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I feel like a hero again!
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Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭Blackwidow wrote: »
because if you are not more powerful then you cannot win. how can you beat the odds?They didnt have the amulet of kings though.
But I know what he means. Where does it state that you have to be more powerful than the bad guys in an MMO? Who wrote that rule. Why cant you be the underdog beating the odds? And why shouldn't that be more rewarding?
2 vet levels above me. More health, hit harder and out number me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlUTib_4xLU
Don't bother reading my answer, just post stuff that is irrelevant to the conversation instead.
That wasn't to you. What's your issue. Cant you drop the keyboard hero crap, Machismo is so lame on the web you know2 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Blackwidow wrote: »
because if you are not more powerful then you cannot win. how can you beat the odds?They didnt have the amulet of kings though.
But I know what he means. Where does it state that you have to be more powerful than the bad guys in an MMO? Who wrote that rule. Why cant you be the underdog beating the odds? And why shouldn't that be more rewarding?
2 vet levels above me. More health, hit harder and out number mehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlUTib_4xLU
Don't bother reading my answer, just post stuff that is irrelevant to the conversation instead.
That wasn't to you. What's your issue. Cant you drop the keyboard hero crap, Machismo is so lame on the web you know
ROFLMAO!
Okay, have a nice day.2 -
KariTR✭✭✭✭✭
because if you are not more powerful then you cannot win. how can you beat the odds? by mounting dices onto your flail?They didnt have the amulet of kings though.
But I know what he means. Where does it state that you have to be more powerful than the bad guys in an MMO? Who wrote that rule. Why cant you be the underdog beating the odds? And why shouldn't that be more rewarding?
most probably because the luck in TES universe would simply translate into hero's power. and even if it would not then how being lucky is rewarding? it is an outside factor. universal rule: strong rule the weak.
You get more powerful by learning better and/or different strategies (as Hilgara and I both pointed out, though maybe I was too subtle, AI is not that clever). We aren't talking anything complex here either, at its most basic it is simply knowing when to right click or press the key you bound your dodge to.
I find that a far more realistic way of becoming more powerful, than to have the enemy become so trifling I don't even have to use the few basic combat moves we have been given.4 -
Surinen✭✭✭
I was speaking about lore and story.
2 vet levels above me. More health, hit harder and out number me
still, the same situation, you have defeated them because you are stronger, you may translate it into using a correct sequence of abilities that have resulted in positive outcome. if they were 'trully' stronger than you then you would be dead, waiting for respawn.
Edited by Surinen on July 7, 2014 9:22PMMissing Altmer hair colour: black: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110900/altmer-missing-hair-colour#latest4 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
I was speaking about lore and story.
2 vet levels above me. More health, hit harder and out number me
still, the same situation, you have defeated them because you are stronger, you may translate it into using a correct sequence of abilities that have resulted in positive outcome. if they were 'trully' stronger than you then you would be dead, waiting for respawn.
They are truly stronger. They were beaten because I'm (slightly) smarter than the AI not because I was stronger. They barely laid a finger on me so their extra power was not allowed to be put into effect.3 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭
because if you are not more powerful then you cannot win. how can you beat the odds?They didnt have the amulet of kings though.
But I know what he means. Where does it state that you have to be more powerful than the bad guys in an MMO? Who wrote that rule. Why cant you be the underdog beating the odds? And why shouldn't that be more rewarding?
2 vet levels above me. More health, hit harder and out number me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzbUMC3nP_I
Nice video but you are fighting mostly melee mobs and much like players..melee mobs are sort of gimp (usually). That is fairly easy so wtg I guess? It's the pack of casters/archers that suck. They split up into a triangle formation (making it hard/impossible to CC/AE them), heal each other and have unavoidable attacks that do significant dmg.2 -
Surinen✭✭✭
well, it is a gameplay talk. I thought that we are discussing lore and story. no matter what kind of strategies and tactics you learn and use, if your opponent is more powerful than you then you end up defeated (powerful understood as combination of all combat beneficial traits: intelligence, power etc.).
