The problem with modern MMOs...

Elloa

We want a dungeon finder that groups us with similarly geared and experienced players, not a "lfg" spam channel where you get hooked up with one maddeningly fail-pug after another.

NOPE.
I don't want a Dungeon Finder. I hate Dungeon finders. Dungeon Finder are what made Tanks prima dona elitist that leave their group as soon as the rest of the group do not follow his will. Dungeons Finder are the reasons why MMO people think that clicking on a button will magicaly give them epic. Dungeon Finder are the reasons why players do not speak with each other anymore. Dungeons Finder is the WORST decision World of Warcraft ever made, transoforming for ever the MMO landscape and making every other MMO forced to follow.
I hate it and I do not use it.

Atleast in ESO, I easily find group by asking the chat, and this is how I'm making friends.

Fleymark

The problem with modern MMOs is that "modern" encompasses the same time frame as "post 2004," the year the game that destroyed the genre released.

Since that festering turd dumbed everything down, attracted the masses, and put up the numbers that it did every game since has either tried to be like it and sucked or been infested by people who liked it and sucked. We now have an entire playerbase of people who think they are MMO players yet expect everything to be soloable and easy. They expect MMOs to be interactive movies where it's all about story and questing and you get everything handed to you just for showing up with the only required interaction with other players being chat. MMOs originated around the premise of people being able to do things together that they could not accomplish on their own. To these idiots that, the very point of MMOs, is called "forced grouping." LOL

And there hasn't been a truly good, much less great, MMO since as a result.

SilverWF

Kulrig wrote: »

Most of the time they get a dungeon finder that groups us with an idiot, an elitist jerk who can't run dungeons with his guild because they don't like him either, a brand new healer that thinks he knows everything since he read a guide, and someone who AFKs until kicked.

And this is not only TESO problem.

R1ckyDaMan

All I got was stop trying new things and make a wow clone..

Shaun98ca2

Elloa wrote: »

We want a dungeon finder that groups us with similarly geared and experienced players, not a "lfg" spam channel where you get hooked up with one maddeningly fail-pug after another.

NOPE.
I don't want a Dungeon Finder. I hate Dungeon finders. Dungeon Finder are what made Tanks prima dona elitist that leave their group as soon as the rest of the group do not follow his will. Dungeons Finder are the reasons why MMO people think that clicking on a button will magicaly give them epic. Dungeon Finder are the reasons why players do not speak with each other anymore. Dungeons Finder is the WORST decision World of Warcraft ever made, transoforming for ever the MMO landscape and making every other MMO forced to follow.
I hate it and I do not use it.

Atleast in ESO, I easily find group by asking the chat, and this is how I'm making friends.

While I can understand your issue with dungeon finders, Its also nice for those that really don't have time to spam chat to find a group the "talk" to another person you really don't care to get to know, just for a quick run through a dungeon.

Now booth instances provide 2 very different and similar experiences. The LFG button just gives an experience of convenience where "Typical games" you hit the button go about your business till your taken to the dungeon.

The you typically need to wait in a convenient location while asking for a group. This becomes frustrating as you want to play the game and not sit and wait. Now you can attempt to go and play while asking for a group but its very hard especially in this game to chat and fight at the same time. Then on the off chance you do find a group...The chances of making a new friend really seem about the same in most typical MMOs due to the nature of the game.....Faster is better, but communication is harder unless you have voice chat.


Its really not like the old days of say EQLive where getting a group meant you really got to chat with somebody new or make a new friend. The combat their was SLOW where you could hold multiple conversations at once and still never miss a beat in combat.

For todays day and age.......If there isn't an amazing LFG tool the game suffers greatly from as people really need it for convenience.

ShADoW0s

Fleymark wrote: »

The problem with modern MMOs is that "modern" encompasses the same time frame as "post 2004," the year the game that destroyed the genre released.

