[SUGGESTION] Account wide achievements change.

The_Sadist · August 2014

For

siledre wrote: »

for those who belittle the opposite opinion are only invalidating their own, the OP shows bias toward the poll by wanting an explanation as to why not but not for the why's. I choose not to explain my reasoning because of the bias of this poll.

Obviously I'm biased for, I made that abundantly clear in the original first post. I simply wanted against voters to state their reasons / arguments so we can have a good old debate, simply agreeing with those who say yes doesn't really encourage such behaviour. Lastly, notice not everyone who is against the concept wrote a reason why and that's okay. Saying someone's reasoning is a bit flawed and explaining why is hardly invalidating. I openly admit to being snarky and sarcastic at times but this is my second thread about this very topic and often people read the post, post their opinion and not realise what they've said has been covered and debated 4 times already.

Have a good one.

DenverRalphy · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

siledre wrote: »

for those who belittle the opposite opinion are only invalidating their own, the OP shows bias toward the poll by wanting an explanation as to why not but not for the why's. I choose not to explain my reasoning because of the bias of this poll.

Or you could have just voted without the commentary. The option didn't require a response.

GnatB · August 2014

For

Most of the "statistical" achievements (crafting, deconstructing, collecting, killing x named, healing, blocking, damaging, etc.) should be account wide. Not just in that obtaining it for one should obtain it for all, but in that all the characters on the account should contribute towards achieving it. (collecting in particular, since as far as I remember the items aren't character bound. Sort of silly that I would have to trade the items to whichever character I'm trying to get the achievement on first for the dye).

Exploration/quest/specific goal ones, (i.e. kill world boss "X", find all the scenic points in "Y", finish questline "Z") should be character specific.

All that said, as my signature makes apparent, I don't think there even SHOULD be achievements, and if there are at the very most there should only be titles associated with them.

Super_Sonico · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

I'm against this because I want to be able to track individual progress of all my characters. Achievements help me do that. Also, it affects things like titles and such. I don't want my AD characters to have the ability to have the DC Hero title when they're at level 3.

I kind of don't even like having dyes unlocked based on one character. I wish those were limited to each character.

Tapio75 · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

I play as a character, i achieve things as a character. When i am playing, i am not an account, i am character living in Tamriel. My characters are all individuals.

Dye's? Yes they can all be account wide. They are just colors to use to get our equipment look the way we want to look. The less prestige in dyes, the more they are used for their true purpose, characters "atmosphere".

siledre · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

DenverRalphy wrote: »

siledre wrote: »

for those who belittle the opposite opinion are only invalidating their own, the OP shows bias toward the poll by wanting an explanation as to why not but not for the why's. I choose not to explain my reasoning because of the bias of this poll.

Or you could have just voted without the commentary. The option didn't require a response.

yea but I was bored and I got 1 lol so I'm satisfied

The_Sadist · August 2014

For

Super_Sonico wrote: »

I'm against this because I want to be able to track individual progress of all my characters. Achievements help me do that. Also, it affects things like titles and such. I don't want my AD characters to have the ability to have the DC Hero title when they're at level 3.

I kind of don't even like having dyes unlocked based on one character. I wish those were limited to each character.

Who is to say there won't be a way to track individual progress on each character alongside a shared achievement system? The two aren't mutually exclusive. While I agree it's a handy feature, I think there's ways to incorporate a similar tracking system. I'm inclined to disagree with the shared title thing but a few people have similar concerns as yourself, something akin to immersion breaking.

You can limit them yourself if you wanted, there's really no excuse!

Tapio75 wrote: »

I play as a character, i achieve things as a character. When i am playing, i am not an account, i am character living in Tamriel. My characters are all individuals.

Dye's? Yes they can all be account wide. They are just colors to use to get our equipment look the way we want to look. The less prestige in dyes, the more they are used for their true purpose, characters "atmosphere".

And that's where you, a roleplayer, and I, a MMO player, differ. I treat my characters as individuals but not to such an extreme degree. My alts are alts and while I enjoy them I see little need to feel forced to repeat achievements.

Well that's where your logic gets flawed, why are you for an account wide dye system when each of your characters are individuals? That goes against your own argument. They are in themselves achievements, are they not? While you claim it increases your character's "atmosphere" they are still linked to achievements, like titles.

siledre wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

siledre wrote: »

for those who belittle the opposite opinion are only invalidating their own, the OP shows bias toward the poll by wanting an explanation as to why not but not for the why's. I choose not to explain my reasoning because of the bias of this poll.

