Season Gear please dont

Lawmanus

Heard in a pod cast the other day, that you guys are planing to make season gear, that will be better and better for each season. please dont make another gear tradmill mmo i really liked the gear is just gear approche you startet out with.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

If they do the gear treadmill with must have up grades every 3 or 4 months, ESO will lose alot of subs over the course of a year because people just can't keep up and will get frustrated.

Mr.Turtlesworth

hmm idk I sorta like gear grinds in a way... But they kinda completely suck in another way.

Arsenic_Touch

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

If they do the gear treadmill with must have up grades every 3 or 4 months, ESO will lose alot of subs over the course of a year because people just can't keep up and will get frustaited.

they'll lose more keeping everything the same. If you think the current system promotes longevity, I got a bridge for sale.

They already said that previous gear will be immediately available for in game currency so players can essentially catch up. So there's no reason to fret just yet.

The only disparity would occur in season 1, where players would fall behind the "leet" players, but once season 2 rolls around you'll be able to catch up with the previous season and be on equal footing with the current season.

Samadhi

I comprehend that they have plans in place to make previous seasons of gear more available.
I still don't like the idea of seasonal gears though.

I like that the sets that I have dedicated time to research and craft mean something because of it.

kitsinni

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

If they do the gear treadmill with must have up grades every 3 or 4 months, ESO will lose alot of subs over the course of a year because people just can't keep up and will get frustrated.

If they don't they will lose a lot more because top level is currently extremely boring and there is nothing at all to do. Eventually you have rolled all four classes as alts and you are just standing there.

kitsinni

Put it this way I have been running dungeons for the sets that only drop in dungeons and I don't even plan to ever wear them just because it is something to try to get.

BBSooner

I like feeling like my character is progressing/growing, and a gear treadmill does just that. Sitting at stagnant stats for months would bore me.

Armitas

I hate seasons too but I think they become necessary because once pvp rank reaches a certain level the progress to the next rank takes an extraordinarily long period of time. That length of time may leave someone with a feeling of repetition or stagnation without progress. Seasons help keep things fresh by lowering a players focus to an interim set of progresses that move along more quickly.

A few recommendations.

1) Don't make the season gear so good as to make them an immediate necessity. People should want it, but you don't want them to feel obligated to rush for it now or become obsolete.

2) Don't make too many seasons. If you make too many seasons then people will feel that they are arbitrarily made obsolete. You want them to feel like there is something cool to move into, rather than have them feel like they were just kicked off their chair and have to climb back up.

3) Do not make an unsustainable series of -x% player damage reductions. All this does is create a larger and larger gap between new players and veterans.

ItsGlaive

Samadhi wrote: »

I comprehend that they have plans in place to make previous seasons of gear more available.
I still don't like the idea of seasonal gears though.

I like that the sets that I have dedicated time to research and craft mean something because of it.

It was one of the few groaning moment I had reading the Quakecon stuff. It's basically content churn, same with the dailies (my other low point amongst all that good news).

They're naturally keen on having people log in regularly to game, so they seem to be falling into the usual mmo trap of repeatable grind - namely dailies and content gated by an ever expanding gear range.

Maximis_ESO

Lawmanus wrote: »

Heard in a pod cast the other day, that you guys are planing to make season gear, that will be better and better for each season. please dont make another gear tradmill mmo i really liked the gear is just gear approche you startet out with.

Please do the season gear.... great idea.

Maximis_ESO

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

Lawmanus wrote: »

Heard in a pod cast the other day, that you guys are planing to make season gear, that will be better and better for each season. please dont make another gear tradmill mmo i really liked the gear is just gear approche you startet out with.

Please do the season gear.... great idea.

On top of all that the game already have a gear treadmill in right now.... its called VR system..... with new content they increase ranks which in turn increases the stats of gear. This is already present.

kitsinni

If people don't want encounters that keep getting harder why do you even care about changing your gear ever? If you are not using better gear to beat harder encounters then just get the stuff that looks the best and you are fine. This is like the easiest solo game in history so what would you even need the best gear for if you don't want to do dungeons and raids?

dodgehopper_ESO

Xabien wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

I comprehend that they have plans in place to make previous seasons of gear more available.
I still don't like the idea of seasonal gears though.

I like that the sets that I have dedicated time to research and craft mean something because of it.

It was one of the few groaning moment I had reading the Quakecon stuff. It's basically content churn, same with the dailies (my other low point amongst all that good news).

They're naturally keen on having people log in regularly to game, so they seem to be falling into the usual mmo trap of repeatable grind - namely dailies and content gated by an ever expanding gear range.

