The_Sadist wrote: »

If you're not familiar with hyperbole and whatnot and you're actively using the forums of any game or the internet in general, you're going to run into a bit of trouble.

I'm very familiar with hyperbole, so let me give you some free advice, for what it's worth.

Hyperbole does not help you make your point. It just weakens your argument and gives others a reason to tell you that you are wrong.

It is a tool for the desperate. Be better than that.

Indeed! And you answered with a question. I probably shouldn't made such a bold statement, but alas I did and can't go back in time. Can I admit I said something illogical? Sure, should it be focused on and picked apart when it was obviously meant to be funny? No.

I was trying to take you seriously, because you seemed to be having a problem.

If you want me to not take you seriously, I can do that, but I'm not sure how this is going to help you explain your side of the issue.

Feel free to browse the topic and examine where I made actual logical and serious arguments for it. You're picking at strings for no real reason, if you had provided actual arguments for or against I may have been able to have a serious conversation with you, but I didn't take your questions seriously. If you're going to take snippets of the conversation and completely overlook my actual arguments you probably shouldn't bother.

Np. I was just trying to help by understanding your side.

My bad. I'll try not to make that mistake in the future.

One post and I'm suddenly a pot, but I suppose you're also calling yourself a kettle, so there's that.

Actually, you were saying they were not giving any logical reason for their side. You were not giving any to me.

The kettle was them. You were the pot.

Anyway, have a nice day.

Blackwidow wrote: »

I'm very familiar with hyperbole, so let me give you some free advice, for what it's worth.

Hyperbole does not help you make your point. It just weakens your argument and gives others a reason to tell you that you are wrong.

It is a tool for the desperate. Be better than that.

I was trying to take you seriously, because you seemed to be having a problem.

If you want me to not take you seriously, I can do that, but I'm not sure how this is going to help you explain your side of the issue.

Np. I was just trying to help by understanding your side.

My bad. I'll try not to make that mistake in the future.

Actually, you were saying they were not giving any logical reason for their side. You were not giving any to me.

The kettle was them. You were the pot.

Anyway, have a nice day.

It's also a tool I utilise alongside sarcasm in order to prevent me from flat out insulting individuals. While it my weaken whatever hypothetical argument I'm having, it spares me receiving a warning for calling out an idiot. I'm not saying your post was particularly idiotic, but after arguing on several posts all day I had little patience left and faith in humanity.

I wasn't having a problem as such, I was simply annoyed that the reasons individuals were providing had no ground outside of immersion. This recent 'but I won't make an alt because achievements are my only motivation' concept is equally as sigh worthy.

I've explained my side several times throughout this thread and in a prior thread which had no poll, given you voted FOR the system it should be assumed you would have some basic understanding why I'm arguing for it. While our reasonings may not be the same I have pointed out there are several arguments present in the thread.

I often mistake myself, I don't take offence, I only take offence when my posts are shredded apart and / or put out of context.

Either or, the difference in distinction is irrelevant. We're all illogical to one and other, but sometimes middle ground can be reached.

You too, for what it's worth.

Compared to other mmos eso doesn't have a lot of replay value. Once you complete the game 3 times making alts to earn achievements will be the only thing left to do. Account wide achievements would be terrible for that reason alone if you want other reasons here's some.

1 we already have shared banks and guilds we don't need shared achievements.
2 A feeling of accomplishment because most toons will have different strengths and weaknesses. So earning achievements with them will show you your doing something right.

I don't get why so many people insist on adding features from wow or other mmos. That's one of the reasons why we can't get a decent mmo anymore.

brandon wrote: »

I don't get why so many people insist on adding features from wow or other mmos. That's one of the reasons why we can't get a decent mmo anymore.

I think you should look at every MMO you can get your hands on and see what works and does not work for you, personally.

I really never understood the fear that ESO would become WoW. It is vastly different.

Taking some really good ideas from other MMOs can be a good thing. Of course good is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm not saying this was a great idea or should be implemented, but saying it was in WoW, so therefore it is an automatic no, is a bit close minded.

The_Sadist wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

[words]

Um, that whole response wasn't relevant to you specifically, I was simply pointing out that these sort of commenters appear frequently, the rest is directed at the person who posted said response.

brandon wrote: »

Compared to other mmos eso doesn't have a lot of replay value. Once you complete the game 3 times making alts to earn achievements will be the only thing left to do. Account wide achievements would be terrible for that reason alone if you want other reasons here's some.

