Improvements for Stamina-Based Skills and Passives

dsalter · June 2014

increase most stamina based melee damage by 15%, up the weapon damage cap slightly to compensate and MAYBE lower dodge, cc break and block costs for both medium and heavy (more so for heavy) and we might start seeing some diversity

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

Well if you can't see the great balance flaw to happen if all 3 armor types don't get some kind of skill cost reduction, I dont know what to tell you. Just expect to see a great number of people dropping heavy armor. I will be, and I will still use immovable, at a lower cost than the armor type it comes from, and regenerate that stamina at an even faster rate

Seriously tho. Take a little longer than you did to think about balance.

Lyall84 · June 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Well if you can't see the great balance flaw to happen if all 3 armor types don't get some kind of skill cost reduction, I dont know what to tell you. Just expect to see a great number of people dropping heavy armor. I will be, and I will still use immovable brute, at a lower cost than the armor type it comes from

Heavy armor's reduction is suppose to be health loss. Hence the extra armor, spell resistance, healing received and regeneration. That is what you should be looking to improve, not making heavy armor more like medium or light. That reduction in damage received is too low right now. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. If that gets fixed, there will not be a great number of people dropping heavy.

On the other hand, i agree with you on the armor skills. If they don't at least make it a requirement to equip 4 or 5 pieces of the armor that the skill comes from, they should at least make the effects or costs scale off how much of that armor you are wearing.

I know the one morph for immovable increases the duration per piece of heavy, but I think they should change that to apply to all 3 armor skills, and apply to the base skill. Then change the morph to add effectiveness or something.

makkon · June 2014

Bow: Poison Arrow
Poison Arrow’s initial damage should be increased, not DoT

Bow: Snipe
Snipe’s cast time will be reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds. Even with such casting time it is pretty useless.
This spell should be with lower initial damage, but with 0.5-1 sec casting time

Dual Wield: Flurry
The damage for Flurry’s final hit will be increased by 10%.
Do not forget to fix rapid strikes attack speed bug.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

makkon wrote: »

Bow: Poison Arrow
Poison Arrow’s initial damage should be increased, not DoT

Bow: Snipe
Snipe’s cast time will be reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds. Even with such casting time it is pretty useless.
This spell should be with lower initial damage, but with 0.5-1 sec casting time

Dual Wield: Flurry
The damage for Flurry’s final hit will be increased by 10%.
Do not forget to fix rapid strikes attack speed bug.

The reason not to increase the initial damage is to prevent the creation of another spammed attack. The attack would become more about the initial hit and the dot will become an afterthought.

Lyall84 · June 2014

makkon wrote: »

Bow: Poison Arrow
Poison Arrow’s initial damage should be increased, not DoT

Bow: Snipe
Snipe’s cast time will be reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds. Even with such casting time it is pretty useless.
This spell should be with lower initial damage, but with 0.5-1 sec casting time

Dual Wield: Flurry
The damage for Flurry’s final hit will be increased by 10%.
Do not forget to fix rapid strikes attack speed bug.

Poison Arrow - Agree with you at this point of time, only because of animation cancelling. If they ever correct that, DoT effects will become more useful. As of right now, this ability is mainly used as a small damaging ranged interrupt.

Snipe - Absolutely not, do not even think of doing such a thing to Snipe. If you think its useless you are not using it correctly. Sure the quicker casting time would be nice, but the damage needs to be there, and the casting time is there to balance the damage. This is not meant to be a spam ability, this is something you hit someone with while hiding from a distance off, takes off a huge chunk of their health from the start. I do not know what class you play, but this skill is what makes bows work for Nightblades that want to use bows.

Dual Wield - Agree with you, they need to fix rapid strikes so it starts at the end, not the beginning, they also need to fix it so it actually takes 1.5 seconds to cast not 2+ seconds. I would like to see attack speed (from rapid strikes or night blade haste) reduce that channel time, but I don't think that would ever happen.

Lyall84 · June 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

makkon wrote: »

Bow: Poison Arrow
Poison Arrow’s initial damage should be increased, not DoT

Bow: Snipe
Snipe’s cast time will be reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds. Even with such casting time it is pretty useless.
This spell should be with lower initial damage, but with 0.5-1 sec casting time

Dual Wield: Flurry
The damage for Flurry’s final hit will be increased by 10%.
Do not forget to fix rapid strikes attack speed bug.

