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Thank you for finally listening
-
i laugh a lot while reading some people sayign "oh no! now the hardcore will leave!...VR areas were deserted and those hardcore disbanding and now the game is gonna have a lot more players and it will be a lot more interesting to play. Many people forget that this is supposed to be an Elder Scrolls, not nother game. The immersion and exploration is the most important, not the difficulty.
Anyway, I would like to know if the rewards will be better and there will be some more soul in npcs and you will have new quests making you feel like you already killed Molag Bal. I guess no, but just asking...
I agree that it's an elder scrolls game, but it's also an mmo.
But this one is different or it should be. It is based in a franchise existing since many years ago, completely established and with a very big fanbase behind. And its an mmo, but should not be another random mmo clone. If not, the name would be another one. But no, the name is Elder Scrolls.
Anyway I don't get the poing of being more mmo or less mmo if the VR are more difficult or less. If you mean, because it forced you to group...well, the whole VR post 5 was a desert and people was grinding Craglorn like mads. So...
It is it's own mmo. Most if not all mmos in recent years have been far to easy. One of the reasons people liked this game is because it wasn't a cookie cutter mmo. I have played other TES games before though. Love the series.
Maybe we were living paralell realities, but the game is almost dying because of the VR thing and mainly the insane difficulty with no reward...incredible.
No the game is dying because of all the bugs. Most people didn't think VR was hard look. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/p1
Most complaints about VR were either
A- That it goes against lore OR
B That it was a grind because you already did this on your chosen faction
Dude...I'm not gonna quote the whole topics here talking about the VR difficulty/boredom....That is just one poll.
Have you read the ZOS post about it? If there was not people complaining, why are they chaging it? I mena, just read the beginning of the post in development section.
Anyway i agree with your two points. But I feel that is more difficult for them to fix. I realy would like them to fix it.
Did you even check the poll? Polls are meant as a representation of what people want. The poll shows that the majority thought VR wasn't difficult.
In case you didn't check here are the results as of me posting this.
Do you think veteran content is too hard?
Yes 38%
No 61%
As you can see the majority don't think it's too hard. Also whose to say no one in this thread hadn't already voted in the poll?
OMFG dude...read:One of the topics we frequentlyget feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.
Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.
Why in the world should a company change someghing if it was not important?
Because of that poll?
...
If you haven't already noticed the devs seem to do the opposite of what people want. Like I said before polls are meant to show what everyone wants. Most people didn't think VR content was difficult. So why don't you READ the results and stop acting like MOST people think VR is hard when the majority said it wasn't.
On this forums in general - polls are not done in professional manner. There u have many flaws, most of questions are not precise and are ambiguous , polls are not comprehensive, very opinionated, sample is not statistically reliable so simply u cant use polls as argument at all.
For example "Most people didnt think VR content was difficult".
For me that content is too easy ( dungeons and trials ) but part of that content are mobs in zones and they are way to difficult - so how i should answer on that question. And now i would like to explain me what u mean by difficult ( challenging or problematic ),.........
Its not that simple. Polls are ok as assessment tool if u use them in professional way but if u put some sentences/questions together - its nothing scientific about them and in that case they can be just manipulation and misconception tool.
0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »To get VR xp they should improve Cyrodiil, more xp for kill players, more xp for capture keeps, more and more interesting quests, etc.
If they're nerfing Vet zone to kindergarten difficulty like 1-50 then, yes, they absolutely must make levelling VR via PvP viable. Very viable.
I still don't understand why they have to do this. If people are that bad they can't solo the Vet content then they're not going to be able to PvP or other endgame content (unless they nerf dungeons). They won't last 2 seconds. They could just roll an alt and level 1-50 in the other factions to experience the content Why do these people want to reach VR12? What is the point for them? Genuine question.
Maybe, the people just want to feel they are playing an Elder Scrolls game and not your new grinding eve online tamrielic version. This is Elder Scrolls, the difficulty is not the most important. Immersion, exploration and good quests are the most important. This is not Dark Souls or another game that has nothing more to offer than to die 1000 times with the same dungeon rat.
Its EASY to understand. People LOVED the game 1-50, then the VAST MAJORITY of people hate the game post 50 and left. So, you do the math.
People liked 1-50 because the story still made sense, character progression was at a good pace and it felt rewarding.
Unfortunately that all goes haywire once you hit VR.
But at least, VR will be more interesting now.
Less difficult equals more interesting?4 -
ferzalrwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Malpherian wrote: »Those of you who are saying this is a bad idea for group based content concerning VR are not wrong... However...
