GreySix wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Hopefully today's addition of an ignore feature on the forums will reduce abuse of the reaction flags.

Sweet!

My ignore list is hungry, so it's time for feeding.

My list will be full in the next five minutes or so. I've been keeping my own list in hopes of this feature.

Unfortunately, twelve is not enough...

As to the original request, there is a lot of potential baggage with a dislike button and while it could add some value in certain areas like reducing unnecessary posts, it is more likely to compound the issues of ganging up on ideas which you don't want to discourage.

However, I would love to see a Wink Wink feature. Something along the lines of that is cute, but didn't make me LOL. Agree is a reinforcement of the argument as is Insightful. Awesome could be really entertaining or really strong agreement and LOL is somewhat ambiguous as to whether you find it absurd or funny. But a would be nice to say, I understand or that made me grin. It also benefits from being positive.

AlexDougherty wrote: »

And your Galileo reference is flawed, Galileo noticed the evidence disagreed with the Church, the Church was basically arguing with the universe, and thus with God (since he made it).

Galileo was arguing for a Copernicus model of the solar system instead of the church's Ptolemaic model. The church held a hearing and demanded he no longer teach or defend such a model as it was heresy. They were indeed arguing against scientific fact, as religion frequently will, and specifically against Galileo. You are trying to split hairs with your statement but it doesn't fly. The church didn't relent their prohibition for another 120-130 years.

But I do concur that a Disagree button would end up primarily as a negative factor.

dracobains_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

And your Galileo reference is flawed, Galileo noticed the evidence disagreed with the Church, the Church was basically arguing with the universe, and thus with God (since he made it).

Galileo was arguing for a Copernicus model of the solar system instead of the church's Ptolemaic model. The church held a hearing and demanded he no longer teach or defend such a model as it was heresy. They were indeed arguing against scientific fact, as religion frequently will, and specifically against Galileo. You are trying to split hairs with your statement but it doesn't fly. The church didn't relent their prohibition for another 120-130 years.

But I do concur that a Disagree button would end up primarily as a negative factor.

Out of curiosity, what was the Roman Catholic Church's biblical foundation for such an argument?

AlexDougherty wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

dracobains_ESO wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

And your Galileo reference is flawed, Galileo noticed the evidence disagreed with the Church, the Church was basically arguing with the universe, and thus with God (since he made it).

Galileo was arguing for a Copernicus model of the solar system instead of the church's Ptolemaic model. The church held a hearing and demanded he no longer teach or defend such a model as it was heresy. They were indeed arguing against scientific fact, as religion frequently will, and specifically against Galileo. You are trying to split hairs with your statement but it doesn't fly. The church didn't relent their prohibition for another 120-130 years.

But I do concur that a Disagree button would end up primarily as a negative factor.

Out of curiosity, what was the Roman Catholic Church's biblical foundation for such an argument?

It derived from the Roman belief the Rome was the centre of the creation, and the mediterrannean was the centre of the earth (literal translation there), and the Roman Catholic Church picked up this belief and built a mythology around it.

Interesting, so no biblical foundation at all. It's little wonder so many Christians broke off from the RC church.

Actually I am amazed the thread is still going, hehe. It has become an eveready battery.... Heck add all the buttons back, what the hay... just don't ding my profile again for wracking up a bunch of "uncool" buttons or whatever

GnatB wrote: »

I got it, instead of clicking disagree button, 1 person can do a post saying "I disagree ... ", then the rest of us can just click the "agree" button on him. Effect is the same, and people with way too thin skin don't have to worry about their precious "disagree" count.

Here, I'll start the ball rolling. (and this way I get "agree" counts for all the disagrees...)

Disagree!

SirAndy wrote: »

GnatB wrote: »

Here, I'll start the ball rolling. (and this way I get "agree" counts for all the disagrees...)

Too late, the ball is already rolling (see my post 4 posts up) ...
;-)

Who do you think agreed it?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

dracobains_ESO wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

A dislike button will just single certain people on this forum out, certain people that wont be named will get 1k dislike achievement and let me tell you.....often times, the ones everyone in a community rallies against are the most troubled irl. I dont want to see the "unlikables" further abused by the masses through a dislike. Its done enough with words already.

While I understand your point, people can be cruel and viscous especially on the other end of a PC monitor, but there is always going to be some level of social accountability. Shunning and alienation for individuals who stray too far from social norms is a normal process that occurs everyday. A kind person will try and articulate why the statement made here is improper and a callous person will merely ridicule. Society is like this all the time whether it is digital or not.