The reason not to increase the initial damage is to prevent the creation of another spammed attack. The attack would become more about the initial hit and the dot will become an afterthought.

touche on the poison arrow. If they fix animation cancelling, this will become more important.

Sakiri · June 2014

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

I agree with @Layall84 .

As long at the 2H Weapon power cap is that low, (181 for V7 character), anything that gives % bonus on power is getting useless.

And the first thing that is useless when you hit that cap is the Heavy Armour. Because medium raises you crit, stamina regen (even if that little bit) and allow you to defend better (low dodge cost).

While the heavy armour is doesn't actually provide that much more. V7 blue Med-Heavy is something like 500 AC difference.

The next thing that goes is the Greatsword. You put a Maul for that pitiful 80 armour penetration.
You will ask why not Greataxe. Because Brawler dot conflicts with the Greataxe dot and only the later will apply all the time.

Talking about Brawler. Compare it with the Impulse, and there is where the problem resides in Veteran content also.

As long as the VR mobs are that though with that high armour penetration, no melee character build will be viable, if you do not want to face the challenge and frustration.

You mean until mobs have stupid armor/spell penetration you might as well fight naked, and as long as they take 20 years to kill with melee weapons you might as well wear a dress.

Seriously.

My two biggest problems with VR content right now:

Mobs have entirely too much HP - unless you're running an OP DPS build, it takes waaaaay too long to kill something before it kills you

Mobs pretty much ignore armor rating and spell resistance - Might as well not be wearing armor.

There's no benefit to heavy vs light vs medium when you still die just as fast unless you use the dps spec that does the most damage to burn them down before they kill you.

I die int he same amount of time wearing a dress, leather, or full plate.

That's wrong. Waaaay wrong.

Making armor/SR worth a crap and reducing mob HP values will go a long way to making VR tolerable. Maybe even fun. Start with these, and you solve a good bit of the problem with stamina weapons and armor that isn't cloth right now.

Sakiri · June 2014

Lyall84 wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

This is a mistake. ESO is an elder scrolls game and a fantasy mmo. To have a fantasy mmo without the 2 handed Heavy Armor Damage Dealer being viable is unacceptable. No one cares about health regen. Health regen will not save you. 50 hp every 2 sec in combat does nothing when you are solo, and it is not noticeable in group content with healers. Heavy armor DD's should not get the burst that medium and light armor DD's receive because they get added survival, but they should do the same sustained damage over long fights. ditch the health regen bonus on heavy, and give it half the regen that medium gets for stamina and half the regen that light gets for magicka so it can sustain a level damage output. Don't give Heavy armor a crit bonus. Give them a percentage increase to ALL damage dealt, not spell damage or weapon power just damage. That way the number is easier to control/tweak for balance. To say that if you wear heavy armor you have to do less damage than everyone because you take more hits is wrong. There are hard dps checks in pve, and if I want to dps for those boss fights as a HA 2H DD I should have the option to do so. In PVP burst is king, so if you don't put any crit on heavy, the burst will not be there and it can be properly balanced.

I disagree about the hp regen, every little bit helps in longer fights, I would say an increase to the juggernaut bonus would be more effective, instead of .5% and 1%, try 1% and 2%, maybe more depending on how things turn out.

When you're constantly getting hit that regen is garbage.

Complete utter garbage.

In longer fights or shorter fights or medium fights it doesn't get any better. If you have 50 in health regen it is 25hps... 25 hps does not get better or worse with fight duration it stays 25hps, and 25hps in endgame content is nothing. In a full set of HA your health regen is increased by 28%. I am a Nord. naked my health regen is 40. If I go full heavy that is an 11.2 increase to my health regen, so it is an increase of 11. That is 5.5hps I gain in full heavy. That is Crap. You can argue with about it all you want, that doesn't change how bad it is.

Agreed, the heavy armor health regen should be buffed to i would guess, x2 or x3 of what it is now to make it effective.

No, they'd need to make health regen actually *do* something.

For someone in heavy armor, you're not going to get away from something long enough to let it regenerate on it's own to keep you from getting your face smashed in.

Even 75 hps isn't going to fix that when mobs hit for 300+ with spammable light attacks and there's three or four of them on you.

