The problem with modern MMOs...

Cogo · June 2014

AinGeal wrote: »

Then there is the success of games and taking a comparative picture between success and what the game offers.

This all adds together to prove one thing. That if games are moving toward a certain way (soloable, story driven content instead of demanding a group just for trash mobs), it means that is what the MAJORITY of gamers want.

Sorry for cutting your post, but I wanted to leave the personal stuff out.

Yes, you can use history and current fact about the biggest numbers in games to call it what the majority wants. Hard to argue with that.

WoW is still the biggest pay-per-month, active accounts in the WORLD. But WoW has evolved and chosen one way and gained a new player base that never where interested in either games or MMOs. The player who expect to log in, do everything fast, easy, go anywhere, be able to instantly see all raids or whatever. They even go so far, that this majority player group rather buy a highlevel char, then play one.

The "success" of an MMO is a wide question, because what success is, is different among players and even among companies. Of course ALL companies would LOVE 50 million players. But they do not have those goals. One goal can very much be 500 000 concurrent active accounts, but from a different player base. In ESO I would say they aim for the long term player.

In MMOs, it keeps developing now. From pretty much standing still for a few years, because of wow. Now companies are coming with new TYPES.
Sure, they wount beat WoW today. But, you played Eve, so you know how well they doing, how different Eve is to ANY MMO I would say. Their player base is around 500-1m? Good enough for them. Success in even I would call it.

And just look how many MMOs we got now and even upcoming. ALL with their own different direction. New as old MMO players will have more chooses of MMOs. The success of each game, depends on how long they run, with the company reaching their goals. I call each of these MMOs a success.

Success of an MMO, do differ, but its more about how long it lasts, how many players playing and if that is enough for the companies goal. That's a success.

I like to call any MMO who comes up with a brand new TYPE/way a success, either it makes it or not.

SWTOR would been such a HUGE success if the DAMN company just didn't, make a GREAT game (It was), with the best starting area I ever seen in any MMO. ESO can compete but not in the same way.

They made the game and went on a vacation.....

kaosodin · June 2014

I agree on many points.

Not going to reinvent the wheel.....tryijg to be super creative and origonal has come up with weird game mechanics.

To me 5 guilds is weird. Just give us a auction house. Many more examples. But I agree

Fleymark · June 2014

AinGeal wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

There is exactly nothing hypocritical about anything I've posted in this thread.

And I never said I wasn't in the minority. I know am. Pretty much my entire point, in fact. Appealing to the masses is what has ruined this genre of games. Actually it has ruined a lot about gaming in general.

McDonald's sells a lot of hamburgers. Doesn't mean it's any good.

Calling the person you quoted out by saying "your characterization of group centric games is grossly exaggerated and oversimplified" and yet you did the same thing with regard to solo centric games. Yeah, I'd certainly call that hypocritical. If that wasn't enough, how about your statement "spare me the sanctimonious BS" which is immediately followed by "just because you either don't like or can't hack it in games with real social interaction or challenge".

Appealing to a minority would be considered ruining the genre. As it results in the majority not like/wanting what's available. Appealing to the majority is not ruining anything. It's proper. You can't please everyone so you do your best to please as many as possible. That's not ruining anything.

You might have a point....if anything I said was exaggerated or untrue.

And if you actually read my posts, I said I think it's fine that these games exist. I sometimes play them. I'm here, aren't I? My problem is that these people infest EVERY game and insist that EVERY game cater to their need for easy solo content, handholdy PvP, etc.

And as you can tell, I'm not happy about it. And while I may not be in the majority, I'm certainly not alone.

Cogo · June 2014

Fleymark wrote: »

And if you actually read my posts, I said I think it's fine that these games exist. I sometimes play them. I'm here, aren't I? My problem is that these people infest EVERY game and insist that EVERY game cater to their need for easy solo content, handholdy PvP, etc.

And as you can tell, I'm not happy about it. And while I may not be in the majority, I'm certainly not alone.

I both agree and seen this in sadly several games. And these people, EVEN if they got everything they scream for....they play, then stop after 1 month. Not really any importance to any MMO.

Hadria · June 2014

The problem is people just can't play a game and enjoy it for what it is they must always try to turn it into that last game they played that had "awesome ***" in it.

Cogo · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Sad, but that is my biggest beef with this game. The grouping mechanics are perfectly fine (if a little buggy) for world content and whatnot.

