ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I would just make past season gear extremely easy to obtain and make it very viable. I mean like, a couple days of casual play easy. Kind of like a full set of exotic gear in GW2. That should allow an easy entry into the game.

They should take a look at how SWTOR initially tried to do their PVP gear, and make extra effort not to do anything remotely similar to that.

Make it craftable. Any gear that is last season can be crafted at one of the existing crafting stations.

Give a little to both groups.

For this to work well, they would need to cancel the plan of making out of season gear purchasable from a vendor.

Are PvP season gear we are talk about or is PvE season gear we are talk about??

If is PvP season gear we are talking about i don't see any problem with to be honest for fact is that PvP can be very competition.

But if is PvE people would go crazy for fact is that PvE loot is more random drop on and take way to long to complete a whole set i reminder when i play AoC it took me 1.5 year to complete T1 set on my DT back then that was pain i was farming very week and i was go crazy.

As long as season gear is not necessarily the best available in all aspects and definitely a must have - then I'm all for it.

Laura wrote: »

wait till we know a little more about it before losing your mind over it IMHO.

Agreed. But at the same time one of the points that was made a number of times by the ZOS panel was that they do monitor the forums and use the feedback there to inform direction and priorities. So I think it is perfectly valid to raise questions and concerns here now when there is still an opportunity to influence things.

Far better to keep a level head and raise things early than to QQ after the event (tho' of course that's a given anyways).

If I understood well, they said that when a new season comes, you can get the old season gear easily. The purpose is not to discourage the players but try to please everyone.

killedbyping wrote: »

What the hell are you talking about ? Season gear is a great idia.
First of all, constantly appearing new gear IS the thing that keep players in the game and make them to play even more.
Having season gear will make many players like... proud of them self ? Bcoz they will have a gear which nobody of players who came later have.

I see many people here compare MMO to real life for some reason. Just... WHY?!
Yes, in real life you would probably want to just get what you want and then just sit on your ass doing nothing and use what you have untill the end of your days.
But why would want that in MMO RPG ? You guys seem to never played MMO before. As soon as you get all you wanted, you lose interest to the game and just stop playing it.
Therefore the LACK of new content, new level caps and new gear IS the reason why ppl will unsub, not the opposite...

I agree with you but if the go to update with new season gear very 3 to 4 month the need it be easy to get while that season gear is on live server for otherwise it is pointless to try to get before the season is over even if you can buy at vendor for in game currency for as i say early in this post it took me 1.5 year to get the full T1 set on DT in AoC which in this case would be way to long time to get full season gear i just tell as i see it.

killedbyping wrote: »

What the hell are you talking about ? Season gear is a great idia.
First of all, constantly appearing new gear IS the thing that keep players in the game and make them to play even more.
Having season gear will make many players like... proud of them self ? Bcoz they will have a gear which nobody of players who came later have.

I see many people here compare MMO to real life for some reason. Just... WHY?!
Yes, in real life you would probably want to just get what you want and then just sit on your ass doing nothing and use what you have untill the end of your days.
But why would want that in MMO RPG ? You guys seem to never played MMO before. As soon as you get all you wanted, you lose interest to the game and just stop playing it.
Therefore the LACK of new content, new level caps and new gear IS the reason why ppl will unsub, not the opposite...

Okay - I think what you've just put your finger on is kind of key...
- will each new season's gear be linked to a new level cap?
OR
- will each new season's gear be for the existing level cap?

If it's the former then I would hope that new crafting levels would be introduced to maintain the balance between farmed gear and crafted gear.

If it's the latter then it would be interesting to understand how crafted gear keeps pace with the arms race that the season's will introduce.

killedbyping wrote: »

What the hell are you talking about ? Season gear is a great idia.
First of all, constantly appearing new gear IS the thing that keep players in the game and make them to play even more.
Having season gear will make many players like... proud of them self ? Bcoz they will have a gear which nobody of players who came later have.

I see many people here compare MMO to real life for some reason. Just... WHY?!
Yes, in real life you would probably want to just get what you want and then just sit on your ass doing nothing and use what you have untill the end of your days.
But why would want that in MMO RPG ? You guys seem to never played MMO before. As soon as you get all you wanted, you lose interest to the game and just stop playing it.
Therefore the LACK of new content, new level caps and new gear IS the reason why ppl will unsub, not the opposite...

