Bats, bats, bats - the legendary shido Batman etc.

demenzia · July 2014

Look, if suddenly after the patch half of Cyrodiil population starts using one or another ability and it becomes epidemic on unprecedented scale, then it means this ability is OP. Simple as that. I remember first few days after the patch 1.3. when everyone started to use silver bolts, it turned into silver bolts online, now it's happening with this bat thing (as it was few months ago when it was broken). Stop pretending you don't notice these things because you're such a great player (probably a vampire that used to use silver bolt lol) and others need l2p. I've seen some former emperors being wiped by bats spammers and I can assure you, they are really good players.

Lava_Croft · July 2014

I never see good players getting wiped by people using Clouding Swarm unless those good players were just unlucky.

'OP' on the ESO forums means "I am unable to counter this and improving my game is out of the question."

Teargrants · July 2014

First off, clouding swarm spam isn't as epidemic as devouring swarm spam was when they could exploit broken synergies to reach 0 cost ultimate, nor is it as OP.

Second, I'm a vamp sorc, I use soul assault and power overload, not bat swarm/impulse because they work far better for my play style. I never used silver bolt when it was bugged, so thanks for the accusation.

I'm not pretending anything, I don't have trouble with bat swarmers in 1v1, the usual ones that use swarm + impulse are pathetically easy once their swarm ends because impulse is crap in 1v1. All I need to do is BE, kite their bats, then curse/fury/soul assault most of the time. DK vamps are trickey, but that's because they're DKs. Where clouding swarm is powerful is in and vs groups.

Mind telling us what exactly both sides are doing when you see bats wiping people, rather than just leaving it vague? Can't really have any constructive debate speaking in generalities.

hamon · July 2014

the elphant in the room that everyone knows is anything thats really powerfull plus DK's = OP.. and its always gonna be the case untill the classes get balanced against dk's. either buff other classes up or nerf dk's... or a combination of both.

TomLukman · July 2014

demenzia wrote: »

Look, if suddenly after the patch half of Cyrodiil population starts using one or another ability and it becomes epidemic on unprecedented scale, then it means this ability is OP. Simple as that.

You've said it all right there.

ZOS_CatK · July 2014

Greetings and salutations!

This is a quick reminder that while we appreciate you guys helping our bot hunters out with your reports, naming and shaming other players as such on our forums is entirely unacceptable as detailed in our Forum Rules.

Please use the in game report feature to bring bots and hackers to our attention. Discussing the issue on the forum is perfectly fine, naming and shaming however is not.

Thank you and happy gaming!

demenzia · July 2014

Dear ZOS, these players are not bots, hackers or even exploiters. They just spam abilities you have failed to balance.

valiel · July 2014

Quicky Ra is a bot, i know it!)

CoUsT · July 2014

In my opinion it's not about "vampire is OP". It's more like:

a) you can spam abilities when you are invisible in Cloud Swarm
b) if you want to be emperor... you have to be batman... why? because it's the fastest way to get AP - AND this is main problem. All leaderboards are full of vampires and top1 is ALWAYS vampire. If you want to be competitive - you need to become vampire.

IKilled007 · July 2014

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I never see good players getting wiped by people using Clouding Swarm unless those good players were just unlucky.

'OP' on the ESO forums means "I am unable to counter this and improving my game is out of the question."

So ESO was wrong to make the changes to shield bash? It wasn't OP, it was just a l2p issue? Tell us more.

Lava_Croft · July 2014

IKilled007 wrote: »

So ESO was wrong to make the changes to shield bash? It wasn't OP, it was just a l2p issue? Tell us more.

Shield Bash was positively broken, Clouding Swarm is not. Even remotely suggesting that Clouding Swarm is on the same level as Shield Bash before it got fixed is borderline ridiculous.

IKilled007 · July 2014

Lava_Croft wrote: »

IKilled007 wrote: »

So ESO was wrong to make the changes to shield bash? It wasn't OP, it was just a l2p issue? Tell us more.

Shield Bash was positively broken, Clouding Swarm is not. Even remotely suggesting that Clouding Swarm is on the same level as Shield Bash before it got fixed is borderline ridiculous.

That's not at all what I am suggesting. You claimed that

'OP' on the ESO forums means "I am unable to counter this and improving my game is out of the question."

and I am simply pointing out that this is not always the case. Furthermore, a lot of people put up that same argument when people complained about shield bash.

chimneyswift_ESO · July 2014

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

It's ultimate reduction stacking that's the culprit here. It will forever be a problem until caps are placed on it. They nerfed vampire once already because of this problem and it's still happening, which is only proof that vampire was never the problem to begin with

Really can't believe people are still complaining about this...this post is really the only post I've seen since the "Great Vamp Nerf of 2014" seeing as that fixed pretty much every issue people complained about. And of course vampire was never really the problem...the problem is the player base who knowingly and willingly exploit a known bug to get a quick advantage. Some people just have no limit to how low they'll stoop just to get a few extra Alliance Points.

acarthoblazb16_ESO · July 2014

Unplayable. Wo is the RvR from beta, so nice to play.... ?