That being said,
You have to have people actually playing in the VR areas, in order to get any type of group. Which is currently, NOT happening, the VR areas are ghost towns with no one doing the VR stuff because of the difficulty level even "if" and "while" attempting it in groups. Let alone the nightmare it is for solo individuals without a very specific Cookie Cutter Build. (Which goes against the "Play the game as whatever you want" mentality of ESO anyway).
As others have said, having to adapt is one thing, being forced to entirely respec your class to one of a very few set of very specific rotations builds and gear sets utterly destroys the point of the customizable play as you want system which ESO touts.
So either way the current VR system is utterly broken, and this change is undoubtedly a good one..
Man.... if you can't get through VR with any build in any gear... get some friends in game or give up MMO gaming. I know it's not a popular thing to say but sometimes the truth just has to come out. It's doable by anyone remotely coordinated. You'd have to be in the bottom 3 or 4 percent of players or... be really, really impatient and too stubborn to learn to press block and dodge.2 -
Corew✭✭✭
I doubt they'll nerf it further after monday but make it more interesting/rewarding instead, guess we'll know more after QuakeCon.
1 -
brandon✭✭✭✭tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »i laugh a lot while reading some people sayign "oh no! now the hardcore will leave!...VR areas were deserted and those hardcore disbanding and now the game is gonna have a lot more players and it will be a lot more interesting to play. Many people forget that this is supposed to be an Elder Scrolls, not nother game. The immersion and exploration is the most important, not the difficulty.
Anyway, I would like to know if the rewards will be better and there will be some more soul in npcs and you will have new quests making you feel like you already killed Molag Bal. I guess no, but just asking...
I agree that it's an elder scrolls game, but it's also an mmo.
But this one is different or it should be. It is based in a franchise existing since many years ago, completely established and with a very big fanbase behind. And its an mmo, but should not be another random mmo clone. If not, the name would be another one. But no, the name is Elder Scrolls.
Anyway I don't get the poing of being more mmo or less mmo if the VR are more difficult or less. If you mean, because it forced you to group...well, the whole VR post 5 was a desert and people was grinding Craglorn like mads. So...
It is it's own mmo. Most if not all mmos in recent years have been far to easy. One of the reasons people liked this game is because it wasn't a cookie cutter mmo. I have played other TES games before though. Love the series.
Maybe we were living paralell realities, but the game is almost dying because of the VR thing and mainly the insane difficulty with no reward...incredible.
No the game is dying because of all the bugs. Most people didn't think VR was hard look. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/p1
Most complaints about VR were either
A- That it goes against lore OR
B That it was a grind because you already did this on your chosen faction
Dude...I'm not gonna quote the whole topics here talking about the VR difficulty/boredom....That is just one poll.
Have you read the ZOS post about it? If there was not people complaining, why are they chaging it? I mena, just read the beginning of the post in development section.
Anyway i agree with your two points. But I feel that is more difficult for them to fix. I realy would like them to fix it.
Did you even check the poll? Polls are meant as a representation of what people want. The poll shows that the majority thought VR wasn't difficult.
In case you didn't check here are the results as of me posting this.
Do you think veteran content is too hard?
Yes 38%
No 61%
As you can see the majority don't think it's too hard. Also whose to say no one in this thread hadn't already voted in the poll?
OMFG dude...read:One of the topics we frequentlyget feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.
Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.
Why in the world should a company change someghing if it was not important?
Because of that poll?
...
If you haven't already noticed the devs seem to do the opposite of what people want. Like I said before polls are meant to show what everyone wants. Most people didn't think VR content was difficult. So why don't you READ the results and stop acting like MOST people think VR is hard when the majority said it wasn't.
On this forums in general - polls are not done in professional manner. There u have many flaws, most of questions are not precise and are ambiguous , polls are not comprehensive, very opinionated, sample is not statistically reliable so simply u cant use polls as argument at all.
For example "Most people didnt think VR content was difficult".
For me that content is too easy ( dungeons and trials ) but part of that content are mobs in zones and they are way to difficult - so how i should answer on that question. And now i would like to explain me what u mean by difficult ( challenging or problematic ),.........
Its not that simple. Polls are ok as assessment tool if u use them in professional way but if u put some sentences/questions together - its nothing scientific about them and in that case they can be just manipulation and misconception tool.
That's why you have a comment section. A lot of the people who vote in polls still comment explaining more in depth their reason. Yes I agree polls are not done in a professional manner on this forum. However that still doesn't fully disqualify that argument. A lot of people understand what they typically are trying to say.Edited by brandon on July 4, 2014 9:36AM1 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Malpherian wrote: »
So either way the current VR system is utterly broken, and this change is undoubtedly a good one..You have to have people actually playing in the VR areas, in order to get any type of group. Which is currently, NOT happening, the VR areas are ghost towns with no one doing the VR stuff because of the difficulty level even "if" and "while" attempting it in groups.