People should always be discouraged from discord whether it is individuals making trolling statement or those being overly critical. The problem with criticism is they tend to create fan clubs who share similar beliefs and they gang up on people and kill constructive arguments. This impedes any sort of meaningful dialogue.

You also have to realize some people are merely frustrated and angry because of some performance issue or buggy mechanic. When you have the struggles that Zenimax has endured you simply must have a thick skin about it. It isn't personal even if it at times sounds personal. The aggravation they feel will subside and the post will drift into obscurity but at least Zenimax realizes that players are feeling frustration about X. They don't need a platoon of fanboys defending them.

I am drifting... if someone has some psychological impairment or "troubled", I am not sure treating them with kid gloves is doing them any great service and it would be impossible to know the mental well being of anyone through this medium. There is nothing wrong with discouraging poor behavior. It would certainly be nice if it were always constructive, but try being constructive to someone with a Behavioral disorder. Much easier to have an ignore feature and just alienate them out of the dialogue.

It has nothing to do with treating people with kid gloves and a whole lot to do with bullying people. The mob mentality of any forum can be a real problem and when you have someone that doesn't fit in, they are going to feel it. A disagree button just facilitates that feeling of separation.

As someone who was bullied throughout school to a very extreme degree and who would be in the category of "troubled," while I don't feel I would be adversely affected by a disagree button, at least not anymore than having 20 people agree with my opponent, which I can handle fine, I can say that I completely understand the place some people are in that would be negatively impacted by being ganged up on and bullied using passive aggressive buttons like that.

Plenty of people kill themselves over cyber-bullying, and while I'm not sure -just- the disagree button would lead someone to suicide, it could become part of a list of things compounding the depression and isolation of an individual that might lead them along that path.

Okay, as another person who was bullied growing up, I say people who feel they are “negatively affected” by someone they don’t know pressing a button on the internet need to get over themselves, suck it up, and/or call their mommy and cry to her about it. Being bullied taught me three things:

How to stand up for myself, To grow a thicker skin, and What is and is not socially acceptable behavior.

The part of me that isn’t a sociopath really, really wants to say that I feel bad for people who kill themselves over cyber-bullying, but the fact is, the human race doesn’t need those genes in the pool. It sounds mean in a time when the world is full of unwarranted affirmations, but we just don’t need the weak, they don’t make us better as a species. I got actually bullied as a kid, not some random anonymous person across the world saying they don’t like me, actual people bigger and stronger than me beating me up for no more reason than my being a nerd. So yeah, when I hear somebody whining about having their feelings hurt by an internet forum or its users, my response is, get out of my gene pool and no, I’m not going to do a dang thing to accommodate your feelings. Not even if it’s just supporting the exclusion of a stupid, inconsequential button.
Not only do I support bringing the disagree button back, (not that I think it’d ever happen), but I’m still waiting for my balefire button…

I agree with Nobody

Elencha wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

dracobains_ESO wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

A dislike button will just single certain people on this forum out, certain people that wont be named will get 1k dislike achievement and let me tell you.....often times, the ones everyone in a community rallies against are the most troubled irl. I dont want to see the "unlikables" further abused by the masses through a dislike. Its done enough with words already.

While I understand your point, people can be cruel and viscous especially on the other end of a PC monitor, but there is always going to be some level of social accountability. Shunning and alienation for individuals who stray too far from social norms is a normal process that occurs everyday. A kind person will try and articulate why the statement made here is improper and a callous person will merely ridicule. Society is like this all the time whether it is digital or not.

People should always be discouraged from discord whether it is individuals making trolling statement or those being overly critical. The problem with criticism is they tend to create fan clubs who share similar beliefs and they gang up on people and kill constructive arguments. This impedes any sort of meaningful dialogue.

You also have to realize some people are merely frustrated and angry because of some performance issue or buggy mechanic. When you have the struggles that Zenimax has endured you simply must have a thick skin about it. It isn't personal even if it at times sounds personal. The aggravation they feel will subside and the post will drift into obscurity but at least Zenimax realizes that players are feeling frustration about X. They don't need a platoon of fanboys defending them.

I am drifting... if someone has some psychological impairment or "troubled", I am not sure treating them with kid gloves is doing them any great service and it would be impossible to know the mental well being of anyone through this medium. There is nothing wrong with discouraging poor behavior. It would certainly be nice if it were always constructive, but try being constructive to someone with a Behavioral disorder. Much easier to have an ignore feature and just alienate them out of the dialogue.

