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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
No AH (Auction House) = crap
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In a game centered around crafters, and by that I mean the gear comes from them, the developers cant bone the crafters. There needs to be compensation for Crafters and all the time/gold it took to reach top tier.
They need to add more crafted sets that favour spell crit for a start, right now with 3.1 they will favour stamina builds, which makes crafted sets far less useful for most of us.
Not true. Yes, they took most spell crit away on standard sets, but you can get 8% just from 3 pieces of trial gear.
And, since stamina DPS is SO bad in comparison, you will be invited to do trials plenty enough to get that in a day or two.
Stamina still gets the shaft. A shorter, less splintery shaft, but a shaft none the less.Edited by Phinix1 on July 16, 2014 5:54AM2 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'll spare all the quoting of the really long post about China and whatever...
Let's assume the people of Tamriel don't have the internet for Amazon and Walmart, would it at least be fair to have an official trading post in each zone, maybe located in the large cities, where members could go and list their items for sale. Deposit them and set a price, or whatever, so other players could purchase them? Maybe have a deposit limit or whatever. And for even more immersion, they would physically have to go to that location to collect their money, or maybe just to add or buy stuff and the gold can be delivered by a messenger or whatever. Anything that helps people trade without the need to spam chat would be good, in my opinion.
Seriously, I have a Breton motif I don't need, and I don't even want to try to sell it because the idea of spamming the zone chat is incredibly awkward. Some kind of location to sell our items would be nice. And before anyone says trade guild, no thanks. I rather spam zone chat.
Just to make you happy, I have previously announced my support for Trade Zones in previous AH related threads.
I think adjusting some of the current features would make players happier and make up for the lack of an AH. These include
- Better inventory management
- Better Guild store UI and search functions
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Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Blackwidow wrote: »
That is just a complicated global AH, but I would even take an antiquated idea like that over guild stores.
BTW, do you remember the horrid lag back then in the bazaar with so many players all in one room?
I guess we can test that megaserver player load now.
Dude, come on. That was what....2002? I think technology has come a way since then.
I know. I said we can now test the megaserver.
I meant that.0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »
They need to add more crafted sets that favour spell crit for a start, right now with 3.1 they will favour stamina builds, which makes crafted sets far less useful for most of us.
Not true. Yes, they took most spell crit away on standard sets, but you can get 8% just from 3 pieces of trial gear.
What do you mean not true (when I am talking about crafted gear), then go on to talk about getting spell crit from dropped gear...2 -
Wolfshead✭✭✭✭JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »That's how they envisioned the game, not only that a global AH would remove player interaction.
What now if i buy something from other player or sell thing to other player i send CC mail to i have never meet those people i have done business in game other then send whisper back and for that is about it so what player interaction are you talk about???
If you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already deadWhat we do in life, echoes in eternity0 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »That's how they envisioned the game, not only that a global AH would remove player interaction.
What now if i buy something from other player or sell thing to other player i send CC mail to i have never meet those people i have done business in game other then send whisper back and for that is about it so what player interaction are you talk about???
Let me translate for you....
.... a global AH would remove player interaction any chance to rip people off with unbelievably high prices.2 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Blackwidow wrote: »
Yes, stacks of 100 common materials will sell for 400 on the AH. I agree.
You will never see 100 deadra hearts or tomatoes for 400 gold on the AH.
Yeah but I don't care about those items. The rare items like Oats and Tomatoes are always going to be high prices because they are used in consumables and are only available by means of hirelings (not from decon).
I think I understand our clash now
I am worried about the effect the AH would have on the crafters in the game...not the provisioners and alchemists. I mean specifically the armor and weapon crafters because their items are not consumed. Yes the deadra hearts will always be rare (unless drop rate is changed) but they are not *needed* to craft high end gear. I am talking about an auction house where everyone has all their end game legendary armor/weapons listed because the non stop 401g stacks of raw materials made it possible to put 10,000 pieces of Legendary Helmets on the Auction House.
It needs to be a consumable for that to be a truly an epic experience.