Since that festering turd dumbed everything down, attracted the masses, and put up the numbers that it did every game since has either tried to be like it and sucked or been infested by people who liked it and sucked. We now have an entire playerbase of people who think they are MMO players yet expect everything to be soloable and easy. They expect MMOs to be interactive movies where it's all about story and questing and you get everything handed to you just for showing up with the only required interaction with other players being chat. MMOs originated around the premise of people being able to do things together that they could not accomplish on their own. To these idiots that, the very point of MMOs, is called "forced grouping." LOL

And there hasn't been a truly good, much less great, MMO since as a result.

Mate how is any supposed to complete group content, which you so eagerly desire in this game, or any game of that matter, in 6 months time when all/most of the player base is at max level?

Questing is not supposed to be difficult or time consuming, its a story, its to develop your character and show the players the ropes and make them try new things along the way. Sure have some hard bosses, but it should NOT require grouping.

You can have hard group content, I really love that too, but that should only be end game stuff where there is a bunch of player to always run the content and keep it alive. Also if you are a true MMO player you would quickly work out that fighting trash mobs that do abnormal damgae and only know 2 attacks is no skill, which you seem to have alot of.

MongooseOne

You guys can keep tossing the blame onto the many gaming companies but all you have to do is take a look at ANY of the many MMO forums to see where the problem with today's MMOs truly lie.

The problem with today's MMOs are the people playing them.

AinGeal

The problem with MMOs is that they try to put a new spin on the same old *** and call it 'new and innovative'.

fredarbonab14_ESO

I am still wondering who is 'we' and why doesn't the OP just quit and spare us the histrionics altogether.

ThisOnePosts

Most of us want an ES justice system. I think that would make for some very fun times while waiting for the next content to be released! Heck they could have a mode where PVP gets turned on in the regular PVE lands and you go try and take people to jail to collect a reward. Now before everyone cries about it.... just think about it!!!!!!!!!!!! At least I feel that would be fun. The amount of hours spent in Red Dead Redemption online doing similar things, it was like creating mini games within a game that had very high replay value.

Enkil

LMAO.. the problem is game developers are chasing profit and losing sight of what is possible... they lose their imagination for the sake of a buck/euro....

If you build it, they will come....

Tamriel/Elder Scrolls is prime real estate for a thriving, vigorous, complex alternate reality that we all would love to be a part of....

joshisanonymous

Uhh, I have no idea what this is about. The couple things I do understand in the OP do not apply to me at all, so being lumped together with those arguments is off-putting.

Fleymark

ShADoW0s wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

The problem with modern MMOs is that "modern" encompasses the same time frame as "post 2004," the year the game that destroyed the genre released.

Since that festering turd dumbed everything down, attracted the masses, and put up the numbers that it did every game since has either tried to be like it and sucked or been infested by people who liked it and sucked. We now have an entire playerbase of people who think they are MMO players yet expect everything to be soloable and easy. They expect MMOs to be interactive movies where it's all about story and questing and you get everything handed to you just for showing up with the only required interaction with other players being chat. MMOs originated around the premise of people being able to do things together that they could not accomplish on their own. To these idiots that, the very point of MMOs, is called "forced grouping." LOL

And there hasn't been a truly good, much less great, MMO since as a result.

Mate how is any supposed to complete group content, which you so eagerly desire in this game, or any game of that matter, in 6 months time when all/most of the player base is at max level?

Questing is not supposed to be difficult or time consuming, its a story, its to develop your character and show the players the ropes and make them try new things along the way. Sure have some hard bosses, but it should NOT require grouping.

You can have hard group content, I really love that too, but that should only be end game stuff where there is a bunch of player to always run the content and keep it alive. Also if you are a true MMO player you would quickly work out that fighting trash mobs that do abnormal damgae and only know 2 attacks is no skill, which you seem to have alot of.

LOL See?

Phinix1

Fleymark wrote: »

ShADoW0s wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

The problem with modern MMOs is that "modern" encompasses the same time frame as "post 2004," the year the game that destroyed the genre released.