But questing is absolutely horrid to do between friends and guildies. I know they say they are working on it, but I think it's the second biggest failing of the game as a whole.

The first being the lack of housing, in an Elder Scrolls game.

Housing would be nice, I agree. But Zenimax did say they had no plans for it at start. They have plans now. But HOW to make it, is a big HOW.

BUT, housing is now on Zenimax features in game map. Not if, WHEN. Sure...its more then likely a year or 2 maybe away.

The phasing with questing mechanics have already been improved. Not 100% but its is possible now to see each other in quests. Not all! And Some are bugged, but a vast improvement since launch. Also, this is one of their top priorities.

I do think some Quests, like the main quest line should have PARTS solo only, for the player experience and connection to the story as a whole. It adds another part to the game, just like Cyrodiil adds one part that might not be liked by all.

Diaboli · June 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

We

We

We

We

We

All the way home!

Anyway, all due respect, you don't speak for me, or a lot of the community. The stuff you're mentioning is part and parcel of the MMO scene. There are people that play these games exclusively for the feeling of finding or creating "The next big thing".

I don't think it's fair for anyone to demand that the entire MMO community change to suit your own tastes. You either like it or you don't, no one forced you to play.

I think that the theme and lore of the game are awesome. I think that real thought was put into it and if you don't speed through dialogue there are onion layers of story progression to enjoy.

Sakiri · June 2014

Fleymark wrote: »

AinGeal wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

I'm not going to address all of this blather, save to say this...

Your characterization of group centric games is a grossly exaggerated and oversimplified, as is typical of the WoW apologists who expect every game since to cater to their need for boring soloable pablum. Those games were great with friends, they were great for making new friends and they were great going it alone and meeting people in pickup groups. Some are better than others, of course but that's what makes interacting in a populated world interesting, exciting and fun. The ONLY players who have ever had problems with this are those who either really ought to be playing single player games because it's better suited to their playtime/style or they have the social skills of drywall spackle or both. Yet, for some reason you people seem bent on making sure that those who do enjoy real MMOs can't have them as an option.

I don't have a problem with there being games available for people who want the kind of multiplayer-ish EZ-mode tripe you like. Choices are great and not every game needs to be for every player. I do have a problem with people like you infesting every game and expecting every game to be like that. You and those like you have destroyed a genre that was once the sum total, indeed the jewel, of decades of gaming before it.

The reason people lost their jobs, families, neglected their lives, etc playing the older titles wasn't because there was something wrong with the games, but because there was something wrong with those people and they didn't know when to say when. Because the games were THAT good. It was sad to hear these stories and nothing to celebrate, but the reason people don't lose themselves in MMOs anymore is they aren't worth losing oneself in anymore. Because they are all the dull, repetitive. completely uninspiring CRAP that you like, now. It would be like ruining ones life over a trip to McDonald's.

Spare me the sanctimonious BS. Just because you either don't like or can't hack it in games with real social interaction or challenge doesn't mean that every single game should be required to cater to your need for EZ-mode solo play.

I say again...LOL See?

Putting aside the hypocrisy of your post, consider that developers can gather more intel about their game then just reading forum posts. They have the means and the capability to see what goes on inside their game. Things like population density which can tell them how many prefer pvp or pve, how many prefer grouping or soloing, etc., etc.

They talk with people, not just on fan forums but in person, face to face, on voice programs, in interviews, etc. etc.

Then there is the success of games and taking a comparative picture between success and what the game offers.

This all adds together to prove one thing. That if games are moving toward a certain way (soloable, story driven content instead of demanding a group just for trash mobs), it means that is what the MAJORITY of gamers want. So perhaps you should take a step back and consider that YOU ARE THE MINORITY HERE.

So spare US the "sanctimonious BS". Oh and before you go putting your foot into your mouth, I've played EVE for years and that is one of the most hard-core, unforgiving games out there. I'd be playing it now if I wasn't boycotting CCP for cancelling WoD Online.

There is exactly nothing hypocritical about anything I've posted in this thread.

And I never said I wasn't in the minority. I know am. Pretty much my entire point, in fact. Appealing to the masses is what has ruined this genre of games. Actually it has ruined a lot about gaming in general.

McDonald's sells a lot of hamburgers. Doesn't mean it's any good.

