stuff

Your comment is total awesome!

Nermy

Ignoring all the bitching and name-calling.

I've never knowingly used an exploit and I have to say that I'm pretty sure none of the PvP guilds I play with do, would or even condone anyone using them.

I think you'll find most people want a fair fight, using the skills and attributes they have been given. Sure, there are exploiters out there but as honest and trustworthy players, we need to collect the evidence and report them through the proper channels.

Whinging, ranting and raving about it on the forums will do nothing more than feed the trolls and entertain those who get a laugh from the descent into slagging these sort of discussions inevitably do.

Keep the faith and fight the good fight, whatever faction you represent.

pitdemon_ESO

Nermy wrote: »

Ignoring all the bitching and name-calling.

I've never knowingly used an exploit and I have to say that I'm pretty sure none of the PvP guilds I play with do, would or even condone anyone using them.

I think you'll find most people want a fair fight, using the skills and attributes they have been given. Sure, there are exploiters out there but as honest and trustworthy players, we need to collect the evidence and report them through the proper channels.

Whinging, ranting and raving about it on the forums will do nothing more than feed the trolls and entertain those who get a laugh from the descent into slagging these sort of discussions inevitably do.

Keep the faith and fight the good fight, whatever faction you represent.

Going by your avatar you play a DK. Are you honestly saying you've never abused the Invasion/Talons bug? Never stacked Fragmented Shield?

When bugs and exploits are so intrinsic to PvP you can't even separate them from normal gameplay, your game has some serious god damn issues.

Krinaman

Nermy wrote: »

Ignoring all the bitching and name-calling.

I've never knowingly used an exploit and I have to say that I'm pretty sure none of the PvP guilds I play with do, would or even condone anyone using them.

At this point we need to define exploit. By strict definition it's using unintended gameplay. For example animation canceling isn't intended but nobody has any qualms about using it. Silver bolts 1 shotting 100% of the time wasn't intended yet 90% (totally made up number) of the population was spamming nothing but bolts for a week. The number of people using bows these days has gone up considerably now that you can insta-kill people with them. Stacking barriers wasn't intended and yet all the cool kids were doing it. CC locking people isn't intended but lots are doing it. It all really depends on where you draw the line at calling something an exploit.

quakedawg_ESO

Rylana wrote: »

The bottom line is no one has the right to dictate to someone how they play their game, and getting emp legitimately is hard enough without the constant backstabbing and drama associated with emp farming.

Just like no one has the right to dictate what time of day someone decides to play their game either.

Huntler

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

The bottom line is no one has the right to dictate to someone how they play their game, and getting emp legitimately is hard enough without the constant backstabbing and drama associated with emp farming.

Just like no one has the right to dictate what time of day someone decides to play their game either.

They sure like trying to....

Keron

Krinaman wrote: »

At this point we need to define exploit. By strict definition it's using unintended gameplay. For example animation canceling isn't intended but nobody has any qualms about using it. Silver bolts 1 shotting 100% of the time wasn't intended yet 90% (totally made up number) of the population was spamming nothing but bolts for a week. The number of people using bows these days has gone up considerably now that you can insta-kill people with them. Stacking barriers wasn't intended and yet all the cool kids were doing it. CC locking people isn't intended but lots are doing it. It all really depends on where you draw the line at calling something an exploit.

QFT. All discussion about exploiting disregard the fact that an exploit stops being an exploit as soon as enough people are using it - then it is called "creative use of game mechanics, learn to play".

I can only repeat what I wrote in another topic: He who is free of guilt may throw the first stone.

Report the exploits to devs, stop using them and then complain only about the fact that it takes too long until the devs fix it. Don't argue about who uses which one on the forums.

JLB

Endenium wrote: »

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Endenium wrote: »

Which is why I told you to go get some updated information to see exactly what it is that I am talking about.

Would you be so kind as to provide a list with specific exploits you're claiming? Im not saying there none, but since you accuse at least back it up - dont challenge other to find the evidence, provide it yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnoBxGdhoYw

there are tons of videos like this all over the internet.

my guild and I have seen it first hand and we have gone to great lengths to find out if this was legitimate gameplay or if, indeed, it was an exploit.

we found that it was not legitimate gameplay. it was not strategy and skill, not the strategy and skill ESO was intended to be played with anyway. Sure, these people are skilled at finding and using exploits. Sure, they have strategy. Their strategy is to use OP exploits.

It is armor stacking, set bonus stacking, and shield stacking. It is clearly an exploit.