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Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Blackwidow wrote: »Yes, some people use gold farmers to get gold, but all that gold, every coin, came from in the game.
By the way, I do not know if Zenimax got it all but months ago there was a gold dupe that involved guild banks that put millions of gold into circulation. Not a legitimate acquisition from the game...
Granted probably less than 10% of the population exploited this dupe, but it was posted publicly on ownedcore and some other well known exploit sites.0 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Blackwidow wrote: »
Yes, stacks of 100 common materials will sell for 400 on the AH. I agree.
You will never see 100 deadra hearts or tomatoes for 400 gold on the AH.
Yeah but I don't care about those items. The rare items like Oats and Tomatoes are always going to be high prices because they are used in consumables and are only available by means of hirelings (not from decon).
I think I understand our clash now
I am worried about the effect the AH would have on the crafters in the game...not the provisioners and alchemists. I mean specifically the armor and weapon crafters because their items are not consumed. Yes the deadra hearts will always be rare (unless drop rate is changed) but they are not *needed* to craft high end gear. I am talking about an auction house where everyone has all their end game legendary armor/weapons listed because the non stop 401g stacks of raw materials made it possible to put 10,000 pieces of Legendary Helmets on the Auction House.
It needs to be a consumable for that to be a truly an epic experience.
But, we still need yellow craft items to make yellow armor and they are still rare, right?0 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Blackwidow wrote: »
.... a global AH would remove player interaction any chance to rip people off with unbelievably high prices.
You just said to me you don't want a game created around cheaters...Soooo...oh nevermind. You silly AH cheer leaders!
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Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Blackwidow wrote: »
.... a global AH would remove player interaction any chance to rip people off with unbelievably high prices.
You just said to me you don't want a game created around cheaters...Soooo...oh nevermind. You silly AH cheer leaders!
You missed a step in the conversation.
I was saying others were saying that, not me.
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Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Blackwidow wrote: »Yes, some people use gold farmers to get gold, but all that gold, every coin, came from in the game.
By the way, I do not know if Zenimax got it all but months ago there was a gold dupe that involved guild banks that put millions of gold into circulation. Not a legitimate acquisition from the game...
Granted probably less than 10% of the population exploited this dupe, but it was posted publicly on ownedcore and some other well known exploit sites.
Yes, that does suck and i hope ZOS got most of the gold and the cheaters expelled.0 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Blackwidow wrote: »But, we still need yellow craft items to make yellow armor and they are still rare, right?
Well rare is a loose word in this. Yes, but when players have a lot of gold to spend and the raw mats are only 401g per stack...they're suddenly a bit more available. Right now, it's not an easy task to purchase say 200 stacks of spidersilk in one sitting. With an AH, I could do that in 10 minutes. We still have a problem with botters and farmers using 3rd party software to collect raw materials. They're currently deconstructing these raw materials for purple and yellow crafting mats because it's easier to move those than thousands of stacks of raw materials. There would probably be a stabilizing point where decon'ing the raw materials would be more economical than selling the stacks of raw materials...I honestly don't know.
We currently don't have enough armor sets (Staff and dress is the way to go right now), players have too much gold to spend, and there currently aren't enough gold sinks. I honestly think an AH would be Hell for armor/weapon crafters right now.0 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Blackwidow wrote: »But, we still need yellow craft items to make yellow armor and they are still rare, right?
Well rare is a loose word in this. Yes, but when players have a lot of gold to spend and the raw mats are only 401g per stack...they're suddenly a bit more available.
But, we both agreed that rare mats would not go for 400 a stack, yes?Right now, it's not an easy task to purchase say 200 stacks of spidersilk in one sitting. With an AH, I could do that in 10 minutes. We still have a problem with botters and farmers using 3rd party software to collect raw materials. They're currently deconstructing these raw materials for purple and yellow crafting mats because it's easier to move those than thousands of stacks of raw materials.
But, an AH would not change that. We have that now.
Items being put into the game are not going to be collected any faster with an AH.
So, rare will still be rare.1 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭You know, what the hell. Not that it matters. What is there to spend gold on in this game anyway? Every character is capable of being 100% self sufficient.2 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭Blackwidow wrote: »But, we still need yellow craft items to make yellow armor and they are still rare, right?