Or you could have just voted without the commentary. The option didn't require a response.

yea but I was bored and I got 1 lol so I'm satisfied

Let the trolls troll I suppose.

Azraeel · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

If it is dyes you guys are after, then I'm for making them account wide, however, no need for the rest of the achievements to be account wide. I'm not an altoholic to really care. I usually stick with one or two characters max.

The_Sadist · August 2014

For

Azraeel wrote: »

If it is dyes you guys are after, then I'm for making them account wide, however, no need for the rest of the achievements to be account wide. I'm not an altoholic to really care. I usually stick with one or two characters max.

Dyes are currently account wide which is half the problem I think. If dyes weren't account wide and you couldn't dye your alt's gear there would be more people in favour of a shared achievement system. Lastly, if you don't care why vote no?

Targolak · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

I heavily dislike the idea of account-wide achievements. The system was present in WoW, and even there, it was hardly a fun addition - sure, you could have access to (most of) the achievement rewards on all characters, but it wasn't fun to try and trace which achievements you'd done on which toon and then complete the achies you hadn't done on that specific alt. It felt more like doing something again than doing something new - with emphasis on "felt".

Not to forget, it made all the toons "the same" achievement-wise, with no pros or cons for each individual toon. You had done all that, and leeched on the achievements of your main or another alt. This made "fresh starts" frustrating, as you already had achieved all the other stuff on your previous characters. You'd just be leveling up an alt with no "character" of its own, with all the previously-acquired achievements and thus lacking the feel of a new character altogether - past the excessive lack of abilities and that big, flashing symbol of a level up every now and then, of course.

Mind, though, that I heavily dislike the idea. I'm not uber opposed to it. I don't like it, I do get why others want it, but I don't agree with it. If it gets implemented, I'll just be sad and disappointed, no complaints about game-breaking stuff or slamming the door behind me on my way to other games.

Edit:

The_Sadist wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

Dye's? Yes they can all be account wide. They are just colors to use to get our equipment look the way we want to look. The less prestige in dyes, the more they are used for their true purpose, characters "atmosphere".

Well that's where your logic gets flawed, why are you for an account wide dye system when each of your characters are individuals? That goes against your own argument. They are in themselves achievements, are they not? While you claim it increases your character's "atmosphere" they are still linked to achievements, like titles.

The difference is, you could trade dyed gear across your characters even if they weren't account-wide. Having them account-wide is just a minor convenience feature, nothing more or less - but I don't see people trading titles across their alts, or other achievement rewards.

Having stuff you can naturally transfer from toon to another excuses account-wide treatment. But not when it's the root achievement or its character-specific reward in question.

Azraeel · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

The_Sadist wrote: »

Azraeel wrote: »

If it is dyes you guys are after, then I'm for making them account wide, however, no need for the rest of the achievements to be account wide. I'm not an altoholic to really care. I usually stick with one or two characters max.

Dyes are currently account wide which is half the problem I think. If dyes weren't account wide and you couldn't dye your alt's gear there would be more people in favour of a shared achievement system. Lastly, if you don't care why vote no?

Well you see, it is a bit complicated. One of my suggestions were to enable us to move characters from one megaserver to another. I believe it is easier to be done while having independent achievements instead of them having to merge the whole thing together.

seaef · August 2014

For

In principle I'm against it, until I actually have to do them. so I'm voting 'for'. ;-)

Some of them are just annoying and doing them a second or third time is not fun. However, the completionist in me feels compelled to slog through them again.

My experience with Molag Bal is a great example. I found him really annoying and after repeated attempts to kill him I just gave up and started a new character. Occasionally I would go try to beat him again. Once day I managed to do it, but I have no idea how so it didn't feel like an accomplishment. It felt like a hurdle I had to overcome.

I feel the same way about some achievements.

madangrypally · August 2014

For

As a player who plays each class nearly equally I am for the account wide achievements. I posted this on the first page but ill explain what I would want to see in more details.

1: Achievements are account bound.
2: Achievements that reward a title can only be used on a character who have completed said achievements. IE: Covenant Hero
3: Add in class particle achievements for Templar, Dragon Knight, Nightblade, and Sorcerer. This will make more players create alts to complete them.