You are wrong with that assumption.
People don't do VR zones because they are either not there yet or because Craglorn is an exploit zone where the XP is much higher.
Difficulty isn't a problem, quite the opposite actually. People that do VR´s do it for the challenge and the ability to play with others while still feeling challenged. Look at all the Healer and Tanky specs in future, they will become obsolete in the open world, which will lead to a massive decline and therefore will cause many problems for trials and dungeons.As others have said, having to adapt is one thing, being forced to entirely respec your class to one of a very few set of very specific rotations builds and gear sets utterly destroys the point of the customizable play as you want system which ESO touts.
As soon you do PVP or Trials, you will be forced to respect. So don't you think its a smart idea to slowly show people in the VR zones that this is a part of MMO´s - that you adjust to the situation you are in?
All those people will be hit with a sledgehammer once they reach VR 12, as now they must play specs that they never played before, they will need to find people to play with based on an empty friends list etc.
Edited by Audigy on July 4, 2014 9:41AM3 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Malpherian wrote: »
So either way the current VR system is utterly broken, and this change is undoubtedly a good one..You have to have people actually playing in the VR areas, in order to get any type of group. Which is currently, NOT happening, the VR areas are ghost towns with no one doing the VR stuff because of the difficulty level even "if" and "while" attempting it in groups.
You are wrong with that assumption.
People don't do VR zones because they are either not there yet or because Craglorn is an exploit zone where the XP is much higher.
Difficulty isn't a problem, quite the opposite actually. People that do VR´s do it for the challenge and the ability to play with others while still feeling challenged. Look at all the Healer and Tanky specs in future, they will become obsolete in the open world, which will lead to a massive decline and therefore will cause many problems for trials and dungeons.As others have said, having to adapt is one thing, being forced to entirely respec your class to one of a very few set of very specific rotations builds and gear sets utterly destroys the point of the customizable play as you want system which ESO touts.
As soon you do PVP or Trials, you will be forced to respect. So don't you think its a smart idea to slowly show people in the VR zones that this is a part of MMO´s - that you adjust to the situation you are in?
All those people will be hit with a sledgehammer once they reach VR 12, as now they must play specs that they never played before, they will need to find people to play with based on an empty friends list etc.
Don't worry the nerf gun will be aimed at trials and dungeons next. What do you think everyone is going to do when they finish their VR12 alone? They are going to be bored and looking for something to do. And as you pointed out the only thing left to do maybe to hard for them, next wave of QQ incoming.3 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »
Don't worry the nerf gun will be aimed at trials and dungeons next. What do you think everyone is going to do when they finish their VR12 alone? They are going to be bored and looking for something to do. And as you pointed out the only thing left to do maybe to hard for them, next wave of QQ incoming.
Yup. ZoS has lowered the first hurdle for those that couldn't get over it but what about the next? The trails are gonna come as just as much a shock to them as going from 50 to vet.Edited by Hilgara on July 4, 2014 9:50AM2 -
brandon✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »
Don't worry the nerf gun will be aimed at trials and dungeons next. What do you think everyone is going to do when they finish their VR12 alone? They are going to be bored and looking for something to do. And as you pointed out the only thing left to do maybe to hard for them, next wave of QQ incoming.
Yup. ZoS has lowered the first hurdle for those that couldn't get over it but what about the next? The trails are gonna come as just as much a shock to them as going from 50 to vet.
I can't wait to find out what they cry about after trials
Edited by brandon on July 4, 2014 9:51AM3 -
tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »i laugh a lot while reading some people sayign "oh no! now the hardcore will leave!...VR areas were deserted and those hardcore disbanding and now the game is gonna have a lot more players and it will be a lot more interesting to play. Many people forget that this is supposed to be an Elder Scrolls, not nother game. The immersion and exploration is the most important, not the difficulty.
Anyway, I would like to know if the rewards will be better and there will be some more soul in npcs and you will have new quests making you feel like you already killed Molag Bal. I guess no, but just asking...
I agree that it's an elder scrolls game, but it's also an mmo.
But this one is different or it should be. It is based in a franchise existing since many years ago, completely established and with a very big fanbase behind. And its an mmo, but should not be another random mmo clone. If not, the name would be another one. But no, the name is Elder Scrolls.
Anyway I don't get the poing of being more mmo or less mmo if the VR are more difficult or less. If you mean, because it forced you to group...well, the whole VR post 5 was a desert and people was grinding Craglorn like mads. So...
It is it's own mmo. Most if not all mmos in recent years have been far to easy. One of the reasons people liked this game is because it wasn't a cookie cutter mmo. I have played other TES games before though. Love the series.
Maybe we were living paralell realities, but the game is almost dying because of the VR thing and mainly the insane difficulty with no reward...incredible.
