Improvements for Stamina-Based Skills and Passives

SootyTX

Laura wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Many of you have asked what we’re doing to make skills, passives, and builds based on stamina more viable and as attractive as the magicka-based options. Below is a first look at some of the improvements we’re making to stamina-based skills and passives. As with all our balance efforts, this is an ongoing process and there will be more to come. We look forward to hearing your thoughts!

Bow: Poison Arrow

• Poison Arrow’s damage-over-time has been increased by 50% overall.

Bow: Snipe

• Snipe’s cast time will be reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.
• Snipe’s maximum range will be reduced from 40 meters to 35 meters.
• Snipe’s minimum range will be reduced from 20 meters to 10 meters.

Dual Wield: Flurry

• The damage for Flurry’s final hit will be increased by 10%.

Medium Armor

• With the Wind Walker passive, medium armor will reduce stamina costs by 2% per piece equipped.

Two Handed: Cleave

• Cleave’s damage-over-time will be increased by 25% overall, and scale as the ability ranks up.

Two Handed: Uppercut

• Uppercut’s damage will be increased by 10%.
• Uppercut’s global cooldown after use will be reduced by 50%.

Nothing about fixing 1h & s? Nothing about nerfing stick and skirts? No fixes to why heavy armor is absolutely useless? You guys are useless, zenimax

go home you're drunk.

I think buffing instead of nerfing is the way to go

one hand and shield is used for tanking in trials really dont see the problem there.


such a silly child

You do seem to have a remarkable disregard for other people's viewpoints, both on this post and in others I've seen from you that pretty much go along the lines of "L2P my way or go away noob"

Some of us use 1H+S as a dps, or would like to, and see no reason to pigeon-hole the line into a tanks only niche.

Dual wield sucks visually and it annoys me as an expert in the field of ancient combat. 2 Handed should be JUST as capable of tanking as 1H+S (if any developer actually did any actual research instead of following the tired and incorrect practices of their forebears). Similarly, 1H+S is very capable of being a highly aggressive and offensive arms choice.

Bromburak

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

The damage increase and armor pen increase of heavy armor isn't overkill, because I also added damage increase to light armor and medium armor which balances it out, not makes heavy better for damage. The armor pen suggested isn't even higher than light armors current spell pen.

All armor types need skill use resource reduction.

This would presuppose a reason to use stamina based skills ...

Currently, the reality in TESO is that you will always find a magicka based skill doing a better job than a stamina skill and this results into light armor builds because its more efficient in general.

As long armor and stamina skills are not strong enough it makes no sense to play stamina builds with medium or heavy armor.

So when you start reducing stamina cost when wearing specific armor types it makes no sense because many magicka skills are still better than any stamina based skill ...

ZoM_Head

Bromburak wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

The damage increase and armor pen increase of heavy armor isn't overkill, because I also added damage increase to light armor and medium armor which balances it out, not makes heavy better for damage. The armor pen suggested isn't even higher than light armors current spell pen.

All armor types need skill use resource reduction.

This would presuppose a reason to use stamina based skills ...

Currently, the reality in TESO is that you will always find a magicka based skill doing a better job than a stamina skill and this results into light armor builds because its more efficient in general.

As long armor and stamina skills are not strong enough it makes no sense to play stamina builds with medium or heavy armor.

So when you start reducing stamina cost when wearing specific armor types it makes no sense because many magicka skills are still better than any stamina based skill ...

Long story short, yes indeed.

I never liked having a magicka/mage build, but ESO is kind of telling us to go that way.

GaldorP

Looking forward to testing these changes in the game

Is there any chance we'll have any werewolf changes soon?

Eivar

nudel wrote: »

Eivar wrote: »

*snip*
This I find to be a valid point as well, templars and nbs get really shafted on cc, nb gets a minimal snare/speed increase, and a very short term fear, I don't even know if temps even get any cc at all.