You get more powerful by learning better and/or different strategies (as Hilgara and I both pointed out, though maybe I was too subtle, AI is not that clever). We aren't talking anything complex here either, at its most basic it is simply knowing when to right click or press the key you bound your dodge to.
I find that a far more realistic way of becoming more powerful, than to have the enemy become so trifling I don't even have to use the few basic combat moves we have been given.
personally I do not see it as power. if you struggle, put a lot of effort into doing something then you are still an amateur in my eyes.
Missing Altmer hair colour: black: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110900/altmer-missing-hair-colour#latest1 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
because if you are not more powerful then you cannot win. how can you beat the odds?They didnt have the amulet of kings though.
But I know what he means. Where does it state that you have to be more powerful than the bad guys in an MMO? Who wrote that rule. Why cant you be the underdog beating the odds? And why shouldn't that be more rewarding?
2 vet levels above me. More health, hit harder and out number mehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzbUMC3nP_I
Nice video but you are fighting mostly melee mobs and much like players..melee mobs are sort of gimp (usually). That is fairly easy so wtg I guess? It's the pack of casters/archers that suck. They split up into a triangle formation (making it hard/impossible to CC/AE them), heal each other and have unavoidable attacks that do significant dmg.
I never had a problem with any variation of any group of mobs. Healers, caster archers. I could adapt. The NB is actually better against clothies because I can one shot them making a group of 3 into a group of 2 in the first hit.
Actually just checked again. One of them was a healer. It was just locked down the whole fight. Had to do that because I missed the 1st surprise attack.Edited by Hilgara on July 7, 2014 9:37PM2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Catches_the_Sun wrote: »Blackwidow wrote: »I have made 2,329 posts on these forums. (I know, sad) In all of those posts, not once did I ever ask for a nerf. I have never asked for the combat in ESO to be easier.
I like a challenging game.
That said, playing my Vet 8 Templar today, I felt like a hero again.
I felt powerful. I got to treat minions as the garbage that they are.
No longer do I need to beg a pack of mubcrabs for mercy!
I have to say I love the change. I didn't ask for it, but I do love it.
Thank you, ZOS.
The vet content update has made ESO the special olympics of MMOs. We're all winners!!
Comments like that make you feel good big dawg? Insulting and humiliating this guy make you giddy? If he is happy and enjoying the change to content then good for him. If you disagree, then good for you. But comments like yours are the reason most people avoid these forums like a plague. Why should they come here and be honest just to be treated like that?
This is why people use /feedback instead of coming here. Then you guys think it's only the "vocal minority" that oppose your view. No, it isn't the vocal minority. It is the silent majority that would rather use /feedback then subject themselves to comments and ridicule like this.
Edited by Alphashado on July 7, 2014 9:36PM8 -
Surinen✭✭✭
but intelligence is a strength. I'm not talking about the raw 'smash' power. although lore-story-wise I do not think that the same solution can be applied to Molag Bal, even if he was to stand in one place and doing nothing. I highly doubt that stabbing him would do you any good.They are truly stronger. They were beaten because I'm (slightly) smarter than the AI not because I was stronger. They barely laid a finger on me so their extra power was not allowed to be put into effect.
Edited by Surinen on July 7, 2014 9:32PMMissing Altmer hair colour: black: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110900/altmer-missing-hair-colour#latest2 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭The true fact is , it was totally unbalanced , that gave zen two options:
First to go from mob to mob , fight to fight and check them then rebalance where needed.
Second to just nerf everything so we did not have completely broken enemies and areas.