No the game is dying because of all the bugs. Most people didn't think VR was hard look. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/p1
Most complaints about VR were either
A- That it goes against lore OR
B That it was a grind because you already did this on your chosen faction
Dude...I'm not gonna quote the whole topics here talking about the VR difficulty/boredom....That is just one poll.
Have you read the ZOS post about it? If there was not people complaining, why are they chaging it? I mena, just read the beginning of the post in development section.
Anyway i agree with your two points. But I feel that is more difficult for them to fix. I realy would like them to fix it.
Did you even check the poll? Polls are meant as a representation of what people want. The poll shows that the majority thought VR wasn't difficult.
In case you didn't check here are the results as of me posting this.
Do you think veteran content is too hard?
Yes 38%
No 61%
As you can see the majority don't think it's too hard. Also whose to say no one in this thread hadn't already voted in the poll?
OMFG dude...read:One of the topics we frequentlyget feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.
Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.
Why in the world should a company change someghing if it was not important?
Because of that poll?
...
If you haven't already noticed the devs seem to do the opposite of what people want. Like I said before polls are meant to show what everyone wants. Most people didn't think VR content was difficult. So why don't you READ the results and stop acting like MOST people think VR is hard when the majority said it wasn't.
On this forums in general - polls are not done in professional manner. There u have many flaws, most of questions are not precise and are ambiguous , polls are not comprehensive, very opinionated, sample is not statistically reliable so simply u cant use polls as argument at all.
For example "Most people didnt think VR content was difficult".
For me that content is too easy ( dungeons and trials ) but part of that content are mobs in zones and they are way to difficult - so how i should answer on that question. And now i would like to explain me what u mean by difficult ( challenging or problematic ),.........
Its not that simple. Polls are ok as assessment tool if u use them in professional way but if u put some sentences/questions together - its nothing scientific about them and in that case they can be just manipulation and misconception tool.
That's why you have a comment section. A lot of the people who vote in polls still comment explaining more in depth their reason. Yes I agree polls are not done in a professional manner on this forum. However that still doesn't fully disqualify that argument. A lot of people understand what they typically are trying to say.
Polls are scientific tool and therefore we are taking those so seriously. If so then those have to be done properly or disregarded in total. But ok tell me how much of that argument i should take in consideration ? 30% or 60% ?
I am not saying u are not right when u say that difficulty is not problem i just say that u cant take poll results as relevant argument if they are not professionally conducted.
In my opinion there are a lot of elements which combined make vet content . Each element should be measured separately and then weighted according to player priorities if u want to get clear picture what, how and how badly people want .Edited by tino.antoninieb17_ESO on July 4, 2014 9:55AM0 -
brandon✭✭✭✭tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »i laugh a lot while reading some people sayign "oh no! now the hardcore will leave!...VR areas were deserted and those hardcore disbanding and now the game is gonna have a lot more players and it will be a lot more interesting to play. Many people forget that this is supposed to be an Elder Scrolls, not nother game. The immersion and exploration is the most important, not the difficulty.
Anyway, I would like to know if the rewards will be better and there will be some more soul in npcs and you will have new quests making you feel like you already killed Molag Bal. I guess no, but just asking...
I agree that it's an elder scrolls game, but it's also an mmo.
But this one is different or it should be. It is based in a franchise existing since many years ago, completely established and with a very big fanbase behind. And its an mmo, but should not be another random mmo clone. If not, the name would be another one. But no, the name is Elder Scrolls.
Anyway I don't get the poing of being more mmo or less mmo if the VR are more difficult or less. If you mean, because it forced you to group...well, the whole VR post 5 was a desert and people was grinding Craglorn like mads. So...
It is it's own mmo. Most if not all mmos in recent years have been far to easy. One of the reasons people liked this game is because it wasn't a cookie cutter mmo. I have played other TES games before though. Love the series.
Maybe we were living paralell realities, but the game is almost dying because of the VR thing and mainly the insane difficulty with no reward...incredible.
No the game is dying because of all the bugs. Most people didn't think VR was hard look. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/p1
Most complaints about VR were either
A- That it goes against lore OR
B That it was a grind because you already did this on your chosen faction
Dude...I'm not gonna quote the whole topics here talking about the VR difficulty/boredom....That is just one poll.
Have you read the ZOS post about it? If there was not people complaining, why are they chaging it? I mena, just read the beginning of the post in development section.
Anyway i agree with your two points. But I feel that is more difficult for them to fix. I realy would like them to fix it.
Did you even check the poll? Polls are meant as a representation of what people want. The poll shows that the majority thought VR wasn't difficult.
In case you didn't check here are the results as of me posting this.
Do you think veteran content is too hard?