Soris · July 2014

I laugh so bad when a person says CC and kite swarmmers in 1v1. You simply cant target him/her, how you supposed to throw some CC?

Maybe a socerer can kite with bolt escape, but im a templar and all i can do is dodge roll and pop some heals or blazing shield while he running to me with his bats and other nasty spells. If i have no stamina/magicka or dont have 3 stat potions, im dead.

It's not a L2P issue, it's just a bad mechanic because of immunity and able to cast other spells while in bat form

Halrloprillalar · July 2014

faernaa wrote: »

I laugh so bad when a person says CC and kite swarmmers in 1v1. You simply cant target him/her, how you supposed to throw some CC?

Maybe a socerer can kite with bolt escape, but im a templar and all i can do is dodge roll and pop some heals or blazing shield while he running to me with his bats and other nasty spells. If i have no stamina/magicka or dont have 3 stat potions, im dead.

It's not a L2P issue, it's just a bad mechanic because of immunity and able to cast other spells while in bat form

It's not immunity, it's invisibility, you still eat full aoe damage (including oil), and roots. Templars can outheal some redic ***, so a single person using batswarm shouldn't be an issue. If it's a whole raid casting it at once = the current DC guest zerg on DB, for example, - that's another story.

Soris · July 2014

Yeah I meant invisibility, sorry for wrong word.

I usually don't involve any big fights that includes any kind of zergball tactics, so it doesn't bother me so much. But yeah it's an another problem should really looking into it by ZOS.

As a templar I don't have aoe roots which doesn't need to target something, like talons or encase. However I have blazing spear which randomly stuns 1 person in the area of effect but it doesn't work against clouding swarm

Halrloprillalar · July 2014

faernaa wrote: »

Yeah I meant invisibility, sorry for wrong word.

I usually don't involve any big fights that includes any kind of zergball tactics, so it doesn't bother me so much. But yeah it's an another problem should really looking into it by ZOS.

As a templar I don't have aoe roots which doesn't need to target something, like talons or encase. However I have blazing spear which randomly stuns 1 person in the area of effect but it doesn't work against clouding swarm

Just aim for the center of it. Or drop your own ult (nova) and stand in it. Vamps love fire damage.

JLB · July 2014

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

faernaa wrote: »

Yeah I meant invisibility, sorry for wrong word.

I usually don't involve any big fights that includes any kind of zergball tactics, so it doesn't bother me so much. But yeah it's an another problem should really looking into it by ZOS.

As a templar I don't have aoe roots which doesn't need to target something, like talons or encase. However I have blazing spear which randomly stuns 1 person in the area of effect but it doesn't work against clouding swarm

Just aim for the center of it. Or drop your own ult (nova) and stand in it. Vamps love fire damage.

Yep, have that 300 Ultimate ready every time a Vamp comes around with his Ultimate that costs 3 times less than yours. Problem solved

Now toggling sarcasm off, I can only agree with other comments here:
Swarms shouldn't allow you to cast any spell while invisible or they should make the Swarm static.
Right now the Ultimate is way too good (providing too much immunity and damage while having 100% mobility at the same time) for such a cheap cost at stage 4.

kijima · July 2014

That's all I've got...

Sanct16 · July 2014

The ultimate is the reason why you get vampire. You get a really strong ultimate but take 50% more fire damage, have your health regen lowered by 75%.

If you were not able to cast during invisibility, this morph would be total ***.

In my opinion nerfing every good setup/skill isn't the way to go. People should spend more time on thinking about way to counter something and not start screaming for a nerf. Once batswarm was OP. Now it isn't.

Tintinabula · July 2014

Just make it so the caster cannot be targeted for 6 seconds while casting any other ultimate. Then we will see how "not OP" it is

Soris · July 2014

Are you guys real?

A capped health regen gives you around 35 health in a second. %75 lowered regen means nothing. Rapid regen/mutagen simply doing better.

%50 vulnurable to fire? Meh, pick a fire ring and you will be ok.

In trade of these, you get an op ultimate which cost nearly nothing and has *** mechanic like you can cast other spells while you move your op ultimate anywhere you want + invis.

Vampires should be powerfull i agree with that, BUT they should have more serious drawbacks

Oh yea I see the point now. So you can easily do more than 1k damage in each tick over 6 seconds to everyone around you using *** mechanics and so you dont want to lose this

timidobserver · July 2014

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

faernaa wrote: »

Yeah I meant invisibility, sorry for wrong word.

I usually don't involve any big fights that includes any kind of zergball tactics, so it doesn't bother me so much. But yeah it's an another problem should really looking into it by ZOS.