Sakiri · June 2014

Lyall84 wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

I didn't delete the code, the guy I quoted did. He fixed it afterword. And you are right it doesnt make since to try to make it like other elder scrolls games. This includes everything before skyrim as well, because X Y or Z that exists in ESO doesn't exist in any of those either.

Sorry about that then. Didn't notice it was him not you. Even if you take the other elder scrolls games out of the equation, you have to look at all the passives as a hole for each armor.

Light armor for magicka and spells

Medium armor for stamina and abilities

Heavy armor has 4 passives for health and survival, 1 for damage. There is no way that this is suppose to be a serious damage dealing set with only 1 damage augmenting passive.

Like I said before. If this was any other game, where heavy armor was locked to a class, I would agree with you. But because you can mix and match all you want, there is no way that heavy armor should have stamina or magicka regen or reductions on it. If you want that regeneration or reduction, you should be swapping out a piece for light or medium.

The reduction for 2 pieces is so low it's not worth writing home about, honestly.

Trayyacakes · June 2014

Lyall84 wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

I didn't delete the code, the guy I quoted did. He fixed it afterword. And you are right it doesnt make since to try to make it like other elder scrolls games. This includes everything before skyrim as well, because X Y or Z that exists in ESO doesn't exist in any of those either.

Sorry about that then. Didn't notice it was him not you. Even if you take the other elder scrolls games out of the equation, you have to look at all the passives as a hole for each armor.

Light armor for magicka and spells

Medium armor for stamina and abilities

Heavy armor has 4 passives for health and survival, 1 for damage. There is no way that this is suppose to be a serious damage dealing set with only 1 damage augmenting passive.

Like I said before. If this was any other game, where heavy armor was locked to a class, I would agree with you. But because you can mix and match all you want, there is no way that heavy armor should have stamina or magicka regen or reductions on it. If you want that regeneration or reduction, you should be swapping out a piece for light or medium.

So you feel that someone who wears heavy armor should only be a tank, and should not be able to dps. Correct?

Wearing 2 pieces of medium or light will not let you sustain any respectable amount of damage output.

Paladin_echo1 · June 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Many of you have asked what we’re doing to make skills, passives, and builds based on stamina more viable and as attractive as the magicka-based options. Below is a first look at some of the improvements we’re making to stamina-based skills and passives. As with all our balance efforts, this is an ongoing process and there will be more to come. We look forward to hearing your thoughts!

Bow: Poison Arrow
Poison Arrow’s damage-over-time has been increased by 50% overall.

Bow: Snipe
Snipe’s cast time will be reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.

Snipe’s maximum range will be reduced from 40 meters to 35 meters.

Snipe’s minimum range will be reduced from 20 meters to 10 meters.

Dual Wield: Flurry
The damage for Flurry’s final hit will be increased by 10%.

Medium Armor
With the Wind Walker passive, medium armor will reduce stamina costs by 2% per piece equipped.

Two Handed: Cleave
Cleave’s damage-over-time will be increased by 25% overall, and scale as the ability ranks up.

Two Handed: Uppercut
Uppercut’s damage will be increased by 10%.

Uppercut’s global cooldown after use will be reduced by 50%.

Please re evaluate the weapons for the Two handed tree. Jessica if you could possibly have them look at that Heavy Weapon's skill it would be awesome. The pact's greatsword goes through 998 armor, but the two handed mace only goes through 80 armor.

ArRashid · June 2014

I don't believe some ppl are ignorant enough to say that:

1) blocking/dodging as worthless to casters
- it may be worthless to exploiters who just abuse light attacks+Force Shot's animation canceling to deal dps from range.
- otherwise DK pyromancer (the real, non-exploiting build) has the effective range of 6m (thanks to "genius" Talons nerf, lowering our effective range from 8 to 6m). Outside that, I can only use weapon attacks and Blockade of Fire (for it's HUGE area of effect). Not to mention, generally where there's a pack of mobs, 1-2 out of 3 are melees, and at least one is ranged. You can't (on VR at least) allow the ranged one to escape, so you have to jump in and try to root them in place, getting beaten by 3 mobs in the process (because talons have lesser range than melee)

2) snipe is actually getting nerfed
- it's NOT
- reducing range by 5m is nothing. The only thing that was good for was shooting far away enemies in PvP, and even then it was only worth as an initiate, since the loooooong cast time made it impossible to cast it again (well, for those really slow reacting enemies, you could manage 2 snipes)
- reducing casting time and minimum range just made it usable in PvE fights (at least if you do not allow enemies to close in on you). It's damage is still pretty worthless though, and doing one heavy attack is probably still better for DPSing (and costs no stamina to do so).