Yes 38%
No 61%
As you can see the majority don't think it's too hard. Also whose to say no one in this thread hadn't already voted in the poll?
OMFG dude...read:One of the topics we frequentlyget feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.
Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.
Why in the world should a company change someghing if it was not important?
Because of that poll?
...
If you haven't already noticed the devs seem to do the opposite of what people want. Like I said before polls are meant to show what everyone wants. Most people didn't think VR content was difficult. So why don't you READ the results and stop acting like MOST people think VR is hard when the majority said it wasn't.
On this forums in general - polls are not done in professional manner. There u have many flaws, most of questions are not precise and are ambiguous , polls are not comprehensive, very opinionated, sample is not statistically reliable so simply u cant use polls as argument at all.
For example "Most people didnt think VR content was difficult".
For me that content is too easy ( dungeons and trials ) but part of that content are mobs in zones and they are way to difficult - so how i should answer on that question. And now i would like to explain me what u mean by difficult ( challenging or problematic ),.........
Its not that simple. Polls are ok as assessment tool if u use them in professional way but if u put some sentences/questions together - its nothing scientific about them and in that case they can be just manipulation and misconception tool.
That's why you have a comment section. A lot of the people who vote in polls still comment explaining more in depth their reason. Yes I agree polls are not done in a professional manner on this forum. However that still doesn't fully disqualify that argument. A lot of people understand what they typically are trying to say.
Polls are scientific tool and therefore we are taking those so seriously. If so then those have to be done properly or disregarded in total. But ok tell me how much of that argument i should take in consideration ? 30% or 60% ?
I am not saying u are not right when u say that difficulty is not problem i just say that u cant take poll results as relevant argument if they are not professionally conducted.
In my opinion there are a lot of elements which combined make vet content . Each element should be measured separately and then weighted according to player priorities if u want to get clear picture what, how and how badly people want .
I think things need to be done like that as well. However we won't get that kind of poll on these forums considering most people on the forums make polls to either stroke their ego or as a joke. I feel like that poll states pretty well what it's trying to find out. Do you think VR is hard yes or no or unsure? Everyone who doesn't think that states what they would like to say, can post in the comments. The devs would most likely look to the comments as well not just the poll.Edited by brandon on July 4, 2014 10:00AM1 -
Horrum✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »
Don't worry the nerf gun will be aimed at trials and dungeons next. What do you think everyone is going to do when they finish their VR12 alone? They are going to be bored and looking for something to do. And as you pointed out the only thing left to do maybe to hard for them, next wave of QQ incoming.
Yup. ZoS has lowered the first hurdle for those that couldn't get over it but what about the next? The trails are gonna come as just as much a shock to them as going from 50 to vet.
I can't wait to find out what they cry about after trials
Just... no. Trials, just like end-game dungeons and raids in other MMOs, are known to be really hard and a challenge as that is their purpose for being in the game. Every MMO I've played required the use of raidcall or TS etc to coordinate the few or 10s of people in those cases as they were difficult and couldn't just be pugged. However, the journey to reaching max-level never required me to group up for trash and that is how it should be. While I have no problems soloing the VR areas, likely due to my accidentally acceptable build, the VR content is literally 2/3 of the questing content and should not require any build to have to perma-group.
Edited by Horrum on July 4, 2014 10:18AM2 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just... no. Trials, just like end-game dungeons and raids in other MMOs, are known to be really hard and a challenge as that is their purpose for being in the game. Every MMO I've played required the use of raidcall or TS etc to coordinate the few or 10s of people in those cases as they were difficult and couldn't just be pugged.
Not many MMOs you played huh?
We did Raid Vanilla WOW completely without TS or any type of Voice tool, simply by typing it down. That said, the average skill level of a player was already very high due the 3 months leveling process with many challenges on the way.
People just knew what to do and did not need someone shouting orders at them.
Besides that, Dungeons and Raids are not what an MMO should be all about. Again you don't know the history of MMO´s but just WOW today but I can assure you that in no traditional MMO players were told to go to a dungeon or raid to experience a challenge.
These things were additions to the game, while the main focus was on the MMO in the open world.However, the journey to reaching max-level never required me to group up for trash and that is how it should be.
Again you are wrong.
There isn't an MMO that did not require social activities during the leveling process, on release. Even WOW had it, SWTOR did, Warhammer or EQ. Its a standard procedure, that's why its called an MMO and not an SRPG.
Your lack of knowledge doesn't make things right, keep that in mind.
In the end the next target are Trials and Dungeons which is understandable. People wont learn how to play with others, how to play their class and then at VR 12 they will run into a brick wall and complain again. The biggest mistake any MMO can do is removing group activity and challenges as people wont know what hit them once they are "ready" to enter PVP or Dungeons and Raids. We all saw this at WOW and we will see it again at ESO, at least those that stick with it.