Since that festering turd dumbed everything down, attracted the masses, and put up the numbers that it did every game since has either tried to be like it and sucked or been infested by people who liked it and sucked. We now have an entire playerbase of people who think they are MMO players yet expect everything to be soloable and easy. They expect MMOs to be interactive movies where it's all about story and questing and you get everything handed to you just for showing up with the only required interaction with other players being chat. MMOs originated around the premise of people being able to do things together that they could not accomplish on their own. To these idiots that, the very point of MMOs, is called "forced grouping." LOL

And there hasn't been a truly good, much less great, MMO since as a result.

Mate how is any supposed to complete group content, which you so eagerly desire in this game, or any game of that matter, in 6 months time when all/most of the player base is at max level?

Questing is not supposed to be difficult or time consuming, its a story, its to develop your character and show the players the ropes and make them try new things along the way. Sure have some hard bosses, but it should NOT require grouping.

You can have hard group content, I really love that too, but that should only be end game stuff where there is a bunch of player to always run the content and keep it alive. Also if you are a true MMO player you would quickly work out that fighting trash mobs that do abnormal damgae and only know 2 attacks is no skill, which you seem to have alot of.

LOL See?

Yes, I see.

I see that you are passive aggressively insulting a man with a legitimate point because you feel compelled to defend something which failed to deliver many of those aspects that most people have come to expect and enjoy, which is why this game is hemorrhaging subscriptions only 3 months in.

Perhaps there is some tight-knit hardcore contingent that LOVE grindy, overly tuned games that punish you rather than entertain you. These are the "rush-to-cap" mashers that click through content and can't be bothered to actually READ anything, and then sit at level cap complaining about how there is no content and how much other people suck compared to their amazing elitist grind-leveling skills.

What this person you insult says is absolutely true. Questing is to develop your character and to develop the STORY behind your character. Leaving out the story for the sake of tedious grinding is unrealistic, not very entertaining, and makes your character feel like a pushover who got his lunch money stolen every day. You don't have to make a cheese-ball WoW clone with no challenge to have a complex story and a balanced end-game with meaningful rewards. They are NOT mutually exclusive.

The group content in a GOOD MMO should take the form of organized PVP (which this game completely fails at due to the lack of open world PVP phasing, for massive raids with powerful and unique loot that give you some sense of reward, which this game has none of whatsoever, and for other end-game content that is designed to be a challenge, which the tedious and over-tuned veteran 4-mans fail to deliver in a fun way.

It sounds like you just want to mash to level cap skipping all the text and play a hollow, forced-grouping whack-a-mole that makes you feel "elite" but everyone else thinks is empty, tedious, and unrewarding. No thanks. I'm not that masochistic.

Also, as far as "forced grouping" is concerned. Do you really look back on the days of people getting fired from their job because they were on crack to stay up until 4am with their "hardcore" EQ guilds to "beat the asians" with some sort of nostalgic fondness? Who wants to be limited in a PAID SUBSCRIPTION GAME to only be able to do content when all their tight-knit friends are online?

Honestly, who remembers people they randomly group up with in a game the next day, even if they ENJOY grouping with them? Especially with this stupid @AccountName system, all you end up with is unrecognizable account name spam logged in and out over and over as people dump all their junk to their banker alts until you finally empty your friends list because you never really play with these people anyway?

I do like a lot of ESO that is done right. Dolmens are fun, 1-50 was fun, the non-veteran dungeons were fun, even veteran leveling up to Veteran 5 has been fun. There is simply a lot missing and it is showing in peoples frustration on the forums.

But it is an industry problem as much as a problem with this game. Too many companies are trolling the forums of other games, trying to crank out an entire MMO based on the complaints of the last one, or some gimmick of the moment without investing in the core SUBSTANCE that makes these titles last.

That is what happens when money becomes your ONLY motivation.

Whatever you might think about WoW, it had deep, consistent, and compelling lore, which carried the faults of that game all the way through to Wrath, after which it fell apart due to forced multiculturalism and ridiculous gimmicks that made no sense to the genre like freaking Kung-Fu Panda and content built for 2-year-olds.