Lyall84 · June 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

I agree with @Layall84 .

As long at the 2H Weapon power cap is that low, (181 for V7 character), anything that gives % bonus on power is getting useless.

And the first thing that is useless when you hit that cap is the Heavy Armour. Because medium raises you crit, stamina regen (even if that little bit) and allow you to defend better (low dodge cost).

While the heavy armour is doesn't actually provide that much more. V7 blue Med-Heavy is something like 500 AC difference.

The next thing that goes is the Greatsword. You put a Maul for that pitiful 80 armour penetration.
You will ask why not Greataxe. Because Brawler dot conflicts with the Greataxe dot and only the later will apply all the time.

Talking about Brawler. Compare it with the Impulse, and there is where the problem resides in Veteran content also.

As long as the VR mobs are that though with that high armour penetration, no melee character build will be viable, if you do not want to face the challenge and frustration.

You mean until mobs have stupid armor/spell penetration you might as well fight naked, and as long as they take 20 years to kill with melee weapons you might as well wear a dress.

Seriously.

My two biggest problems with VR content right now:

Mobs have entirely too much HP - unless you're running an OP DPS build, it takes waaaaay too long to kill something before it kills you

Mobs pretty much ignore armor rating and spell resistance - Might as well not be wearing armor.

There's no benefit to heavy vs light vs medium when you still die just as fast unless you use the dps spec that does the most damage to burn them down before they kill you.

I die int he same amount of time wearing a dress, leather, or full plate.

That's wrong. Waaaay wrong.

Making armor/SR worth a crap and reducing mob HP values will go a long way to making VR tolerable. Maybe even fun. Start with these, and you solve a good bit of the problem with stamina weapons and armor that isn't cloth right now.

Came across a VR 9 quest mob today (granted a one pip mob found at the end of a quest) that has an insane amount of health. Not too much of an issue, because it does not to too much damage, or its high damage attacks are easily dodged. The issue I have with this mob, is that it does the mender, healing beam thing that ticks for health per second for 8 seconds unless interrupted. This would not be an issue if every tick didn't heal for 20% of their health...So, I sit there for 30-45 seconds dodging and killing, only for them to get 1-2 ticks of healing off before I can interrupt them, bringing them from 60-70% health back to 100% in about 1-2 seconds. I sat there for 10-15 minutes getting no where before I just ran away.

Bottom line, I agree with you, they have some HUGE fixing they need to do for VR content. I am all for making it harder, maybe a bit more health so things take a bit longer to take down. But the damage and healing increase that they have is way too immense.

Lyall84 · June 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

This is a mistake. ESO is an elder scrolls game and a fantasy mmo. To have a fantasy mmo without the 2 handed Heavy Armor Damage Dealer being viable is unacceptable. No one cares about health regen. Health regen will not save you. 50 hp every 2 sec in combat does nothing when you are solo, and it is not noticeable in group content with healers. Heavy armor DD's should not get the burst that medium and light armor DD's receive because they get added survival, but they should do the same sustained damage over long fights. ditch the health regen bonus on heavy, and give it half the regen that medium gets for stamina and half the regen that light gets for magicka so it can sustain a level damage output. Don't give Heavy armor a crit bonus. Give them a percentage increase to ALL damage dealt, not spell damage or weapon power just damage. That way the number is easier to control/tweak for balance. To say that if you wear heavy armor you have to do less damage than everyone because you take more hits is wrong. There are hard dps checks in pve, and if I want to dps for those boss fights as a HA 2H DD I should have the option to do so. In PVP burst is king, so if you don't put any crit on heavy, the burst will not be there and it can be properly balanced.

I disagree about the hp regen, every little bit helps in longer fights, I would say an increase to the juggernaut bonus would be more effective, instead of .5% and 1%, try 1% and 2%, maybe more depending on how things turn out.

When you're constantly getting hit that regen is garbage.

Complete utter garbage.

In longer fights or shorter fights or medium fights it doesn't get any better. If you have 50 in health regen it is 25hps... 25 hps does not get better or worse with fight duration it stays 25hps, and 25hps in endgame content is nothing. In a full set of HA your health regen is increased by 28%. I am a Nord. naked my health regen is 40. If I go full heavy that is an 11.2 increase to my health regen, so it is an increase of 11. That is 5.5hps I gain in full heavy. That is Crap. You can argue with about it all you want, that doesn't change how bad it is.

