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Thank you for finally listening
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vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »It's way more interesting if it makes it less of a grinding pain to do.
It is 2/3rds of the leveling content with almost no advancement and marginal gains. I'm not sure this patch is going to make it less grindy.
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steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭It doesn't matter what people say on here if the money is happy. If the money is not happy then things will continue to change. What goes on in the forums is a symptom not a cause.4
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Obviously every decision that affects a wide audience causes mixed feelings.
I personally was hoping for a different sort of change: not a reduction of difficulty, but an increase on the rewards for completing VR quests/solo dungeons etc. My problem was not the focus it demanded to stay alive, but that I did it for such a small reward that it barely covered the cost of my repairs.
Regardless, above all what I want is a healthy population for the game I enjoy. I don't think many people are going to quit because VR content will become easier, but if this change helps bring people then obviously it's a good change. Also one I'll hopefully benefit from from as I'll have more people to play and trade with.EU | PC | AD1 -
I've have VR6 classic assasin NB, who is now parked at Auridon bank. Now i'm leveling a Sorc (VR2 atm) and I already completed all of the Cyrodiil PvE content and half of Glenumbra. Both toons are from the Pact so i did the exact same content twice. TBH i don't feel Vet content to be as difficult as it was when i was playing my NB. With NB packs of 3 enemies were impossible to finish w/o constantly spamming CC skills and these fights required some time. With destro staff on my Sroc fights against packs of 3 last for 5-7 seconds tops and i barely loose any health, single targets can simply be killed with force shock spam with occasional crystal shard proc. IMO true problem lies not in VR difficulty but in good ol' magica/stamina disbalance. Stamina builds are the most popular or at least it seems that way to me and they are very underpowered and that is why we have so many frustrated people.1 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭born2beagator wrote: »
Thats part of itborn2beagator wrote: »Nope players who liked VR difficulty will start leaving they didn't fix anything.
Judging by how deserted VR zones are right now, I don't think we'll miss those few hardcores. Personally I have adapted to the difficulty for the most part as far as trash mobs are concerned. But It will be nice having no more fights like the one I mentioned.
I must say I do take some pleasure out of this. All you L2P posters are eating your words.
The reason players aren't in VR zones is because ZOS screwed up craglorn big time so everyone goes there.
imo there are 3 things wrong with VR right now:
1. Difficulty on solo players
2. Zero reward besides 2 costumes. Even all the quests are just green crap for deconstruct.
3. Super slow xp gain compared to craglorn.
They are fixing one of these things.
Imo Craglorn needs to die for a little bit and they need to rework it to take away the things that make people skip to there...and then they need to make the 1-10 levels more rewarding.
I agree with you that ZOS needs to fix craglorn. Now a few things I want to say.
1 I don't think the vet difficulty is as hard as people make it. A lot of people think so as well. Heres a poll.http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/p1
2 I never understood why people cared that much about items. Like is it that big of a deal to show it off.
3 I do think the xp should be increased. I agree with you on that.
I don't put much stock into a poll like this where others can see what someone voted. Of course they are going to vote the content isn't difficult even if they think it is just to make themselves look good to their friends. The poll should have been made anonymous and would have at least had a chance to reflect how players actually felt about it.Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
0.016%1 -
bertenburnyb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭this is sad,
the difficulty was fine, u just had to use your head a little more and didn't have expect the enemy's would lay down for you and roll over.
I say keep the difficulty and add rewards/improvement of char, thats the real issue, 2/3 of the game has no progressionHaze Ramoran Dunmer Dragonknight Tank/Dps – Smoked-Da-Herb Saxheel Templar Tank/Healer
Red Diamond, Protect us 'til the end (EU EP Thorn)4 -
Danisheraser✭✭✭no way this is good. This is ***!
Zenimax is listening to all the whiners who can't manage the difficulty. Now making content easy/faceroll like 1-50.