Without a gear grind, there is still fun to be had in the game; new skill lines, pvp ranks ,new instances/trails and chaseing champion points, skyshards/achievements, the new spell crafting coming in, dyes and general fun from playing around with your char. All in all alot to do to improve your char. Some years back, counter strike was a much played game, where the only advancement to be had was getting better at the game. So imo if the game is fun, you dont need a dog biscuit to keep having fun.

On the one hand I do not want seasonal gear unless the equivalent can be crafted because I enjoy being able to craft the best things in the game. It's part of the reason why I spend my time trying to unlock all the traits.

On the other hand, I realize that those who work hard on end game content should be rewarded.

It just worries me that when you introduce seasonal gear, if it has even a small advantage, you are going to see groups that exclude others from content if they don't already have the best gear.

I think I'm just going to have to wait and see how this seasonal gear affects the game. I definitely understand the need for it to give PVE players something to work towards when they run out of current content. But I can't help but worry about the inevitable power creep that will result.

Perhaps one thing developers can consider doing is giving us new crafting set bonuses available at special crafting stations which would allows us to make gear with set bonuses that are highly desirable and not available on any seasonal set gear that drops. So that even if we are unable to craft the current season gear, we can make the previous season gear but make it better than when it was first available. So you'd end up with something like season .5 (crafted set bonus) and season 1 (dropped) , season 1.5 (crafted set bonus) and season 2 (dropped). etc. With the old dropped season gear being available for purchase at vendors. I wouldn't mind this.

Two questions come to mind when reading this thread.

How large is the possible market segment for a fantasy based mmorpg that offers both horizontal and vertical progression?

How large is the possible market segment for a fantasy based mmorpg that only offers horizontal progression?

The top ten revenue earning subscription based mmo's for 2013:


The top ten revenue earning non-subscription based mmo's for 2013:


The top ten revenue per player non-subscription based mmo's for 2013:



GW2 shunned vertical progression and embraced a system of pure horizontal progression.

GW2 launched to sterling reviews in the (8 of 10) to (10 of 10) bracket, and was labelled as the next 'big' mmo.

GW2 has seen frequent continual content development and polish to the game.

GW2 is a sub-free B2P cash shop game.

It was a mmo that 'everybody' bought or tried.

While being a recently released MMO that was very well received by the gaming press, and while scoring high on revenue per player, it does not even rank among top 10 revenue earning subscription free mmo's.

Still early in its life span, GW2 has become a game that 'nobody' plays.

If 'horizontal only' progression is the 'best' format for a mmo in terms of attracting players, and thereby possible revenue, then what did GW2 do 'wrong'?

Is that the only market segment that ESO should compete for?
What financial future would that entail for ESO?
Is there room for ESO in a small market segment that is already dominated by a sub-free cash shop game?

If ESO was or was not going to have vertical progression elements, was a major question I had before deciding to buy and subscribe to the game.

My hope was that it would contain both vertical and horizontal progression.

I felt the information contained in this developer article gave sufficient confirmation, to warrant a purchase.

elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2014/03/26/esos-veteran-content

To quote the article:

The Future

Describing the veteran gameplay strategy in these terms also leaves out a very important, but necessary element in the strategy: new systems or growth in breadth as well as vertical growth of current systems.

If Zenimax was to decide to change or alter this stated intent, which is fully within their rights and perogative as developers of the game, and pursue or switch to a progression system that was mostly horizontal in nature and severely curbing, removing or halting vertical progression, then I do hope they would inform us that this was their revised intent.

If I have misinterpreted the above intention statement by Zenimax, then that is my mistake and I have bought the wrong product. It is a statement that in many ways can be understood differently based on different consumer preferences.

Goresnort wrote: »

*snip*

GW 2 shunned vertical progression and embraced a system of pure horizontal progression.

GW2 launched to sterling reviews in the (8 of 10) to (10 of 10) bracket, and was labelled as the next 'big' mmo.

GW2 has seen frequent continual content development and polish to the game.

GW2 is a sub-free B2P cash shop game.

It was a mmo that 'everybody' bought or tried.

While being a recently released MMO that was very well received by the gaming press, and while scoring high on revenue per player, it does not even rank among top 10 revenue earning subscription free mmo's.

