Class action lawsuit

onlinegamer1 · June 2014

Armianlee wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Again, false here in the state of Connecticut, your state/country's consumer protection laws may vary.

So in Connecticut if you buy a game and don't enjoy it you're entitled to a refund? If you pay to see a movie and you don't like it you're entitled to a refund? If you buy a book and don't enjoy it you're entitled to a refund?

Nope, none of that.

In the state of Connecticut, if you pay for a service, and the service is not delivered, you are entitled to a refund. If partial service is delivered, you are entitled to a partial refund.

The law also states that I get to file what I consider "the service" and the company has to send a lawyer (at $200/hr) to defend their position in court.

Or, you know, they can credit my account $7.50.... up to them.

You're getting the service as it is laid out to you in the ToS. TERMS OF SERVICE. You have nothing.

One problem - the ToS is not legally binding.

nerevarine1138 · June 2014

Slash8915 wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

Wrong I used to Own and Admin a private server Blizzard tried to sue us 5 times, they lost every single suit.

In addition I was a Coadmin of another Server which sued Blizzard for stealing their custom UI addons in Wrath. Guess what? Blizzard Lost, but an agreement was reached between the servers owners and blizzard that blizzard would keep the addons (since they were already released with he expansion, and the server would get (Money) in return, Basically blizzard lost the suit and was ordered to buy the code from the Private server developers.

Do you have any proof of this? I would be very interested in reading the case notes.

Of course he doesn't have proof. But he's going to claim that the records were sealed.

Bear in mind that if that were the case, he'd be breaking the confidentiality agreements he signed by posting here, and he'd be in debt for all kinds of money. But that's why people who aren't actually aware of how the courts work shouldn't make up stories about court.

Slash8915 · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

Actually Blizzard entertainment loses Class Action Lawsuits all the time, IN fact many of the ones they attempt to do on Private servers end up back firing on them, with the judge ruling they are to pay the defendant. They just have so much money they don't care.

There are several reasons why ESO could and thats really the key word there, suffer a Class action lawsuit, one is False advertisement of the Product, this applies when the advertised product does not provide the promised service. Which ZOS has in droves currently.

You can also apply this to things such as the Daedric Armor, which is visually advertised in all of their Cinematic trailers, and while this normally would not be an issue that specific armor set is a huge part of the lore for TES games therefore the appearance of that set in the cinematic, is an obvious advertisement of the armor set.

Yet in game it appears as the "Shredder Costume". (and it actually is 95% an exact copy of the Teenage Mutant ninja turtles Shredder outfit) Which can be viewed as copyright trademark infringement.

Just to name a few.

There are about 30 reasons I can name off the top of my head for why a legitimate class action suit against ZOS could be made, most would not be won of course, but a few would.

I have no idea why you would feel the need to lie about class action suits with Blizzard, but just to educate any poor saps who might believe you:

Blizzard sued a bot-developer and won. They won $7,000,000. That's the only suit regarding WoW that Blizzard has ever been involved in.

Wrong I used to Own and Admin a private server Blizzard tried to sue us 5 times, they lost every single suit.

In addition I was a Coadmin of another Server which sued Blizzard for stealing their custom UI addons in Wrath. Guess what? Blizzard Lost, but an agreement was reached between the servers owners and blizzard that blizzard would keep the addons (since they were already released with he expansion, and the server would get (Money) in return, Basically blizzard lost the suit and was ordered to buy the code from the Private server developers.

So yea. One of the things you may not realize is that blizzard does not develop their own game improvements or bug fixes for the most part, they steal them, and then settle out of court for ownership of them, or flat out buy them from private server developers, or flat out steal them and then attempt to sue the private servers they stole them from, for using them.

They also attempted to sue a guy selling a WoW leveling guide on Ebay. They lost it had to pay him, and he set up his own website with which to sell his guides from with the suit money.

Activission/Blizzard is a very very nasty cut throat company.

And the newspapers just missed out on this story about a gaming behemoth repeatedly losing a lawsuit?