1 we already have shared banks and guilds we don't need shared achievements.
2 A feeling of accomplishment because most toons will have different strengths and weaknesses. So earning achievements with them will show you your doing something right.

I don't get why so many people insist on adding features from wow or other mmos. That's one of the reasons why we can't get a decent mmo anymore.

Indeed and using achievements as filler isn't the way the game should be, nor is it solid grounds to keep the current system. More content is always welcome, achievements in lieu of said content is simply a poor excuse.

1. That's not an argument at all and completely irrelevant. That's like saying we already have content so there's no point making more. You obviously role play each character as an individual and that's cool, perhaps don't use the bank, ignore guild chat on specific characters and don't craft for alts, it may up your roleplaying aspect.
2. Once again, farming chests and nodes and sitting at a Dolmen with 2 people doesn't equate to gaming skills, we've been over this.
   
   Um, that's a very bold statement given prior to ESO you stated you never played an MMO, simply observed family members. There are many good MMOs out there which utilise different system, simply suggesting an alternative system which appears in many MMOs won't break the game. Adding this feature won't destroy ESO and if it does I'd take full responsibility.

So your telling me that because I didn't personally play other mmos that I don't know what I'm talking about? I've seen other mmos played so I think I know about them. So no it's not a bold statement to make.

The_Sadist wrote: »

Mordria wrote: »

I get it. I don't want it. What would be the point in making a new character then? You're essentially destroying the replayability of the game. I certainly hope they aren't even considering this silly idea.

So you make alts purely for achievements? Because that's what you're saying. If achievements weren't actually a function / feature are you saying you wouldn't make an alt?

This is where I think you don't understand achievements at all. You see them only as a means to an end, rather than what they really are which is a fun aid to help you track your character's (not your account's) progress.

And again Alex, SWTOR does not arbitrarily award all your characters with achievements gained by only one.

Blackwidow wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

I don't get why so many people insist on adding features from wow or other mmos. That's one of the reasons why we can't get a decent mmo anymore.

I think you should look at every MMO you can get your hands on and see what works and does not work for you, personally.

I really never understood the fear that ESO would become WoW. It is vastly different.

Taking some really good ideas from other MMOs can be a good thing. Of course good is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm not saying this was a great idea or should be implemented, but saying it was in WoW, so therefore it is an automatic no, is a bit close minded.

The fear that eso will become WoW stems from the fact that almost every mmo in the last 10 years has tried to be WoW and failed. When people constantly say
"oh WoW had this so why doesn't eso have it" a lot of players see it as them trying to turn it into a WoW clone. I wouldn't call myself close minded. I just don't want this game to fail because they change it so much that it hardly resembles what it was.
@Blackwidow
PS this is offtopic but I want to apologize for any previous things I said to you. Your actually a nice guy.

brandon wrote: »

So your telling me that because I didn't personally play other mmos that I don't know what I'm talking about? I've seen other mmos played so I think I know about them. So no it's not a bold statement to make.

That's what you interpreted from my comment, I'm say how can you no know there's no decent MMOs out there if you've simply seen other people play them. I can say there's no decent food outside of pies because that's all everyone around me ate, it doesn't make it true.

Cogo wrote: »

Yes, I got 1000 hours or something in Skyrim! I love it
I also seen the many many times where Zenimax over year before launch SCREAMED that ESO is NOT skyrim online ;-)

Ok maye I was unclear. Just became another game has somerthing doesnt mean it fits in here.

Take bag and bank space for example. They done awesome to let players decide the economy...and for ONCE you cant pick up the whole wrold...need to choose....well...you probebly know the reason

Oh no....no problem asking for something but it kind needs to fit into the game...and not just be "useful"

Every MMO is different. there relally isnt a Standard. Other then the meaning of MMO

Wow got heavy critics at first...you know that? Why? cause they did stuff that everquest didnt have....thats progress

Look at wow the first 3 years. and compare with now? slight difference :-p

Cool cool, I have over thousand hours in Morrowind, awesome game but also completely irrelevant. Specific individuals want a single player MMO like Skyrim it seems with individualism being paramount over content and whatnot, it's a bit frustrating.