The first option required a LOT of work and if well done would have been by far the best choice , ofc , zen went for the second one since they really dont have all the time to work on the first."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor4 -
Surinen✭✭✭
again, you bring it down to gameplay only. for me gameplay, mechanics serve the story, not the other way around. I have defeated Molag Bal, King of R.ape, father of millions of abominations, why would I want to stab a mudcrab for 30s? or die to some highwaymen. I'm a hero, the hero!And should be applied more often. Then you wouldn't need to nerf
Missing Altmer hair colour: black: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110900/altmer-missing-hair-colour#latest3 -
Malpherian✭✭✭✭✭Thing is all these RP'res talk about immersion. What is more immersive than knowing you are in danger when you leave a town. When you have to think about every encounter. When there is a reasonable chance you will die if you get things wrong. That's immersive. Thats closer to how things would really be in Tamriel
There is a difference between being in danger, and being killed before you can turn around to see what hit you.
A sense of danger is good. Being 2 shotted isn't.
2 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I hate the term 'trash' mobs? Who's to say those NPCs aren't the AI equivalent of you or I?
Gee, I dont know. Maybe because their name and only identity is: Covenant Infantry, or [insert clan name that will be erased] Bandit [insert name of role and utility] ??
Maybe because they literally, are less important than the Dreugh dung my character stepped on the other day?2 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
again, you bring it down to gameplay only. for me gameplay, mechanics serve the story, not the other way around. I have defeated Molag Bal, King of R.ape, father of millions of abominations, why would I want to stab a mudcrab for 30s? or die to some highwaymen. I'm a hero, the hero!And should be applied more often. Then you wouldn't need to nerf
No your not. You had godlike powers against MB (amulet of kings) You needed that because you are just a lowly mortal and he would have eaten you alive without it. The bandits are lowly mortals too but they are also combat specialists. Trained fighters. If they are just scenery where is your lore then. How can that be immersion? If you want lore then you killing stuff without even having to think about it isn't following the lore. You are human. You are fighting powerful mosters and trained fighters and wizards and all kinds of nasties so you should be fighting for your life not flicking them aside3 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
again, you bring it down to gameplay only. for me gameplay, mechanics serve the story, not the other way around. I have defeated Molag Bal, King of R.ape, father of millions of abominations, why would I want to stab a mudcrab for 30s? or die to some highwaymen. I'm a hero, the hero!And should be applied more often. Then you wouldn't need to nerf
The bandits are lowly mortals too but they are also combat specialists. Trained fighters.
Yeah, average bandits in run-of-the-mill iron armor that raid for a living, are comparable to Elite Dremora mixed unit tactics from Coldharbour. whom have experience in simply existing since the Dawn era, and wear Daedric Armor.
Tell us again about how pro you are. We don't care. This is an MMORPG. Furthermore, it bears the burden of the title, TES. TES has a reputation of lore consistency through game-play representation - before fake difficulty and inconsistent game-play that disrupts suspension of disbelief when immersing yourself in an RPG. For ex: Bandit no-lifes whom are not important to the story, being a consistent challenge to an end-game level'd player.
Welcome to an RPG. You don't like lore taking precedence over hardcore game-play? Then this isn't the game for you.Edited by Lord_Hev on July 7, 2014 9:53PM6 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I enjoyed the difficulty the old way but I do understand an element of the complaint people have made. I'll use Skyrim and Final Fantasy as examples. In Skyrim, as you leveled up and grew stronger, you began to outgrow certain classes of enemies, but there were still enemies out there built to challenge you (admittedly you can get too powerful eventually but that's neither here nor there). The random mudcrab, wolf, or even bandit were no longer a concern at this point, because you had become an epic hero. Now compare to a game like the MMO Final Fantasy, were no matter where you went there was an irritating bunny rabbit that hit like a ton of bricks. It hit harder than the army of orcs hiding just around the corner. It was infuriating, not because of the difficulty but because it just didn't make any sense. Dying to a bunny rabbit? Really?