You've just told us all that you ran a private server. That makes you a cheater, hacker, liar, etc. But by all means, we should totally believe you about these non-existent lawsuits where you got all kinds of money from Blizzard. That totally happened.

Watch out... I think this may be the same guy I ran into on CoD a few years back that is an ex-Marine with over 500 confirmed kills...

ozgod22_eso · June 2014

Good luck with this class action lawsuit. This game is far from perfect but we always have the option to stop paying. The courts have more important things to do than worry about some gamer that is unhappy he had to wait 2 extra hours for maintenance or that his templar keeps getting wtfpwned in pvp. If there were no class action lawsuits for the disastrous launch of Age of Conan or Warhammer Online's last 4 years before shutdown there won't be for this game.

The people that start these posts are probably the same type of people who appear in Judge Judy or Judge Alex.

Armianlee · June 2014

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Armianlee wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Again, false here in the state of Connecticut, your state/country's consumer protection laws may vary.

So in Connecticut if you buy a game and don't enjoy it you're entitled to a refund? If you pay to see a movie and you don't like it you're entitled to a refund? If you buy a book and don't enjoy it you're entitled to a refund?

Nope, none of that.

In the state of Connecticut, if you pay for a service, and the service is not delivered, you are entitled to a refund. If partial service is delivered, you are entitled to a partial refund.

The law also states that I get to file what I consider "the service" and the company has to send a lawyer (at $200/hr) to defend their position in court.

Or, you know, they can credit my account $7.50.... up to them.

You're getting the service as it is laid out to you in the ToS. TERMS OF SERVICE. You have nothing.

One problem - the ToS is not legally binding.

You are claiming that you can file on basis of service. The service that is agreed to is the one they lay out to you. How are you... You know what. Never mind.. keep thinking that.

Emperor · June 2014

youmadbro?

UrQuan · June 2014

LrdRahvinb14a_ESO wrote: »

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

Marcaeus wrote: »

Lots of forum posts. Perhaps players can't play the game, so they're on here white knighting it. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't see how they can charge you money to watch a slow motion slideshow where you spend more time restarting your launcher than actually being able to do anything functional in a game.

I've never had to restart my launcher, in fact, earlier today I was able to log on during lunch and knock out a few quests, kill a world boss, AND found the AE Motif! Not exactly what I would call "unplayable". Seems to me that the people with serious technical difficulties need to figure out what is wrong with their pc and how to fix it. If CS isn't helping you much, well many companies have terrible CS which is why when it's good it's a selling point.

If you want to make the news though, please bring this to an attorney. It will look good on a montage of other great lawsuits like the "McDonald's made my kid fat", and "Hot shower water burned my genitalia" cases.

or my personal fave- McDonalds burned my genitalia"

You know, that one always gets bandied about as an example of a frivolous lawsuit, but if you look into the actual details of it, there was extreme negligence on the part of McDonalds. The woman suffered 3rd degree burns (aka full thickness burns because it extends through the entire thickness of the skin) and was hospitalized for more than a week, because the coffee was held (by policy) at 180-190 degrees (coffee is usually served at 140 degrees). Liquid that hot will cause a 3rd degree burn in as little as 2 seconds.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

lol, I've been whining more lately then normal but omg. I was laughing so hard I almost couldn't send this to my sister (who is an attorney) so she could get a good laugh too. She did.

aipex8_ESO · June 2014

Malpherian wrote: »

You can also apply this to things such as the Daedric Armor, which is visually advertised in many of their Cinematic trailers, and while this normally would not be an issue that specific armor set is a huge part of the lore for TES games therefore the appearance of that set in the cinematic "Combined" with the ability to craft the set in game AND it's similarity to previous TES games looks, is an obvious advertisement of the armor set.

Yet in game it appears as the "Shredder Costume". (and it actually is 95% an exact copy of the Teenage Mutant ninja turtles Shredder outfit) Which can be viewed as copyright trademark infringement.

You honestly think you could sue ZOS because the in-game Daedric armor doesn't match the cinematic trailer? I don't even...

MonkeyAssassin24 · June 2014

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Again, false here in the state of Connecticut, your state/country's consumer protection laws may vary.