Agreed, the heavy armor health regen should be buffed to i would guess, x2 or x3 of what it is now to make it effective.

No, they'd need to make health regen actually *do* something.

For someone in heavy armor, you're not going to get away from something long enough to let it regenerate on it's own to keep you from getting your face smashed in.

Even 75 hps isn't going to fix that when mobs hit for 300+ with spammable light attacks and there's three or four of them on you.

That too, not saying that health regeneration doesn't need help. The point I am trying to make is that the boosts to heavy need to be focused on defensive boosts to make it actually heavy armor, not offensive boosts. The offensive part of heavy armor should be how hard they are to kill, not how fast they can kill you.

Lyall84 · June 2014

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

I didn't delete the code, the guy I quoted did. He fixed it afterword. And you are right it doesnt make since to try to make it like other elder scrolls games. This includes everything before skyrim as well, because X Y or Z that exists in ESO doesn't exist in any of those either.

Sorry about that then. Didn't notice it was him not you. Even if you take the other elder scrolls games out of the equation, you have to look at all the passives as a hole for each armor.

Light armor for magicka and spells

Medium armor for stamina and abilities

Heavy armor has 4 passives for health and survival, 1 for damage. There is no way that this is suppose to be a serious damage dealing set with only 1 damage augmenting passive.

Like I said before. If this was any other game, where heavy armor was locked to a class, I would agree with you. But because you can mix and match all you want, there is no way that heavy armor should have stamina or magicka regen or reductions on it. If you want that regeneration or reduction, you should be swapping out a piece for light or medium.

So you feel that someone who wears heavy armor should only be a tank, and should not be able to dps. Correct?

Wearing 2 pieces of medium or light will not let you sustain any respectable amount of damage output.

Correct. Hence why armor is not tied to classes. Everyone that is screaming about how heavy armor needs a big DPS boost is still riding the ruts in the ground of every other MMO out there where the armor type is tied to the class. You say 2 pieces of light will not let you sustain a respectable amount of damage output, of course not when you compare it to a light or medium armored person, but compared to a full heavy armored it will.

This game is suppose to be about having to make the choice between more damage and more survival, the choice between magicka and stamina, chose what skill or armor you want. If you start dumping bits and pieces of everything onto heavy armor, it becomes the only correct choice because it is good at everything.

When they are finished, or at least a lot farther along than they currently are, the light armor should be high magicka damage(which it is), but squishy against physical damage (which it really isnt) medium armor should be high physical damage (not there yet, but getting there), but vulnerable to spell damage (which it is), and heavy armor should be low to medium damage at best (i have already agreed it is on the low side), but insanely tough to kill (not nearly there yet).

There are three things offensively that would help heavy armor wearers to do more damage without ruining the way the armor is set up right now.

First, they need to make it so you need 4+ pieces of the respective armor for the respective skill (talking about immovable or what not) or increase its duration/effect based on number of pieces without morphing it.

Second, they need to up the % from juggernaut from 1% to 2% per piece, and increase the immovable morph from 1% to 2% per piece.

Third, they need to change juggernaut and immovable from melee, to all weapon skills, and make it effect damage and healing. That way you can have your battle mages, and your war priests.

If they did those changes, you would not see medium or light running around with immovable, and for heavy armor users, it would be a 28% increase to damage and healing done. Because they are in heavy armor, it would make it so they could not cast as often do to the lack of regeneration, but it would make the moves they did use count.

Thejollygreenone · June 2014

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

I didn't delete the code, the guy I quoted did. He fixed it afterword. And you are right it doesnt make since to try to make it like other elder scrolls games. This includes everything before skyrim as well, because X Y or Z that exists in ESO doesn't exist in any of those either.

Sorry about that then. Didn't notice it was him not you. Even if you take the other elder scrolls games out of the equation, you have to look at all the passives as a hole for each armor.

Light armor for magicka and spells

Medium armor for stamina and abilities

Heavy armor has 4 passives for health and survival, 1 for damage. There is no way that this is suppose to be a serious damage dealing set with only 1 damage augmenting passive.