All I can say about this video is, I don't get it. How he is getting hit so low?
Most the times the incoming hits are between 8dmg and 60dmg... during the whole fight. Crits seems only hit him for 120-300ish. Even when stunned, his incoming damage doesn't even change.
I'm using a very similar build, 5 Heavy 2 Light, all impenetrable, over sofcapped Spell Resist & Armour, and I never ever got such a crazy low incoming damage even standing on top of a Rune Focus.
Normal hits for 10-30? Crits for 100-300?

I also don't get how he can get 0 damage for lapses of 20 seconds. Blinding Flashes last for (max) 7 seconds and has a radius to affect enemies, but he is getting 0 damage even from players who are ranged far away, who are not affected from his Flashes.
Also, it's a 50% miss chance, not a 100%. But he is definitely getting 100%.

Sorry, but I don't get it. Maybe someone do and can explain it to me.

Huntler

JLB wrote: »

Endenium wrote: »

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Endenium wrote: »

Which is why I told you to go get some updated information to see exactly what it is that I am talking about.

Would you be so kind as to provide a list with specific exploits you're claiming? Im not saying there none, but since you accuse at least back it up - dont challenge other to find the evidence, provide it yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnoBxGdhoYw

there are tons of videos like this all over the internet.

my guild and I have seen it first hand and we have gone to great lengths to find out if this was legitimate gameplay or if, indeed, it was an exploit.

we found that it was not legitimate gameplay. it was not strategy and skill, not the strategy and skill ESO was intended to be played with anyway. Sure, these people are skilled at finding and using exploits. Sure, they have strategy. Their strategy is to use OP exploits.

It is armor stacking, set bonus stacking, and shield stacking. It is clearly an exploit.

All I can say about this video is, I don't get it. How he is getting hit so low?
Most the times the incoming hits are between 8dmg and 60dmg... during the whole fight. Crits seems only hit him for 120-300ish. Even when stunned, his incoming damage doesn't even change.
I'm using a very similar build, 5 Heavy 2 Light, all impenetrable, over sofcapped Spell Resist & Armour, and I never ever got such a crazy low incoming damage even standing on top of a Rune Focus.
Normal hits for 10-30? Crits for 100-300?

I also don't get how he can get 0 damage for lapses of 20 seconds. Blinding Flashes last for (max) 7 seconds and has a radius to affect enemies, but he is getting 0 damage even from players who are ranged far away, who are not affected from his Flashes.
Also, it's a 50% miss chance, not a 100%. But he is definitely getting 100%.

Sorry, but I don't get it. Maybe someone do and can explain it to me.

He is running 2 shields which show up as "0" damage when hit. In addition magicka harness reduces spell damage by 50 percent so spells used on him reduce spell damage quite considerably (and since most abilities used in PvP are spells....)

RedTalon

Welcome t o online pvp OP

Maulkin

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Nermy wrote: »

Ignoring all the bitching and name-calling.

I've never knowingly used an exploit and I have to say that I'm pretty sure none of the PvP guilds I play with do, would or even condone anyone using them.

I think you'll find most people want a fair fight, using the skills and attributes they have been given. Sure, there are exploiters out there but as honest and trustworthy players, we need to collect the evidence and report them through the proper channels.

Whinging, ranting and raving about it on the forums will do nothing more than feed the trolls and entertain those who get a laugh from the descent into slagging these sort of discussions inevitably do.

Keep the faith and fight the good fight, whatever faction you represent.

Going by your avatar you play a DK. Are you honestly saying you've never abused the Invasion/Talons bug? Never stacked Fragmented Shield?

When bugs and exploits are so intrinsic to PvP you can't even separate them from normal gameplay, your game has some serious god damn issues.

I know you're not addressing me and I agree to an extent with your last sentence but I feel you are using the "abuse" and exploit word very liberally.

I'm also a S&B DK who uses invasion & talons. I do it because in order to do DMG I have to keep players close so I apply cc effects on them to keep them within my DMG range.I'm using two skills in the game the way they are meant to be used. The majority of times people cc break and get out, some times they can't because of the bug.

Am I exploiting or abusing? Is it my fault basic skills have been bugging out for months now? I hope that bug gets fixed of course, because I'm on the receiving end of it as well. But there's no intention on my part to cause unbreakable cc nor can I control when it happens and when not.

And what is the fragmented shield stacking exploit? I'm only aware of the blazing shield damage stack.

