I am gonna throw around a few questions to different types of players in ESO. You may or may not agree/dont give a damn.
If YOU try what I suggest, please feedback here to what your reaction was.
PvE players, Solo
Have you tried grouping with 1 person? Have explored zones like Cyrodiil?
Even though you may not like other people, just grouping with 1 person, WILL make you able to overcome events you could not alone. You may find a friend also.
Dungeon player
Have you explored a zone without a map? Have you found a wierd skull, inscribed "Wish I didn't attack that bear" on it? Have you found Side Quests you never heard of?
What is your take on this new "hard" level settings on all dungeons? Harder encounter, but better exp and loot.
Explorer
Have you tried a dungeon group, without waiting for a group tool, to put you in one? Have you been in a dungeon group...it sucked, and you never go into one again? Do you bring friends on your explore?
TL;DR
- ZOS should allow us to buy race changes or racial passive changes (whole set, not pick and choose)
- Why I thought melee crit khajit sorc would work
- Why it didn't work
- It is a win-win for everyone. More money for ZOS. More happy players.
- Racial passives are not irrelevant
[...]Not to mention crit builds in PVP are obsolete with the overpowered Impenetrable trait on armor.
Also, someone in the thread mentioned a lore reasons....In Greenshade, there's an Alchemist who (accidentally) turns himself - a dark elf or some such thing - into an Argonian. He was trying to become a khajiit, but got the potion wrong and ended up an Argonian instead. So, it's possible lore-wise I suppose.
lol, lots of unhappy cats here. I suspect people would be a lot happier with Khajiit if only the Khajiit textures were better, like they were in Skyrim.killedbyping wrote: »Shut up and take my money !
Would love to buy race change aswell. Dat Khajiit just doesnt fit for NB Warlock build... Who knows that medium armor build wouldnt work on stages above level 25...
letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
So funny how upset people get about something that wouldn't affect them at all. Close a topic because you don't like it? Egomaniac or something right there.
letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
Well, clarify something for me . Lets say I have a Breton templar. I put 200hrs of play time building this character but then decide I want to be an argonian .. I have sunk a dozen skill points into my races skill line (light armor affinity, gift of magnus,letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
lol, lots of unhappy cats here. I suspect people would be a lot happier with Khajiit if only the Khajiit textures were better, like they were in Skyrim.killedbyping wrote: »Shut up and take my money !
Would love to buy race change aswell. Dat Khajiit just doesnt fit for NB Warlock build... Who knows that medium armor build wouldnt work on stages above level 25...
letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
Part of the reason many people say no is that the suggested race changes include switching/transferring the passives of that race as well. Even if it is in a cash shop, many people feel that it will give an in-game advantage (however slight) simply because the passives give certain bonuses. This ties into people's common cash-shop principle where many believe the cash shop should be for cosmetic purposes only. If it was available with in-game gold then it wouldn't be much better.
The reason after that is mostly based on principle. That choice should matter blah blah blah...
It may be indirect, but it does affect other players in some way imo.
letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »Well, clarify something for me . Lets say I have a Breton templar. I put 200hrs of play time building this character but then decide I want to be an argonian .. I have sunk a dozen skill points into my races skill line (light armor affinity, gift of magnus,letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
spell resistance and magicka mastery ) but now those choices no longer exist. Do I now demand all the skill points too ? I mean I have put 200hrs of playing time into this character .. And racial motifs.. Does my templar now lose the ability to create in the Breton style unless I have that particular motif available ? Lets say I'm not one of the fortunate players whose characters can belong to any of the major factions... Does my templar now belong in the Ebonheart Pact, because up until now my templar was fighting for the Daggerfall Covenant .. What if I was grouped up with my friends who all are daggerfall people, Now I can no longer group up with them and terrorize daggerfall bosses? Or does my changing races automatically give me perks I didnt have before? Just curious ..
letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
Part of the reason many people say no is that the suggested race changes include switching/transferring the passives of that race as well. Even if it is in a cash shop, many people feel that it will give an in-game advantage (however slight) simply because the passives give certain bonuses. This ties into people's common cash-shop principle where many believe the cash shop should be for cosmetic purposes only. If it was available with in-game gold then it wouldn't be much better.
The reason after that is mostly based on principle. That choice should matter blah blah blah...
It may be indirect, but it does affect other players in some way imo.