This is ruining the game. Good luck.1 -
Dayv✭✭✭✭I really consider this a partial fix, not a nerf. ZOS took something designed for solo play and tuned it up trying to make it like group content. Overtuned single player content is not proper group content. 1-49 scales in pack sizes as the player grows in power. Simple upscaling of mob health/dps doesn't work properly when the player is becoming effectively weaker.1 -
shadowz081✭✭✭I as a duel wield nightblade could take out pack of three mobs in 15-20 sec and a 50/50 chance against 4...I could take out pack mobs in group pubs on my own if I pop an ult...I think difficulty is fine as it is, makes me actually play instead of strolling up to a group and spam AoE, like what you would do when you were level 15...
Personally, those that whine about this just need to L2P...The only weapons that might makes it harder to take down group of mobs is a bow and resto staff, and even than it mostly depends on what skills you have on your bar.0 -
LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭The announced change saddens me. We all know VR content needs tweaking and fine-tuning. However I don't think making the content easier is the answer. The content needs to be more rewarding and make the player feel like the time invested is worth the end results. Making it easier does not fix these issues and if these issues are addressed AND the difficulty is reduced that's a bad thing IMO.
I'm just waiting to form my full opinion on it all until after we see the next road ahead article and see what they have for us at QuakeCon.Edited by LtCrunch on July 4, 2014 2:15PMNerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/161 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i laugh a lot while reading some people sayign "oh no! now the hardcore will leave!...VR areas were deserted and those hardcore disbanding and now the game is gonna have a lot more players and it will be a lot more interesting to play. Many people forget that this is supposed to be an Elder Scrolls, not nother game. The immersion and exploration is the most important, not the difficulty.
Anyway, I would like to know if the rewards will be better and there will be some more soul in npcs and you will have new quests making you feel like you already killed Molag Bal. I guess no, but just asking...
I agree that it's an elder scrolls game, but it's also an mmo.
But this one is different or it should be. It is based in a franchise existing since many years ago, completely established and with a very big fanbase behind. And its an mmo, but should not be another random mmo clone. If not, the name would be another one. But no, the name is Elder Scrolls.
Anyway I don't get the poing of being more mmo or less mmo if the VR are more difficult or less. If you mean, because it forced you to group...well, the whole VR post 5 was a desert and people was grinding Craglorn like mads. So...
It is it's own mmo. Most if not all mmos in recent years have been far to easy. One of the reasons people liked this game is because it wasn't a cookie cutter mmo. I have played other TES games before though. Love the series.
Maybe we were living paralell realities, but the game is almost dying because of the VR thing and mainly the insane difficulty with no reward...incredible.
No the game is dying because of all the bugs. Most people didn't think VR was hard look. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/p1
Most complaints about VR were either
A- That it goes against lore OR
B That it was a grind because you already did this on your chosen faction
Dude...I'm not gonna quote the whole topics here talking about the VR difficulty/boredom....That is just one poll.
Have you read the ZOS post about it? If there was not people complaining, why are they chaging it? I mena, just read the beginning of the post in development section.
Anyway i agree with your two points. But I feel that is more difficult for them to fix. I realy would like them to fix it.
Did you even check the poll? Polls are meant as a representation of what people want. The poll shows that the majority thought VR wasn't difficult.
In case you didn't check here are the results as of me posting this.
Do you think veteran content is too hard?
Yes 38%
No 61%
As you can see the majority don't think it's too hard. Also whose to say no one in this thread hadn't already voted in the poll?
OMFG dude...read:One of the topics we frequentlyget feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.
Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.
Why in the world should a company change someghing if it was not important?
Because of that poll?
...
If you haven't already noticed the devs seem to do the opposite of what people want. Like I said before polls are meant to show what everyone wants. Most people didn't think VR content was difficult. So why don't you READ the results and stop acting like MOST people think VR is hard when the majority said it wasn't.