I concur, I really do not like dailies. I like being able to play like hell on a weekend, and catch up to someone who played little blips all week. This is meant as fun, as a pastime, and making it a daily just makes it work. (Which I made add an MMO should not be). Achievement is still good, but the more a game starts to feel like a job, the less it is fun honestly.

pitdemon_ESO

Armitas wrote: »

I hate seasons too but I think they become necessary because once pvp rank reaches a certain level the progress to the next rank takes an extraordinarily long period of time. That length of time may leave someone with a feeling of repetition or stagnation without progress. Seasons help keep things fresh by lowering a players focus to an interim set of progresses that move along more quickly.

PvP rank means something? Since when???

EliteZ

This is a very needed feature, without anything to continue working towards, the game will end for the MMO players that like some kind of treadmill to keep us coming back. The game just can't last without something to keep you logging on every day to work towards some kind of reward.

Anyway, in that very same pod cast, they also explained that once a season is no longer the "top season" it will be very easy to obtain in game. So for players that don't manage to get that season in time, will only ever be one season behind unlike most games where it'll take weeks/months to catch up again.

I for one can't wait for some kind of gear progression.

Arsenic_Touch

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I hate seasons too but I think they become necessary because once pvp rank reaches a certain level the progress to the next rank takes an extraordinarily long period of time. That length of time may leave someone with a feeling of repetition or stagnation without progress. Seasons help keep things fresh by lowering a players focus to an interim set of progresses that move along more quickly.

PvP rank means something? Since when???

It's be great if you earned more AP based on the rank you killed.

kieso

kitsinni wrote: »

If people don't want encounters that keep getting harder why do you even care about changing your gear ever? If you are not using better gear to beat harder encounters then just get the stuff that looks the best and you are fine. This is like the easiest solo game in history so what would you even need the best gear for if you don't want to do dungeons and raids?

People like to be on an even footing in PVP. Been playing MMO's since UO killed/ganked whatever more people that i can ever hope to count and I like my enemies to be equally geared and tough to fight. Nothing worse than steam rolling people because they don't raid/do dungeons.

Armitas

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I hate seasons too but I think they become necessary because once pvp rank reaches a certain level the progress to the next rank takes an extraordinarily long period of time. That length of time may leave someone with a feeling of repetition or stagnation without progress. Seasons help keep things fresh by lowering a players focus to an interim set of progresses that move along more quickly.

PvP rank means something? Since when???

You get a skill point at each rank.

Jaxom

EliteZ wrote: »

This is a very needed feature, without anything to continue working towards, the game will end for the MMO players that like some kind of treadmill to keep us coming back. The game just can't last without something to keep you logging on every day to work towards some kind of reward.

Anyway, in that very same pod cast, they also explained that once a season is no longer the "top season" it will be very easy to obtain in game. So for players that don't manage to get that season in time, will only ever be one season behind unlike most games where it'll take weeks/months to catch up again.

I for am can't wait for some kind of gear progression.

I agree. This is actually a fairly clever way to introduce a gear treadmill without completely screwing over people who join the game 6 months or a year later. At the most you will be 1 season behind at any given point which is fine by me. This gives the cutting edge of players an incentive to be in the current season and that little bit of advantage while doesnt make the rest of the crowd so far behind they just give up and quit like many games out there.

As long as they implement it the way we are understanding it, I'm all for it and think it's a direction more MMO's should take.

c0rp

People that are QQing didnt even hear what Paul said. He said that when a season transitions over, the old season gear with be easily gotten, so that people are not left behind. I dont know how much more clearer he could have made it. I think this system fits ESO prefectly for what it is striving to be.

Lord_Hev

I dread this. I like to find a style and then stick with it. Suddenly having to "dress up" in order to... increase my strength? Sounds stupid to me. Like, suddenly this is dress-up barbie doll adventure or something.


Is it so much to ask for creative horizontal progression instead? I figured the Champion system was a step in this direction. But, sigh.

lathbury

What will be the point of crafting then?

Lawmanus

Its not so much how easy or hard it is to get, its more that i dislike the constant chase for gear. I spend 4 years in wow as a raider and 5 years in AoC raiding and hunting gear, in the long run it gets tiresome, thats why i chose to move on to Eso. It seem like a new way of playing for the fun of Things, to beat the challenges with out being on that constant hunt to get that last item to complete your new set. Much like playing a football match with some friends in the summer you dont get a trophy, but you do it cus its fun and bragging rights ofc .

Jaxom

Lawmanus wrote: »

Its not so much how easy or hard it is to get, its more that i dislike the constant chase for gear. I spend 4 years in wow as a raider and 5 years in AoC raiding and hunting gear, in the long run it gets tiresome, thats why i chose to move on to Eso. It seem like a new way of playing for the fun of Things, to beat the challenges with out being on that constant hunt to get that last item to complete your new set. Much like playing a football match with some friends in the summer you dont get a trophy, but you do it cus its fun and bragging rights ofc .