I understand what you are getting at but I don't see how it can be considered pay-to-win when they are options available to us at character creation. The only way I see this being a problem is if all a sudden ZOS changed one race's passives to be much better than the others. Personally, I feel like all racial passives should be a bit more balanced. Especially with the climbing soft caps (on PTS right now) those races with 10% boosts to stam/magicka/hp are looking more and more powerful. I feel like like the best way to balance would be giving each race a 5% primary attribute boost, a 10% regen boost, and a special skill such as argonian potion boost, nord dmg reduction, khajit crit, dark elf fire resist, etc.letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »Well, clarify something for me . Lets say I have a Breton templar. I put 200hrs of play time building this character but then decide I want to be an argonian .. I have sunk a dozen skill points into my races skill line (light armor affinity, gift of magnus,letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
spell resistance and magicka mastery ) but now those choices no longer exist. Do I now demand all the skill points too ? I mean I have put 200hrs of playing time into this character .. And racial motifs.. Does my templar now lose the ability to create in the Breton style unless I have that particular motif available ? Lets say I'm not one of the fortunate players whose characters can belong to any of the major factions... Does my templar now belong in the Ebonheart Pact, because up until now my templar was fighting for the Daggerfall Covenant .. What if I was grouped up with my friends who all are daggerfall people, Now I can no longer group up with them and terrorize daggerfall bosses? Or does my changing races automatically give me perks I didnt have before? Just curious ..
If you swap race all skill points spent in your racial passives are returned to you. You no longer innately know your first race's motif. You can swap race to any race whether you have Imperial edition or not. Imperial additional was increased payment for racial freedom and that is exactly what a race change would do as well. Seems fair to me but I'm just theorizing here.
eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »They are making changes to STA builds so maybe you should just be patient and see where that goes. We have 8 character slots, if it was that big of a deal for you, I would think you would just say lesson learned time to start over. Getting to V6 isn't really that hard and you could do it again in a short amount of time. I am unhappy with my nightblade because I was expecting more from them. I am playing my sorcerer and dragonknight for the time being and loving it. Please don't think that I don't sympathize, I just don't think it's a good idea.
@eventide03b14a_ESO
But why is it a bad idea? In what way am I hurting you or hurting the game if I change my race?
Let me ask you this. Should we just start putting every option through a pay wall? Every time they make a change, to stats or to gear or to mechanics should I just drop $20 and change my race to "optimize" my character? I might be convinced that it's not a bad idea, but people do tend to find ways to exploit things. It sort of takes away the importance of your race when you just arbitrarily decide you want to be High Elf for a month and then decide you want to be an Imperial the next. You get benefits of a race for as long as you want until you decide to pay for a different race? Why not just let us change our classes by dropping some cash whenever we want? Honestly this seems like it's coming from some deep seated self-esteem problem where your epeen isn't as big as it could be.
Class change and race change are completely different animals. Racial skills are passives and are completely behind the scenes type things. Why would you care if someone wanted to change race every couple of months? You say people can exploit things but in no way explain how it could be exploited. Do you really care if player X decides to switch between high elf and imperial every couple of months because he wants to play magica focused or stamina focused? It does not effect you at all besides providing more cash flow for the gaming company that you want to succeed.
Lol at self esteem problems. I have three useless passives, and would like them changed.
I'm sorry I just don't agree with you and you don't have a very good argument aside from giving ZOS more money. We'll agree to disagree.
... and you have no argument at all.
I have given mine. I am done talking about this with you. Good luck.
eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
Part of the reason many people say no is that the suggested race changes include switching/transferring the passives of that race as well. Even if it is in a cash shop, many people feel that it will give an in-game advantage (however slight) simply because the passives give certain bonuses. This ties into people's common cash-shop principle where many believe the cash shop should be for cosmetic purposes only. If it was available with in-game gold then it wouldn't be much better.
The reason after that is mostly based on principle. That choice should matter blah blah blah...
It may be indirect, but it does affect other players in some way imo.