Most who are against this are those who do not play multiple characters. What do these same people think about the Champion system being account bound? Does that drive them mad and will it drive them away from ESO? How about dyes being account bound. They are basically the same as you are advertising you completed some achievements on alts that were not completed on that alt by having certain gear dyed.

The_Sadist · August 2014

For

Targolak wrote: »

I heavily dislike the idea of account-wide achievements. The system was present in WoW, and even there, it was hardly a fun addition - sure, you could have access to (most of) the achievement rewards on all characters, but it wasn't fun to try and trace which achievements you'd done on which toon and then complete the achies you hadn't done on that specific alt. It felt more like doing something again than doing something new - with emphasis on "felt".

As explored and discussed many times during this thread having the option to 'see' what skyshards, dungeons, delves, dolmens and all that jazz. I can't say completing an achievement a second time felt any different compared with doing it the first time. I can understand the logic behind it though, I suppose.

Targolak wrote: »

Not to forget, it made all the toons "the same" achievement-wise, with no pros or cons for each individual toon. You had done all that, and leeched on the achievements of your main or another alt. This made "fresh starts" frustrating, as you already had achieved all the other stuff on your previous characters. You'd just be leveling up an alt with no "character" of its own, with all the previously-acquired achievements and thus lacking the feel of a new character altogether - past the excessive lack of abilities and that big, flashing symbol of a level up every now and then, of course.

There's only the titles tied to the achievement which would make an Alt 'unique' but ultimately I don't think that's enough to justify not having a system like the one being discussed being implemented. I've leveled quite a few alts in GW2 which had race specific / class specific / character specific achievements alongside general account wide ones.

Targolak wrote: »

Mind, though, that I heavily dislike the idea. I'm not uber opposed to it. I don't like it, I do get why others want it, but I don't agree with it. If it gets implemented, I'll just be sad and disappointed, no complaints about game-breaking stuff or slamming the door behind me on my way to other games.

Fair enough, it's good to have a level headed argument at any rate. I'd love for it to happen if only to prevent hundreds of hours, if not more, of pointless filler grind. The more content that's released the more achievements there will be and the more frustrated I'll become

.

Targolak wrote: »

The difference is, you could trade dyed gear across your characters even if they weren't account-wide. Having them account-wide is just a minor convenience feature, nothing more or less - but I don't see people trading titles across their alts, or other achievement rewards.

The solution would be make the dye automatically disappear / reset to normal when it enters a bank or something. It would promote achievement completion on alts and would also add some fire to my argument. Ultimately I'd like for everything to be shared outside of a few things.. but eh, realism.

Targolak wrote: »

Having stuff you can naturally transfer from toon to another excuses account-wide treatment. But not when it's the root achievement or its character-specific reward in question.

Fair enough but it's also an argument for those who reject the notion of an account side system due to their love of immersion. You can complete achievements a second time on an alt before using the attached title or dye if it makes the roleplayer happy.

Azraeel wrote: »

Well you see, it is a bit complicated. One of my suggestions were to enable us to move characters from one megaserver to another. I believe it is easier to be done while having independent achievements instead of them having to merge the whole thing together.

I think it's probably unrealistic at this point in time to assume you'll be able to shift characters between mega servers given that there's two of them and re-rolling before you achieve anything is always an option. But fair enough, I can understand your point.

AlnilamE · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

My characters are individuals and I think they should earn their achievements separately.
Yes, it's a pain for some of them, and my main is the one who will work on getting specific achievements, but when I'm running through a Zone with my third character, I want him/her to get an achievemnt for getting all skyshards, or finding all locales, or beating a dungeon just like his/her big brothers and sisters did.

Selique · August 2014

Aren't achievements already shared? I mean, I have dyes unlocked on all my toons where I only met the achievement on one... Isn't that basically the same thing? What other purpose do these achievements serve other than dyes?

Cahuani · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

I am against it because I think Zenimax is pushing for player commitment to one, or at least only a few toons. Thats why there is no need for alts to do all of the crafting, only one toon can hold a pet at a time, etc. I don't see why someone would want a lot of alts anyway, seeing as how one toon can explore all the factions.

madangrypally · August 2014

For

Cahuani wrote: »

I am against it because I think Zenimax is pushing for player commitment to one, or at least only a few toons. Thats why there is no need for alts to do all of the crafting, only one toon can hold a pet at a time, etc. I don't see why someone would want a lot of alts anyway, seeing as how one toon can explore all the factions.