Oh, ok then. Good explanation. I leave it XD
I don't know why I bother trying to explain this to you. It's obvious nothing I say is going to change your mind. You are so blind to facts it's laughable. Zenimax needs to stop trying to please people who clearly don't know what they are talking about and start fixing the bugs in this game. People are leaving because of the BUGS. Yes some people leave because for them it's to difficult but for most people leaving it is a lot of other things.
There is a feature in the game called /feedback. Every player has it. ZoS encourages its use. As 99% of you L2Pers have pointed out in the past (when it suits your fancy) forum dwellers are a small % of the actual player base. I see the same 20-30 names countless times debating this issue on both sides of the isle. Please do not continue to insist that ZoS would make any kind of change based purely off this forum. They are a business and they aren't going to make a change like this unless all of their demographics suggest it's a smart business decision.
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Anastasia✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »I have to say, I am somewhat disappointed by this decision. I really wish ZOS would erect the spine of standing up to the whiners already, but it seems with this company whenever the vocal minority complains they get whatever they want even if it ruins the game for the rest of us.
I will reserve final judgement however until I see how easy they actually make it...
I have felt all along that veteran zones were very well balanced even for solo play. 1-50 was actually boringly easy. I know that the majority of the player base was complaining about it being too hard though, so I understand in a way why ZOS felt the need to abandon their vision and concede defeat to the calls for a difficulty nerf, but still, a bit disappointing.
I honestly feel that part of the blame lies with the players. I think there is some overly stubborn refusal to try new skills and abilities to get through content, and people abuse the "play how you want" cliche to assume the should be able to beat things with fishsticks and win if they want to.
I really hope this isn't the beginning of the dumbing down of Elder Scrolls to WoW faceroll status, but I guess the vocal complaints always get what they want, so it was probably inevitable.
I have already been facerolling content with some minimal CC and actually using the mechanics we are given, and my fear is this will not only abandon the vision of veteran content as end game but also completely trivialize the whole purpose of block and rolldodge mechanics.
Skill? "Ain't no one got time for that!"
I erect the spine of my bruising sense of betrayal.
It will be interesting to see how much more populated the Veteran Zones become after this change.
Oh I am MUCH more interested in watching what the differences are in the population that comes after the lowering of difficulty as they achieve V10-V12.
Of course, if ZOS does not 'tone down' V10 - V12, we may find ourselves at the exact same problem point as was used to decide to make the V+ content more easy. Then what? o-0. I think its fairly obvious already.
Edited by Anastasia on July 4, 2014 2:22PM1 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »i laugh a lot while reading some people sayign "oh no! now the hardcore will leave!...VR areas were deserted and those hardcore disbanding and now the game is gonna have a lot more players and it will be a lot more interesting to play. Many people forget that this is supposed to be an Elder Scrolls, not nother game. The immersion and exploration is the most important, not the difficulty.
Anyway, I would like to know if the rewards will be better and there will be some more soul in npcs and you will have new quests making you feel like you already killed Molag Bal. I guess no, but just asking...
I agree that it's an elder scrolls game, but it's also an mmo.
But this one is different or it should be. It is based in a franchise existing since many years ago, completely established and with a very big fanbase behind. And its an mmo, but should not be another random mmo clone. If not, the name would be another one. But no, the name is Elder Scrolls.
Anyway I don't get the poing of being more mmo or less mmo if the VR are more difficult or less. If you mean, because it forced you to group...well, the whole VR post 5 was a desert and people was grinding Craglorn like mads. So...
It is it's own mmo. Most if not all mmos in recent years have been far to easy. One of the reasons people liked this game is because it wasn't a cookie cutter mmo. I have played other TES games before though. Love the series.
Maybe we were living paralell realities, but the game is almost dying because of the VR thing and mainly the insane difficulty with no reward...incredible.
No the game is dying because of all the bugs. Most people didn't think VR was hard look. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/p1
Most complaints about VR were either
A- That it goes against lore OR
B That it was a grind because you already did this on your chosen faction
Dude...I'm not gonna quote the whole topics here talking about the VR difficulty/boredom....That is just one poll.
