Bats, bats, bats - the legendary shido Batman etc.

Samadhi · July 2014

griszax wrote: »

Come on that kind of saying is just foolish. I said already I can live with these disadvantages because I need the ultimate for my build. On the other hand You are saying that these disadvantages are trivial which is just absurd. How can You say that EVERY dk doing 50 % more dmg on You isn't a huge disadvantage in 1 vs1 situation. I'm not even talking about siege damage but You are so concentrated on them that You miss the whole point.

Thing is I find the advantage vs disadvantage being balanced for a vampire while You call that those disadvantages are too small. You either troll me right now or You are just blind and ignorant.

I already stated my point and even came with math and tests . While You are just calling that fire skills do less damage than non fire (lmao go duel dk) , You are not afraid of siege damage and You don't need health regen while less than 8 mana/stam each 2 sec is so huge advantage.

Well, I suppose if you find the ultimate alone to be completely worth the disadvantages you perceive, that makes sense for you to stay vampire.
Personally, I find multiple benefits in the vampire line and I don't experience the issues you complain about.

In 1v1 situations another Nightblade tends to give me the best run for my money, particularly if they are a Nightblade Vampire like I am.

Being a vampire doesn't feel like a trade-off to me, it feels like a straight up buff.
I can't find any sound reason to gimp myself by curing vampire and going back to uninfected Bosmer.
I contrast that with werewolf (which I also maxed to 10 and tried various builds on) where I couldn't find a sound reason to stay infected.

Junipus · July 2014

You all realise it's down to the players and how they use the various abilities and little to do with the abilities themselves.

You can have two players with the same build, same stats etc and one will be almost impossible to kill and one will die quicker than you can attack them. It's all down to player abilities and situational awareness.

DontBeAfraid · July 2014

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

You all realise it's down to the players and how they use the various abilities and little to do with the abilities themselves.

it is not.
its not humanlike to seek the most enjoyable way for everyone.
it is humanlike to seek the easiest way.

Popeguard · July 2014

I actually fought Legendary Shido with one other by my side, and we almost killed him, during his emperor-ship.

Emperors are killable, not easy but possible.

Bat Swarm is cool and all, but i've seen templar's and DK without vampire abilities which would also wipe 10 people at once.

Skill and gear is a major factor in PVP, whoever tells you other wise is lying.

A poorly handled DK/ templar is useless.

shidoq8 · August 2014

hahahaha that title.

Cody · August 2014

ZOS_CatK wrote: »

Greetings and salutations!

This is a quick reminder that while we appreciate you guys helping our bot hunters out with your reports, naming and shaming other players as such on our forums is entirely unacceptable as detailed in our Forum Rules.

Please use the in game report feature to bring bots and hackers to our attention. Discussing the issue on the forum is perfectly fine, naming and shaming however is not.

Thank you and happy gaming!

ha. that's funny. I have yet to hear of any hackers or cheaters that you guys have banned thru the use of these reports. you have to expect people to name them on the forums if you do nothing about them in the game. I hope you plan to do a huge mass ban at some point, otherwise, expect this "policy" to be continually violated.

Garion · August 2014

I played PvP exclusively this weekend for 12 hours at least and you know how many times I died by bats - zero. I was killed from nova and banner several times by contrast. Do you know why I didn't die to bats? Because I roll away or use healing springs through it, and when they pop out of swarm I single target them with a knock down so they can't pop their ultimate again. They die in seconds because they only ever pop this ultimate against large groups when they are alone, or at least on the front lines. It's impossibly simple to deal with bats, I am not going to sit here and provide an in depth explanation because if you have even two brain cells you should be able to figure it out. If you want to see less bats in Cyrodiil, then start countering them with the skills you are provided - moaning about it here won't do you any good.

It's so incredibly annoying listening to people whine about it all the time. Improve your play style rather than crying to ZOS every time you stand around like a fool just waiting to die while bats hit you.

Samadhi · August 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

...
I'll be sure to compare on fire damage after 1.3 when I cure myself to compare Night's Silence crafted set between vampire and non-vampire.
In all personal experience though, fire damage in PvP never worries me in the least. This is just me speaking from experience though; I don't charge through Oil like you do. Perhaps that causes vampires problems, but it's not something I do.

...

So I went out and tested against some sources of Fire damage when I recently cured myself to test the Night's Silence set.

Flame Atronachs gave me the most consistent numbers, because all their hits do the same damages, their skill rotation is very basic, and they have no self buffs.