Like I said before. If this was any other game, where heavy armor was locked to a class, I would agree with you. But because you can mix and match all you want, there is no way that heavy armor should have stamina or magicka regen or reductions on it. If you want that regeneration or reduction, you should be swapping out a piece for light or medium.

So you feel that someone who wears heavy armor should only be a tank, and should not be able to dps. Correct?

Wearing 2 pieces of medium or light will not let you sustain any respectable amount of damage output.

Someone who wears heavy armor should be doing so to be more defensive, and therefore lose out a bit offensively. This means not sustaining damage as well as their lighter armored counterparts, but when using an offensive weapon shouldn't hit like a wet noodle.

Heavy armor's increase to melee damage exists right now to allow players who do want to use the armor type for the defense but not be totally gimped on damage, however this functions isn't preforming as well as is necessary which I can agree on.

A heavy armor user should be able to put on medium armor and have marginally but noticeably less damage output than one in mostly medium or light armor exactly because heavy armor is used to increase defenses.

To conclude, yes heavy armors damage capability should be increased slightly, but in the end the purpose of the armor type is to increase defenses which it also lacks in now.

That should be where most of the changes should be made, increasing defensive capability to make it worth it. Damage increases should be made to the armor tree as well, but with caution.

Lyall84 · June 2014

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

I didn't delete the code, the guy I quoted did. He fixed it afterword. And you are right it doesnt make since to try to make it like other elder scrolls games. This includes everything before skyrim as well, because X Y or Z that exists in ESO doesn't exist in any of those either.

Sorry about that then. Didn't notice it was him not you. Even if you take the other elder scrolls games out of the equation, you have to look at all the passives as a hole for each armor.

Light armor for magicka and spells

Medium armor for stamina and abilities

Heavy armor has 4 passives for health and survival, 1 for damage. There is no way that this is suppose to be a serious damage dealing set with only 1 damage augmenting passive.

Like I said before. If this was any other game, where heavy armor was locked to a class, I would agree with you. But because you can mix and match all you want, there is no way that heavy armor should have stamina or magicka regen or reductions on it. If you want that regeneration or reduction, you should be swapping out a piece for light or medium.

So you feel that someone who wears heavy armor should only be a tank, and should not be able to dps. Correct?

Wearing 2 pieces of medium or light will not let you sustain any respectable amount of damage output.

Someone who wears heavy armor should be doing so to be more defensive, and therefore lose out a bit offensively. This means not sustaining damage as well as their lighter armored counterparts, but when using an offensive weapon shouldn't hit like a wet noodle.

Heavy armor's increase to melee damage exists right now to allow players who do want to use the armor type for the defense but not be totally gimped on damage, however this functions isn't preforming as well as is necessary which I can agree on.

A heavy armor user should be able to put on medium armor and have marginally but noticeably less damage output than one in mostly medium or light armor exactly because heavy armor is used to increase defenses.

To conclude, yes heavy armors damage capability should be increased slightly, but in the end the purpose of the armor type is to increase defenses which it also lacks in now.

That should be where most of the changes should be made, increasing defensive capability to make it worth it. Damage increases should be made to the armor tree as well, but with caution.

Thank the Nine, someone else understands what I have been trying to say.

Meet me at the Honeybrew Meadery in Riften, let me buy you a drink.

Shaun98ca2 · June 2014

Lyall84 wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

So I see a LOT of people suggesting move Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break to a "separate" resource.

This a TERRIBLE idea.

Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break would more commonly be used by a Stamina build than a Magicka build.

Having it on a separate resource does absolutely nothing for balance as now the almight Maigcka build get free Stamina points to dump towards even more DPS PLUS the increased survivability of the new resource.

This in the long run screws a Stamina build as they NEED that increased Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break cause they ARE in the mix of combat needing to use it.

You can go forth and greatly increase the damage a Stamina build does but this again just favors Magicka builds as its just another resource dump for them on top of their already good DPS.

how does stamina get increased CC break over magicka. It uses 30% of your max stamina, regardless of your build type. So if you are a magicka build with 1200 stamina, CC break uses roughly 400 stamina. If you are a stamina build with 1800 stamina, CC break uses roughly 600 stamina.

That is why they make the argument to at least separate the CC break cost to something else. Because for stamina users it uses WAY too much of their primary damage resource while magicka users could not care less how much it costs.

CC Break along with Block Dodge Stun are percentages off of BASE Stamina that is BEFORE points in Stamina and enchantments towards Stamina.