Dan_Fazzyub17_ESO

Shield stacking has got to go. As far as I'm concerned, it's an exploit. You shouldn't be able to throw Harness Magicka anywhere in your shield rotation (Frag Shield/Hardended Ward/Blazing Shield/Barrier) and get the effects of Harness Magicka for the ENTIRE duration of those shields and get endless magicka as a result. You should only gain those effects for the portion of your damage shield (I believe Harness Magicka IV is a 306 Shield in Cyrodiil?) where Harness Magicka is placed. The effect is also augmented if you're wearing the five-piece Sybrane Set and blocking, which everyone should also be doing because for whatever reason you're allowed to cast abilities and spells and block at the same time.

We're seeing shield stacking being nerfed in the forms of Barrier stacking and soon Bone Shield stacking so I hope Zenimax sees the issue with shield stacking and is going to do something about Harness Magicka.

Right now there is no reason to wear anything else other than Light Armor and stacking Harness Magicka with your class specific shields to regen endless magicka since 90% of incoming damage is spell damage. It's killing the AvA meta-game right now to the point where if you and your group are not doing this...you're dumb. There's no room for any kind of growth or actual strategies with how AvA is right now, and that's disappointing. There's a lot of people who have already left and will leave this game if something doesn't get fixed.

There's also an apparent issue of stacking 5 Piece Bonus Armor sets. I've only heard of this, but apparently under certain conditions you can unequip a five piece set but some how retain the sets effect and equip another 5 piece set on top of that to stack with the other. Which is pretty ridiculous.

pitdemon_ESO

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Nermy wrote: »

Ignoring all the bitching and name-calling.

I've never knowingly used an exploit and I have to say that I'm pretty sure none of the PvP guilds I play with do, would or even condone anyone using them.

I think you'll find most people want a fair fight, using the skills and attributes they have been given. Sure, there are exploiters out there but as honest and trustworthy players, we need to collect the evidence and report them through the proper channels.

Whinging, ranting and raving about it on the forums will do nothing more than feed the trolls and entertain those who get a laugh from the descent into slagging these sort of discussions inevitably do.

Keep the faith and fight the good fight, whatever faction you represent.

Going by your avatar you play a DK. Are you honestly saying you've never abused the Invasion/Talons bug? Never stacked Fragmented Shield?

When bugs and exploits are so intrinsic to PvP you can't even separate them from normal gameplay, your game has some serious god damn issues.

I know you're not addressing me and I agree to an extent with your last sentence but I feel you are using the "abuse" and exploit word very liberally.

I'm also a S&B DK who uses invasion & talons. I do it because in order to do DMG I have to keep players close so I apply cc effects on them to keep them within my DMG range.I'm using two skills in the game the way they are meant to be used. The majority of times people cc break and get out, some times they can't because of the bug.

Am I exploiting or abusing? Is it my fault basic skills have been bugging out for months now? I hope that bug gets fixed of course, because I'm on the receiving end of it as well. But there's no intention on my part to cause unbreakable cc nor can I control when it happens and when not.

And what is the fragmented shield stacking exploit? I'm only aware of the blazing shield damage stack.

For the record I don't blame anyone for using bugs to their advantage, especially when you can't really separate exploiting from normal gameplay. That was my point.

It's not your fault for being a DK, or a Templar from using Spear+Jabs, or a NB from using Snipe when they built their character specifically for front-loaded bow damage.

The blame for broken mechanics lies squarely on the shoulders of the developers, plain and simple.

The fragmented shield deal is the same as blazing, keep reapplying until you blow someone away. There's honestly just too many broken abilities to keep up with for most people.


As an aside, I had a 5 minute conversation with a guildy the other night who thought that most of the people he fought were just out of stamina and couldn't or wouldn't CC-break.
Yes, he was a DK /lol

apostate9

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

so... can I have your stuff

I find this reply to be very offensive. It is not appropriate for you to get ALL his stuff when he rage-quits, as the entire community was forced to endure the post, and the subsequent IQ drain it caused. In the interest of fairness and communty-oriented play, I think it is only right we should SPLIT his belongings among all players who were forced to sit through yet another novella of scrub-rage.

This should also apply to his doubtless expansive and elite guild full of people who fail at PVP.

RSram

The video didn't impress me much with what the so-called cheater was doing. I mean a lot of the guys he killed simply charged in and got their butts handed to them.

What the video doesn't show is the PVP experience of the other players, maybe the players he was fighting really sucked. If I saw a guy lasting that long in a swarm of idiots, I would be attacking him from as far away as possible staying out of his kill range.

The player in the video states that he has to choreograph his attacks and defends perfectly or he will die quickly. Yes he may be using exploits, but he is also very knowledgeable and skilled at what he is doing; The other players weren't too smart in my opinion.