Unclear and condescending for sure. I agree, using WoW graphics in ESO would be horrible, but this system isn't game breaking nor is it a bad one.

You're not overly coherent. You can level both your bank and each individual bag space, certain games utilise a similar system.

You seem to be under the assumption that change is bad and fine tuning certain systems / features will break ESO. I'm not saying change how the game works, I'm simply suggesting lessening the grind and potentially shared achievement based dyes when they come out.

Every MMO is different, but they all posses similar features if you look hard enough. WoW arguably set the standard for most MMOs but I digress, I don't see where you're going with this.

Character specific achievements has been done before and is not a unique notion, once again, what are you trying to say?

Cool bananas?

KariTR wrote: »

This is where I think you don't understand achievements at all. You see them only as a means to an end, rather than what they really are which is a fun aid to help you track your character's (not your account's) progress.

And again Alex, SWTOR does not arbitrarily award all your characters with achievements gained by only one.

Using achievements as the only reason to make an alt was stated a few times now and without an achievement system in place nobody would bother making an alt. I've seen achievements track both your character's and account's progress in prior games so I know it can be done effectively. You can have character based and account wide achievements, it's not overly complicated. Those who are drive by achievements will still have incentive, but those of us who see it as filler / more grind won't have to spend weeks / months on each character.

GW2 does! Shared titles and whatnot, however there were also significantly more achievements because of this and some of these were character specific.

brandon wrote: »

The fear that eso will become WoW stems from the fact that almost every mmo in the last 10 years has tried to be WoW and failed.

I get that. I really do. So many Wow clones out there, it makes me kind of ill.

When people constantly say
"oh WoW had this so why doesn't eso have it" a lot of players see it as them trying to turn it into a WoW clone.

I see it as "WoW had it and I really liked that feature, so it would be nice to have it in ESO.

I don't think it is just because it was in WoW. If you see what I mean.

I wouldn't call myself close minded. I just don't want this game to fail because they change it so much that it hardly resembles what it was.

Fair enough. So, how about this. When a feature is asked for, leave WoW out of it in your mind. Just ask yourself, would this make ESO better.

If you say "I don't want a WoW clone" as a response, it just sounds like you don't want the feature just because it was in WoW, just like you might think they want it just because it was in WoW.

Does that make sense?

@Blackwidow
PS this is offtopic but I want to apologize for any previous things I said to you. Your actually a nice guy.

Thanks.

Wait. What did you say?

brandon wrote: »

@Blackwidow
Yes I see what you mean. I will try and not dislike something because it was in another mmo. However I still could probably find reasons on why certain things are better left out of the game.

Fair enough.

I was that guy in that thread that had all the bickering about a certain model. Lets forget about that incident.

Already forgotten.

The_Sadist wrote: »

Cool cool, I have over thousand hours in Morrowind, awesome game but also completely irrelevant. Specific individuals want a single player MMO like Skyrim it seems with individualism being paramount over content and whatnot, it's a bit frustrating.

Unclear and condescending for sure. I agree, using WoW graphics in ESO would be horrible, but this system isn't game breaking nor is it a bad one.

You're not overly coherent. You can level both your bank and each individual bag space, certain games utilise a similar system.

You seem to be under the assumption that change is bad and fine tuning certain systems / features will break ESO. I'm not saying change how the game works, I'm simply suggesting lessening the grind and potentially shared achievement based dyes when they come out.

Every MMO is different, but they all posses similar features if you look hard enough. WoW arguably set the standard for most MMOs but I digress, I don't see where you're going with this.

Character specific achievements has been done before and is not a unique notion, once again, what are you trying to say?

Cool bananas?

Wooo there partner! I meant no disrespect and I am for any idea whatever.
I am not native english and sometimes I dont sleep much ;-)

What I should said, is that Zenimax explained their vision of characters in ESO, why you share guild/bank space and SMALL items.

Other then that, each of your 8 chars are their own. Like you started for the first time.

This was a bit wierd for me to understand at first, but it really makes sense now in the ESO world.

Economy is player driven
Each char is a new addition to Tamriel and chooses whatever path.

This system is actually very interesting since its a tint of roleplay, but YOU choose, so what the hek you wanna do, is up to you.