Except that its apparently good to a rather large number of people or they wouldnt be selling anything.

Sakiri · June 2014

@cogo the definition of success in the game industry means "we paid off development costs and were now making a profit".

That doesnt typically happen in the first few months.

SWTOR went f2p for example, because it wasnt bringing enough revenue in to make up for salaries and development. Free to play relies on grabbing a guy thatll blow a load of cash thatll play a while and then come back later. High turnover of those types. Brings in more money than low pop sub games.

So basically if youre a nickel in the black its technically a success.

Cogo · June 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

@cogo the definition of success in the game industry means "we paid off development costs and were now making a profit".

That doesnt typically happen in the first few months.

SWTOR went f2p for example, because it wasnt bringing enough revenue in to make up for salaries and development. Free to play relies on grabbing a guy thatll blow a load of cash thatll play a while and then come back later. High turnover of those types. Brings in more money than low pop sub games.

So basically if youre a nickel in the black its technically a success.

You might be right! I do realize I am not part of any big group Type of player. I only play a MMO that I like the core of, and I see myself playing in 6 months.

Bugs/lags/problems/imbalance. All those things can get fixed if the game is run by a good company. Which in my view it is, so that is why I simply dont care about "bugs". Bugs gets fixed by the right company running the game.
I am a long term MMO player. I don't play any MMO for less then a month.

Success of a game, and why ESO has good business model for a long term game, is very well explained by this guy.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1vsez2/why_im_happy_eso_is_not_f2p_by_someone_who_works/

AinGeal · June 2014

Hadria wrote: »

The problem is people just can't play a game and enjoy it for what it is they must always try to turn it into that last game they played that had "awesome ***" in it.

Of course. They left a game because, despite liking feature A, they hated feature B and C. They couldn't justify sticking around just for feature A so they move on.

The next game has feature X that they like but feature Y that they don't. If only they can get the devs to turn feature Y into feature A they would have their 'perfect' game.

Of course different people have different tastes and the devs have their own vision for the game. They'll take player info input into consideration but if you think just one person shouting that some ability needs to be nerfed is going to be enough to get them to do it, you're kidding yourself.

Sakiri · June 2014

Cogo wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

@cogo the definition of success in the game industry means "we paid off development costs and were now making a profit".

That doesnt typically happen in the first few months.

SWTOR went f2p for example, because it wasnt bringing enough revenue in to make up for salaries and development. Free to play relies on grabbing a guy thatll blow a load of cash thatll play a while and then come back later. High turnover of those types. Brings in more money than low pop sub games.

So basically if youre a nickel in the black its technically a success.

You might be right! I do realize I am not part of any big group Type of player. I only play a MMO that I like the core of, and I see myself playing in 6 months.

Bugs/lags/problems/imbalance. All those things can get fixed if the game is run by a good company. Which in my view it is, so that is why I simply dont care about "bugs". Bugs gets fixed by the right company running the game.
I am a long term MMO player. I don't play any MMO for less then a month.

Success of a game, and why ESO has good business model for a long term game, is very well explained by this guy.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1vsez2/why_im_happy_eso_is_not_f2p_by_someone_who_works/

Cant view that link in my phone because reddit doesnt load right.

I only know for SWTOR because one of my acquaintances from another game(guildmate actually) worked on it and saw this going into live. He knew itd go f2p before it launched and why.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · June 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

LOL what even IS the "justice system?" Like there is this overly convoluted and cheesy court system you go through because you killed an opposing factions guard or something?

It's a TES thing. You MMO wienies really are funny.

It's not actually for you. It's for us TES people, not just more grist for your rather lame mill.

Cogo · June 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

@cogo the definition of success in the game industry means "we paid off development costs and were now making a profit".

That doesnt typically happen in the first few months.

SWTOR went f2p for example, because it wasnt bringing enough revenue in to make up for salaries and development. Free to play relies on grabbing a guy thatll blow a load of cash thatll play a while and then come back later. High turnover of those types. Brings in more money than low pop sub games.

So basically if youre a nickel in the black its technically a success.

You might be right! I do realize I am not part of any big group Type of player. I only play a MMO that I like the core of, and I see myself playing in 6 months.

Bugs/lags/problems/imbalance. All those things can get fixed if the game is run by a good company. Which in my view it is, so that is why I simply dont care about "bugs". Bugs gets fixed by the right company running the game.
I am a long term MMO player. I don't play any MMO for less then a month.