@Eivar I'm sorry. I agreed with you all the way until you said this. Piercing Javelin is a hefty knockback which can be morphed into a knockdown. Sun Fire is a sizeable snare. Eclipse is the 2nd best cc for PVE casters imo behind Negate Magic naturally. Nova stuns all enemies in an area and the Solar Disturbance morph snares them as well. Most of the Aedric Spear line includes some form of disorient, interrupt, or knockback.

If there's one thing temps are not short on it's cc.

Seeing as I said "I don't know if temps..." You don't disagree with me at all, you just knew where I didn't. Reading comprehension ftw.

Talketzanto

Its obvious that they are turning "snipe" into a real damage dealer option. You will be able to spam snipe every 2 seconds and from a closer distance. Sounds awesome to me really.

Combine that with the less stamina cost and full crit build and you might be dangerous

Docmandu

IMHO part of the problem at least for PvP is that the resource pool (stamina) is used for skills, sprinting to keep up with your target and CC breaking. While with a magicka build, you don't have the issue with sprinting and CC break eating away your resource pool.

frankuguzzb16_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Many of you have asked what we’re doing to make skills, passives, and builds based on stamina more viable and as attractive as the magicka-based options. Below is a first look at some of the improvements we’re making to stamina-based skills and passives. As with all our balance efforts, this is an ongoing process and there will be more to come. We look forward to hearing your thoughts!

I can give you this simple advice: make the Heavvy Armour useful with OneHand+Shield by changing some passives! At this point in PvP the shield absorbs too many dmgs compared to the difference in pure armor value between med/light/heavvy...i can say that the best TANK wears LIGHT armor and uses a shield, and this is really really weird imho.
Blocking with a shield has to be less powerful alone, and greatly improved by heavvy armour passives and/or health points, making it no more ''a MUST'' for magika users, but for heavvy armor tanks!!!

This is only a suggestion, but i think it adds both variety and realism...

PS: sry for my english!

Sakiri

Lyall84 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

cgerhardtutoringub17_ESO wrote: »

My two cents (long post):

From my experience with the game (i have been playing since Beta) and its skill lines, I believe the design behind weapon skill lines and "stamina builds" were meant to be based upon using light/heavy attacks primarily with skills to be used as fillers/buffs. Whereas, Magicka builds were based upon using skills with light/heavy attack fillers.

This can be seen in the skills in the DW, 2H, and bow skill lines. Many of the skills have a dot attached and/or provide some sort of benefit for their usage, i.e. poison status effect, snare, root, bleed, stun, haste, range extender.

However, these are my thoughts on what was intended and not what currently exists. It is currently not possible to effectively use weapon skills to buff yourself/debuff your enemy and use light/heavy attacks efficiently as ones primary source of damage. Weapon attacks DO NOT do enough damage per attack.

IMHO weapon attacks need to be scaled up. Fix this first, then see if stamina costs need tinkering and which armor trait truly needs it. For instance, if weapon attacks did more damage and you could DPS competitively using the above mentioned model then medium armor would not need a stamina cost reduction.

On the topic of Heavy Armor Tanking (which i have not had the experience of using), I believe it will need some sort of Stamina management option. Best option would probably be to add Stamina cost reduction to 1H/S or a Stamina Recharge on successful Shield Block (similar to restoration staffs 10% magicka gain from heavy attack).

Lastly, I believe any class skill that utilizes weapon critical should also use weapon power to calculate its damage and not spell power. This just seems really odd to me and does not allow for great synergy between a weapon centric build and class skills. Examples of this are veiled strike, assassin's blade, biting jabs, etc.

Add a cost reduction to blocking, base damage increase or whatever to heavy. But adding any type of stamina or magicka reduction or regeneration takes away from the other armors.

Heavy armor is suppose to be the Health armor, not the stamina armor, not the magicka armor.

Just for a pov change, remember its a TES game.

Fully enchanted heavy was one of the most popular options, even with mages.

Yes, but in TES games, heavy armor regardless of enchants, cost more magicka than using light or cloth.

Yes, but Im also not calling for regen. Id prefer being able to kill it before Im out, not waiting for it to come back.