Have you read the ZOS post about it? If there was not people complaining, why are they chaging it? I mena, just read the beginning of the post in development section.
Anyway i agree with your two points. But I feel that is more difficult for them to fix. I realy would like them to fix it.
Did you even check the poll? Polls are meant as a representation of what people want. The poll shows that the majority thought VR wasn't difficult.
In case you didn't check here are the results as of me posting this.
Do you think veteran content is too hard?
Yes 38%
No 61%
As you can see the majority don't think it's too hard. Also whose to say no one in this thread hadn't already voted in the poll?
OMFG dude...read:One of the topics we frequentlyget feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.
Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.
Why in the world should a company change someghing if it was not important?
Because of that poll?
...
If you haven't already noticed the devs seem to do the opposite of what people want. Like I said before polls are meant to show what everyone wants. Most people didn't think VR content was difficult. So why don't you READ the results and stop acting like MOST people think VR is hard when the majority said it wasn't.
On this forums in general - polls are not done in professional manner. There u have many flaws, most of questions are not precise and are ambiguous , polls are not comprehensive, very opinionated, sample is not statistically reliable so simply u cant use polls as argument at all.
For example "Most people didnt think VR content was difficult".
For me that content is too easy ( dungeons and trials ) but part of that content are mobs in zones and they are way to difficult - so how i should answer on that question. And now i would like to explain me what u mean by difficult ( challenging or problematic ),.........
Its not that simple. Polls are ok as assessment tool if u use them in professional way but if u put some sentences/questions together - its nothing scientific about them and in that case they can be just manipulation and misconception tool.
That's why you have a comment section. A lot of the people who vote in polls still comment explaining more in depth their reason. Yes I agree polls are not done in a professional manner on this forum. However that still doesn't fully disqualify that argument. A lot of people understand what they typically are trying to say.
Polls are scientific tool and therefore we are taking those so seriously. If so then those have to be done properly or disregarded in total. But ok tell me how much of that argument i should take in consideration ? 30% or 60% ?
I am not saying u are not right when u say that difficulty is not problem i just say that u cant take poll results as relevant argument if they are not professionally conducted.
In my opinion there are a lot of elements which combined make vet content . Each element should be measured separately and then weighted according to player priorities if u want to get clear picture what, how and how badly people want .
I think things need to be done like that as well. However we won't get that kind of poll on these forums considering most people on the forums make polls to either stroke their ego or as a joke. I feel like that poll states pretty well what it's trying to find out. Do you think VR is hard yes or no or unsure? Everyone who doesn't think that states what they would like to say, can post in the comments. The devs would most likely look to the comments as well not just the poll.
Taking that into consideration, you may want to go back and actually read the initial replies from a large portion of those that voted No.
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steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭shadowz081 wrote: »Personally, those that whine about this just need to L2P...The only weapons that might makes it harder to take down group of mobs is a bow and resto staff, and even than it mostly depends on what skills you have on your bar.
Well, it sucks to be you then because the Zenimax business guys want as many paying customers as they can get and their numbers have spoken. The L2P crowd aren't paying the bills.
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Anastasia✭✭✭✭We will never find out who enters VR zones due to this change and who enters them, just because they reached VR1 now. In my guild we have 5 people that just hit VR1, but they all would have gone to the VR zones, even without that change.
To conclude, that higher numbers are only due to the change, won't be correct. Nevertheless, I can allready see the comments stating out, that now the VR zones are so much more populated due to this change.
Heh heh. Oh YES, we WILL be able to tell.
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Anastasia✭✭✭✭i laugh a lot while reading some people sayign "oh no! now the hardcore will leave!...VR areas were deserted and those hardcore disbanding and now the game is gonna have a lot more players and it will be a lot more interesting to play. Many people forget that this is supposed to be an Elder Scrolls, not nother game. The immersion and exploration is the most important, not the difficulty.