As a non-vampire with no fire resistance jewelry
150 on fireballs; 301 on their firey explosion skill
Burns ticking for 28

As a vampire with no fire resistance of any kind
225 on fireballs; 451 on firey explosion skill
Burns ticking for 42

As a vampire with a single fire resistance ring on (v10 legendary)
154 on fireballs; 308 on their firey explosion skill
The burning effect on the firey explosion did not apply to me on any of the tests

I unfortunately had no consistently reproducible tests with player skills in PvP; the game does not allow dueling and all my guild members play in the same alliance as me.

PvP damage should be more intimidating due to higher modifiers and things like Spell Penetration; however, I'm still not worried about Fire after having ran these formal tests. I wear a v10 Fire Resistance ring and that appears to almost completely cancel out almost all of the Fire damage increase; theoretically, I could equip a second ring but see no reason to.

I can see where issues may arise for vampires that do not equip fire resistance at all though.

griszax · August 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

...
I'll be sure to compare on fire damage after 1.3 when I cure myself to compare Night's Silence crafted set between vampire and non-vampire.
In all personal experience though, fire damage in PvP never worries me in the least. This is just me speaking from experience though; I don't charge through Oil like you do. Perhaps that causes vampires problems, but it's not something I do.

...

So I went out and tested against some sources of Fire damage when I recently cured myself to test the Night's Silence set.

Flame Atronachs gave me the most consistent numbers, because all their hits do the same damages, their skill rotation is very basic, and they have no self buffs.

As a non-vampire with no fire resistance jewelry
150 on fireballs; 301 on their firey explosion skill
Burns ticking for 28

As a vampire with no fire resistance of any kind
225 on fireballs; 451 on firey explosion skill
Burns ticking for 42

As a vampire with a single fire resistance ring on (v10 legendary)
154 on fireballs; 308 on their firey explosion skill
The burning effect on the firey explosion did not apply to me on any of the tests

I unfortunately had no consistently reproducible tests with player skills in PvP; the game does not allow dueling and all my guild members play in the same alliance as me.

PvP damage should be more intimidating due to higher modifiers and things like Spell Penetration; however, I'm still not worried about Fire after having ran these formal tests. I wear a v10 Fire Resistance ring and that appears to almost completely cancel out almost all of the Fire damage increase; theoretically, I could equip a second ring but see no reason to.

I can see where issues may arise for vampires that do not equip fire resistance at all though.

Seriously stop posting wrong information. If You want to proove something at least test this damage in pvp environment since we are talking about pvp right ? I tested this again and with 1425 fire resistance + 1180 fire resistance fire balista hit me for 611-684 fire damage each tick. On normal player this damage should be around 400.

Samadhi · August 2014

griszax wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

...
I'll be sure to compare on fire damage after 1.3 when I cure myself to compare Night's Silence crafted set between vampire and non-vampire.
In all personal experience though, fire damage in PvP never worries me in the least. This is just me speaking from experience though; I don't charge through Oil like you do. Perhaps that causes vampires problems, but it's not something I do.

...

So I went out and tested against some sources of Fire damage when I recently cured myself to test the Night's Silence set.

Flame Atronachs gave me the most consistent numbers, because all their hits do the same damages, their skill rotation is very basic, and they have no self buffs.

As a non-vampire with no fire resistance jewelry
150 on fireballs; 301 on their firey explosion skill
Burns ticking for 28

As a vampire with no fire resistance of any kind
225 on fireballs; 451 on firey explosion skill
Burns ticking for 42

As a vampire with a single fire resistance ring on (v10 legendary)
154 on fireballs; 308 on their firey explosion skill
The burning effect on the firey explosion did not apply to me on any of the tests

I unfortunately had no consistently reproducible tests with player skills in PvP; the game does not allow dueling and all my guild members play in the same alliance as me.

PvP damage should be more intimidating due to higher modifiers and things like Spell Penetration; however, I'm still not worried about Fire after having ran these formal tests. I wear a v10 Fire Resistance ring and that appears to almost completely cancel out almost all of the Fire damage increase; theoretically, I could equip a second ring but see no reason to.

I can see where issues may arise for vampires that do not equip fire resistance at all though.

Seriously stop posting wrong information. If You want to proove something at least test this damage in pvp environment since we are talking about pvp right ? I tested this again and with 1425 fire resistance + 1180 fire resistance fire balista hit me for 611-684 fire damage each tick. On normal player this damage should be around 400.

So when you cured yourself and went to test, you took 400 damage without any fire resistance of any kind on?
Perhaps Siege ignores all resistances then; I can't think of any other reason for the discrepancy.

griszax · August 2014

No i just put 2 (!) fire res rings went into fire balista to check the damage and then I used fire balista on other people and it was easy to see the difference between vampire and non vampire.