I understand what you are getting at but I don't see how it can be considered pay-to-win when they are options available to us at character creation. The only way I see this being a problem is if all a sudden ZOS changed one race's passives to be much better than the others. Personally, I feel like all racial passives should be a bit more balanced. Especially with the climbing soft caps (on PTS right now) those races with 10% boosts to stam/magicka/hp are looking more and more powerful. I feel like like the best way to balance would be giving each race a 5% primary attribute boost, a 10% regen boost, and a special skill such as argonian potion boost, nord dmg reduction, khajit crit, dark elf fire resist, etc.letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »Well, clarify something for me . Lets say I have a Breton templar. I put 200hrs of play time building this character but then decide I want to be an argonian .. I have sunk a dozen skill points into my races skill line (light armor affinity, gift of magnus,letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
spell resistance and magicka mastery ) but now those choices no longer exist. Do I now demand all the skill points too ? I mean I have put 200hrs of playing time into this character .. And racial motifs.. Does my templar now lose the ability to create in the Breton style unless I have that particular motif available ? Lets say I'm not one of the fortunate players whose characters can belong to any of the major factions... Does my templar now belong in the Ebonheart Pact, because up until now my templar was fighting for the Daggerfall Covenant .. What if I was grouped up with my friends who all are daggerfall people, Now I can no longer group up with them and terrorize daggerfall bosses? Or does my changing races automatically give me perks I didnt have before? Just curious ..
If you swap race all skill points spent in your racial passives are returned to you. You no longer innately know your first race's motif. You can swap race to any race whether you have Imperial edition or not. Imperial additional was increased payment for racial freedom and that is exactly what a race change would do as well. Seems fair to me but I'm just theorizing here.
Create a new character till they fix the stamina build. That's what I'm doing with my nightblade.
letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
Part of the reason many people say no is that the suggested race changes include switching/transferring the passives of that race as well. Even if it is in a cash shop, many people feel that it will give an in-game advantage (however slight) simply because the passives give certain bonuses. This ties into people's common cash-shop principle where many believe the cash shop should be for cosmetic purposes only. If it was available with in-game gold then it wouldn't be much better.
The reason after that is mostly based on principle. That choice should matter blah blah blah...
It may be indirect, but it does affect other players in some way imo.
I understand what you are getting at but I don't see how it can be considered pay-to-win when they are options available to us at character creation. The only way I see this being a problem is if all a sudden ZOS changed one race's passives to be much better than the others. Personally, I feel like all racial passives should be a bit more balanced. Especially with the climbing soft caps (on PTS right now) those races with 10% boosts to stam/magicka/hp are looking more and more powerful. I feel like like the best way to balance would be giving each race a 5% primary attribute boost, a 10% regen boost, and a special skill such as argonian potion boost, nord dmg reduction, khajit crit, dark elf fire resist, etc.letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »Well, clarify something for me . Lets say I have a Breton templar. I put 200hrs of play time building this character but then decide I want to be an argonian .. I have sunk a dozen skill points into my races skill line (light armor affinity, gift of magnus,letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
spell resistance and magicka mastery ) but now those choices no longer exist. Do I now demand all the skill points too ? I mean I have put 200hrs of playing time into this character .. And racial motifs.. Does my templar now lose the ability to create in the Breton style unless I have that particular motif available ? Lets say I'm not one of the fortunate players whose characters can belong to any of the major factions... Does my templar now belong in the Ebonheart Pact, because up until now my templar was fighting for the Daggerfall Covenant .. What if I was grouped up with my friends who all are daggerfall people, Now I can no longer group up with them and terrorize daggerfall bosses? Or does my changing races automatically give me perks I didnt have before? Just curious ..
If you swap race all skill points spent in your racial passives are returned to you. You no longer innately know your first race's motif. You can swap race to any race whether you have Imperial edition or not. Imperial additional was increased payment for racial freedom and that is exactly what a race change would do as well. Seems fair to me but I'm just theorizing here.
letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
Part of the reason many people say no is that the suggested race changes include switching/transferring the passives of that race as well. Even if it is in a cash shop, many people feel that it will give an in-game advantage (however slight) simply because the passives give certain bonuses. This ties into people's common cash-shop principle where many believe the cash shop should be for cosmetic purposes only. If it was available with in-game gold then it wouldn't be much better.
The reason after that is mostly based on principle. That choice should matter blah blah blah...
It may be indirect, but it does affect other players in some way imo.