Anyway, I would like to know if the rewards will be better and there will be some more soul in npcs and you will have new quests making you feel like you already killed Molag Bal. I guess no, but just asking...
I agree that it's an elder scrolls game, but it's also an mmo.
But this one is different or it should be. It is based in a franchise existing since many years ago, completely established and with a very big fanbase behind. And its an mmo, but should not be another random mmo clone. If not, the name would be another one. But no, the name is Elder Scrolls.
Anyway I don't get the poing of being more mmo or less mmo if the VR are more difficult or less. If you mean, because it forced you to group...well, the whole VR post 5 was a desert and people was grinding Craglorn like mads. So...
It is it's own mmo. Most if not all mmos in recent years have been far to easy. One of the reasons people liked this game is because it wasn't a cookie cutter mmo. I have played other TES games before though. Love the series.
Maybe we were living paralell realities, but the game is almost dying because of the VR thing and mainly the insane difficulty with no reward...incredible.
No the game is dying because of all the bugs. Most people didn't think VR was hard look. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/p1
Most complaints about VR were either
A- That it goes against lore OR
B That it was a grind because you already did this on your chosen faction
Dude...I'm not gonna quote the whole topics here talking about the VR difficulty/boredom....That is just one poll.
Have you read the ZOS post about it? If there was not people complaining, why are they chaging it? I mena, just read the beginning of the post in development section.
Anyway i agree with your two points. But I feel that is more difficult for them to fix. I realy would like them to fix it.
One point RazielSR: "That is just one poll. Have you read the ZOS post about it? If there was not people complaining, why are they changing it?" does NOT lead logically or definitively to the next: "If there was not people complaining,"
"why are they changing it?"
Literally have you not at least had the thought float through your mind that perhaps THIS sort of change is more EXPEDIENT for them for the time being, amidst all of the things they are facing and of which take a LOT MORE time, effort, manpower, and MONEY to correct or adjust?
This is only an initial step; what happens Monday is the BEGINNING of adjustments to difficulty in the V+ content. The changes will be spread out over weeks/possibly longer and light can be brought to bear on the 'new' changes, deflecting some of the other complaints.
Do you not think just maybe this is something which will bounce the focus of some players off of the other issues/alleviate some of the pressure, thus allowing for more time to figure out which of the other issues they desire to change and whether they are going to or not??
Edited by Anastasia on July 4, 2014 2:44PM1 -
Ojustaboo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Zenimax is fixing the obscene difficulty of VR content. That will get people to come back to ESO. This is a joyous moment for all. So when is update 3?
No, Zenimax listened to those playerswho vocally let their dissatisfaction with VR be heard.
Now you will get another group being just as vocal, those that liked the difficulty. And you will get many of them leaving if it's dummed down.
Vet levels had serious problems in my opinion, I think the difficulty found by some is only a tiny part of it and I think that was amplified by its other design issues.
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steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭No, Zenimax listened to those playerswho vocally let their dissatisfaction with VR be heard.
Now you will get another group being just as vocal, those that liked the difficulty. And you will get many of them leaving if it's dummed down.
Zenimax listened to neither and will continue to listen to neither. The looked at their metrics, didn't like what they saw and acted upon what their analysts inferred was the problem.
What a relative handful of forum posters say either way does not enter into it.
Honestly - do people really think multi-billion dollar companies run themselves according to the opinions of a bunch of forum yahoo's?
EDITED TO ADD:
What they listened to was the sound of subs being cancelled and the reasons given. What they listened to was the data showing how many people stopped playing at L50. etc etc.Edited by steveb16_ESO46 on July 4, 2014 3:00PM6 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Zenimax is fixing the obscene difficulty of VR content. That will get people to come back to ESO. This is a joyous moment for all. So when is update 3?