I saw in an earlier sentiment in this thread someone state they didn't like the notion of getting flattened by mudcrabs. I can see the point and I completely understand, even agree. I'm also 100% fine with having kept the difficulty level on many/most of the mobs as they were. Some enemies should exist as 'trash' though, as it just lends a little credibility to the story.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>2 -
Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I hate the term 'trash' mobs? Who's to say those NPCs aren't the AI equivalent of you or I?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT7RIyurrMs 3 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
Welcome to an RPG. You don't like lore taking precedence over hardcore game-play? Then this isn't the game for you.
So you think those that came for the MMO part of the game should just leave. And where do you think the game would be in 6 months if that happened. Before the nerf the same people were saying the game would die because they didn't like the game and were being forced out of it. So now its ok for you its everyone else that can do one right?
There's not enough of you RP'res to keep a sub game going. You need those that came for a challenging MMO. The game is a combat RPG and was advertised as such.
2 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭
While I was not an advocate for the 'nerf' I completely understand where ZOS is coming from. It makes business sense to cater to the larger crowd.
Yeah I noticed that. I also remember it being used as justification for the nerf when the qqing was going the other way pre patch. Just a shame all the people waited until after the nerf to find their voices. I always suspected that the "difficulty too hard" gang was a vocal minority....at least on this forum. Seems I might have been right.
I logged in to test things out and found it to be just as difficult/easy as levels 1-50. Is it faceroll easy, no. But you will not hear that from the vocal minority here today. I applaud ZOS for making a tough decision.
*** Showing the ability to adapt is what will ensure this game has a long life. ***
com·mit·ment
kəˈmitmənt/Submit
noun
1.
the state or quality of being dedicated to a cause, activity, etc.
"the company's commitment to quality"
synonyms: dedication, devotion, allegiance, loyalty, faithfulness, fidelity More
a pledge or undertaking.
"I cannot make such a commitment at the moment"
synonyms: vow, promise, pledge, oath; More
2.
an engagement or obligation that restricts freedom of action.
"business commitments"
synonyms: responsibility, obligation, duty, tie, liability;
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
re·nege
riˈneg,-ˈnig/Submit
verb
go back on a promise or undertaking.
"the administration had reneged on its election promises"
synonyms: default on, fail to honor, go back on, break, back out of, withdraw from, retreat from, welsh on, backtrack on; More
antonyms: honor
another term for revoke (sense 2).
archaic
3 -
Surinen✭✭✭
Chim-el Adabal is not Molag Bal nor Daedra repellent. Do you remember how you were making holes in big, solid and bad rocks? How Molag Bal himself said that you have attracted other Princes attention? You were radiating with power! You never was 'normal', you were a Soulless one.
No your not. You had godlike powers against MB (amulet of kings) You needed that because you are just a lowly mortal and he would have eaten you alive without it. The bandits are lowly mortals too but they are also combat specialists. Trained fighters. If they are just scenery where is your lore then. How can that be immersion? If you want lore then you killing stuff without even having to think about it isn't following the lore. You are human. You are fighting powerful mosters and trained fighters and wizards and all kinds of nasties so you should be fighting for your life not flicking them aside
excuse me, kind sir! who do you think I'm?a human? no, no, no. I'm a superiorly bred Mer, an Altmer no less! these monsters, fighters and wizards were nothing in comparison with Daedric Prince. His very presence would kill these weaklings.
You are never a lowly mortal in TES. Your destiny sets you apart from them. Some even say that our characters are the strongest beings in Aurbis.
Missing Altmer hair colour: black: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110900/altmer-missing-hair-colour#latest5 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
Chim-el Adabal is not Molag Bal nor Daedra repellent. Do you remember how you were making holes in big, solid and bad rocks? How Molag Bal himself said that you have attracted other Princes attention? You were radiating with power! You never was 'normal', you were a Soulless one.