It has nothing to do with treating people with kid gloves and a whole lot to do with bullying people. The mob mentality of any forum can be a real problem and when you have someone that doesn't fit in, they are going to feel it. A disagree button just facilitates that feeling of separation.

As someone who was bullied throughout school to a very extreme degree and who would be in the category of "troubled," while I don't feel I would be adversely affected by a disagree button, at least not anymore than having 20 people agree with my opponent, which I can handle fine, I can say that I completely understand the place some people are in that would be negatively impacted by being ganged up on and bullied using passive aggressive buttons like that.

Plenty of people kill themselves over cyber-bullying, and while I'm not sure -just- the disagree button would lead someone to suicide, it could become part of a list of things compounding the depression and isolation of an individual that might lead them along that path.

Okay, as another person who was bullied growing up, I say people who feel they are “negatively affected” by someone they don’t know pressing a button on the internet need to get over themselves, suck it up, and/or call their mommy and cry to her about it. Being bullied taught me three things:

How to stand up for myself, To grow a thicker skin, and What is and is not socially acceptable behavior.

The part of me that isn’t a sociopath really, really wants to say that I feel bad for people who kill themselves over cyber-bullying, but the fact is, the human race doesn’t need those genes in the pool. It sounds mean in a time when the world is full of unwarranted affirmations, but we just don’t need the weak, they don’t make us better as a species. I got actually bullied as a kid, not some random anonymous person across the world saying they don’t like me, actual people bigger and stronger than me beating me up for no more reason than my being a nerd. So yeah, when I hear somebody whining about having their feelings hurt by an internet forum or its users, my response is, get out of my gene pool and no, I’m not going to do a dang thing to accommodate your feelings. Not even if it’s just supporting the exclusion of a stupid, inconsequential button.
Not only do I support bringing the disagree button back, (not that I think it’d ever happen), but I’m still waiting for my balefire button…

Wow... That's an incredibly ignorant and cold thing to say. It's certainly something I didn't think I'd hear from another civilized human being.

I don't think you experienced bullying on the level other people might have. And I doubt you've experienced cyber bullying. I don't think I should have to explain exactly how awful it is, though. It certainly has nothing to do with having a thicker skin. Perhaps you were able to defend yourself and it gave you closure. Personally, that wasn't an option for me because it wasn't about getting beat up after school. It was about being unable to escape constant demoralization and abuse that I definitely feel adversely affected me and had a permanent impact. I saw a movie recently called "the mind of a rampage killer" which talked about studies of bullied children and how they were more likely to experience higher stress and depression on average. I know that there were many times that I contemplated suicide (and later in life I did attempt it, though I hesitate to share that, I'm sure it will be used against me later,) and the only reason I didn't go through with it was simply because I knew they wouldn't care. They'd probably laugh about it.

With the internet, suddenly, all that bullying comes home with you. You don't have a way to get away from it. If I had had to deal with that, I would have definitely killed myself, and I don't really feel like that makes me unfit for reproduction. It's very normal and human. Eventually, all that abuse will wear you down. It didn't do it to you, and that's great, but that doesn't mean everyone else should have to suck it up. You have no idea what other people are going through.

You sort of drifted into eugenics there. I don't feel like we need to exclude the "weak" from the gene pool. I mean, I'm expecting you to promote sterilizing the mentally infirm after that statement.

This isn't about creating a master race, it's about making sure we don't cause undue suffering on others.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

With the internet, suddenly, all that bullying comes home with you. You don't have a way to get away from it.

Umm actually you turn off your computer, leave the forums, stop talking in zone chat and a hundred other very simple things to prevent this from happening.

People suffering from depression don't participate in the activities which exacerbate their illness they avoid them. That would be like a sober alcoholic hanging out in a bar for entertainment.

Forums are a place to debate the well being of the game and at times disseminate information. They can at times grow rather passionate. If you hamstring them to accommodate the lowest common denominator then a great deal of dialogue is lost. While I have a great deal of empathy for your struggles, you simply should not be posting on here if the potential ridicule would increase your symptoms. Open dialogue is important even if it is sometimes presented in a caustic manner.

The moderators on here do a pretty good job keeping these forums free from personal attacks and if anything beyond that troubles you simply read and don't post. Nobody is forcing you to reply to statements here nor does participation make for a better gaming experience. You can make suggestions in game and get your information to devs in that manner. While I certainly desire a more civil community, I would never mandate this kid glove philosophy. And yes that is what you are asking for when you make statements about not making people feeling a sense of separation because too many people disagree with them.

Wow this thread has really gotten off topic.