Well rare is a loose word in this. Yes, but when players have a lot of gold to spend and the raw mats are only 401g per stack...they're suddenly a bit more available. Right now, it's not an easy task to purchase say 200 stacks of spidersilk in one sitting. With an AH, I could do that in 10 minutes. We still have a problem with botters and farmers using 3rd party software to collect raw materials. They're currently deconstructing these raw materials for purple and yellow crafting mats because it's easier to move those than thousands of stacks of raw materials. There would probably be a stabilizing point where decon'ing the raw materials would be more economical than selling the stacks of raw materials...I honestly don't know.
We currently don't have enough armor sets (Staff and dress is the way to go right now), players have too much gold to spend, and there currently aren't enough gold sinks. I honestly think an AH would be Hell for armor/weapon crafters right now.
I don't even bother to sell lower level materials like Spidersilk or Rawhide. Those items don't sell fast enough because most players accumulate enough to craft their own gear while questing. Better to use the 30 slots that you have in the guild store for items that have a better chance of being sold. I refine for mats and wind up vendoring the stacks of the material so it doesn't waste bag or bank space.
I haven't seen botters since late May-early June. Where are these botters operating? I do see players farming in Craglorn but farming for mats is what you're supposed to do in an mmo.0 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Age doesn't invalidate a valid complaint .. and in the case of an AH, age proves the point, guilds are dying and the economy with it.frwinters_ESO wrote: »This is an old rant.
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Except that EVE doesn't have a global AH; it has regional markets. They also don't mail your stuff to you; you have to move it to where you want to sell it, and the buyer has to move it from where it was sold to where he needs it, all subject to PVP attack.Oh and on a slightly different note not.
The most successful, dynamic economy in an MMO is EVE Online.
Which BTW is a global AH on a mega-server !
Learn to EVE.
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Mordria✭✭✭✭diamondeyethunderbow_ESO wrote: »
Except that EVE doesn't have a global AH; it has regional markets. They also don't mail your stuff to you; you have to move it to where you want to sell it, and the buyer has to move it from where it was sold to where he needs it, all subject to PVP attack.Oh and on a slightly different note not.
The most successful, dynamic economy in an MMO is EVE Online.
Which BTW is a global AH on a mega-server !
Learn to EVE.
Yeah!
Anyway...
We do not need auction houses. The way it's set up, if you join 5 thriving guilds, is very good. it keeps the markets competitive and prevents the things you want to sell from being worthless. Besides, they aren't going to change it so Edited by Mordria on July 16, 2014 11:13AM3 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭As with every MMO I have played my first goal was to become totally self sufficient but I think it is particularly important in this game because of the restrictions of the guild store system. As the game matures more and more people will realize this and also start to work towards self sufficiency. And there ends the game economy.1
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Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Age doesn't invalidate a valid complaint .. and in the case of an AH, age proves the point, guilds are dying and the economy with it.frwinters_ESO wrote: »This is an old rant.
You are correct that the "age", or experience in a subject, history of events and business is a very valid point, to take into account in any view.
Even more important is simple, plain, FACTS.
You're statement that guilds are dying and economy with it, is your opinion.
Stating it as a fact, is something only Zenimax can do. No one else..
It may be your experience, but it can not the facts, because anyone outside Zenimax are UNABLE to get those facts.
To state your facts as true
Feel free to supply the sources of FACTS about ESO, that ALL guilds overall are "dying" and the economy is going down.
If you do this, then we can believe you. Right now, your statements are not facts. Anything else then current ESO DATA, is only speculations.
Real facts about ESO
ONLY Zenimax can supply logs, data and statistics of guild activity, Zone chat and player activity. As well as new and current players in ESO.
My experience in ESO, who plays a lot, is that I see guilds growing, Zone chat "spamming" and newbie zones with "new players".
NOTE: We are deep in the low activity point of ALL MMO. Mid July - mid August. ALL MMO gets a lower activity. WoW for example lost a few MILLIONS (Who very possibly will return in a month).