So in Connecticut if you buy a game and don't enjoy it you're entitled to a refund? If you pay to see a movie and you don't like it you're entitled to a refund? If you buy a book and don't enjoy it you're entitled to a refund?

Nope, none of that.

In the state of Connecticut, if you pay for a service, and the service is not delivered, you are entitled to a refund. If partial service is delivered, you are entitled to a partial refund.

The law also states that I get to file what I consider "the service" and the company has to send a lawyer (at $200/hr) to defend their position in court.

Or, you know, they can credit my account $7.50.... up to them.

Your Honor I consider "the service" I paid for to be 24 hours a day/7 days a week uptime with flawless connections, 40+ consistent fps, and the ability to wield two two-handed axes while being unarmored ("play the way you want Zeni!!!"). Also I was to understand there would be punch and pie.

Cudda · June 2014

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Again, false here in the state of Connecticut, your state/country's consumer protection laws may vary.

So in Connecticut if you buy a game and don't enjoy it you're entitled to a refund? If you pay to see a movie and you don't like it you're entitled to a refund? If you buy a book and don't enjoy it you're entitled to a refund?

Nope, none of that.

In the state of Connecticut, if you pay for a service, and the service is not delivered, you are entitled to a refund. If partial service is delivered, you are entitled to a partial refund.

The law also states that I get to file what I consider "the service" and the company has to send a lawyer (at $200/hr) to defend their position in court.

Or, you know, they can credit my account $7.50.... up to them.

If they was smart, they would let you pay court costs and all that, then give you your 7.50. They dont have to pay a lawyer $200/hr.

Malpherian · June 2014

Slash8915 wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

Wrong I used to Own and Admin a private server Blizzard tried to sue us 5 times, they lost every single suit.

In addition I was a Coadmin of another Server which sued Blizzard for stealing their custom UI addons in Wrath. Guess what? Blizzard Lost, but an agreement was reached between the servers owners and blizzard that blizzard would keep the addons (since they were already released with he expansion, and the server would get (Money) in return, Basically blizzard lost the suit and was ordered to buy the code from the Private server developers.

Do you have any proof of this? I would be very interested in seeing the case notes.

This was about 7 years ago, no I do not have the documents any longer. But just talk to some of the private server owners for the current major "Private" wow servers.

You can however look up info on my old server I beleive (if the adds are still around) it was called "Enclave WoW Servers" and We maintained 3 servers, a Fun server, an RP server, and a Stock server (Stock servers are servers where the game is exactly the same as it would be if you were playing blizzards). Fun servers are faster leveling, with Deve events daily and weekly special voting tokens for prizes, special teleport pets and other cool things.

RP servers are RP servers, where Guilds can have their own private maps set up for their guilds (Guild housing originally originated from Private servers). Arena Net admits to taking this "Idea" from another games private servers for use in their famous "Guildwars" Game.

We did every single bit of Scripting and Lua ourselves. As well as bug fixes etc, and Instance creation/development.

But yea, if you had played on WoW private servers, and also played wow before BC, you would know without a doubt exactly what blizzard does, because you'd see the addons on your private server, and the all of a sudden Bliz's new title has a bunch of them fully implemented into it's own game. And I'm not talking "Similar" I'm talking exact same UI layout and everything, same font, same options, same looks. Just integrated into the main game rather then an addon.

DenverRalphy · June 2014

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Again, false here in the state of Connecticut, your state/country's consumer protection laws may vary.

So in Connecticut if you buy a game and don't enjoy it you're entitled to a refund? If you pay to see a movie and you don't like it you're entitled to a refund? If you buy a book and don't enjoy it you're entitled to a refund?

The law also states that I get to file what I consider "the service" and the company has to send a lawyer (at $200/hr) to defend their position in court.

What a load of bull-hockey. Kindly cite that law. YOU don't get to determine what you consider "the service" to be. The contract/TOS you agreed to has sole power to define that. Nor do any laws dictate the requirement for an attorney present in civil suits, nor how much they will cost.