Ifthir_ESO

Dan_Fazzyub17_ESO wrote: »

You shouldn't be able to throw Harness Magicka anywhere in your shield rotation (Frag Shield/Hardended Ward/Blazing Shield/Barrier) and get the effects of Harness Magicka for the ENTIRE duration of those shields and get endless magicka as a result.

^ QFT. This was reported in PTS prior to even the first beta.

Dan_Fazzyub17_ESO wrote: »

It's killing the AvA meta-game right now to the point where if you and your group are not doing this...you're dumb. There's no room for any kind of growth or actual strategies with how AvA is right now, and that's disappointing. There's a lot of people who have already left and will leave this game if something doesn't get fixed.

It's even worse with coordinated guilds (you know who you are) all stacking shields + barrier. The average player has no chance against that type of enemy coordination coupled with bad game design.

Huntler

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

It's even worse with coordinated guilds (you know who you are) all stacking shields + barrier. The average player has no chance against that type of enemy coordination coupled with bad game design.

Alright you have made many points about how stacking shields is overpowered and all that is fine and dandy, definitely a valid discussion point. The issue I have with what you just said, however, I feel is obvious. The average player has no chance against that type of enemy coordination coupled with bad game design. Simply put, the average player will NEVER have a chance against an enemy using basically strong coordination (while stacking shields might be broken, doing it is still coordination and if you are an average player that cannot simply follow game mechanics, regardless of whether they are bad, or properly coordinate synergies, skills, etc. with both your own abilities and other players... then those of us who put more effort into understanding the game, coordinating our abilities, etc... will destroy you as the average player, always. Good game design rewards those who coordinate well and optimize abilities, they are the ones who win... not the average player who wants to derp around and beat the "elitists" as some would call these coordinated players.

Regardless of the shield stacking, players who coordinate > players who don't. GG blizzard

Rylana

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

The bottom line is no one has the right to dictate to someone how they play their game, and getting emp legitimately is hard enough without the constant backstabbing and drama associated with emp farming.

Just like no one has the right to dictate what time of day someone decides to play their game either.

How is that relevant to me? I dont tell people when to play.

Endenium

RSram wrote: »

The video didn't impress me much with what the so-called cheater was doing. I mean a lot of the guys he killed simply charged in and got their butts handed to them.

What the video doesn't show is the PVP experience of the other players, maybe the players he was fighting really sucked. If I saw a guy lasting that long in a swarm of idiots, I would be attacking him from as far away as possible staying out of his kill range.

The player in the video states that he has to choreograph his attacks and defends perfectly or he will die quickly. Yes he may be using exploits, but he is also very knowledgeable and skilled at what he is doing; The other players weren't too smart in my opinion.

He was up against players in Alacrity... they werent a bunch of noobs that just got their butts kicked.

Its not just shield stacking thats the problem. It is the set bonus stacking as well. There is no way that anyone can justify recieving buffs for items and armor that they are not even wearing.

On a side note, its nice to see that so many of you have the critical thinking skills necessary to see past a passionate, strongly worded post, to see the core argument behind it.

Some other players who were either in denial about the current state of PVP or were blissfully ignorant of it, treated the thread as an opportunity to critique writing style preferences rather than use it as a chance to discuss the actual issue at hand.

Faith in humanity restored.

Endenium

Dan_Fazzyub17_ESO wrote: »

Shield stacking has got to go. As far as I'm concerned, it's an exploit. You shouldn't be able to throw Harness Magicka anywhere in your shield rotation (Frag Shield/Hardended Ward/Blazing Shield/Barrier) and get the effects of Harness Magicka for the ENTIRE duration of those shields and get endless magicka as a result. You should only gain those effects for the portion of your damage shield (I believe Harness Magicka IV is a 306 Shield in Cyrodiil?) where Harness Magicka is placed. The effect is also augmented if you're wearing the five-piece Sybrane Set and blocking, which everyone should also be doing because for whatever reason you're allowed to cast abilities and spells and block at the same time.

We're seeing shield stacking being nerfed in the forms of Barrier stacking and soon Bone Shield stacking so I hope Zenimax sees the issue with shield stacking and is going to do something about Harness Magicka.

Right now there is no reason to wear anything else other than Light Armor and stacking Harness Magicka with your class specific shields to regen endless magicka since 90% of incoming damage is spell damage. It's killing the AvA meta-game right now to the point where if you and your group are not doing this...you're dumb. There's no room for any kind of growth or actual strategies with how AvA is right now, and that's disappointing. There's a lot of people who have already left and will leave this game if something doesn't get fixed.