Success of a game, and why ESO has good business model for a long term game, is very well explained by this guy.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1vsez2/why_im_happy_eso_is_not_f2p_by_someone_who_works/

Cant view that link in my phone because reddit doesnt load right.

I only know for SWTOR because one of my acquaintances from another game(guildmate actually) worked on it and saw this going into live. He knew itd go f2p before it launched and why.

Funny, thats what the guy in the link said. Those words. The company for SWTOR already planned it to be F2p. Sad....since that start area story was feking awesome.

Why do everyone read on their phones!!! Lol! Im the only one who sits in a comfy chair, got a proper DESKTOP computer I built myself with the correct parts to make it perform in any game as lagless as possible. ;-)

Mablung · June 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

@cogo the definition of success in the game industry means "we paid off development costs and were now making a profit".

That doesnt typically happen in the first few months.

SWTOR went f2p for example, because it wasnt bringing enough revenue in to make up for salaries and development. Free to play relies on grabbing a guy thatll blow a load of cash thatll play a while and then come back later. High turnover of those types. Brings in more money than low pop sub games.

So basically if youre a nickel in the black its technically a success.

You might be right! I do realize I am not part of any big group Type of player. I only play a MMO that I like the core of, and I see myself playing in 6 months.

Bugs/lags/problems/imbalance. All those things can get fixed if the game is run by a good company. Which in my view it is, so that is why I simply dont care about "bugs". Bugs gets fixed by the right company running the game.
I am a long term MMO player. I don't play any MMO for less then a month.

Success of a game, and why ESO has good business model for a long term game, is very well explained by this guy.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1vsez2/why_im_happy_eso_is_not_f2p_by_someone_who_works/

Cant view that link in my phone because reddit doesnt load right.

I only know for SWTOR because one of my acquaintances from another game(guildmate actually) worked on it and saw this going into live. He knew itd go f2p before it launched and why.

SWtoR was always going to go F2P. This was something they never denied. Microtransactions were a core part of their development. They constantly talked about it during beta and the community was so against it. They had the foresight at least to know their game would be niche and not be sustainable with P2P even during development.

Nice try though with the always useful 'I know someone who worked on the game' line.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Speaking from experience here:

Low level areas, 1-50, on US servers are booming with players.
Low vet levels aren't so hot, but if you stand at a world boss for 10 minutes, one or two others are bound to come around.
High vet levels (6+) are fairly empty of other players.

Campaign pop for midday US server on a Sunday is showing Wabbajack full with AD and EP lockouts, Bloodthorn two bars on three, and Auriel's Bow got two bars on AD but one bar otherwise. Other campaigns are fairly empty.

Now let's throw some little details out: this isn't gaming prime time. To fill one of those campaigns takes how many players? Many players get burned out on the VR grind and the next difficulty spike at high VR's, and reroll new alts.

New players coming in are experiencing a very different game than pre-launch adopters. Not as many bugs, less balance issues, more difficult PvP campaigns, solid population (but not launch day scramble).

Then we consider that this game will effectively have TWO launches: day one PC launch, and then a fresh back of PC players and Xbox One and PS4 players when the consoles launch and advertising ramps up again.

All they have to do is keep the game running till that second 'window' arrives, and I have a feeling consumer impressions of this game will be VERY different.

None of this is saying that ZOS is doing it right or wrong. Just that I don't see this game failing anytime soon, and if we could just get launch day sales and first-month subscriptions, I'd bet ZOS did a lot to get this games development cycle into the black, if not close.

Cogo · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Now let's throw some little details out: this isn't gaming prime time. To fill one of those campaigns takes how many players? Many players get burned out on the VR grind and the next difficulty spike at high VR's, and reroll new alts.

New players coming in are experiencing a very different game than pre-launch adopters. Not as many bugs, less balance issues, more difficult PvP campaigns, solid population (but not launch day scramble).

I agree! But I do not believe you have to wait 6 months before Cyrodiil, graglorn, Vet areas, and all new cool things coming will work just fine and are crowded just like other zones will be.

ESO have 1 really good thing. Most games gets empty zones after a while. So far, theres players all over the place. Vet 1 areas are just now starting to be a little more. But after this week patch, and some more time when more people, who are busy PLAYING the game and grinding ;-), reaches Vet levels...they will be just as populated.