I think its a real shame that this has now happened, ZO had other intentions with ESO but as always a vocal minority has more to say than a playing majority.Edited by Audigy on July 4, 2014 10:30AM6 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Not at all, the rationale for the VR experience is fine, the basis the game provides for it is perfectly plausible and allows those who don't want to roll alts to see all the content on one character.People liked 1-50 because the story still made sense, character progression was at a good pace and it felt rewarding.
Unfortunately that all goes haywire once you hit VR.
You don't get to make that call for anyone but yourself. For me it's a transparently lazy and asinine device that both insults my intelligence and cheapens the character experience.2 -
Horrum✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
Agreed. I can't understand how people feel that a glance at their friend-list, forums or other websites will give them more insight into the IP's performance than Zen's auditors, reporting services, tracking, retention team, etc.
If they made this decision, they made it knowing that the number of people this will upset is far smaller than the number of people that will stay or return. It is a highly successful business. I think they know what they are doing. Don't like where it's going? Well, I used to like Facebook but after a few changes I closed my account and never looked back. They did not require my ignorant point of view on their product. Screaming "the masses will flee" is not constructive.3 -
seneferab16_ESO✭✭✭I feel like that poll states pretty well what it's trying to find out. Do you think VR is hard yes or no or unsure? Everyone who doesn't think that states what they would like to say, can post in the comments. The devs would most likely look to the comments as well not just the poll.
I get what you mean, but devs will not, and should not look at any of the polls made here on the forums for several reasons. The most obvious ones are:
1. Forumites are a very small part of the playerbase and can in no way serve as a representation of it as a whole. The forumite will be vocal about things he/she does/does not like, the average player will silently continue/quit playing.
2. Unless it's up there at the top of the page where everybody can see it and easily click their answer without having to click a link what will most likely be yet another poll about vet content it will get scewed statistics. You are more likely to have the vocal minority click and vote on every single of these polls than the majority, as they've already done it fifteen times in other threads and can't be bothered anymore.
3. No one reads comments unless they are using them to argue in. If you are doing a poll you're only after the statistics, not bickering. If you want to know why people answered the way they did, you add subpolls.
Sorry for poor english.Aerin Treerunner, pre dinner snack0 -
Horrum✭✭✭Just... no. Trials, just like end-game dungeons and raids in other MMOs, are known to be really hard and a challenge as that is their purpose for being in the game. Every MMO I've played required the use of raidcall or TS etc to coordinate the few or 10s of people in those cases as they were difficult and couldn't just be pugged.
etc.
Hmmm. I think you missed the point of my post. If I was unclear I apologise.
I don't think people will whine about trials as it is designed to be group content, hard and entirely optional. A large part of the journey to max level is usually quite soloable, but still requires occasional or frequent grouping instead of permanent grouping. Perhaps you had a different experience. So be it.
As for the rest of your asinine assumptions about me... sure
Edited by Horrum on July 4, 2014 10:43AM1 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭
Agreed. I can't understand how people feel that a glance at their friend-list, forums or other websites will give them more insight into the IP's performance than Zen's auditors, reporting services, tracking, retention team, etc.
Yep. MMO's are mature businesses and Zenimax investors put a LOT of money into this. They know how to monitor and project income. They will have had Plans A-D ready to cover eventualities.
Now their projections aren't looking good, they know the reasons and they are trying to act on it. And they will keep making changes until their accountants are happy.
For me games need balance. Leaving aside the idiocy of the whole VR hand-waving, ESO clearly was not balanced.
Tuning VR for groups while the phase engine throws every obstacle it can in the way of grouping was a bad decision.
Tuning VR difficulty to a level that alienated a considerable section of your customer base was a bad decision.
The answer is to provide a range of content. Proper group content with optional hard mode difficulty levels for those that want it. Decent rewards for doing group content.
They made a big mistake and are taking steps to rectify it. Will it be enough? customer expenditure patterns will tell.
As the whole VR hand-waving excuse is a big obstacle for me, I'm not yet sure what I'll do. But I'm a lot more optimistic than I was.
And yes - all the L2P types hurling their insults and telling the rest of us to take a hike now have their own decisions to make.Edited by steveb16_ESO46 on July 4, 2014 10:50AM3 -
Horrum✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
Agreed. I can't understand how people feel that a glance at their friend-list, forums or other websites will give them more insight into the IP's performance than Zen's auditors, reporting services, tracking, retention team, etc.
Yep. MMO's are mature businesses and Zenimax investors put a LOT of money into this. They know how to monitor and project income. They will have had Plans A-D ready to cover eventualities.