That is why they have medium and light armor and why you can mix and match. Heavy armor for defense, medium or light for your build type of choice. If you go full heavy, you should be extremely hard to kill and whittle down your opponents.

Now, as I have said before, I am all for buffing juggernaut for more front end damage and even expanding it to include healing and casting for "battle-mage" and "war-priest" types. But the con to heavy armor needs to remain that you cannot cast or use abilities as much as light or medium armor in exchange for your added protection.

And missed where I said mix and match doesnt work because for either to be worth a damn you need more than 2 pieces.

2 light or 2 medium in a set of heavy gives reduction/crit equivalent to me using a pointy stick vs a blunt stick to beat the crap out of you.

As in, none.

Sakiri

Bromburak wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

The damage increase and armor pen increase of heavy armor isn't overkill, because I also added damage increase to light armor and medium armor which balances it out, not makes heavy better for damage. The armor pen suggested isn't even higher than light armors current spell pen.

All armor types need skill use resource reduction.

This would presuppose a reason to use stamina based skills ...

Currently, the reality in TESO is that you will always find a magicka based skill doing a better job than a stamina skill and this results into light armor builds because its more efficient in general.

As long armor and stamina skills are not strong enough it makes no sense to play stamina builds with medium or heavy armor.

So when you start reducing stamina cost when wearing specific armor types it makes no sense because many magicka skills are still better than any stamina based skill ...

Which isnt helped by abilities with low upfront damage + dot that many mobs are immune to.

Gizzarduk

While Stamina regen won't hurt surely base damage increase to Melee weapons would help everything across the board? I mean currently in VR zones I can take two or three mobs if I get the drop on them, and I won't be completely out of stam at the end of that fight (although close) but DPS is still so much lower than casters. Sure that is a result of weapons being too underpowered, not just stamina regen.

Sakiri

Gizzarduk wrote: »

While Stamina regen won't hurt surely base damage increase to Melee weapons would help everything across the board? I mean currently in VR zones I can take two or three mobs if I get the drop on them, and I won't be completely out of stam at the end of that fight (although close) but DPS is still so much lower than casters. Sure that is a result of weapons being too underpowered, not just stamina regen.

Part of the problem is weapons all do the same damage. Including staves.

Spells can be spammed. Weapon specials cant. Staff attacks are what you do when out of or conserving magicka.

Based on ability toolyips and effects, it looks like theyre not meant to be used as spells are. ie: cleave once, then let the dot tick, blood craze each mob once, let the dot tick.

Problem with this is that weapon attacks hit like wet noodles. If light/heavy hits are meant to be the bread and butter of stam builds then two things need to happen:

They need to flat out state this
Weapons need to hit harder

Fin.

Blinks

Flurry needs more than a 10% Damage increase, more like 15% to 20%. The animation takes FOREVER! This is one of the main DW abilities most line-ups would probably take. Personally the increase of 15%-20% Damage boost would compensate for its long animation time hense then would be worth taking on your hotbar.

Cogo

My feedback to Zenimax about how to balance gear/stats resources, which was their question, has changed to a much more humble feedback.

This thread made me realize how many different types of facts about skills, effects, resists and mechanics I did not know, even if I do know a lot about my own build and experience in game.


My feedback is to balance the overall gear/stats resources to not create a best build, which seams to be a DK in light armor, using 1H and shield to tank (Shield to tank should be powerful to use as block though, and the tradeoff should be to do much less damage then other weapons), or a staff to do most damage.

Keep balancing the game as you have done, by "tweaking" skills, and don't make the mistake by buffing everything to much. I like to play ESO, not wow.


Stat resources SHOULD get depleted by constant use of powerful abilities that uses them. A good example is CC break. It should take a lot of your stamina, because it is a very powerful ability.


All kinds of builds should be different in "power", but not so different like the overpowered Vampire mistake, which was fixed.


As long as personal skill is involved in how well you perform, and there are lots of differences in choices of builds, and uses of abilities. It is very alright if one build may be slightly better in stats then another.