The problem is people raising to fast to highest lvl and think thats the game.

And of course, as you say, new players now, they play a working game. Not like us who did on launch. BUT anyone who been in ANY MMO, knows that launch is just that. Full of problems etc and it takes time before stuff gets fixed.

Also, like you say, this is summer. And for some reason I never understood. For 17 years, in over 20 different MMOs, summertime always have less players.....they come back august.

Mablung · June 2014

I think it is safe to assume that this game has been profitable. I believe I read that pre order sales for the digital download alone were 1 million. That is a nice chunk of change even if only 1/4 of those were purchased. Now factor in those who bought extended subscriptions. Nice haul of green.

Financially the game is far from dead. Factor in also that Bethesda is the parent company and has fairly deep pockets. The game will continue to go through this live development phase. As a consumer, I think it is more worrisome to think about a console launch and the probability of it not happening or at least not happening for a specific console.

Cogo · June 2014

Mablung wrote: »

I think it is safe to assume that this game has been profitable. I believe I read that pre order sales for the digital download alone were 1 million. That is a nice chunk of change even if only 1/4 of those were purchased. Now factor in those who bought extended subscriptions. Nice haul of green.

Financially the game is far from dead. Factor in also that Bethesda is the parent company and has fairly deep pockets. The game will continue to go through this live development phase. As a consumer, I think it is more worrisome to think about a console launch and the probability of it not happening or at least not happening for a specific console.

Man, I know you think I am a muppet, but you just made me even MORE sure about ESOs future. If you see the future for the game......well, thats 100x more worth coming from someone who complained so much to say that.

Regarding consuls, my ONLY concern WAS that they would have the same server for consuls as for PC. They confirmed consuls will have their own server so I am happy with that.

Release on consuls isn't just a 100% sure thing, its stupid not to. Loads of cash there. You'll get my house if they don't launch it on consuls, and as many types they can without having to rewrite to much code. Simply to much money to not get, to not launch it.

My question would rather be how ESO will work in 1 year. On the PC side I have no worries. But I know to little about consuls and the consul player, to know if they can:

1. Updates, which will be needed weekly or at least monthly with added content etc. Is this possible on a play machine? ESO do add/fix things...thats neverending. And good! But on a consul?

2. A part of MMO is communication with other players. Zone chat, getting groups (You do get groups other then group tool) guilds etc. I know consuls CAN have a keyboard. But will the consul player be interested or even able to use this?

3. One of my favorite games, Fallout 3, and New Vegas was a hit on consuls. Surprised me, since my impression was these games you play for hours even half a day sometimes was not for consult players, who play 35 mins.
Is an MMO, where you need to spend a lot of time to experience the whole game, something consul players would accept/be interested in?

Like crafting, will they accept waiting weeks for research? Or not be able to buy everything they need, right away? Rare items?

4. MMO end game raids. Right now we have only trials and 12 man raid + the new vet12 dungeon in Craglorn in patch 1.2. But there will be more. How would consul players solve raiding? Raid groups, wiping lots before getting close to beat it? Its a smaller part of ESO, I know, but still its a part. Will that be exuded or can that work on consul players as well?

This might be very stupid questions where everyone have the answer too. I just dont know since I have no interest in consuls.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Mablung wrote: »

I think it is safe to assume that this game has been profitable. I believe I read that pre order sales for the digital download alone were 1 million. That is a nice chunk of change even if only 1/4 of those were purchased. Now factor in those who bought extended subscriptions. Nice haul of green.

Financially the game is far from dead. Factor in also that Bethesda is the parent company and has fairly deep pockets. The game will continue to go through this live development phase. As a consumer, I think it is more worrisome to think about a console launch and the probability of it not happening or at least not happening for a specific console.

I'm worried about them saying 'Sorry Xbox One, but Microsoft is just too much of a pain and we're not going there.' Of course, they won't say it that way, but that's the way it'll be.

I really was looking for Dust 514 on Xbox, and CCP hit up Microsoft first. Good old M$ said 'not just no, but no thank you sir' when CCP wouldn't budge on making Dust communicate with the CCP EvE client.

Sakiri · June 2014

Mablung wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

@cogo the definition of success in the game industry means "we paid off development costs and were now making a profit".

That doesnt typically happen in the first few months.