Samadhi · August 2014

griszax wrote: »

No i just put 2 (!) fire res rings went into fire balista to check the damage and then I used fire balista on other people and it was easy to see the difference between vampire and non vampire.

I see.

All my tests were done by curing myself, testing the damage with no fire resistance on, then going back to vampire and equipping 1 Fire Resistance ring.
I felt it made more sense for me to do it this way than to try and compare myself to another character with different stats than I have. This way I was able to control my variables.

I took exactly 50% more fire damage as a vampire with no ring on compared to as a regular Bosmer with no ring on.

I took almost no additional damage (as noted) as a vampire with a v10 legendary ring on compared to what I took as a Bosmer with no ring on.

Halrloprillalar · August 2014

Popeguard wrote: »

I actually fought Legendary Shido with one other by my side, and we almost killed him, during his emperor-ship.

Emperors are killable, not easy but possible.

Bat Swarm is cool and all, but i've seen templar's and DK without vampire abilities which would also wipe 10 people at once.

Skill and gear is a major factor in PVP, whoever tells you other wise is lying.

A poorly handled DK/ templar is useless.

a poorly handled any class is useless

Braidas · August 2014

Popeguard wrote: »

I actually fought Legendary Shido with one other by my side, and we almost killed him, during his emperor-ship.

Emperors are killable, not easy but possible.

Bat Swarm is cool and all, but i've seen templar's and DK without vampire abilities which would also wipe 10 people at once.

Skill and gear is a major factor in PVP, whoever tells you other wise is lying.

A poorly handled DK/ templar is useless.

to be fair, his build is prob set up to take on large groups. as emp, i could often wipe groups of 15+ w/ batswarm+spearshards+blinding flashes+blazing shield, largely b/c them grouping up gives me enough ult to maintain batswarm 24/7. Against 5-6 very good v12's who spread out, i had a far more difficult time.

Vunter · August 2014

Brandeospeedwagon wrote: »

Popeguard wrote: »

I actually fought Legendary Shido with one other by my side, and we almost killed him, during his emperor-ship.

Emperors are killable, not easy but possible.

Bat Swarm is cool and all, but i've seen templar's and DK without vampire abilities which would also wipe 10 people at once.

Skill and gear is a major factor in PVP, whoever tells you other wise is lying.

A poorly handled DK/ templar is useless.

to be fair, his build is prob set up to take on large groups. as emp, i could often wipe groups of 15+ w/ batswarm+spearshards+blinding flashes+blazing shield, largely b/c them grouping up gives me enough ult to maintain batswarm 24/7. Against 5-6 very good v12's who spread out, i had a far more difficult time.

..Aaaand this is the problem, in my opinion. Bat swarm is fine on not-emperors, you can just roll/bolt escape/etc away and wait the effect to finish. But emperors have always the ultimate ready and are usually in the middle of a zerg, so you can't even hit it at 100% with an aoe for the cap and well.. Try to get close to a player made train and spam impulse lol
And Bat Swarm gives an immunity to single target abilities too.
I think 100% ultimate gain passive is a bit too high, they're emperors, but come on, that's exaggerate..

Braidas · August 2014

Vunter wrote: »

Brandeospeedwagon wrote: »

Popeguard wrote: »

I actually fought Legendary Shido with one other by my side, and we almost killed him, during his emperor-ship.

Emperors are killable, not easy but possible.

Bat Swarm is cool and all, but i've seen templar's and DK without vampire abilities which would also wipe 10 people at once.

Skill and gear is a major factor in PVP, whoever tells you other wise is lying.

A poorly handled DK/ templar is useless.

to be fair, his build is prob set up to take on large groups. as emp, i could often wipe groups of 15+ w/ batswarm+spearshards+blinding flashes+blazing shield, largely b/c them grouping up gives me enough ult to maintain batswarm 24/7. Against 5-6 very good v12's who spread out, i had a far more difficult time.

..Aaaand this is the problem, in my opinion. Bat swarm is fine on not-emperors, you can just roll/bolt escape/etc away and wait the effect to finish. But emperors have always the ultimate ready and are usually in the middle of a zerg, so you can't even hit it at 100% with an aoe for the cap and well.. Try to get close to a player made train and spam impulse lol
And Bat Swarm gives an immunity to single target abilities too.
I think 100% ultimate gain passive is a bit too high, they're emperors, but come on, that's exaggerate..

actually, even as non-emp, i can do the same and just about keep it up 24/7 as well

i just don't last quite as long cause i get aoe'd down

Vunter · August 2014

Brandeospeedwagon wrote: »

Vunter wrote: »

Brandeospeedwagon wrote: »

Popeguard wrote: »

I actually fought Legendary Shido with one other by my side, and we almost killed him, during his emperor-ship.