If anything, ESO instanced group boss encounters, including Vet dungeons, have proven that one skill may be useless against one encounter, but very effective against another. Teamwork is without doubt the best "skill" in any dungeon. This is also a major factor what makes ESO so interesting.


Please do not loose track that ESO, is the world of Tamriel, where all kinds of "types" of classes (builds) are found. Being the "best" build is not always what all players aim for. As long, of course, a skill is broken or not working as intended, like 1H and shield was. This skill is fixed though

I know this is a very complex feedback, but its the best I can do, with the facts I have.

Cogo

SootyTX wrote: »

Some of us use 1H+S as a dps, or would like to, and see no reason to pigeon-hole the line into a tanks only niche.

Dual wield sucks visually and it annoys me as an expert in the field of ancient combat. 2 Handed should be JUST as capable of tanking as 1H+S (if any developer actually did any actual research instead of following the tired and incorrect practices of their forebears). Similarly, 1H+S is very capable of being a highly aggressive and offensive arms choice.

1H and shield
I am sorry, but I do not agree with you on 1H and shield. All weapon abilities should have their strengths and weaknesses. Also how you use them should still have a base in the player, not only the skill.

1H and shield have the most powerful block ability to protect you. The trade off must be less damage. Otherwise you make this weapon ability overpowered, as already proven it was.

Of course you can use 1H and shield for any purpose you want. If its to do damage, then you mix being able to protect yourself and live longer, and combine other attack abilities to make 1H and shield a choice for doing damage.


Other weapons to be a capable tank
You can use any weapon you want to be a "capable" tank. They have block, but of course not as powerful as a shield. They shouldn't be.

Tanking in ESO does not mean only the ability to stand still and block an attack.

Stun and interupt is something all players can do. But this depends on your player skill to time it. Stun and interupt is a VERY big part of any tanking.

Mix skills, evade, move, kite, or whatever someone feels is right for them, or even brilliantly pulls off. There are a wide area of skills that protects you. Which, how and when to use what, isn't that the core of ESO? Build what you want?

My answer here is based on coming, future balanced and fixes that abilities works as intended. That a skill is needed of balancing I accept fully as needed to be used in YOUR build of tanking.

You have 2 skill bars available to you. Basing the answer that switch will work when used, and not lagged, this is more then needed to make lots of different builds and types of tanks.

This is a feature in ESO isn't it? All weapon skills must have their unique pros and cons. Add to that, you may be a far better tank then me, with the same setup, because you might simply be a better player ;-).

Thejollygreenone

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

cgerhardtutoringub17_ESO wrote: »

My two cents (long post):

From my experience with the game (i have been playing since Beta) and its skill lines, I believe the design behind weapon skill lines and "stamina builds" were meant to be based upon using light/heavy attacks primarily with skills to be used as fillers/buffs. Whereas, Magicka builds were based upon using skills with light/heavy attack fillers.

This can be seen in the skills in the DW, 2H, and bow skill lines. Many of the skills have a dot attached and/or provide some sort of benefit for their usage, i.e. poison status effect, snare, root, bleed, stun, haste, range extender.

However, these are my thoughts on what was intended and not what currently exists. It is currently not possible to effectively use weapon skills to buff yourself/debuff your enemy and use light/heavy attacks efficiently as ones primary source of damage. Weapon attacks DO NOT do enough damage per attack.

IMHO weapon attacks need to be scaled up. Fix this first, then see if stamina costs need tinkering and which armor trait truly needs it. For instance, if weapon attacks did more damage and you could DPS competitively using the above mentioned model then medium armor would not need a stamina cost reduction.

On the topic of Heavy Armor Tanking (which i have not had the experience of using), I believe it will need some sort of Stamina management option. Best option would probably be to add Stamina cost reduction to 1H/S or a Stamina Recharge on successful Shield Block (similar to restoration staffs 10% magicka gain from heavy attack).