SWTOR went f2p for example, because it wasnt bringing enough revenue in to make up for salaries and development. Free to play relies on grabbing a guy thatll blow a load of cash thatll play a while and then come back later. High turnover of those types. Brings in more money than low pop sub games.

So basically if youre a nickel in the black its technically a success.

You might be right! I do realize I am not part of any big group Type of player. I only play a MMO that I like the core of, and I see myself playing in 6 months.

Bugs/lags/problems/imbalance. All those things can get fixed if the game is run by a good company. Which in my view it is, so that is why I simply dont care about "bugs". Bugs gets fixed by the right company running the game.
I am a long term MMO player. I don't play any MMO for less then a month.

Success of a game, and why ESO has good business model for a long term game, is very well explained by this guy.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1vsez2/why_im_happy_eso_is_not_f2p_by_someone_who_works/

Cant view that link in my phone because reddit doesnt load right.

I only know for SWTOR because one of my acquaintances from another game(guildmate actually) worked on it and saw this going into live. He knew itd go f2p before it launched and why.

SWtoR was always going to go F2P. This was something they never denied. Microtransactions were a core part of their development. They constantly talked about it during beta and the community was so against it. They had the foresight at least to know their game would be niche and not be sustainable with P2P even during development.

Nice try though with the always useful 'I know someone who worked on the game' line.

Hes on my fb friends list and currently working on a warhammer game. Ill make sure to let him know he doesnt exist.

Sakiri · June 2014

Cogo wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Now let's throw some little details out: this isn't gaming prime time. To fill one of those campaigns takes how many players? Many players get burned out on the VR grind and the next difficulty spike at high VR's, and reroll new alts.

New players coming in are experiencing a very different game than pre-launch adopters. Not as many bugs, less balance issues, more difficult PvP campaigns, solid population (but not launch day scramble).

I agree! But I do not believe you have to wait 6 months before Cyrodiil, graglorn, Vet areas, and all new cool things coming will work just fine and are crowded just like other zones will be.

ESO have 1 really good thing. Most games gets empty zones after a while. So far, theres players all over the place. Vet 1 areas are just now starting to be a little more. But after this week patch, and some more time when more people, who are busy PLAYING the game and grinding ;-), reaches Vet levels...they will be just as populated.

The problem is people raising to fast to highest lvl and think thats the game.

And of course, as you say, new players now, they play a working game. Not like us who did on launch. BUT anyone who been in ANY MMO, knows that launch is just that. Full of problems etc and it takes time before stuff gets fixed.

Also, like you say, this is summer. And for some reason I never understood. For 17 years, in over 20 different MMOs, summertime always have less players.....they come back august.

Because theyre all outside doing things. I know I hate staying home all day when I could be enjoying the ocean.

Cogo · June 2014

Outside??? Um...I did go outside once.....saw a person, got scared, ran home!

Not doing that again!

Mablung · June 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

@cogo the definition of success in the game industry means "we paid off development costs and were now making a profit".

That doesnt typically happen in the first few months.

SWTOR went f2p for example, because it wasnt bringing enough revenue in to make up for salaries and development. Free to play relies on grabbing a guy thatll blow a load of cash thatll play a while and then come back later. High turnover of those types. Brings in more money than low pop sub games.

So basically if youre a nickel in the black its technically a success.

You might be right! I do realize I am not part of any big group Type of player. I only play a MMO that I like the core of, and I see myself playing in 6 months.

Bugs/lags/problems/imbalance. All those things can get fixed if the game is run by a good company. Which in my view it is, so that is why I simply dont care about "bugs". Bugs gets fixed by the right company running the game.
I am a long term MMO player. I don't play any MMO for less then a month.

Success of a game, and why ESO has good business model for a long term game, is very well explained by this guy.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1vsez2/why_im_happy_eso_is_not_f2p_by_someone_who_works/

Cant view that link in my phone because reddit doesnt load right.

I only know for SWTOR because one of my acquaintances from another game(guildmate actually) worked on it and saw this going into live. He knew itd go f2p before it launched and why.

SWtoR was always going to go F2P. This was something they never denied. Microtransactions were a core part of their development. They constantly talked about it during beta and the community was so against it. They had the foresight at least to know their game would be niche and not be sustainable with P2P even during development.

Nice try though with the always useful 'I know someone who worked on the game' line.

Hes on my fb friends list and currently working on a warhammer game. Ill make sure to let him know he doesnt exist.