As a templar I don't have aoe roots which doesn't need to target something, like talons or encase. However I have blazing spear which randomly stuns 1 person in the area of effect but it doesn't work against clouding swarm

Just aim for the center of it. Or drop your own ult (nova) and stand in it. Vamps love fire damage.

Really? You are suggesting that Templar counter Bat Swarm with Nova because it does fire damage?

Well sadly Nova doesn't deal fire damage. Also, the massive ultimate cost renders it useless for any kind of small scale pitched battle. You could come out better popping your practiced incantation every time they pop Bat Swarm, although that would be a terrible option as well.

The best way for a Templar to counter Bat Swarm is with Bat Swarm.

DontBeAfraid · July 2014

faernaa wrote: »

Oh yea I see the point now. So you can easily do more than 1k damage in each tick over 6 seconds to everyone around you using *** mechanics and so you dont want to lose this

my bats do ~250 dmg on everyone around.
no idea how u wanna stack this up to 1k o_O

explain please.

Teargrants · July 2014

faernaa wrote: »

Are you guys real?

It's abundantly clear you've never tried playing as a vamp, or seriously looked at it if you ever did, so let me dissect it for you.

faernaa wrote: »

A capped health regen gives you around 35 health in a second. %75 lowered regen means nothing. Rapid regen/mutagen simply doing better.

Do you even look at your stats in Cyrodiil? Current soft cap for health:

In patch 1.3

So yes, 75% reduction is a big deal, especially when 1.3 goes live.

faernaa wrote: »

%50 vulnurable to fire? Meh, pick a fire ring and you will be ok.

A fire resist enchant pushing you up to the hard cap won't even come close to mitigating the fire DMG unless you're a Dunmer. Spell resist can mitigate by up to 50% at the hard cap. Mitigation is additive in this game, as a basic vamp you're taking 150% fire DMG. Then if you max fire resist with enchants, you get it down to 100%, which you must remember is the same as a non vampire who has 0% spell resist. So go ahead, strip off all your clothes and prance around in Cyrodiil. That's how hard fire hits vamps who max out their fire resist through gear and enchants. The only way to remotely get around this is as I said, by being a Dunmer for an added 30% fire resist. FYI not all vamps are Dunmer.

faernaa wrote: »

In trade of these, you get an op ultimate which cost nearly nothing and has *** mechanic like you can cast other spells while you move your op ultimate anywhere you want + invis.

The issue here is he has 2 means of damaging you with clouding swarm: the bat pbaoe, and casting spells at you. It can be difficult to counter, but not impossible. Sorcs have it easiest, they just need to BE 2x, then hold block and slowly walk backwards. NBs can go stealth unless they have a dot on them (which betamax needs to fix). Templars have blazing shield. DKs are stuck w/ dodge/sprinting out of the bats and trying to keep distance. And of course, non-targeted CC for those who have it.

Now, the real potential problem here comes when the vamp uses gap closers. As earlier, sorcs and NBs can avoid it, but it puts temps and DKs in a harder spot. Then again, with rolling/running it isn't too hard to avoid for say 3 seconds. Then if you didn't even block the other half, bat's doing what, about 678 DMG.

faernaa wrote: »

Vampires should be powerfull i agree with that, BUT they should have more serious drawbacks

As I explained, vamps do have serious draw backs, nor are they as powerful as you would claim. Also, you forgot this:

faernaa wrote: »

Oh yea I see the point now. So you can easily do more than 1k damage in each tick over 6 seconds to everyone around you using *** mechanics and so you dont want to lose this

Cuz that totally says 1,000 DMG per second.

I get it, you have an ax to grind for some reason, but if you're going to hate on something and demand nerfs, do your research first so you can form an educated opinion at least.

Soris · July 2014

Yeah bats don't do massive damage on their own, but if you ever read that quote you could understand what I meant.

Teargrants · July 2014

I did, did you read my post?

Kirsika wrote: »

The issue here is he has 2 means of damaging you with clouding swarm: the bat pbaoe, and casting spells at you.

I am trying to address the way vamps can cast at you while invisible w/ clouding swarm.

Is that really all you have to say in reply to the points I discussed?

Sanct16 · July 2014

Good players will always find a way to kill superior pug numbers. No way you kill a good group with it though.

Vampires got nerfed enough already unless you want it to be completly pointless.

Soris · July 2014

I wrote it to DontBeAfrait. Failed to hit F5 before post it.

Health regen not gonna be real problem in 1.3 too. It goes up to 65 health in a second.

With capped fire resist you will have 0 FIRE resist like non vampires not 0 resist to all elements. But im not sure about fire resist, maybe you'll have -%25 but still it's not a big issue for any vamp.

I too do address on able to cast spells while in bat form like you. It does way more than 226 in a geared vamp and can be stacked other damaging spells as i say which does tons of damage

And please look at that ultimate cost for god sake and please say if its ok. I have nova cost 275 and it doesn't even do half of the swarm's damage