Lastly, I believe any class skill that utilizes weapon critical should also use weapon power to calculate its damage and not spell power. This just seems really odd to me and does not allow for great synergy between a weapon centric build and class skills. Examples of this are veiled strike, assassin's blade, biting jabs, etc.

Add a cost reduction to blocking, base damage increase or whatever to heavy. But adding any type of stamina or magicka reduction or regeneration takes away from the other armors.

Heavy armor is suppose to be the Health armor, not the stamina armor, not the magicka armor.

Just for a pov change, remember its a TES game.

Fully enchanted heavy was one of the most popular options, even with mages.

Yes, but in TES games, heavy armor regardless of enchants, cost more magicka than using light or cloth.

Yes, but Im also not calling for regen. Id prefer being able to kill it before Im out, not waiting for it to come back.

That is why they have medium and light armor and why you can mix and match. Heavy armor for defense, medium or light for your build type of choice. If you go full heavy, you should be extremely hard to kill and whittle down your opponents.

Now, as I have said before, I am all for buffing juggernaut for more front end damage and even expanding it to include healing and casting for "battle-mage" and "war-priest" types. But the con to heavy armor needs to remain that you cannot cast or use abilities as much as light or medium armor in exchange for your added protection.

And missed where I said mix and match doesnt work because for either to be worth a damn you need more than 2 pieces.

2 light or 2 medium in a set of heavy gives reduction/crit equivalent to me using a pointy stick vs a blunt stick to beat the crap out of you.

As in, none.

It doesn't mix to give the desired results RIGHT NOW. But it's intended to. I beg you to stop trying to change how the game has set itself up, because trying to change an mmo like such without preserving the general overlay and intent of the original game get's you an end product like present day WoW.

Sorry to drop that reference here, I know it's a touchy subject for most, including myself, but I've seen too many games go down that path, and I'd hate to see ESO mutated and morphed and disfigured to the point where I don't recognize it. If an mmo caters to any old forum poster that puts forth an idea that gets the crowd riled (this includes myself) then such structure-altering changes are surely on the way.

Bottom line, the combo of 5 heavy and 2 light/medium is INTENDED to output moderately decent damage because of the 2 light/medium portion along with a minor amount of damage synergy from heavy armor. If it doesn't right now that doesn't mean they should throw a bunch of damage buffs at heavy armor because that changes heavy armors role, which is defensiveness (the hp role). It would be the fault of light/medium because that's their role(the magicka or stamina max dps role).

Some changes could be made to the Juggernaut passive to improve it marginally, but nothing too much. The bonuses of medium/light armor should just be adequately accessible to one who uses five pieces of heavy armor, and if it isn't right now then I'd think it should change to be. Not the other way around where heavy armor assimilates to fit in as a dps armor class, that breaks the triad of armor classes TES has always run with.

Maybe this bit is just my opinion, but I think the structure that this game has set for itself has a lot of potential and would like to see it altered as little as possible while this process of fixing and balancing plays out.

Schnapss

Fix Flurry, It is bugged like hell, rapid strikes make your attack speed slower and this skill completely unusable. 4% in blinding fury is so low that does nor make any sense in this ability. And overall usage time is about 2.5 sec instead of 1.3.
You should fix major bugs first and only then try to change stamina skills. Half of NB melee abilities are bugged, and you are talking about stamina balance, wtf?

Sakiri

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

cgerhardtutoringub17_ESO wrote: »

My two cents (long post):

From my experience with the game (i have been playing since Beta) and its skill lines, I believe the design behind weapon skill lines and "stamina builds" were meant to be based upon using light/heavy attacks primarily with skills to be used as fillers/buffs. Whereas, Magicka builds were based upon using skills with light/heavy attack fillers.

This can be seen in the skills in the DW, 2H, and bow skill lines. Many of the skills have a dot attached and/or provide some sort of benefit for their usage, i.e. poison status effect, snare, root, bleed, stun, haste, range extender.

However, these are my thoughts on what was intended and not what currently exists. It is currently not possible to effectively use weapon skills to buff yourself/debuff your enemy and use light/heavy attacks efficiently as ones primary source of damage. Weapon attacks DO NOT do enough damage per attack.