Even if I see ESO growing, I can not state for a FACT, anything about ESO is "dying" or "growing". I can only state my view, based on what I as a player, see in game.
Please separate opinions with facts.Edited by Cogo on July 16, 2014 5:53PMOghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"3 -
The undercutting argument is silly.
If i. e. 10 people undercut each other, price will sink by 10g for example, but in the same time, 10 people buy the stacks, so the price will be like it was.
Saying a stack would cost 401g, is even more silly, because seriously, who'd even wait to get his 1g benefit if it comes with the extra work of selling things via the auction house.
Botters and everything should be let out of the discussion, because those methods of gaining materials are illegal, and going against them is Zenimax duty, and should not be considered by us.
As far as I see it, some people are simply having doubts that are completely irrational, and the fear of Zenimax is forcing players to spend whole days on searching specific equipment.
Remember: It's no achievement, that you sat 8h in front of the PC, and repeated the same "WTB XY" sentence over and over. The achievement is, that you made the gold, or farmed the item directly, one needing to search hours after hours is boring, and requires no skill at all.Noricum
Thx to Giny, Sarana, Thaili, Derra, Cherahim, Gloy, Raweelz and Drimacus, you make the game worth playing even with AoE-caps, no usefull progression past Assault / Support Rank 10, and with PvP being not even close to balanced.
Chars: Sera - VR12 Templar (Heal / DPS) ||| Seraliah - VR12 Dragonknight (DPS / Tank)1 -
Revy✭Hi
I started out trying to make sets of armor.
I soon found out it wasn't worth the effort because I leveled out of whatever before I got a complete set.
By the time I had 3 or 4 pieces I needed to start all over with the next level of stuff.
I just quit bothering with it and wear what I have that has the buffs I need.
If there was an auction, I would put together a set and use it until I needed to upgrade and then do it again etc.
I'm not going to spend my game time, looking for someone who has the missing pieces, I want to be out killing things.
I don't know if the same thing happens after level 50, maybe at that point it would be worth putting a set together, but I haven't been there long enough to figure that out yet.
Mike
Its only worth finding and putting together sets after level 50.
Back to the main thread, besides I believe the lack of an AH is preventing botting. Think about it, once implemented all materials will reach rock bottom prices fairly fast. That will happen because they simply dont care what the price is as long as they get gold out of it. In some aspects this game has a pretty good antibot prevention with the megaserver and we could only use the zone chat in that particular area.2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »The undercutting argument is silly.
If i. e. 10 people undercut each other, price will sink by 10g for example, but in the same time, 10 people buy the stacks, so the price will be like it was.
Saying a stack would cost 401g, is even more silly, because seriously, who'd even wait to get his 1g benefit if it comes with the extra work of selling things via the auction house.
Botters and everything should be let out of the discussion, because those methods of gaining materials are illegal, and going against them is Zenimax duty, and should not be considered by us.
As far as I see it, some people are simply having doubts that are completely irrational, and the fear of Zenimax is forcing players to spend whole days on searching specific equipment.
Remember: It's no achievement, that you sat 8h in front of the PC, and repeated the same "WTB XY" sentence over and over. The achievement is, that you made the gold, or farmed the item directly, one needing to search hours after hours is boring, and requires no skill at all.
Just go look at GW2. Please. Everything except the rarest items sell for a fraction more than vendor prices. Some people in their habitual desire to undercut the lowest price actually list things below vendor cost w/o even knowing it. This isn't completely irrational. This is fact..
If you have seen the AH in GW2 and like it, then fine. But don't come here and presume to understand what an global auction house would be like if you haven't seen one. And those of us that have seen one can spot you a mile away.
The achievment is in the fact that we took the time and effort to actually lvl a trade skill. Those people that are too lazy to lvl a tradeskill shouldn't be able to get every crafted item for nothing.