Shaun98ca2 · June 2014

So to contribute to the current conversation....

MAYBE Juggernaut could be BETTER and slight different...Maybe renamed too.

Allow it to increase your Light/Heavy Attack still but the damage increases as your health decreases. Maybe say +50% attack at -50% health.

Sakiri · June 2014

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

So I see a LOT of people suggesting move Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break to a "separate" resource.

This a TERRIBLE idea.

Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break would more commonly be used by a Stamina build than a Magicka build.

Having it on a separate resource does absolutely nothing for balance as now the almight Maigcka build get free Stamina points to dump towards even more DPS PLUS the increased survivability of the new resource.

This in the long run screws a Stamina build as they NEED that increased Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break cause they ARE in the mix of combat needing to use it.

You can go forth and greatly increase the damage a Stamina build does but this again just favors Magicka builds as its just another resource dump for them on top of their already good DPS.

how does stamina get increased CC break over magicka. It uses 30% of your max stamina, regardless of your build type. So if you are a magicka build with 1200 stamina, CC break uses roughly 400 stamina. If you are a stamina build with 1800 stamina, CC break uses roughly 600 stamina.

That is why they make the argument to at least separate the CC break cost to something else. Because for stamina users it uses WAY too much of their primary damage resource while magicka users could not care less how much it costs.

CC Break along with Block Dodge Stun are percentages off of BASE Stamina that is BEFORE points in Stamina and enchantments towards Stamina.

Tell that to my stam build dk thats out of stamina if I have to break cc more than once a fight.

Block/dodge are base.
CC break is max.

The intent was to not give anyone an advantage in breaking cc, but give points in stamina let you block/dodge more.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

Ok, then just make a small addition to resolve, reduce damage taken by 9% per piece of piece of heavy armor worn at 3 skill points, and we have a deal. Then the tiny and meaningless health regen would appear to have value as well.

Shaun98ca2 · June 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

So I see a LOT of people suggesting move Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break to a "separate" resource.

This a TERRIBLE idea.

Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break would more commonly be used by a Stamina build than a Magicka build.

Having it on a separate resource does absolutely nothing for balance as now the almight Maigcka build get free Stamina points to dump towards even more DPS PLUS the increased survivability of the new resource.

This in the long run screws a Stamina build as they NEED that increased Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break cause they ARE in the mix of combat needing to use it.

You can go forth and greatly increase the damage a Stamina build does but this again just favors Magicka builds as its just another resource dump for them on top of their already good DPS.

how does stamina get increased CC break over magicka. It uses 30% of your max stamina, regardless of your build type. So if you are a magicka build with 1200 stamina, CC break uses roughly 400 stamina. If you are a stamina build with 1800 stamina, CC break uses roughly 600 stamina.

That is why they make the argument to at least separate the CC break cost to something else. Because for stamina users it uses WAY too much of their primary damage resource while magicka users could not care less how much it costs.

CC Break along with Block Dodge Stun are percentages off of BASE Stamina that is BEFORE points in Stamina and enchantments towards Stamina.

Tell that to my stam build dk thats out of stamina if I have to break cc more than once a fight.

Block/dodge are base.
CC break is max.

The intent was to not give anyone an advantage in breaking cc, but give points in stamina let you block/dodge more.

Then I guess learn NOT to break CC????? Block?

Whenever my Stamina build breaks CC its usually no sweat like hardly dents my pool at all.

Ethoir · June 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Also, am I the only one who would prefer to still have the range on Snipe? The cast time doesn't seem to me to be the issue.

No you're not. I'd prefer to keep the 40 meter max range. Makes plinking those folks up on ramparts during a siege (without getting in their range) a little less risky for stealth types. Of course siege weapons should still be your main worry next to enemy players already on the ground bringing the fight away from the ramparts.

Lyall84 · June 2014

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

So I see a LOT of people suggesting move Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break to a "separate" resource.

This a TERRIBLE idea.

Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break would more commonly be used by a Stamina build than a Magicka build.

Having it on a separate resource does absolutely nothing for balance as now the almight Maigcka build get free Stamina points to dump towards even more DPS PLUS the increased survivability of the new resource.

This in the long run screws a Stamina build as they NEED that increased Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break cause they ARE in the mix of combat needing to use it.

