The problem with modern MMOs...

Moiskormoimi

When I think mmo, I instantly think fantasy genre material. I have to be somewhat invested in my character, so there is a minimal RP feel to how I play. My character has to get stronger and 'more epic' as the game goes on for me to continue to have a desire to play it.

I also expect the very basics of most mmos to be well done. Things such as crafting, questing, pvp areas, armor types, dungeons, etc, should be engaging and give the player both a sense of accomplishment and desire to play further. The story doesn't necessarily break it for me, but if everything else isn't up to par, then that will be the clincher for me.

That's why I got my main to VR4. The things that I mentioned have been mediocre and the story from 1-50 is what kept me going. VR ranks pretty much nailed the coffin completely shut for me. Even if they redid them, I don't think I could muster even faint amusement to continue any more. Craglorn doesn't provide much incentive for me to even want to go. My sentiments don't speak for everyone, but it seems I am most definitely not alone.

Ser Lobo

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

When I think mmo, I instantly think fantasy genre material. I have to be somewhat invested in my character, so there is a minimal RP feel to how I play. My character has to get stronger and 'more epic' as the game goes on for me to continue to have a desire to play it.

I also expect the very basics of most mmos to be well done. Things such as crafting, questing, pvp areas, armor types, dungeons, etc, should be engaging and give the player both a sense of accomplishment and desire to play further. The story doesn't necessarily break it for me, but if everything else isn't up to par, then that will be the clincher for me.

That's why I got my main to VR4. The things that I mentioned have been mediocre and the story from 1-50 is what kept me going. VR ranks pretty much nailed the coffin completely shut for me. Even if they redid them, I don't think I could muster even faint amusement to continue any more. Craglorn doesn't provide much incentive for me to even want to go. My sentiments don't speak for everyone, but it seems I am most definitely not alone.

I was with you, up until you hit that last paragraph.

For me, while VR ranks do need an overhaul, everything you mentioned has been met. Great crafting, awesome quests, an absolutely amazing PvP area, wonderful selection of armor types and styles, etc. Engaging, with a sense of accomplishment and a want to explore and see more.

Except maybe dungeons. They are a little lackluster. And as I mention in my sig, Veteran Ranks have a problem of being both harder, and not rewarding us for working harder. Like a promotion at work that includes more responsibilities and work, but no more pay.

Moiskormoimi

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

When I think mmo, I instantly think fantasy genre material. I have to be somewhat invested in my character, so there is a minimal RP feel to how I play. My character has to get stronger and 'more epic' as the game goes on for me to continue to have a desire to play it.

I also expect the very basics of most mmos to be well done. Things such as crafting, questing, pvp areas, armor types, dungeons, etc, should be engaging and give the player both a sense of accomplishment and desire to play further. The story doesn't necessarily break it for me, but if everything else isn't up to par, then that will be the clincher for me.

That's why I got my main to VR4. The things that I mentioned have been mediocre and the story from 1-50 is what kept me going. VR ranks pretty much nailed the coffin completely shut for me. Even if they redid them, I don't think I could muster even faint amusement to continue any more. Craglorn doesn't provide much incentive for me to even want to go. My sentiments don't speak for everyone, but it seems I am most definitely not alone.

I was with you, up until you hit that last paragraph.

For me, while VR ranks do need an overhaul, everything you mentioned has been met. Great crafting, awesome quests, an absolutely amazing PvP area, wonderful selection of armor types and styles, etc. Engaging, with a sense of accomplishment and a want to explore and see more.

Except maybe dungeons. They are a little lackluster. And as I mention in my sig, Veteran Ranks have a problem of being both harder, and not rewarding us for working harder. Like a promotion at work that includes more responsibilities and work, but no more pay.

I disagree. In regards to crafting, they either need to decide the best gear does in fact come from crafting, or it's RNG. As it is right now, you can get the same gear from crafting(with research) as you can from RNG. Crafting to me means you should be able to create something unique only to that particular activity. You should not be able to get the same thing from drops and vice versa.

VR ranks were the lazy man's way of implementing endgame when they didn't have time to come up with an original story for each faction. It's painfully obvious and it's horrid. Most people have done these quests on alts, and the rewards for doing them again at higher difficulty is dismal. This is currently the biggest issue with most people in the game right now.

Armor asthetics are even lacking, as there is repetitive designs throughout the game. If I get a legendary, it shouldn't look like a level 40 equivalent.