You do realize that they have announced the Champion system to be account wide and not character based right? Meaning if I earn champion points on one character I can spend them on another.

Banks = Account Wide
Dyes = Account Wide
Champion System = Account Wide
Bound Gear = Account Wide

This game is more about account wide then character based. When housing is added I fully expect them to be account wide also.

As to some achievements like sky shards, they can make those character based. Same with completing Delves, Dungeons, and Dolmens. The based achievements.

Make the specialty achievements account bound. IE: Killing all dolmen generals, killing a Dungeon boss while leaving up all adds, killing x mob 500 times, opening 1000 lockboxes, picking 10,000 flowers, earning 10,000,000 gold, etc.

The_Sadist · August 2014

For

AlnilamE wrote: »

My characters are individuals and I think they should earn their achievements separately.
Yes, it's a pain for some of them, and my main is the one who will work on getting specific achievements, but when I'm running through a Zone with my third character, I want him/her to get an achievemnt for getting all skyshards, or finding all locales, or beating a dungeon just like his/her big brothers and sisters did.

And that's okay, but myself and a great deal of other players treat ESO like an MMO and not a roleplaying experience.
Like I said time and time again, character specific achievements should be a thing for sure, but others are probably best being shared in my opinion. Grinding enchanting 4 times seems a little intense simply because achievements aren't shared, likewise farming dolmens for a boss to spawn for the 3rd time is simply filler. Feel free to read through the thread, your concern has been discussed at length.

Selique wrote: »

Aren't achievements already shared? I mean, I have dyes unlocked on all my toons where I only met the achievement on one... Isn't that basically the same thing? What other purpose do these achievements serve other than dyes?

Dyes are shared, achievements are not, there's a difference. Achievements yield titles and achievement points alongside dyes and whatnot. So logging on to an alt I'm conscious that I have a billion achievements to do on this particular character, it's just an OCD thing really.

Cahuani wrote: »

I am against it because I think Zenimax is pushing for player commitment to one, or at least only a few toons. Thats why there is no need for alts to do all of the crafting, only one toon can hold a pet at a time, etc. I don't see why someone would want a lot of alts anyway, seeing as how one toon can explore all the factions.

See @madangrypally‌ post above mine, I'm inclined to disagree with you. The shared nature of the system wouldn't deter individuals from making alts, I have a Templar which is going to be my 'main' healer, a DK which is going to be my 'main' tank and I'm leveling a NB for lols, trying new classes and combinations is justified, a shared system would probably upset the roleplayers and individuals who have all their chats turned off for immersion.

Anvos · August 2014

Unsure

Personally I think that some should and some shouldn't as achieves like the vamp and were ones should be account wide since one character can't be both vamp and were at the same time meaning at best you have to just drop your primary subrace buy a bite, farm some, cure, and then go back to your choice of subrace.

Alternatively I could also see this achieve being turned mutually exclusive, where being a vamp removes/deactivates the were one and being a were removes/deactivates the vamp one.

Stonesthrow · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I don't want someone's level 3 alt walking around calling themselves 'Covenant Hero' or the equivalent.

If dyes are linked to achievements the character should have to earn them.

Since some are linked to specific choices made by a character that character should have to live with those choices.

EDIT - I see my characters as unique entities, it would be like you getting a qualification in RL just because your friend got one too.

Pretty much this, but I feel the way the dyes work was a great compromise on ZOS's part.

The dyes are shared across your account, that should be the only concern for anyone that has an issue with having to do the achieves on more than one character.

Not having to achieve titles because your other character has done the work already would undermine the whole reasoning behind "ACHIEVING" the title on that character. The RPG aspect factor for THAT character.

No one is going to get fishing on all their alts, most won't craft on all their alts, most won't even raid on every character… you don't need to.

Gimmie… gimmie… free... free… mine… mine… entitled to titles…. bah.

EQBallzz · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

Some may want to earn the achievements on different characters so I don't see why this is necessary. You already get the reward from achievements (dyes) shared so it's not like it's necessary to share the achievement part. If you don't want to do achievements on all characters you aren't missing anything. While I can sympathize with the OCD component of your argument I don't think that is a valid enough reason.