This is my own statement when my friends ask me whats the difference in ESO and other MMOs. Instead of giving a list I say "You have to work for your stuff!"

After a while, you notice that a lot of things still have value.

THATS what I meant. And you are right. What has been done before is no reason to use or not use. Its simply a question if it fits in ESO.

I kinda like it. Even if starting a new, will mean doing the same, then the 4-6 week patch with new Stuff, kicks in.

That is why I voted no. I like that every char you meet in Tamriel is a "new" one.
Makes it more ...living.

*grind* and *leveling* is actually something you dont HAVE to do. We are just teached that way.

But, the core base for ESO, is you choose. Only thing that you cant not choose is the main storyline.

The_Sadist wrote: »

So dyes are account wide despite only requiring you to unlock the achievement on one character.

I'm pretty sure those of you against this proposed change are absolutely raging right now.

No, not raging. I do think it's pretty lame though as it also ruins individual character achievement which for me ruins the game. Also, I'd rather just buy or craft the colors. Getting colors as a reward seems like something you would do for preschoolers.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I would have no idea what shyshards and lorebooks an individual character had this way.

Make skyshards and lorebook achievements character specific. However, the lorebooks also have a section where you can see what lorebooks you're missing in each zone, so I don't see that being too much of an issue. Skyshards are a different story and ultimately would need to be character specific or have some sort of 'this character is missing this skyshard' sort of thing. But let's be honest, if you're not rolling with the addons after maxing a character or two you're a masochist anyway .

Mordria wrote: »

No, not raging. I do think it's pretty lame though. Also, I'd rather just buy the colors. Getting colors as a reward seems like something you would do for preschoolers.

Unfortunately that's how most games handle acquiring things. GW2 had the option to craft dyes, buy dye packs for real money and have dyes drop from gathering flowers / herbs.

Individuals whom are against the suggestion purely from a 'I role-play each character' mentality would generally dislike this dye system and if they don't they should really consider how different a shared dyed system, the ability to craft for alts and a shared bank is compared with a shared achievement system.

When I start a new character, I like to think of it as completely starting the game again as much as possible. I also like to use the achievements to keep track of how i'm doing in the game. There's handy lists of skyshards to get, or dolmens to take down.

I have a proposal that may satisfy both sides of this argument (Although probably not the OP). Make achievements Account wide AND character only. All of them.
Have a "Completed" status, and a "Completed with this Character" status. And a line saying which character you first did it with. "First Achieved with Orran-Ka" for example.

Then a toggle at the top saying whether to show completed or completed with character.

I'm interested to see what they'll do on consoles, which already have an achievement system. I'm hoping that they'll use all of the in-game achievements, or choose entirely different things.

But I suspect they'll probably just select a few from the list.

AdamBourke wrote: »

When I start a new character, I like to think of it as completely starting the game again as much as possible. I also like to use the achievements to keep track of how i'm doing in the game. There's handy lists of skyshards to get, or dolmens to take down.

I have a proposal that may satisfy both sides of this argument (Although probably not the OP). Make achievements Account wide AND character only. All of them.
Have a "Completed" status, and a "Completed with this Character" status. And a line saying which character you first did it with. "First Achieved with Orran-Ka" for example.

Then a toggle at the top saying whether to show completed or completed with character.

I'm interested to see what they'll do on consoles, which already have an achievement system. I'm hoping that they'll use all of the in-game achievements, or choose entirely different things.

But I suspect they'll probably just select a few from the list.

Having explored the same content (talking about EP zones) 4 times now the sense of 'this is new and shiny' has definitely vanished. So while I can understand your point, it doesn't apply to me. That being said I also use achievements to track my character's progress which leads to your proposal..

.. And that's exactly what I'm talking about, that sort of system would appease me, sort of, assuming titles and whatnot are shared. If this isn't the case it would sort of redundant as knowing when your first character completed an achievement seems a little pointless.

See above.

I'm quite indifferent honestly, I don't understand why ESO is going console, I'd rather they focus exclusively on PC etc etc.

dannymcgr81b14_ESO wrote: »

I like hunting for achievements.

So do I! But hunting the same achievement for the 5th time which requires you to fish or farm a dolmen gets old fast.