UrQuan · June 2014

Malpherian wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

Actually Blizzard entertainment loses Class Action Lawsuits all the time, IN fact many of the ones they attempt to do on Private servers end up back firing on them, with the judge ruling they are to pay the defendant. They just have so much money they don't care.

There are several reasons why ESO could and thats really the key word there, suffer a Class action lawsuit, one is False advertisement of the Product, this applies when the advertised product does not provide the promised service. Which ZOS has in droves currently.

You can also apply this to things such as the Daedric Armor, which is visually advertised in all of their Cinematic trailers, and while this normally would not be an issue that specific armor set is a huge part of the lore for TES games therefore the appearance of that set in the cinematic, is an obvious advertisement of the armor set.

Yet in game it appears as the "Shredder Costume". (and it actually is 95% an exact copy of the Teenage Mutant ninja turtles Shredder outfit) Which can be viewed as copyright trademark infringement.

Just to name a few.

There are about 30 reasons I can name off the top of my head for why a legitimate class action suit against ZOS could be made, most would not be won of course, but a few would.

I have no idea why you would feel the need to lie about class action suits with Blizzard, but just to educate any poor saps who might believe you:

Blizzard sued a bot-developer and won. They won $7,000,000. That's the only suit regarding WoW that Blizzard has ever been involved in.

Wrong I used to Own and Admin a private server Blizzard tried to sue us 5 times, they lost every single suit.

In addition I was a Coadmin of another Server which sued Blizzard for stealing their custom UI addons in Wrath. Guess what? Blizzard Lost, but an agreement was reached between the servers owners and blizzard that blizzard would keep the addons (since they were already released with he expansion, and the server would get (Money) in return, Basically blizzard lost the suit and was ordered to buy the code from the Private server developers.

So yea. One of the things you may not realize is that blizzard does not develop their own game improvements or bug fixes for the most part, they steal them, and then settle out of court for ownership of them, or flat out buy them from private server developers, or flat out steal them and then attempt to sue the private servers they stole them from, for using them.

They also attempted to sue a guy selling a WoW leveling guide on Ebay. They lost it had to pay him, and he set up his own website with which to sell his guides from with the suit money.

Activission/Blizzard is a very very nasty cut throat company.

Assuming that all of that is true (which would be a big assumption), then none of those would be class action lawsuits. So where are these class action lawsuits that you claim Blizzard loses all the time? And yes, you did specify class action.

Slash8915 · June 2014

I Googled "Enclave WoW Servers lawsuit", and the first few links are saying that Blizzard WON an $88m suit against a private server.

LrdRahvin · June 2014

Ur-Quan wrote: »

LrdRahvinb14a_ESO wrote: »

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

Marcaeus wrote: »

Lots of forum posts. Perhaps players can't play the game, so they're on here white knighting it. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't see how they can charge you money to watch a slow motion slideshow where you spend more time restarting your launcher than actually being able to do anything functional in a game.

I've never had to restart my launcher, in fact, earlier today I was able to log on during lunch and knock out a few quests, kill a world boss, AND found the AE Motif! Not exactly what I would call "unplayable". Seems to me that the people with serious technical difficulties need to figure out what is wrong with their pc and how to fix it. If CS isn't helping you much, well many companies have terrible CS which is why when it's good it's a selling point.

If you want to make the news though, please bring this to an attorney. It will look good on a montage of other great lawsuits like the "McDonald's made my kid fat", and "Hot shower water burned my genitalia" cases.

or my personal fave- McDonalds burned my genitalia"

You know, that one always gets bandied about as an example of a frivolous lawsuit, but if you look into the actual details of it, there was extreme negligence on the part of McDonalds. The woman suffered 3rd degree burns (aka full thickness burns because it extends through the entire thickness of the skin) and was hospitalized for more than a week, because the coffee was held (by policy) at 180-190 degrees (coffee is usually served at 140 degrees). Liquid that hot will cause a 3rd degree burn in as little as 2 seconds.

I think you missed the fact that the above was a combination of the two I quoted...the fact that it actually brings to mind a real case is/was a bonus.