No, Zenimax listened to those playerswho vocally let their dissatisfaction with VR be heard.
Now you will get another group being just as vocal, those that liked the difficulty. And you will get many of them leaving if it's dummed down.
Vet levels had serious problems in my opinion, I think the difficulty found by some is only a tiny part of it and I think that was amplified by its other design issues.
This game cannot afford to lose anyone at the moment. As much as I disagree with many people here, my main focus and cause for concern has always been the player base population. I don't want to see anyone leave. ZoS has taken a calculated risk here. They believe that a larger % of people will come back or stay due to a slight nerf compared to the % of players that will leave bacause of it. And I agree with them. Many people that really enjoy super challenging content can still find it elsewhere in the game.
So while some "hard mode" players may leave, most will just grumble about it and just spend more time in vet dungeons. What they need to do right now is increase the rewards and incentives for those dungeons. I believe that is coming though if I recall what was said in the road ahead thread.
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Ojustaboo✭✭✭✭✭
✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Honestly - do people really think multi-billion dollar companies run themselves according to the opinions of a bunch of forum yahoo's?
Well looking at other games such as Lotro, sadly I think many of them do.
The one fight that made me think this game was for me, giving me the desire to preorder, was Doshia.
2 nerfs later I haven't yet found anyone that thinks the current version is very good or fun at all.
Only logical reason for them changing it was listening to, as you put it, the forum yahoo's
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Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Honestly - do people really think multi-billion dollar companies run themselves according to the opinions of a bunch of forum yahoo's?
Well looking at other games such as Lotro, sadly I think many of them do.
The one fight that made me think this game was for me, giving me the desire to preorder, was Doshia.
2 nerfs later I haven't yet found anyone that thinks the current version is very good or fun at all.
Only logical reason for them changing it was listening to, as you put it, the forum yahoo's
The Doshia fight is a perfect example of how ZoS responds to the majority numbers and here is why:
In a podcast I listened to a long time ago. (either late beta or early launch) One of the developers was a guest. It was either Paul Sage or Mike F. Don't recall which. But the Doshia fight was brought up. It was brought up that many people found it too hard. The developer said that while feedback is important, they don't make any changes until they have the actual numbers. The host said "what do you mean by numbers"?
The Dev said that they can access the statistics for every single boss fight. They can see how many times that boss was attempted in relation to how many times that boss died. Therefore they get a 100% accurate demographic on how challenging the bosses are to the entire player base. He wouldn't disclose the actual numbers, but he said that if the boss deaths in relation to player deaths reach a higher number, they increase difficulty. On the other hand if the players are dying much more often than the boss, they decrease the difficulty. He also went on to say that they fully expect a player do die "a few" times.
So while there is a certain % of people on both sides of the scale. ZoS reacts to averages. While you (and possibly me) now consider that fight to be easy, the vast majority of paying customers must find it about right. I am certain they are using the same kind of numbers to make most of their decisions.
Edited by Alphashado on July 4, 2014 3:16PM4 -
born2beagator✭✭✭✭Well to me, the L2P'ers are the forum yahoos. We could go round and round here
This despite what you think, ZOS did not make this game to only to attract those that want dark souls: tamrielEdited by born2beagator on July 4, 2014 3:22PM3 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭
Only logical reason for them changing it was listening to, as you put it, the forum yahoo's
Then your logic is deficient. Companies run on plans and metrics and have hundreds of MBA's for that purpose. Their logical reason for the change is that the evidence suggests they can earn more money by doing so.
LOTRO went the way it did because WB wanted more profit from less investment. And I guess in those terms it is successful. It keeps going. It keeps getting people to pay huge sums for dreadful content.
I left LOTRO with Helms deep but all my friends there stayed because whatever else you cn say about LOTRO it is a very social MMO. The husband and wife leaders of my kinship there were enthusiastic about ESO but then discovered they wouldn't in practice be able to group, there were no guild or rp facilities and left.