Sakiri

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

LOL what even IS the "justice system?" Like there is this overly convoluted and cheesy court system you go through because you killed an opposing factions guard or something?

Theyre thinking theives guild, getting arrested for stealing/tresspassing.

No you know whats wrong with modern mmos?

People that want old school eq, swg, asian grinders like ffxi back.

They dont want the genre to evolve.

I guess sitting in ECL tunnel hawking wares or lfg for hours as a newbie before knowing anyone(or as a dime a dozen dps) is fun.

Or needing more than three hours per session.

Etc.

I dont miss those days at all.

Sakiri

Elloa wrote: »

We want a dungeon finder that groups us with similarly geared and experienced players, not a "lfg" spam channel where you get hooked up with one maddeningly fail-pug after another.

NOPE.
I don't want a Dungeon Finder. I hate Dungeon finders. Dungeon Finder are what made Tanks prima dona elitist that leave their group as soon as the rest of the group do not follow his will. Dungeons Finder are the reasons why MMO people think that clicking on a button will magicaly give them epic. Dungeon Finder are the reasons why players do not speak with each other anymore. Dungeons Finder is the WORST decision World of Warcraft ever made, transoforming for ever the MMO landscape and making every other MMO forced to follow.
I hate it and I do not use it.

Atleast in ESO, I easily find group by asking the chat, and this is how I'm making friends.

Sorry son, that existed before wow.

Trust me. I did it there too.

Ser Lobo

Wait, this is the problem of MODERN MMO's?

I thought the creativity and ingenuity and courage to do new things was what made the Golden Era of MMO's, before the creation of WoW, so great.

Man, I've been confused for 15 years now.

Shanna

The problem is, imo....people are drawn to the same classic elements over and over and over again. Take those elements away, and you lose people's interest. All of the classics involve a hero's struggle, which includes: a short stage of bliss, followed by iffy times (bliss ended too soon,) followed by near-death-experience, followed by redemption. In some form, an rpg needs to follow this formula.

The only way that I see this formula happening is if I transpose my short stage of bliss over my anticipation of the game, the iffy times as my 1-50, and my Vet stages as near-death.

Ser Lobo

Shanna wrote: »

The problem is, imo....people are drawn to the same classic elements over and over and over again. Take those elements away, and you lose people's interest. All of the classics involve a hero's struggle, which includes: a short stage of bliss, followed by iffy times (bliss ended too soon,) followed by near-death-experience, followed by redemption. In some form, an rpg needs to follow this formula.

The only way that I see this formula happening is if I transpose my short stage of bliss over my anticipation of the game, the iffy times as my 1-50, and my Vet stages as near-death.

Agreed. I never understood why someone would watch soap opera's or any of the standard 'drama' shows on TV. They are repetitious from episode to episode, EXTREMELY predictable, and not enjoyable to me.

Wife watches one of those crappy vampire angst shows. Her favorite character just died a few episodes back. "Watch, they'll come back alive by the season finale." Loe and behold ...

MasterSpatula

You really have a problem with "multiculturalism?" This story is about a war based partially on centuries of racial conflict and oppression. That's Elder Scrolls lore. That's the game you signed on to.

Also, most people at least have enough shame to couch it in something like, "I'm not against multiculturalism, but...."

AinGeal

Shanna wrote: »

The problem is, imo....people are drawn to the same classic elements over and over and over again. Take those elements away, and you lose people's interest. All of the classics involve a hero's struggle, which includes: a short stage of bliss, followed by iffy times (bliss ended too soon,) followed by near-death-experience, followed by redemption. In some form, an rpg needs to follow this formula.

The only way that I see this formula happening is if I transpose my short stage of bliss over my anticipation of the game, the iffy times as my 1-50, and my Vet stages as near-death.

As far as MMOs go, one of the best I've played was EVE. No "hero's struggle" at all in that one. You're character isn't made out to be a hero by the 'story' because there really is no set story. The content of the game is player/player interaction. The story is when one alliance loses half their systems to another alliance or when all the assets of a corp get stolen by a member that went rogue. Just for those who don't know, actual players make up those alliances.