LrdRahvin · June 2014

And now for something completely different....

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Loco_Mofo · June 2014

Always makes me laugh when someone threatens to file a law suit over the value of a game.

Good luck champ, go all the way to the top if you have to!

nerevarine1138 · June 2014

Slash8915 wrote: »

I Googled "Enclave WoW Servers lawsuit", and the first few links are saying that Blizzard WON an $88m suit against a private server.

This gets better and better with every post.

Cudda · June 2014

Slash8915 wrote: »

I Googled "Enclave WoW Servers lawsuit", and the first few links are saying that Blizzard WON an $88m suit against a private server.

Yup, unfortunately he forgot Google existed i think.

UrQuan · June 2014

LrdRahvinb14a_ESO wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

LrdRahvinb14a_ESO wrote: »

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

Marcaeus wrote: »

Lots of forum posts. Perhaps players can't play the game, so they're on here white knighting it. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't see how they can charge you money to watch a slow motion slideshow where you spend more time restarting your launcher than actually being able to do anything functional in a game.

I've never had to restart my launcher, in fact, earlier today I was able to log on during lunch and knock out a few quests, kill a world boss, AND found the AE Motif! Not exactly what I would call "unplayable". Seems to me that the people with serious technical difficulties need to figure out what is wrong with their pc and how to fix it. If CS isn't helping you much, well many companies have terrible CS which is why when it's good it's a selling point.

If you want to make the news though, please bring this to an attorney. It will look good on a montage of other great lawsuits like the "McDonald's made my kid fat", and "Hot shower water burned my genitalia" cases.

or my personal fave- McDonalds burned my genitalia"

You know, that one always gets bandied about as an example of a frivolous lawsuit, but if you look into the actual details of it, there was extreme negligence on the part of McDonalds. The woman suffered 3rd degree burns (aka full thickness burns because it extends through the entire thickness of the skin) and was hospitalized for more than a week, because the coffee was held (by policy) at 180-190 degrees (coffee is usually served at 140 degrees). Liquid that hot will cause a 3rd degree burn in as little as 2 seconds.

I think you missed the fact that the above was a combination of the two I quoted...the fact that it actually brings to mind a real case is/was a bonus.

Oh, ha ha, I see! The case that I was talking about was actually a woman whose genitalia (and legs) was badly burned by McDonalds, so I figured that's what you were talking about...

LrdRahvin · June 2014

Ur-Quan wrote: »

LrdRahvinb14a_ESO wrote: »

Ur-Quan wrote: »

LrdRahvinb14a_ESO wrote: »

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

Marcaeus wrote: »

Lots of forum posts. Perhaps players can't play the game, so they're on here white knighting it. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't see how they can charge you money to watch a slow motion slideshow where you spend more time restarting your launcher than actually being able to do anything functional in a game.

I've never had to restart my launcher, in fact, earlier today I was able to log on during lunch and knock out a few quests, kill a world boss, AND found the AE Motif! Not exactly what I would call "unplayable". Seems to me that the people with serious technical difficulties need to figure out what is wrong with their pc and how to fix it. If CS isn't helping you much, well many companies have terrible CS which is why when it's good it's a selling point.

If you want to make the news though, please bring this to an attorney. It will look good on a montage of other great lawsuits like the "McDonald's made my kid fat", and "Hot shower water burned my genitalia" cases.

or my personal fave- McDonalds burned my genitalia"

You know, that one always gets bandied about as an example of a frivolous lawsuit, but if you look into the actual details of it, there was extreme negligence on the part of McDonalds. The woman suffered 3rd degree burns (aka full thickness burns because it extends through the entire thickness of the skin) and was hospitalized for more than a week, because the coffee was held (by policy) at 180-190 degrees (coffee is usually served at 140 degrees). Liquid that hot will cause a 3rd degree burn in as little as 2 seconds.

I think you missed the fact that the above was a combination of the two I quoted...the fact that it actually brings to mind a real case is/was a bonus.

Oh, ha ha, I see! The case that I was talking about was actually a woman whose genitalia (and legs) was badly burned by McDonalds, so I figured that's what you were talking about...