Reading comprehension for the win!

Nowhere did I say he does not exist. So...yeah.....

Mablung · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

I think it is safe to assume that this game has been profitable. I believe I read that pre order sales for the digital download alone were 1 million. That is a nice chunk of change even if only 1/4 of those were purchased. Now factor in those who bought extended subscriptions. Nice haul of green.

Financially the game is far from dead. Factor in also that Bethesda is the parent company and has fairly deep pockets. The game will continue to go through this live development phase. As a consumer, I think it is more worrisome to think about a console launch and the probability of it not happening or at least not happening for a specific console.

I'm worried about them saying 'Sorry Xbox One, but Microsoft is just too much of a pain and we're not going there.' Of course, they won't say it that way, but that's the way it'll be.

I really was looking for Dust 514 on Xbox, and CCP hit up Microsoft first. Good old M$ said 'not just no, but no thank you sir' when CCP wouldn't budge on making Dust communicate with the CCP EvE client.

Exactly what I think. XBox One is not going to have this game on its console. Not as an MMO anyhow. Who wants to pay the Live service fee along with a monthly mmo fee?

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Mablung wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

I think it is safe to assume that this game has been profitable. I believe I read that pre order sales for the digital download alone were 1 million. That is a nice chunk of change even if only 1/4 of those were purchased. Now factor in those who bought extended subscriptions. Nice haul of green.

Financially the game is far from dead. Factor in also that Bethesda is the parent company and has fairly deep pockets. The game will continue to go through this live development phase. As a consumer, I think it is more worrisome to think about a console launch and the probability of it not happening or at least not happening for a specific console.

I'm worried about them saying 'Sorry Xbox One, but Microsoft is just too much of a pain and we're not going there.' Of course, they won't say it that way, but that's the way it'll be.

I really was looking for Dust 514 on Xbox, and CCP hit up Microsoft first. Good old M$ said 'not just no, but no thank you sir' when CCP wouldn't budge on making Dust communicate with the CCP EvE client.

Exactly what I think. XBox One is not going to have this game on its console. Not as an MMO anyhow. Who wants to pay the Live service fee along with a monthly mmo fee?

Especially after Microsoft just changed their policy about video services not requiring Xbox Live. No word if this is going to be reflected with MMO's that don't use Xbox Lives gaming service or not. There's a little bit of confusion there, on whether outside servers count as still using Xbox Live gaming service.

It doesn't affect me much, as I buy my sub by the year (Halo fan). But it affects the game coming to Xbone.

Synfaer · June 2014

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Many of your previous discussions are simply complaints and rants.. Do you not enjoy this game?

People need to accept that there is nothing wrong with complaining and ranting. The problem is posting in a way that is easily understandable especially if english is not your primary language. It can be hard to understand the points being made and creates a lot of confusion for everyone.

People need to accept that there is nothing wrong with complaining and ranting.

Why do I need to accept it??
Maybe you get what you want by ranting and complaining, is that why we have to accept it?

Phinix1 · June 2014

Part of the misunderstanding here is probably due to my posting a thread about the MMO *industry* on the general forum of a specific MMO. It does tend to imply that I must necessarily be talking about ESO, doesn't it.

I assure you though, that was not the case. Though there are specific things that can always improve (and here as well), I am generally happy with ESO.

Otherwise I wouldn't be here, would I?

AinGeal · June 2014

Synfaer wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Many of your previous discussions are simply complaints and rants.. Do you not enjoy this game?

People need to accept that there is nothing wrong with complaining and ranting. The problem is posting in a way that is easily understandable especially if english is not your primary language. It can be hard to understand the points being made and creates a lot of confusion for everyone.

People need to accept that there is nothing wrong with complaining and ranting.

Why do I need to accept it??
Maybe you get what you want by ranting and complaining, is that why we have to accept it?

Because complaining about people complaining will not make them stop complaining.

lioslinn · June 2014

Whoah did you forget your meds or something? Why so much toxic anger heh. It doesn't help get your point across at all.

Let's see... What I understood is

1. We we we we we .... I can assure you, you don't speak for me....
2. Innovation and trying new ideas is bad
3.wow had deep consistent ans compelling lore...what huh?!

I'm afraid i disagree with all of the above... Perhaps you're a frustrated writer hoping to be hired by a mmo company? Just trying to make sense of your post...