Still early in its life span, GW2 has become a game that 'nobody' plays.

If 'horizontal only' progression is the 'best' format for a mmo in terms of attracting players, and thereby possible revenue, then what did GW2 do 'wrong'?

Is that the only market segment that ESO should compete for?
What financial future would that entail for ESO?
Is there room for ESO in a small market segment that is already dominated by a sub-free cash shop game?

If ESO was or was not going to have vertical progression elements, was a major question I had before deciding to buy and subscribe to the game.

My hope was that it would contain both vertical and horizontal progression.

*snip*

GW2 was sadly lacking many of the elements that were found in GW1 that kept players playing that game for many years despite the fact that it had no vertical armor progression. However, it had a lot of challenging activities. If GW2 had enough sense to have kept a lot of the things from GW1 that players found fun, they wouldn't be having so many issues with player retention. As it stands now, there's nothing to do once you reach level cap. You could grind fractals over and over and over and over and over and over again but I don't think anyone really wants to do that for years on end.

Then you have the living story stuff that doesn't add any meaningful lasting content to the game at all. Living Story is the number 1 reason why I stopped playing GW2. It just isn't fun.

The sad thing about GW2 is that players are returning to GW1. That should tell you something.

I got bored in GW2 cause there where only 5 Skills per Weapon, that couldn't even get changed.
In ESO, I can have only 6 Skills per Weapon as well, but I am free, what skills I am using.

The other point: PvE and PvP was no fun at all with no true Tanks and Healer.

The main reason I stopped playing Star Trek Online was because the new content was focused around "grind some mini game to earn stuff to buy the new shiny ship and weapons." What's the point of a new ship if there's no where fun to fly it, or new enemies to fight with it?

Iluvrien wrote: »

Anastasia wrote: »

So Crafters, even though Crafting was foretold to always be relevant, heh, but it may, it may not. Don't think that can't/won't be changed while 'splaining' it away very charmingly.

Just have to wait and see, then make your decisions about subbing or continuing to sub. You're not going to get forward info which might make you 'pull out... (early?')

You see, now this I just don't get.

Surely if you have information about a system that might cause a loss of subs (and therefore revenue) then surely the best idea would be to publicise it. After all, if you tell the playerbase about it and then the forums explode then you have a chance to, perhaps, reconsider some aspects of it so that you don't lose those subs... or at least not as many.

The approach in your post is decidedly short-term based. It assumes that the subs will be lost once the system goes in. Whereas the suggestion in my previous paragraph offers a way that the damage could be lessened, or even prevented from occurring at all.

There are enough threads on the forums at the moment, and probably on reddit etc., dealing with various parts of the revelations about Update 3 from the Quakecon presentation and subsequent blog post to suggest that this is a viable approach. Feedback is being given in response to these ideas. Why not expect that they would continue the process?

---

Yea. Like they did with Vet+ content eh? Maybe that is why. I do not agree in any way shape or form, but it is definitely they way they handle things. I wish your reasonable and logical representation of these issues were a guideline that ZOS followed. I respect a company that sticks to core elements originally envisioned and marketed, with reasonable variations, adjustments and additions, not core elements that are deleted.

I consider Vet+ content not receiving additional grouping e x p, better loot or other group-centric motivators and instead of being diluted as being a move that directly affects endame and the players who arrive there in a state of ill preparedness to be a consequence of the Vet content nerf.

Grouping in the vet levels is an element that was in fact promoted and advertised to veteran MMO PvE'rs in order to be attractive to those potential subscribers. Heres an example: how would PvP'rs feel if the PvE players currently demanding a PvE soft area be activated inside Cyrodill were to be changed by ZOS?

I'm thinking there would be a feeling of w-t-h, and why and how does that affect our PvP content? Same questions I still ask regarding the Vet+ content nerf.

Alphashado wrote: »

The carrot on the end of the stick is what keeps people subbed. So the seasonal gear is a good thing.

Plus they are going to make the gear from the previous season easy to get. So you will never be too far behind with a little effort. I think it's a good idea. Decisions like this indicate that zos is learning from their mistakes. They are finally taking a look around and implementing concepts that are proven to be successful.

Revolutionary ideas are fine, but sometimes it's just smart to stick with what works. And gear treadmills keep people entertained and driven for years.

It might keep some subbed, but it will drive others away it is not so one sided