IMHO weapon attacks need to be scaled up. Fix this first, then see if stamina costs need tinkering and which armor trait truly needs it. For instance, if weapon attacks did more damage and you could DPS competitively using the above mentioned model then medium armor would not need a stamina cost reduction.

On the topic of Heavy Armor Tanking (which i have not had the experience of using), I believe it will need some sort of Stamina management option. Best option would probably be to add Stamina cost reduction to 1H/S or a Stamina Recharge on successful Shield Block (similar to restoration staffs 10% magicka gain from heavy attack).

Lastly, I believe any class skill that utilizes weapon critical should also use weapon power to calculate its damage and not spell power. This just seems really odd to me and does not allow for great synergy between a weapon centric build and class skills. Examples of this are veiled strike, assassin's blade, biting jabs, etc.

Add a cost reduction to blocking, base damage increase or whatever to heavy. But adding any type of stamina or magicka reduction or regeneration takes away from the other armors.

Heavy armor is suppose to be the Health armor, not the stamina armor, not the magicka armor.

Just for a pov change, remember its a TES game.

Fully enchanted heavy was one of the most popular options, even with mages.

Yes, but in TES games, heavy armor regardless of enchants, cost more magicka than using light or cloth.

Yes, but Im also not calling for regen. Id prefer being able to kill it before Im out, not waiting for it to come back.

That is why they have medium and light armor and why you can mix and match. Heavy armor for defense, medium or light for your build type of choice. If you go full heavy, you should be extremely hard to kill and whittle down your opponents.

Now, as I have said before, I am all for buffing juggernaut for more front end damage and even expanding it to include healing and casting for "battle-mage" and "war-priest" types. But the con to heavy armor needs to remain that you cannot cast or use abilities as much as light or medium armor in exchange for your added protection.

And missed where I said mix and match doesnt work because for either to be worth a damn you need more than 2 pieces.

2 light or 2 medium in a set of heavy gives reduction/crit equivalent to me using a pointy stick vs a blunt stick to beat the crap out of you.

As in, none.

It doesn't mix to give the desired results RIGHT NOW. But it's intended to. I beg you to stop trying to change how the game has set itself up, because trying to change an mmo like such without preserving the general overlay and intent of the original game get's you an end product like present day WoW.

Sorry to drop that reference here, I know it's a touchy subject for most, including myself, but I've seen too many games go down that path, and I'd hate to see ESO mutated and morphed and disfigured to the point where I don't recognize it. If an mmo caters to any old forum poster that puts forth an idea that gets the crowd riled (this includes myself) then such structure-altering changes are surely on the way.

Bottom line, the combo of 5 heavy and 2 light/medium is INTENDED to output moderately decent damage because of the 2 light/medium portion along with a minor amount of damage synergy from heavy armor. If it doesn't right now that doesn't mean they should throw a bunch of damage buffs at heavy armor because that changes heavy armors role, which is defensiveness (the hp role). It would be the fault of light/medium because that's their role(the magicka or stamina max dps role).

Some changes could be made to the Juggernaut passive to improve it marginally, but nothing too much. The bonuses of medium/light armor should just be adequately accessible to one who uses five pieces of heavy armor, and if it isn't right now then I'd think it should change to be. Not the other way around where heavy armor assimilates to fit in as a dps armor class, that breaks the triad of armor classes TES has always run with.

Maybe this bit is just my opinion, but I think the structure that this game has set for itself has a lot of potential and would like to see it altered as little as possible while this process of fixing and balancing plays out.

Again, you think I want reduction or regen on heavy.

I dont.

I dont give a flying flip if I burn out faster.

WHAT I CARE ABOUT IS NOT BEING ABLE TO KILL VR MOBS BEFOTE THEY KILL ME.

Your suggestion to put on 2 light or medium is asinine, because the major bonuses DO NOT WORK without a set of 5. There is NO noticeable difference. NONE. Period.