You can go forth and greatly increase the damage a Stamina build does but this again just favors Magicka builds as its just another resource dump for them on top of their already good DPS.

how does stamina get increased CC break over magicka. It uses 30% of your max stamina, regardless of your build type. So if you are a magicka build with 1200 stamina, CC break uses roughly 400 stamina. If you are a stamina build with 1800 stamina, CC break uses roughly 600 stamina.

That is why they make the argument to at least separate the CC break cost to something else. Because for stamina users it uses WAY too much of their primary damage resource while magicka users could not care less how much it costs.

CC Break along with Block Dodge Stun are percentages off of BASE Stamina that is BEFORE points in Stamina and enchantments towards Stamina.

Incorrect, CC break is based off 30% max stamina period. Look at my example, dont believe me, respec from your cloth build to a medium armor with stamina enchants, go get CC'd and use break, and watch 30% of your stamina disappear in one use. Block, dodge and stun may be based off stam before points and enchantment, but CC break is not.

For the exact reason that it would be too big of an advantage in PvP if stamina users could use CC break 5 times in a row vs magicka users

For blocking dodging, running etc, I personally thing stamina needs to stay that resource, but for the CC break, I am in agreement that it needs to be altered to be equally damaging to magicka users, or not as punshing to stamina users. Hate to bring up other games, but SWTOR had a resolve bar for CC break and immunity. I think that bar lasted a little long in that game, but I think the idea was correct.

Lyall84 · June 2014

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

So to contribute to the current conversation....

MAYBE Juggernaut could be BETTER and slight different...Maybe renamed too.

Allow it to increase your Light/Heavy Attack still but the damage increases as your health decreases. Maybe say +50% attack at -50% health.

I actually like that idea. Make it scale so you do increased damage based on lost health instead of just a jump/step at 50%.

Thejollygreenone · June 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Ok, then just make a small addition to resolve, reduce damage taken by 9% per piece of piece of heavy armor worn at 3 skill points, and we have a deal. Then the tiny and meaningless health regen would appear to have value as well.

3% would be more balanced. This could take the place of armor/resistance passive.

The health regen passive should be changed to something more along the lines of active regen, something that doesn't get affected by the measly hp regen soft cap. Or merely increase the soft cap by quite a bit.

Max hp has the highest soft cap anyway, why not hp regen aswell? As long as the ability to increase hp regen isn't available to those not giving up some offensive capability to obtain such high health regen as one in mostly heavy armor.

But I digress, 9% damage mitigation per piece would be out of control, so I wouldn't expect such a drastic number if this sort of idea went through at all. 63% at 7 pieces? 45% at 5? On top of current armor and resistances?

Try not to exaggerate so and your ideas could have some real value. Contrary to what many think, the devs are indeed watching, however frequent or infrequent that is.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

Not an exaggeration. "almost impossible to kill" should be the aim of heavy armor as I heard, and that would certainly accomplish that. A silly armor boost wont cut it, because the armor overcharges already, with green armor. The current armor and resistances are a joke.

Or we can just go forth with a offensive boost rather than full on defensive boost. If you think a tiny defensive boost would be suitable when all other armor types get all kinds of FAR more appealing trait bonuses you need to think again.

Lyall84 · June 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Ok, then just make a small addition to resolve, reduce damage taken by 9% per piece of piece of heavy armor worn at 3 skill points, and we have a deal. Then the tiny and meaningless health regen would appear to have value as well.

I wholeheartedly agree. That is the type of correction that needs to be made to fix heavy. Maybe not 9%, maybe only 4-5% so it is 28%-35% at full 7/7 pieces. 9% would be a 63% damage reduction which would be overkill.

If light/medium gets 21%(only 14% for medium with the proposed changes) reduction in magicka/stamina costs, heavy armor (just based on how 1 point magicka/stamina adds 10 and 1 point health adds 15, same with enchants) should get about a 30% damage reduction.

Thejollygreenone · June 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Not an exaggeration. "almost impossible to kill" was the aim as I heard, and that would certainly accomplish that.

That was also an exaggeration, or just wrong (imo). Bringing up partially irrelevant comments from other people doesn't quite serve this conversation between you and I.

Their defenses and health should be significantly harder to whittle down than one in light armor or medium armor, at best.

But again, they shouldn't hit like a wet noodle, either, if they choose to use an offensive weapon like a 2h or dual wield or even a bow or staff, so I hope you're not misunderstanding my intentions.