The problem remains that without something to strive towards, the game becomes stale. Horizontal progression sounds nice in theory, but once you are at cap, you dont feel your character progressing. GW2 is a perfect example. You could pretty much max your character out in the first month and there was nothing else strive towards except World PvP and more skins.

The thing here is a nice balance of vertical and horizontal progression. My guess is that the Seasons will have a bit of both. The armor values may remain the same but there may be interesting Gear Sets introduced. So your power isnt increase substantially but you have a goal to get new sets. Combine this with the Champion System (vertical progression), you can keep people for a much longer time.

kieso

Jaxom wrote: »

Lawmanus wrote: »

Its not so much how easy or hard it is to get, its more that i dislike the constant chase for gear. I spend 4 years in wow as a raider and 5 years in AoC raiding and hunting gear, in the long run it gets tiresome, thats why i chose to move on to Eso. It seem like a new way of playing for the fun of Things, to beat the challenges with out being on that constant hunt to get that last item to complete your new set. Much like playing a football match with some friends in the summer you dont get a trophy, but you do it cus its fun and bragging rights ofc .

The problem remains that without something to strive towards, the game becomes stale. Horizontal progression sounds nice in theory, but once you are at cap, you dont feel your character progressing. GW2 is a perfect example. You could pretty much max your character out in the first month and there was nothing else strive towards except World PvP and more skins.

The thing here is a nice balance of vertical and horizontal progression. My guess is that the Seasons will have a bit of both. The armor values may remain the same but there may be interesting Gear Sets introduced. So your power isnt increase substantially but you have a goal to get new sets. Combine this with the Champion System (vertical progression), you can keep people for a much longer time.

GW2 isnt a failure by any means though...

Jaxom

kieso wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

Lawmanus wrote: »

Its not so much how easy or hard it is to get, its more that i dislike the constant chase for gear. I spend 4 years in wow as a raider and 5 years in AoC raiding and hunting gear, in the long run it gets tiresome, thats why i chose to move on to Eso. It seem like a new way of playing for the fun of Things, to beat the challenges with out being on that constant hunt to get that last item to complete your new set. Much like playing a football match with some friends in the summer you dont get a trophy, but you do it cus its fun and bragging rights ofc .

The problem remains that without something to strive towards, the game becomes stale. Horizontal progression sounds nice in theory, but once you are at cap, you dont feel your character progressing. GW2 is a perfect example. You could pretty much max your character out in the first month and there was nothing else strive towards except World PvP and more skins.

The thing here is a nice balance of vertical and horizontal progression. My guess is that the Seasons will have a bit of both. The armor values may remain the same but there may be interesting Gear Sets introduced. So your power isnt increase substantially but you have a goal to get new sets. Combine this with the Champion System (vertical progression), you can keep people for a much longer time.

GW2 isnt a failure by any means though...

I didnt say it was a failure. I was just using it as an example to illustrate my point. You need a balance of the two (vertical and horizontal progression) to keep the maximum number of people playing your game. GW2 is an extreme of Horizontal, while WoW is an extreme of Vertical. I think this system will balance the two.

Iluvrien

lathbury wrote: »

What will be the point of crafting then?

I watched the entirity of the Quakecon presentation... and... ^This.

If equipment will be based on a seasonal treadmill and, even worse, the previous season's gear will be purchasable (they seemed to suggest for in-game gold) then where are the crafters in all of this? Merely upgrading it?

Definitely something to make you glad you invested the time into mastering those crafts...

frwinters_ESO

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

If they do the gear treadmill with must have up grades every 3 or 4 months, ESO will lose alot of subs over the course of a year because people just can't keep up and will get frustaited.

they'll lose more keeping everything the same. If you think the current system promotes longevity, I got a bridge for sale.

They already said that previous gear will be immediately available for in game currency so players can essentially catch up. So there's no reason to fret just yet.

The only disparity would occur in season 1, where players would fall behind the "leet" players, but once season 2 rolls around you'll be able to catch up with the previous season and be on equal footing with the current season.

I always wanted a bridge

Jaxom

Iluvrien wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

What will be the point of crafting then?

I watched the entirity of the Quakecon presentation... and... ^This.

If equipment will be based on a seasonal treadmill and, even worse, the previous season's gear will be purchasable (they seemed to suggest for in-game gold) then where are the crafters in all of this? Merely upgrading it?

Definitely something to make you glad you invested the time into mastering those crafts...

They could make 8-trait sets craftable of the current season only. This would make 8-trait crafters highly sought after since with the current sets, they 8-traits are a bit lackluster. We are assuming that these sets are going to be drops only.

This is potentially awesome for crafters. Every new season, you would have the ability to craft new 6 and 8 trait sets of that season for people.

Arsenic_Touch

kieso wrote: »

GW2 isnt a failure by any means though...

Haha....