Edited by steveb16_ESO46 on July 4, 2014 3:26PM2 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »
Then your logic is deficient. Companies run on plans and metrics and have hundreds of MBA's for that purpose. Their logical reason for the change is that the evidence suggests they can earn more money by doing so.
Are those the same MBA's (whatever they are) that convinced WOW to tone down the difficulty to the lowest skilled players and lost them 5 million customers?Edited by Hilgara on July 4, 2014 3:25PM3 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭Probably not. As i have no knowledge of or interest in WoW I wouldn't know. however I do know that correlation does not equal causation. But if you have proof that the change was directly responsible for the fall by all means produce it.
Edited to add: Statista shows a woW sub peak of 12 million in 2010 and now it is 8 million.Edited by steveb16_ESO46 on July 4, 2014 3:38PM1 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alphashado wrote: »
Then your logic is deficient. Companies run on plans and metrics and have hundreds of MBA's for that purpose. Their logical reason for the change is that the evidence suggests they can earn more money by doing so.
Are those the same MBA's (whatever they are) that convinced WOW to tone down the difficulty to the lowest skilled players and lost them 5 million customers?
Those are not my words Hilgara. Please at least be professional enough to make sure the name you quote is the name assosiated with the actual words.
That being said, you yourself, many many times have said that ZoS has the numbers and will act accordingly. I can supply you a couple of your own quotes if you like.
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Raash✭✭✭✭While i agree its awesome they gonna make an attempt to change vet areas im not as sure it is the right changes. I would rather see new lvl 50 adventure zones for players to explore and have fun in while gaining vet ranks and having these other alliances-things optional content for those that are intereseted in doing them.0
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steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭While i agree its awesome they gonna make an attempt to change vet areas im not as sure it is the right changes. I would rather see new lvl 50 adventure zones for players to explore and have fun in while gaining vet ranks and having these other alliances-things optional content for those that are intereseted in doing them.
Sure. But if subs are being cancelled now, if people are stopping playing now then they need to do something now.3 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »
Those are not my words Hilgara. Please at least be professional enough to make sure the name you quote is the name assosiated with the actual words.
Profesional...sorry I don't know it was a job, You can bring it up in my appraisal review if you likeAlphashado wrote: »That being said, you yourself, many many times have said that ZoS has the numbers and will act accordingly. I can supply you a couple of your own quotes if you like.
Yep and I was hoping they would avoid the trap that WOW fell into. I'm actually not that concerned about the changes (which none of us have experienced yet) If the numbers do show that more people are struggling than those that arent then for the good of the game I support the changes (plus I already have 2 chars all the way through) As long as this trend doesnt continue because in another thread on here theres a guy can't get out of the story line quests 1 to 50 who thinks the game should cater for him too. There has to be a line in the sand.Edited by Hilgara on July 4, 2014 3:42PM1 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alphashado wrote: »
Those are not my words Hilgara. Please at least be professional enough to make sure the name you quote is the name assosiated with the actual words.
Profesional...sorry I don't know it was a job, You can bring it up in my appraisal review if you likeAlphashado wrote: »That being said, you yourself, many many times have said that ZoS has the numbers and will act accordingly. I can supply you a couple of your own quotes if you like.
Yep and I was hoping they would avoid the trap that WOW fell into. I'm actually not that concerned about the changes (which none of us have experienced yet) If the numbers do show that more people are struggling than those that arent then for the good of the game I support the changes (plus I already have 2 chars all the way through) As long as this trend doesnt continue because in another thread on here theres a guy can't get out of the story line quests 1 to 50 who thinks the game should cater for him too. There has to be a line in the sand.
Yes I agree there has to be a line in the sand. But my personal opinion is that patching the biggest holes first is the most prudent method to prevent a ship from sinking. The numbers they use clearly suggested this was a big hole. Will it create additional smaller holes? Perhaps. But as long as the ship is still floating, you will have time to fix smaller holes.
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