I, like a lot of others that sound off on the boards, expect a bit more from a triple A title. Especially one that has as much background behind it as TESO does. You may enjoy it. That's fine. Again, I don't speak for everyone, but a lot of people do share my thoughts. This forum is prime for that.

Ser Lobo

As many share mine. People don't usually come to forums to say they love something, only to say they dislike it. And I don't speak for developers or apologize for them, just say my own mind.

But it's differences of opinion. I, too, would like a game where crafted gear was superior to anything looted. But I think the pragmatist in me realizes this would be a game so contrary to popular mechanics of gear-grind, that it would do more to sink the game than help.

So we get our current system. Dropped gear has better and more unique set bonuses, crafted gear has better base stats. And crafters still need to be around to upgrade an item without needing half a million golden upgrade material.

The veteran grind, while I appreciate the ability to play other factions, was a bust. Infiltrating other factions, sure. But why the vet ranks at all? I don't agree with where they went, and have my own ideas, but I accept that it's what they chose to do. Can't say I enjoy the difficulty increase any more than the next person.

Armor aesthetics, I'm into. I don't want flash or pop, I want good colors and in-world feel. It's why I choose Elder Scrolls games. They aren't over-the-top or anime or cartoony. They are semi-believable. And when you turn the graphics to max, there is a LOT of intricate work on the straps and edgings.



Different strokes for different folks. I've bought into some of the biggest franchises out there, and haven't really had a better experience. Customer service, lore, dev-community relations, developer feedback, etc.

Moiskormoimi

I hear you and respect your opinion.

indytims_ESO

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Oh come on, are we really going to play the symantecs game instead of addressing the issues? What a disappointment.

Why, yes we are going to plan semantics when someone makes grandiose claims full of hyperbole. It kills the argument - semantics or not.

The OP speaks for themselves - not for a community. There are obviously folks who who are looking forward to things like the justice system.

The biggest problem I see in today's MMO blueprint is the attempt to make everyone feel like a special snowflake. But you can't have just one 'Master crafter", or one special item that only one person can acquire, and so on. Whenever this has been done, there's been backlash from players who want access to -everything-.

Invariably - just like in the movie and music industries - a pattern of 'copy-cats' starts to appear. "If the equation worked for WoW, we can do the same, but better!" Of course, those MMO's are trying to take the 'safe road' by copying a tried and true product.

But building a solid, interesting MMO is an expensive thing to do, and very, very difficult. If it were cheap and easy - everyone would be doing it, creating their own 'vision'. ESO is Zenimax's idea of an MMO based on the venerated TES franchise. Their attempt at being different - while doing some things the same. Creating a way to reach 50 without grinding. Creating a main storyline quest with challenging parts that you have to do solo. Removing the usual 'server-wide AH' in favor of guild-run stores. So on and so forth. This is their attempt at carving a niche for themselves. Some people will like it. Some people won't.

Their PVP, to me, is a 90% copy of DAOC's PVP system. I haven't PVP'd much, but the DAOC flashbacks were almost non-stop as I did so - which meant I also enjoyed it. Some people like ESO's PVP system... some people don't.

Ultimately we know you can't please everyone, all the time. Zeni just has to clean-up its act, squash a long list of bugs, make the base game solid - then press on. Hopefully as they do this, they'll keep enough subs to keep content and fixes coming down the pipe.

Just my 2 gold pieces, tho.

AinGeal

indytims_ESO wrote: »

The biggest problem I see in today's MMO blueprint is the attempt to make everyone feel like a special snowflake. But you can't have just one 'Master crafter", or one special item that only one person can acquire, and so on. Whenever this has been done, there's been backlash from players who want access to -everything-.

This statement sheds light on common problem with MMOs. The problem is that everyone wants to see their character stand above the rest. You're right, you can't have this without backlash. The key word though is "above". What about "beside"? Unique and special snowflake doesn't have to equate to better, just different.

Some MMOs use skins as a means of horizontal progression but when comparing horizontal progression to vertical progression, the vertical progression is the superior way to go.

That's not to say that the skins don't have a place with vertical progression. I don't mean just to show the next tier in gear either but as a means to allow player characters to stand out. To stand 'beside' the rest. The only thing you have to watch out for is to make sure that it's not the same 10% getting it each and every time.