Emperors are killable, not easy but possible.

Bat Swarm is cool and all, but i've seen templar's and DK without vampire abilities which would also wipe 10 people at once.

Skill and gear is a major factor in PVP, whoever tells you other wise is lying.

A poorly handled DK/ templar is useless.

to be fair, his build is prob set up to take on large groups. as emp, i could often wipe groups of 15+ w/ batswarm+spearshards+blinding flashes+blazing shield, largely b/c them grouping up gives me enough ult to maintain batswarm 24/7. Against 5-6 very good v12's who spread out, i had a far more difficult time.

..Aaaand this is the problem, in my opinion. Bat swarm is fine on not-emperors, you can just roll/bolt escape/etc away and wait the effect to finish. But emperors have always the ultimate ready and are usually in the middle of a zerg, so you can't even hit it at 100% with an aoe for the cap and well.. Try to get close to a player made train and spam impulse lol
And Bat Swarm gives an immunity to single target abilities too.
I think 100% ultimate gain passive is a bit too high, they're emperors, but come on, that's exaggerate..

actually, even as non-emp, i can do the same and just about keep it up 24/7 as well i just don't last quite as long cause i get aoe'd down

Oh lol. Well, players that just stay in the bats raising your ultimate points and dying are to blame in this case..

Braidas · August 2014

Vunter wrote: »

Brandeospeedwagon wrote: »

Vunter wrote: »

Brandeospeedwagon wrote: »

Popeguard wrote: »

I actually fought Legendary Shido with one other by my side, and we almost killed him, during his emperor-ship.

Emperors are killable, not easy but possible.

Bat Swarm is cool and all, but i've seen templar's and DK without vampire abilities which would also wipe 10 people at once.

Skill and gear is a major factor in PVP, whoever tells you other wise is lying.

A poorly handled DK/ templar is useless.

to be fair, his build is prob set up to take on large groups. as emp, i could often wipe groups of 15+ w/ batswarm+spearshards+blinding flashes+blazing shield, largely b/c them grouping up gives me enough ult to maintain batswarm 24/7. Against 5-6 very good v12's who spread out, i had a far more difficult time.

..Aaaand this is the problem, in my opinion. Bat swarm is fine on not-emperors, you can just roll/bolt escape/etc away and wait the effect to finish. But emperors have always the ultimate ready and are usually in the middle of a zerg, so you can't even hit it at 100% with an aoe for the cap and well.. Try to get close to a player made train and spam impulse lol
And Bat Swarm gives an immunity to single target abilities too.
I think 100% ultimate gain passive is a bit too high, they're emperors, but come on, that's exaggerate..

actually, even as non-emp, i can do the same and just about keep it up 24/7 as well i just don't last quite as long cause i get aoe'd down

Oh lol. Well, players that just stay in the bats raising your ultimate points and dying are to blame in this case..

indeed

Enkil · August 2014

Clouding swarm is ridiculous and any objective person will readily admit it. Don't know how it even made it in the game as is.

The invisibility component is the problem. There are counters to vampires but a cloud swarm is not targetable. A Templar (anti-vampire) can fire of his sun fire aoe morph or vampire's bane or silver bolts directly at this swarm and it does nothing. This cannot be working as intended! Needs be addressed and balanced.

At minimum, the invisibility/un-targetability component need to break on use of any other skills.

Braidas · August 2014

Enkil wrote: »

Clouding swarm is ridiculous and any objective person will readily admit it. Don't know how it even made it in the game as is.

The invisibility component is the problem. There are counters to vampires but a cloud swarm is not targetable. A Templar (anti-vampire) can fire of his sun fire aoe morph or vampire's bane or silver bolts directly at this swarm and it does nothing. This cannot be working as intended! Needs be addressed and balanced.

At minimum, the invisibility/un-targetability component need to break on use of any other skills.

other counters: impulse (any aoe rlly), fire rune, daedric mines (any cc rlly), use some kind of shield (blazing)/heal/block/try to move (BE, cloak) till over. unless in a zerg and aoeing, vamps not gonna get swarm back tht fast. what not to do: stand in it and try to single target invisible guy.

killedbyping · August 2014

There are way to many people abusing Nerf Threads. Please nerf the nerf threads.

thomaswinkworthb16_ESO · August 2014

What's strong about Bat Swarm is noobs can't see you, and you can still use oil.