Dusty5

In before shutdown.OP BRAVO SIR!! WELL SAID +5 INTERNETS

kirnmalidus

MasterSpatula wrote: »

You really have a problem with "multiculturalism?" This story is about a war based partially on centuries of racial conflict and oppression. That's Elder Scrolls lore. That's the game you signed on to.

Also, most people at least have enough shame to couch it in something like, "I'm not against multiculturalism, but...."

He did in his first comment. "I'm not a racist but…" never ends well. Just don't use this phrase people. And then don't say anything else you were going to say after it.

You really should just feel sorry for him. Just think about all of the things he'll never experience.

Shanna

kirnmalidus wrote: »

You really should just feel sorry for him. Just think about all of the things he'll never experience.

bull, and longer bull.

Sakiri

AinGeal wrote: »

Shanna wrote: »

The problem is, imo....people are drawn to the same classic elements over and over and over again. Take those elements away, and you lose people's interest. All of the classics involve a hero's struggle, which includes: a short stage of bliss, followed by iffy times (bliss ended too soon,) followed by near-death-experience, followed by redemption. In some form, an rpg needs to follow this formula.

The only way that I see this formula happening is if I transpose my short stage of bliss over my anticipation of the game, the iffy times as my 1-50, and my Vet stages as near-death.

As far as MMOs go, one of the best I've played was EVE. No "hero's struggle" at all in that one. You're character isn't made out to be a hero by the 'story' because there really is no set story. The content of the game is player/player interaction. The story is when one alliance loses half their systems to another alliance or when all the assets of a corp get stolen by a member that went rogue. Just for those who don't know, actual players make up those alliances.

Eve is a business simulator. Niche game. Hated it.

Shaun98ca2

The problem with modern MMOs isn't the MMOs themselves. Its todays gamer, MOST of todays MMOer couldn't last 1 month in old school EQLive as they would be level 20 and level 65 is just a dream seeing that player walk by with the glowing sword.

Audigy

I just want to point out that the OP does not speak for me or those I play with. We like the game as it is and enjoy the features such as open world pvp and VR´s. Yes some things need to be improved, while others added - but the core game is great.

If we wanted to play an MMO like any other, then we would had sticked with WOW, SWTOR or GW.

Ser Lobo

Sakiri wrote: »

AinGeal wrote: »

Shanna wrote: »

The problem is, imo....people are drawn to the same classic elements over and over and over again. Take those elements away, and you lose people's interest. All of the classics involve a hero's struggle, which includes: a short stage of bliss, followed by iffy times (bliss ended too soon,) followed by near-death-experience, followed by redemption. In some form, an rpg needs to follow this formula.

The only way that I see this formula happening is if I transpose my short stage of bliss over my anticipation of the game, the iffy times as my 1-50, and my Vet stages as near-death.

As far as MMOs go, one of the best I've played was EVE. No "hero's struggle" at all in that one. You're character isn't made out to be a hero by the 'story' because there really is no set story. The content of the game is player/player interaction. The story is when one alliance loses half their systems to another alliance or when all the assets of a corp get stolen by a member that went rogue. Just for those who don't know, actual players make up those alliances.

Eve is a business simulator. Niche game. Hated it.

EvE has added to it's playerbase every year for over a decade now, growing from a few thousand players to half a million or more. While I agree it's a niche game, no other game on the market can claim that (that I know of).

Plus, it's only gotten better and better, expanding even more content and options. It's hardcore, though. Not for the soft-of-heart, or those of us with lives (like myself, who only plays it every few months or so).

I can only hope that ESO becomes that successful of a niche game. It would be amazing to play this 10 years from now as it's grown and progressed, but still held to it's roots as a AvAvA-focused, story-driven roleplaying game.

Doctoruniverse

Maybe I missed something but what was the new gimmick in ESO ?

Mablung

Doctoruniverse wrote: »

Maybe I missed something but what was the new gimmick in ESO ?

Megaserver, non traditional class roles just to name a couple.