The_Sadist · August 2014

For

Stonesthrow wrote: »

Pretty much this, but I feel the way the dyes work was a great compromise on ZOS's part.

The dyes are shared across your account, that should be the only concern for anyone that has an issue with having to do the achieves on more than one character.

Not having to achieve titles because your other character has done the work already would undermine the whole reasoning behind "ACHIEVING" the title on that character. The RPG aspect factor for THAT character.

No one is going to get fishing on all their alts, most won't craft on all their alts, most won't even raid on every character… you don't need to.

Gimmie… gimmie… free... free… mine… mine… entitled to titles…. bah.

See, you can have your cake and eat it when it comes to dyes but when it comes to shared achievements and titles it's suddenly unacceptable in your eyes?

I feel dyes should be character specific personally, or at least specific to those who are against a shared system given the repeating nature of their argument 'my character is a unique individual and therefore should be treated like one'.

The same can be said about dyes, no? Dyes are linked to extremely hard achievements yet every character can access it, thus undermining the whole reasoning behind "ACHIEVING" The title on that character. The RPG aspect factor for THAT character.

Indeed, but you can and like I keep saying, OCD blah blah blah.

I can only

at your ending comment though.

EQBallzz wrote: »

Some may want to earn the achievements on different characters so I don't see why this is necessary. You already get the reward from achievements (dyes) shared so it's not like it's necessary to share the achievement part. If you don't want to do achievements on all characters you aren't missing anything. While I can sympathize with the OCD component of your argument I don't think that is a valid enough reason.

See above and throughout the topic, I explain my stance on the shared dyed system and whatnot. My OCD isn't argument enough but nor is no for the sake of no.

Tapio75 · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

This is still definitely one of those design choices where we dont really know what we need. All we know is what we want.

To add to that, when that account wide *** was introduced to WOW, it pretty much killed the pleasure of doing anything on new characters since they allready have it all.

No new beginning, nothing to earn on alts, all is ready and there is nothing to play for anymore.

Dye's however, they are just to make your character look like they should look and therefore should be available on every character once achieved. It makes no sense to achieve stuff for dyes as the natural ingredients for colors are all around you.

You cant call yourself a hero of the pact unless someone first declares you so.

The_Sadist · August 2014

For

Tapio75 wrote: »

This is still definitely one of those design choices where we dont really know what we need. All we know is what we want.

True enough, it does boil down to your opinion and stance on things. I'm very much for it due to prior game experience which utilised a shared system that prevented a great deal of pointless grinding, given your vote it's obvious you're against it, dare I ask why?

TehMagnus · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

Because I don't see why you would want that. As long as one char has it...

justin.sniesakub17_ESO · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

Why do people keep on insisting turning this game into wow. Stop with the stupid requests.

justin.sniesakub17_ESO · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

brandon wrote: »

The_Sadist wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

I said that I agreed with you that using a main to dye armor and then giving it to an alt would be cheapening the accomplishment of the achievement.

Fair enough. Say hypothetically you max and unlock everything on a character you enjoyed but suddenly a new class is released and an old class is revamped (looking at you Nightblade!). Does the notion of grinding to veteran rank 12 on both characters and spend months unlocking titles and hypothetical dyes appeal to you? Given you've been playing ESO for months and months.

I guess as a long time MMO player I can see the long term benefits to it, but I can understand why people are against it.. granted some reasons are illogical and senseless.

Well I'm not vet rank yet so I wouldn't be able to say how grinding that would feel. I am not in any hurry to obtain all the titles, achievements and dyes. I have yet to unlock most of the achievements and I'm fine with that. I understand people don't want to "grind" their way up again, but me and apparently a lot of other people seem fine with doing it all again.

Yep I look forward to it. You make my words requests for flying mounts will be coming after they get their way on this. Vote no!

justin.sniesakub17_ESO · August 2014

Against (please provide reasoning if possible)

Mordria wrote: »

I don't want anything shared between characters.

Neither do I, sharing things is STUPID in an MMO

The_Sadist · August 2014

For

justin.sniesakub17_ESO,

Please refrain from posting in my topic if all you're going to do is bait, flame and contribute little to the topic at hand. While I encourage opinionated debates and the general butting of heads, I won't tolerate pointless banter.

Cheers.