Now their projections aren't looking good, they know the reasons and they are trying to act on it. And they will keep making changes until their accountants are happy.
For me games need balance. Leaving aside the idiocy of the whole VR hand-waving, ESO clearly was not balanced.
Tuning VR for groups while the phase engine throws every obstacle it can in the way of grouping was a bad decision.
Tuning VR difficulty to a level that alienated a considerable section of your customer base was a bad decision.
The answer is to provide a range of content. Proper group content with optional hard mode difficulty levels for those that want it. Decent rewards for doing group content.
They made a big mistake and are taking steps to rectify it. Will it be enough? customer expenditure patterns will tell.
As the whole VR hand-waving excuse is a big obstacle for me, I'm not yet sure what I'll do. But I'm a lot more optimistic than I was.
And yes - all the L2P types hurling their insults and telling the rest of us to take a hike now have their own decisions to make.
Absolutely agree and I expect the game to change quite a bit still (no surprise there). I do however feel sorry for them. When I look at the game and consider its size and complexity (uneducated opinion here - developers will know better), it's easy to see how making even a small change may not be easy as well as have plenty of knock-on effects. Dunno.1 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
Now their projections aren't looking good, they know the reasons and they are trying to act on it. And they will keep making changes until their accountants are happy.
.
I remember when games were made by enthusiast and not accountants. I miss those days.
Edited by Hilgara on July 4, 2014 11:15AM1 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭
I remember when games were made by enthusiast and not accountants. I miss those days.
True, LOTRO being a real case in point.
But sometimes it's accountants or nothing - like with STO. And to be fair - PW are doing a much better job with STO than the previous lot. You just have to be prepared to spend money.
But for better or worse, MMO's are huge businesses and a game with huge development costs will have to cater for the biggest market possible. It seems ESO has decided it cannot just cater for one market segment.
But until we actually see the changes we don't know. It might all be flim-flam marketing talk and won't address the actual issues. Or it may go too far.
Edited by steveb16_ESO46 on July 4, 2014 11:28AM0 -
Dayv✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »[quoldn't te="Loco_Mofo;1073280"]ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »To get VR xp they should improve Cyrodiil, more xp for kill players, more xp for capture keeps, more and more interesting quests, etc.
If they're nerfing Vet zone to kindergarten difficulty like 1-50 then, yes, they absolutely must make levelling VR via PvP viable. Very viable.
I still don't understand why they have to do this. If people are that bad they can't solo the Vet content then they're not going to be able to PvP or other endgame content (unless they nerf dungeons). They won't last 2 seconds. They could just roll an alt and level 1-50 in the other factions to experience the content Why do these people want to reach VR12? What is the point for them? Genuine question.
Maybe, the people just want to feel they are playing an Elder Scrolls game and not your new grinding eve online tamrielic version. This is Elder Scrolls, the difficulty is not the most important. Immersion, exploration and good quests are the most important. This is not Dark Souls or another game that has nothing more to offer than to die 1000 times with the same dungeon rat.
Its EASY to understand. People LOVED the game 1-50, then the VAST MAJORITY of people hate the game post 50 and left. So, you do the math.
People liked 1-50 because the story still made sense, character progression was at a good pace and it felt rewarding.
Unfortunately that all goes haywire once you hit VR.
But at least, VR will be more interesting now.
Less difficult equals more interesting?[/quote]
Try going about daily life with your shoelaces tied together. It wouldn't make like more interesting, it would become tedious very quickly.1 -
Winnower✭✭✭✭This is very disappointing.
People can't seem to get the point that they wanted to encourage grouping in Veteran content. Veteran zones are *easy* if you have even 2 people; 3-4 is once again faceroll on everything.
Nerfing the "difficulty" is not the way to fix what is wrong with veteran zones. Making the leveling faster by giving out more xp, yes. Make the gear more "fun" and rewarding, yes.
It will be MORE of a grind with no challenge than doing it as it is now. Kill after tedious kill with not even having to think, dragging on into eternity.
It is not currently a grind. It's a challenge. There is a difference. The boss mobs on levels 1-50 have already been nerfed down to minimum difficulty.
Leaving the difficulty up would, over time, have engendered Respect for this game in the gaming world. Making it into a no challenge MMO like SW:TOR / LoTRO / WoW isn't going to impress anyone.
The complaining soloers will now run through your content, and finding nothing else to do and *still* not wanting to group, will leave while continuing to scream about lack of new content.
The people who enjoy a challenge and desire a game that is difficult won't play because "MMOs are boring" (that's my son's quote).
No matter where you put the difficulty level, you're going to have people at either end of the bell curve dislike what you're doing.