Right now Templar counters this Bat Swarming with Blazing shield, it's rather funny actually, try Bat Swarming just a single Templar with the ability to spam Blazing shields at 1000 health relfecting 63% damage... so lulz

I can get off 18 Blazing shields without food or pots, 1 after the after

Garion · August 2014

thomaswinkworthb16_ESO wrote: »

I can get off 18 Blazing shields without food or pots, 1 after the after

Nerf it

olsborg · August 2014

I love killing vampires, and I only find them sightly op when they hit their ultimate and a bunch of noobs stand in their swarm. I wouldnt say it needed nerfing tho, but noobs are very susceptible to that kinda tactic.

Cant wait for spellcrafting tho, Fireball Version of Crystal fragment and curse....burn sucky burn.

olsborg · August 2014

Oh another thing, the batswarm morph that makes you invisible, they can still cast spells etc while in the swarm, but you cant see it or the spell effects, just suddenly you take dmg out of nowehere.

This has happened to me a few times...and that specificly needs adressing.

Gargragrond · August 2014

I don't know if the skill itself is too powerful or not, but it would be nice to have a bit better visual cues when the swarm is going on. Maybe it's just my low particle setting or the display, but those bats are extremely hard to see in a middle of combat. IF I can see them, I can move away, but more ofthen than not I just die without ever noticing them. Compare that to e.g. DK banner which is pretty hard to miss with a giant flag and a red ring of fire..

I think it should be easy to see in any situation if "suddenly there was a terrible roar all around us and the sky was full of what looked like huge bats, all swooping and screeching and diving"

Raash · August 2014

Angerd wrote: »

Forcing everyone to be Vampire at pvp is not so clever. But atm - if player wanna be OP - must be a Vampire. Check this issue, please, nerf and make some smart changes. I hope - this will be one of most important topics at QuakeCon 2014. Today.

think they should remove vampires from being playable really, vampirism is a sickness and should be treated like it. Up the fire weakness tenfold at the very least and make silver bolts insta kill them again.

Maulkin · August 2014

Raash wrote: »

Angerd wrote: »

Forcing everyone to be Vampire at pvp is not so clever. But atm - if player wanna be OP - must be a Vampire. Check this issue, please, nerf and make some smart changes. I hope - this will be one of most important topics at QuakeCon 2014. Today.

think they should remove vampires from being playable really, vampirism is a sickness and should be treated like it. Up the fire weakness tenfold at the very least and make silver bolts insta kill them again.

Did you escape the crazy house again? I even warned the nurses to keep an eye on you! Amateurs...

Raash · August 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

Angerd wrote: »

Forcing everyone to be Vampire at pvp is not so clever. But atm - if player wanna be OP - must be a Vampire. Check this issue, please, nerf and make some smart changes. I hope - this will be one of most important topics at QuakeCon 2014. Today.

think they should remove vampires from being playable really, vampirism is a sickness and should be treated like it. Up the fire weakness tenfold at the very least and make silver bolts insta kill them again.

Did you escape the crazy house again? I even warned the nurses to keep an eye on you! Amateurs...

Yeah im out again! Seriously tho, ive heard just about every argument there is for having vampires in the game, and they are all lame. Sure in the singel player ES games you could be a vampire, but it had major drawbacks. In this game everyone and their dog is a vampire - simply because there are no real drawbacks to be one!
Best thing that ever could happen is if they take it away from game. /pray

griszax · August 2014

Raash wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

Angerd wrote: »

Forcing everyone to be Vampire at pvp is not so clever. But atm - if player wanna be OP - must be a Vampire. Check this issue, please, nerf and make some smart changes. I hope - this will be one of most important topics at QuakeCon 2014. Today.

think they should remove vampires from being playable really, vampirism is a sickness and should be treated like it. Up the fire weakness tenfold at the very least and make silver bolts insta kill them again.

Did you escape the crazy house again? I even warned the nurses to keep an eye on you! Amateurs...

Yeah im out again! Seriously tho, ive heard just about every argument there is for having vampires in the game, and they are all lame. Sure in the singel player ES games you could be a vampire, but it had major drawbacks. In this game everyone and their dog is a vampire - simply because there are no real drawbacks to be one!
Best thing that ever could happen is if they take it away from game. /pray

The only lame thing is all these noobs crying how op batswarm is. I dare every single of them to spec vampire and show how "OP" they are.

You see lots of vampires because people want to farm AP and that ultimate is one of the best AOE ultimates for farming really crap and clueless players. People that die from batswarm would die just as easy from any other ultimate.

You should try to use impenetrable in pvp, healing staff on second bar and You will notice how easy it is to counter vampire aoe damage. Only people that want to nerf this ultimate are players that don't want to think about ways of countering player using batswarm.