I understand what you are getting at but I don't see how it can be considered pay-to-win when they are options available to us at character creation. The only way I see this being a problem is if all a sudden ZOS changed one race's passives to be much better than the others. Personally, I feel like all racial passives should be a bit more balanced. Especially with the climbing soft caps (on PTS right now) those races with 10% boosts to stam/magicka/hp are looking more and more powerful. I feel like like the best way to balance would be giving each race a 5% primary attribute boost, a 10% regen boost, and a special skill such as argonian potion boost, nord dmg reduction, khajit crit, dark elf fire resist, etc.letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »Well, clarify something for me . Lets say I have a Breton templar. I put 200hrs of play time building this character but then decide I want to be an argonian .. I have sunk a dozen skill points into my races skill line (light armor affinity, gift of magnus,letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
spell resistance and magicka mastery ) but now those choices no longer exist. Do I now demand all the skill points too ? I mean I have put 200hrs of playing time into this character .. And racial motifs.. Does my templar now lose the ability to create in the Breton style unless I have that particular motif available ? Lets say I'm not one of the fortunate players whose characters can belong to any of the major factions... Does my templar now belong in the Ebonheart Pact, because up until now my templar was fighting for the Daggerfall Covenant .. What if I was grouped up with my friends who all are daggerfall people, Now I can no longer group up with them and terrorize daggerfall bosses? Or does my changing races automatically give me perks I didnt have before? Just curious ..
If you swap race all skill points spent in your racial passives are returned to you. You no longer innately know your first race's motif. You can swap race to any race whether you have Imperial edition or not. Imperial additional was increased payment for racial freedom and that is exactly what a race change would do as well. Seems fair to me but I'm just theorizing here.
Then you have to consider, would it be unfair to others if skill points where returned? Whose to say they would be used for racial passives and not toward class,armor,guild or weapon skills etc.. Are others going to demand the ability to purchase skill point redistribution without having to go broke at the Shrine of Stendarr or Stuhn ? And the play any faction with any race bonus was a pre order bonus not an Emperial bonus.. It was part of the “Explorer Pack” bonus . So thats just a kick in the teeth to everyone who shelled out the big bucks for exclusive content, that now some seem to think should be available to anyone with a 20 in their wallet...
letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
Part of the reason many people say no is that the suggested race changes include switching/transferring the passives of that race as well. Even if it is in a cash shop, many people feel that it will give an in-game advantage (however slight) simply because the passives give certain bonuses. This ties into people's common cash-shop principle where many believe the cash shop should be for cosmetic purposes only. If it was available with in-game gold then it wouldn't be much better.
The reason after that is mostly based on principle. That choice should matter blah blah blah...
It may be indirect, but it does affect other players in some way imo.
I understand what you are getting at but I don't see how it can be considered pay-to-win when they are options available to us at character creation. The only way I see this being a problem is if all a sudden ZOS changed one race's passives to be much better than the others. Personally, I feel like all racial passives should be a bit more balanced. Especially with the climbing soft caps (on PTS right now) those races with 10% boosts to stam/magicka/hp are looking more and more powerful. I feel like like the best way to balance would be giving each race a 5% primary attribute boost, a 10% regen boost, and a special skill such as argonian potion boost, nord dmg reduction, khajit crit, dark elf fire resist, etc.letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »Well, clarify something for me . Lets say I have a Breton templar. I put 200hrs of play time building this character but then decide I want to be an argonian .. I have sunk a dozen skill points into my races skill line (light armor affinity, gift of magnus,letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
spell resistance and magicka mastery ) but now those choices no longer exist. Do I now demand all the skill points too ? I mean I have put 200hrs of playing time into this character .. And racial motifs.. Does my templar now lose the ability to create in the Breton style unless I have that particular motif available ? Lets say I'm not one of the fortunate players whose characters can belong to any of the major factions... Does my templar now belong in the Ebonheart Pact, because up until now my templar was fighting for the Daggerfall Covenant .. What if I was grouped up with my friends who all are daggerfall people, Now I can no longer group up with them and terrorize daggerfall bosses? Or does my changing races automatically give me perks I didnt have before? Just curious ..
If you swap race all skill points spent in your racial passives are returned to you. You no longer innately know your first race's motif. You can swap race to any race whether you have Imperial edition or not. Imperial additional was increased payment for racial freedom and that is exactly what a race change would do as well. Seems fair to me but I'm just theorizing here.
Then you have to consider, would it be unfair to others if skill points where returned? Whose to say they would be used for racial passives and not toward class,armor,guild or weapon skills etc.. Are others going to demand the ability to purchase skill point redistribution without having to go broke at the Shrine of Stendarr or Stuhn ? And the play any faction with any race bonus was a pre order bonus not an Emperial bonus.. It was part of the “Explorer Pack” bonus . So thats just a kick in the teeth to everyone who shelled out the big bucks for exclusive content, that now some seem to think should be available to anyone with a 20 in their wallet...