Edited by Alphashado on July 16, 2014 7:24PM1 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭wrlifeboil wrote: »
I don't even bother to sell lower level materials like Spidersilk or Rawhide. Those items don't sell fast enough because most players accumulate enough to craft their own gear while questing. Better to use the 30 slots that you have in the guild store for items that have a better chance of being sold. I refine for mats and wind up vendoring the stacks of the material so it doesn't waste bag or bank space.
I haven't seen botters since late May-early June. Where are these botters operating? I do see players farming in Craglorn but farming for mats is what you're supposed to do in an mmo.
No, you're right. The smartest of the population is decon'ing with 3/3 for the blue-yellow materials to sell. I haven't seen botters either since the Zenimax Purge, but there are complaints all over still that botters are insta-porting to resource nodes. Then again, I play around 4am EST time after work and usually an hour a night...so I'm not the best person to comment on the amount of botters.
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Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »The undercutting argument is silly.
If i. e. 10 people undercut each other, price will sink by 10g for example, but in the same time, 10 people buy the stacks, so the price will be like it was.
Saying a stack would cost 401g, is even more silly, because seriously, who'd even wait to get his 1g benefit if it comes with the extra work of selling things via the auction house.
The 401g argument has already been validated since launch by several intelligent individuals on these forums, on both sides of the argument. 401g is a vague number, but widely accepted for now. The actual Bottom line price is going to be considerate to the "after tax" price. If the AH takes 10 gold cut, then the actual listing price will bottom out at 411 gold. Yes it sounds stupid, but it will happen. It already does in WarCraft. I know this because I run Auctionator, Tradeskill Master, and several other addons. People list items sometimes 1 silver over vendor price. Your example of "doing extra work" seems logical to someone selling one stack, but if you list 100 stacks 1 gold over vendor value then you just made 100 gold.
Botters and everything should be let out of the discussion, because those methods of gaining materials are illegal, and going against them is Zenimax duty, and should not be considered by us.
They should not be left out of conversation. When you have thousands of farmers getting paid 5 cents an hour in China to bring gold in to the economy, that really was not intended. It impacts us all, with or without an AH.
As far as I see it, some people are simply having doubts that are completely irrational, and the fear of Zenimax is forcing players to spend whole days on searching specific equipment.
Remember: It's no achievement, that you sat 8h in front of the PC, and repeated the same "WTB XY" sentence over and over. The achievement is, that you made the gold, or farmed the item directly, one needing to search hours after hours is boring, and requires no skill at all.
What you and other are suggesting is that it is hard to find an item you want. But the instant "Go To" resolution always seems to be an Auction House to you guys. Why not make suggestions to improve the current system since ZOS has already stated they are not going to implement an Auction House?
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traigusb14_ESO2✭✭✭✭✭A friend of mine in WOW (like a lot of people) was using a mod to auto-undercut. He wasn't using it right and ended up with sub-vendor prices for a while.
Once he learned to use the market tracking features (which also allowed you to track prices of stuff that was currently not for sale), he was making almost no money at record speeds... which was ok for him because it was automated to a drag and drop + ok button to list stuff for whatever the mod thought the price should be... therefore not using up a lot of his time.
It strikes me as him not actually playing the game, but hey.
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SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭This economy debate is ridiculous. Most people who say "X" or "Y" will ruin said economy are totally full of it. There is hardly an economy to ruin, and what economy does exist is barely working because of the minimal trading features. Those who think this should continue are either trying to exploit other players, or are just plain ignorant. The ability to communicate with more players, means more trade, which would be a real economy. As of now, the current economy consists of some trade guilds, and some spammers. That's not an economy. It's a joke.4 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This economy debate is ridiculous. Most people who say "X" or "Y" will ruin said economy are totally full of it. There is hardly an economy to ruin, and what economy does exist is barely working because of the minimal trading features. Those who think this should continue are either trying to exploit other players, or are just plain ignorant. The ability to communicate with more players, means more trade, which would be a real economy. As of now, the current economy consists of some trade guilds, and some spammers. That's not an economy. It's a joke.
A global AH would be zero economy. Zero, zip, zilch. Every item in the game (except the most rare items) might as well be in a big community chest for everyone to walk up and help themselves to. Is that really what you want?
Not me.
5