There's also an apparent issue of stacking 5 Piece Bonus Armor sets. I've only heard of this, but apparently under certain conditions you can unequip a five piece set but some how retain the sets effect and equip another 5 piece set on top of that to stack with the other. Which is pretty ridiculous.

You got it man. You're a clever one. Nice job.

The shield stacking. If you are at all serious about PVP then you get your damn vamp bite, you put on your best light armor, then you start stacking shields with harness magicka. We are basically forced to play this way if we want to remain competitive in Cyrodil. The scenario I just described is one that is void of player choice, strategy, and skill. Its not just imbalanced... It is utterly lopsided.

The fact that the shield stacking tactic is so outrageously overpowered proves that it is a consequence that was completely unintended by the game designers. I doubt they would ever want something like this to be so one sided in a fight. I don't believe it is something that they planned for. I dont believe it is the way they meant the abilities to be used. Therefore, I think it is safe to assume that it is a mistake in the combat code itself, or a compounding result layers of code that is ending up in really ridiculous ways.

Therefore, in my opinion, using shield stacking with harness magicka in such an overpowered way is equivalent to consciously deciding to exploit or manipulate an error in the game to one's own ends, despite the original intent of the developers. Therefore, in my opinion, it is an exploit and should be fixed immediately.

I dont want to see anyone banned or anything like that. I just want the game to work correctly. As designed. As intended.

I just think that it is getting to the point in this current state of PVP that alternatives to this strategy are futile. Futile. All of the theory crafting discussions Ive read, listened to, or been a part of have come to the conclusion that any strategy to counter this is significantly less powerful and possibly not viable. If this is true, then I cant blame people for adopting this sort of style. I mean, I absolutely refuse to, but I get it if others feel that they have to do what they have to do just to keep up.

Regardless, there is the problem with the set armor buffs erroneously stacking. And this is where my attention is mostly focused. I hate the idea that this has been exploited for as long as it has been without any official word about it from Zen to my knowledge. No one should get the buffs for armor or items that they are not even wearing. Period.

They fixed the weapon bug where people were weapon swapping and basically using 2 different weapons simultaneously. So fix this too.

Hunter up there denied that this was happening and refused to believe it even when I told him what was happening, showed him proof of it, and attempted to raise awareness of it. If they fixed the weapon swap glitch then they should definitely be fixing the armor glitch as well.

To say otherwise is absurd.

Don't be like Hunter, condescending and dismissing these claims without following up with research into them. Go find out for yourselves whether or not it is happening. If you dont realize it yet, when you see it for yourself you will be shocked. No player should be doing this, yet of course some of them will anyway. The purpose of this discussion was not to rage or to condemn or to condone. Im not out to point fingers at anyone specifically. The purpose was to raise awareness and to start a movement to really let Zenimax developers know how we feel about it.

So for the thousandth time, for those in denial, for all those skeptics, for all of you that simply did not realize that this was happening, once again - no one should get buffs for armor or items that they do not have equipped.

* Edited for clarity

Endenium

Morticielle wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

What exploits are being used to such effect that they are changing the dynamic of PvP and that you HAVE to use them to succeed? Are you serious? The blatant naivety of people in this game where when they lose they immediately assume exploiting/cheating is mind boggling. Are there that many bow archers 1 shooting you? Like jesus there aren't that many exploits and they are not THAT prevalent.....

I totally agree with this! OP behaves like a sissy.

Right. I'm just a sissy. I must just suck at the game because combat is just so perfectly balanced. Problems with PVP? What problems with PVP? There aren't THAT many bugs and exploits!

Its totally acceptable that you can receive twice as many buffs from set armor stacking and stack broken shield abilities on top of that, then solo through 31 members of Alacrity for 20 minutes without going down.

Sounds fair. I concede. You win.

Morticielle

I have to admit that I'm actually exploiting while playing TESO!

I'm exploiting by using my brain and while PvPing, which clearly is not intended by Zenimax or else they would not have implemented a system who urges you to use only one or at best two abilities, a system who provides you with the possibility to crowd control an enemy to death, because every CC does damage too, can be spammed and 80% of the time you cannot break the CC.

I'm exploiting by using my brain in a game, which has been reduced to a game of luck: The player who starts spamming CCs on his enemy is most likely to win the fight.

The problem with this game is that the strange concepts Zenimax has developed like bars with only 5 slots, CCs who do damage too, a strange system of CCs etc. have forced players to run around in zerg balls spamming aoes and to spam CCs.