I was...but only secondarily...double entendre and all that...does no one learn anything in school these days?!?!

/shakefist
GET OFFF MY LAWN!

UrQuan · June 2014

LrdRahvinb14a_ESO wrote: »

And now for something completely different....

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Oh no, now you've done it...

Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!

MonkeyAssassin24 · June 2014

Slash8915 wrote: »

I Googled "Enclave WoW Servers lawsuit", and the first few links are saying that Blizzard WON an $88m suit against a private server.

Hahaha wow. Did the person who actually posted about being the admin of that server "forget" this? My opinion, they remembered something about a lawsuit involving that server and assumed "oh yeah Blizz lost that right?" Maybe they won an appeal that was gag ordered from being released from the press, ah dang, I just supplied an excuse...

Armianlee · June 2014

I've run out of popcorn! These two guys are providing so much entertainment I am barely playing the game right now.

Malpherian · June 2014

Slash8915 wrote: »

I Googled "Enclave WoW Servers lawsuit", and the first few links are saying that Blizzard WON an $88m suit against a private server.

Oh Blizzard wins some, I never said they didn't. They just lose a lot too. And their attorney has the power to censor what suits get out on the web also, which is why generally the only ones you find are ones they win.

No company period ever wins 100% of the lawsuits against them, especially one as old as blizzard.

On the class action suit, the only difference in a class action and a personal suit is a class action involves a TON of people. There are way less of those that happen. But my point was that the OP could Sue ZOS if he wanted for any number of reasons, especially if he lives in the US.

In the US I can sue you for looking at me wrong and win. Trust me, he can sue them if he wants and may actually win depending on what it's for and who the judge is and how the judge feels about "Internet fantasy games".

As far as the suit against my server went, no neither got money the judge threw it out of court every time. Blizz was trying to sue us for DCI (Digital Copyright Infringement). Which they could not prove we did because we only used the part of their software that we payed for and that states in the Eula we had the right to use. In addition private servers are free, so there was no profit made in legal terms despite income from "donations".

To have a DCI be valid you have to make money off of their software, or claim their software as your own. Whcih no private server does unless they are stupid.

nerevarine1138 · June 2014

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

Slash8915 wrote: »

I Googled "Enclave WoW Servers lawsuit", and the first few links are saying that Blizzard WON an $88m suit against a private server.

Hahaha wow. Did the person who actually posted about being the admin of that server "forget" this? My opinion, they remembered something about a lawsuit involving that server and assumed "oh yeah Blizz lost that right?" Maybe they won an appeal that was gag ordered from being released from the press, ah dang, I just supplied an excuse...

Don't worry. If there were a secret ruling and a gag order in place, the poster in question would have just violated said gag order. And now they'd be on the hook for a few million.

UrQuan · June 2014

Malpherian wrote: »

On the class action suit, the only difference in a class action and a personal suit is a class action involves a TON of people. There are way less of those that happen. But my point was that the OP could Sue ZOS if he wanted for any number of reasons, especially if he lives in the US.

No, you specifically said that they lose class action lawsuits all the time. You're going to need to back that up with proof that they've lost multiple class action lawsuits, or admit that you were just talking out of your ass.

Armianlee · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

MonkeyAssassin24 wrote: »

Slash8915 wrote: »

I Googled "Enclave WoW Servers lawsuit", and the first few links are saying that Blizzard WON an $88m suit against a private server.

Hahaha wow. Did the person who actually posted about being the admin of that server "forget" this? My opinion, they remembered something about a lawsuit involving that server and assumed "oh yeah Blizz lost that right?" Maybe they won an appeal that was gag ordered from being released from the press, ah dang, I just supplied an excuse...

Don't worry. If there were a secret ruling and a gag order in place, the poster in question would have just violated said gag order. And now they'd be on the hook for a few million.

Should probably send a link to this thread to Blizzard Legal... you know, maybe they will come all the way over here and give us their take on it.

SystemiK · June 2014

Malpherian wrote: »

In the US I can sue you for looking at me wrong and win.

/thread