All valid concerns but I just don't personally see people being up in arms over 9 skill points returned (hey they can just transfer them to the other races passives if this was an issue anyways) for 20$.
As for the Imperial bonus ... I still think it has value because you can always create any race in any faction. Race change is a one time 20$ thing. If the only thing holding up them giving us race changes was that it would devalue the Imperial Edition, I'm all for only allowing us to change within our faction.
Seems to me a lot of people rolled Khajit because they saw that racial crit bonus and over estimated how useful it would be. So you made a mistake and you want a system that negates that mistake. With the current state of mage builds you all want to what? Change your race to a caster friendly race? Then what, two months from now change it again because the pendulum swings in another direction? Almost as bad as those wanting class changes so they can always be the FotM.
eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
Part of the reason many people say no is that the suggested race changes include switching/transferring the passives of that race as well. Even if it is in a cash shop, many people feel that it will give an in-game advantage (however slight) simply because the passives give certain bonuses. This ties into people's common cash-shop principle where many believe the cash shop should be for cosmetic purposes only. If it was available with in-game gold then it wouldn't be much better.
The reason after that is mostly based on principle. That choice should matter blah blah blah...
It may be indirect, but it does affect other players in some way imo.
I understand what you are getting at but I don't see how it can be considered pay-to-win when they are options available to us at character creation. The only way I see this being a problem is if all a sudden ZOS changed one race's passives to be much better than the others. Personally, I feel like all racial passives should be a bit more balanced. Especially with the climbing soft caps (on PTS right now) those races with 10% boosts to stam/magicka/hp are looking more and more powerful. I feel like like the best way to balance would be giving each race a 5% primary attribute boost, a 10% regen boost, and a special skill such as argonian potion boost, nord dmg reduction, khajit crit, dark elf fire resist, etc.letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »Well, clarify something for me . Lets say I have a Breton templar. I put 200hrs of play time building this character but then decide I want to be an argonian .. I have sunk a dozen skill points into my races skill line (light armor affinity, gift of magnus,letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »no... next problem
But why? How would it affect you if someone else chose to give ZOS money to change their race? All I see is benefit for everyone.
spell resistance and magicka mastery ) but now those choices no longer exist. Do I now demand all the skill points too ? I mean I have put 200hrs of playing time into this character .. And racial motifs.. Does my templar now lose the ability to create in the Breton style unless I have that particular motif available ? Lets say I'm not one of the fortunate players whose characters can belong to any of the major factions... Does my templar now belong in the Ebonheart Pact, because up until now my templar was fighting for the Daggerfall Covenant .. What if I was grouped up with my friends who all are daggerfall people, Now I can no longer group up with them and terrorize daggerfall bosses? Or does my changing races automatically give me perks I didnt have before? Just curious ..
If you swap race all skill points spent in your racial passives are returned to you. You no longer innately know your first race's motif. You can swap race to any race whether you have Imperial edition or not. Imperial additional was increased payment for racial freedom and that is exactly what a race change would do as well. Seems fair to me but I'm just theorizing here.
Then you have to consider, would it be unfair to others if skill points where returned? Whose to say they would be used for racial passives and not toward class,armor,guild or weapon skills etc.. Are others going to demand the ability to purchase skill point redistribution without having to go broke at the Shrine of Stendarr or Stuhn ? And the play any faction with any race bonus was a pre order bonus not an Emperial bonus.. It was part of the “Explorer Pack” bonus . So thats just a kick in the teeth to everyone who shelled out the big bucks for exclusive content, that now some seem to think should be available to anyone with a 20 in their wallet...
All valid concerns but I just don't personally see people being up in arms over 9 skill points returned (hey they can just transfer them to the other races passives if this was an issue anyways) for 20$.
As for the Imperial bonus ... I still think it has value because you can always create any race in any faction. Race change is a one time 20$ thing. If the only thing holding up them giving us race changes was that it would devalue the Imperial Edition, I'm all for only allowing us to change within our faction.
People are overwhelming not in favor of this. I think everyone has made their point and it's just time to move on from this topic. It's just not going to happen, and it's good that it won't. You do have 8 character slots. I'm sure you could make a Breton sorcerer or whatever combination you want.