There are some people who will continue to complain no matter how easy you make it - if you talk to them in depth you come to realize that what they really want is max-level characters with full epic gear *right now* - not understanding that they day they get it is the day they're likely to move on.VR14 Templar, VR14 DK, VR8 DK, VR7 NB, VR1 Sorcerer;
All 3 Alliances;
2 Pre-order Imperial Accounts, yes that means 16 characters on NA alone2 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭
Absolutely agree and I expect the game to change quite a bit still (no surprise there). I do however feel sorry for them. When I look at the game and consider its size and complexity (uneducated opinion here - developers will know better), it's easy to see how making even a small change may not be easy as well as have plenty of knock-on effects. Dunno.
It seems a pretty small and pretty basic game to me, but no less entertaining from 1-50 for that. But compared to the world size and range of gameplay options of something like ArcheAge it's not that big or complex.
Part of why I am relatively disappointed is that I was expecting a much bigger, much more empty land to explore and I was expecting more varied game-play. In the end I was expecting it to bring a lot of new things to the table. About the only vaguely new thing it tries to bring is phsing and that's been a calamity. Besides LOTRO did that years ago, but in a way that enhanced the game.
I expected much more ambition but ESO just wants to be a very good Old School MMO, which is fair enough.
I can't help but feel that one day something is going to come along that will redefine genre expectations and all those games whose aspirations are limited to being some variant of WoW will find themselves obsolete overnight.
1 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »[quoldn't te="Loco_Mofo;1073280"]ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »To get VR xp they should improve Cyrodiil, more xp for kill players, more xp for capture keeps, more and more interesting quests, etc.
If they're nerfing Vet zone to kindergarten difficulty like 1-50 then, yes, they absolutely must make levelling VR via PvP viable. Very viable.
I still don't understand why they have to do this. If people are that bad they can't solo the Vet content then they're not going to be able to PvP or other endgame content (unless they nerf dungeons). They won't last 2 seconds. They could just roll an alt and level 1-50 in the other factions to experience the content Why do these people want to reach VR12? What is the point for them? Genuine question.
Maybe, the people just want to feel they are playing an Elder Scrolls game and not your new grinding eve online tamrielic version. This is Elder Scrolls, the difficulty is not the most important. Immersion, exploration and good quests are the most important. This is not Dark Souls or another game that has nothing more to offer than to die 1000 times with the same dungeon rat.
Its EASY to understand. People LOVED the game 1-50, then the VAST MAJORITY of people hate the game post 50 and left. So, you do the math.
People liked 1-50 because the story still made sense, character progression was at a good pace and it felt rewarding.
Unfortunately that all goes haywire once you hit VR.
But at least, VR will be more interesting now.
Less difficult equals more interesting?
Try going about daily life with your shoelaces tied together. It wouldn't make like more interesting, it would become tedious very quickly. [/quote]
Valid point. But doesn't really prove the point you are trying to make. Using your example freeing my shoe laces from their forced bondage, makes walking easier, but if my day is exactly the same in every other way, it is no more interesting.
I was simply trying to point out, that this change does a lot of things for a lot of different people. But making anything more interesting is not one of them, since it is still exactly the same content.1 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭This is very disappointing.
People can't seem to get the point that they wanted to encourage grouping in Veteran content. Veteran zones are *easy* if you have even 2 people; 3-4 is once again faceroll on everything.
Nerfing the "difficulty" is not the way to fix what is wrong with veteran zones. Making the leveling faster by giving out more xp, yes. Make the gear more "fun" and rewarding, yes.
It will be MORE of a grind with no challenge than doing it as it is now. Kill after tedious kill with not even having to think, dragging on into eternity.
It is not currently a grind. It's a challenge. There is a difference. The boss mobs on levels 1-50 have already been nerfed down to minimum difficulty.
Leaving the difficulty up would, over time, have engendered Respect for this game in the gaming world. Making it into a no challenge MMO like SW:TOR / LoTRO / WoW isn't going to impress anyone.
The complaining soloers will now run through your content, and finding nothing else to do and *still* not wanting to group, will leave while continuing to scream about lack of new content.
The people who enjoy a challenge and desire a game that is difficult won't play because "MMOs are boring" (that's my son's quote).
No matter where you put the difficulty level, you're going to have people at either end of the bell curve dislike what you're doing.
There are some people who will continue to complain no matter how easy you make it - if you talk to them in depth you come to realize that what they really want is max-level characters with full epic gear *right now* - not understanding that they day they get it is the day they're likely to move on.
I'm not that pessimistic. They have said the content will still be harder than 1 to 50 content. It's going to be more of a gentle ramp in difficulty I think. My only fear is that when this hits there will still be people on here saying its not enough. They still can't do the content. What then? This is the slippery path that WOW went down. It ended up with difficulty scaled to the least able players.1