No your not. You had godlike powers against MB (amulet of kings) You needed that because you are just a lowly mortal and he would have eaten you alive without it. The bandits are lowly mortals too but they are also combat specialists. Trained fighters. If they are just scenery where is your lore then. How can that be immersion? If you want lore then you killing stuff without even having to think about it isn't following the lore. You are human. You are fighting powerful mosters and trained fighters and wizards and all kinds of nasties so you should be fighting for your life not flicking them aside
excuse me, kind sir! who do you think I'm?a human? no, no, no. I'm a superiorly bred Mer, an Altmer no less! these monsters, fighters and wizards were nothing in comparison with Daedric Prince. His very presence would kill these weaklings.
You are never a lowly mortal in TES. Your destiny sets you apart from them. Some even say that our characters are the strongest beings in Aurbis.
Your skill a guile sets you apart from them. Or are you telling me skill should have no bearing on this game? Then you really would see a mass exodus.Edited by Hilgara on July 7, 2014 10:08PM4 -
Surinen✭✭✭
of course it should, but there is a difference been playing 'normal' and 'hard' mode. even 'easy' requires skill.Your skill a guile sets you apart from them. Or are you telling me skill should have no bearing on this game? Then you really would see a mass exodus.
to be perfectly honest with you, I do not mind exodus. I'm not socialising, I do not seek company of other players. they are nothing but lively background in my eyes. in fact, I think that solid shakeout would do this game good. too many people wish to make a calculator out of my adored TES.
Missing Altmer hair colour: black: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110900/altmer-missing-hair-colour#latest4 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
of course it should, but there is a difference been playing 'normal' and 'hard' mode. even 'easy' requires skill.Your skill a guile sets you apart from them. Or are you telling me skill should have no bearing on this game? Then you really would see a mass exodus.
to be perfectly honest with you, I do not mind exodus. I'm not socialising, I do not seek company of other players. they are nothing but lively background in my eyes. in fact, I think that solid shakeout would do this game good. too many people wish to make a calculator out of my adored TES.
You really have no idea how MMO's work do you. Our subs keep your game going. This game can only really survive as a sub game. If it goes FTP that will be the end and it wouldn't take too many more people to unsub to bring that about. The game has to cater for everyone and hold new players as well as retaining old players. RP is very much a niche market as much at the hardcore end is. Neither alone would keep the game goingEdited by Hilgara on July 7, 2014 10:24PM3 -
Surinen✭✭✭
with all respect, I think that ESO would do just fine without 'your' subscription. exactly what you have said, but for some reason you do not consider yourself a 'hardcore'. the way where game is heading currently is perfectly fine, not too easy, not too hard. you still have a sense that your enemies are not made out of paper.You really have no idea how MMO's work do you. Our subs keep your game going. This game can only really survive as a sub game. If it goes FTP that will be the end and it wouldn't take too many more people to unsub to bring that about. The game has to cater for everyone and hold new players as well as retaining old players. RP is very much a niche market as much at the hardcore end is. Neither alone would keep the game going
It is difficult for me to speak about my RP 'agenda', considering ESO's rather limited offer in this aspect. I guess that after playing swtor, it will be difficult for me to enjoy story-leveling in mmos until 'new swtor' come out. In fact, I think that TES in general should sip from the chalice of choices driven story.
Edited by Surinen on July 7, 2014 10:34PMMissing Altmer hair colour: black: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/110900/altmer-missing-hair-colour#latest1 -
Trelia✭✭I don't usually ever do anything on the forums but this post just made me sad. The content did not need to be changed.
The vet content was the only challenging PvE in the game and it's now ruined. i can just waltz through it now and it makes me cry on the inside.
Between the nerf of the vet content that i was playing through because i couldn't PvP and the fact that i can't currently PvP, this game is losing a lot of the things that i loved about it.
i understand that the devs are working on this and that complaining won't make it better but please hurry. As a former PTS player i have a larger tolerance to the issues that have made so many people unsubbbing.
I am trying my hardest to keep my friends and guildies in the game and i would like to have my faith rewarded soon with playable PvP.3