Im *fine* with the idea behind juggernaut. Problem is, it sucks.

Weapon damage cap is too low and 2h weapons particularly dont hit hard enough.

If *anything*, heavy should make weapon damage go up solely based on momentum and basic laws of physics.

Of course, youre not paying attention to a thing Im saying and insisting that armor be hard locked into role.

Did you know armor wasnt locked to class in wow until people complained about others taking *their* loot? Warriors and hunters often wore leather due to better itemization, and elemental/resto shaman and moonkin druids often wore cloth for the same reason well up until Cata, when they added bonuses for wearing a specific type because of the whining. They had to force people to do it, mostly to shut up clothies, and plate dps hate plate tanks for taking *their* gear.

Back up and learn to read my posts before jumping to conclusions.

trueche

Schnapss wrote: »

Fix Flurry, It is bugged like hell, rapid strikes make your attack speed slower and this skill completely unusable. 4% in blinding fury is so low that does nor make any sense in this ability. And overall usage time is about 2.5 sec instead of 1.3.
You should fix major bugs first and only then try to change stamina skills. Half of NB melee abilities are bugged, and you are talking about stamina balance, wtf?

Surely you've seen the massive NB fixes thread that Zos posted that is apparently supposed to go live tomorrow right? It's stickied right next to this thread.

Thejollygreenone

Sakiri wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

cgerhardtutoringub17_ESO wrote: »

My two cents (long post):

From my experience with the game (i have been playing since Beta) and its skill lines, I believe the design behind weapon skill lines and "stamina builds" were meant to be based upon using light/heavy attacks primarily with skills to be used as fillers/buffs. Whereas, Magicka builds were based upon using skills with light/heavy attack fillers.

This can be seen in the skills in the DW, 2H, and bow skill lines. Many of the skills have a dot attached and/or provide some sort of benefit for their usage, i.e. poison status effect, snare, root, bleed, stun, haste, range extender.

However, these are my thoughts on what was intended and not what currently exists. It is currently not possible to effectively use weapon skills to buff yourself/debuff your enemy and use light/heavy attacks efficiently as ones primary source of damage. Weapon attacks DO NOT do enough damage per attack.

IMHO weapon attacks need to be scaled up. Fix this first, then see if stamina costs need tinkering and which armor trait truly needs it. For instance, if weapon attacks did more damage and you could DPS competitively using the above mentioned model then medium armor would not need a stamina cost reduction.

On the topic of Heavy Armor Tanking (which i have not had the experience of using), I believe it will need some sort of Stamina management option. Best option would probably be to add Stamina cost reduction to 1H/S or a Stamina Recharge on successful Shield Block (similar to restoration staffs 10% magicka gain from heavy attack).

Lastly, I believe any class skill that utilizes weapon critical should also use weapon power to calculate its damage and not spell power. This just seems really odd to me and does not allow for great synergy between a weapon centric build and class skills. Examples of this are veiled strike, assassin's blade, biting jabs, etc.

Add a cost reduction to blocking, base damage increase or whatever to heavy. But adding any type of stamina or magicka reduction or regeneration takes away from the other armors.

Heavy armor is suppose to be the Health armor, not the stamina armor, not the magicka armor.

Just for a pov change, remember its a TES game.

Fully enchanted heavy was one of the most popular options, even with mages.

Yes, but in TES games, heavy armor regardless of enchants, cost more magicka than using light or cloth.

Yes, but Im also not calling for regen. Id prefer being able to kill it before Im out, not waiting for it to come back.

That is why they have medium and light armor and why you can mix and match. Heavy armor for defense, medium or light for your build type of choice. If you go full heavy, you should be extremely hard to kill and whittle down your opponents.

Now, as I have said before, I am all for buffing juggernaut for more front end damage and even expanding it to include healing and casting for "battle-mage" and "war-priest" types. But the con to heavy armor needs to remain that you cannot cast or use abilities as much as light or medium armor in exchange for your added protection.

And missed where I said mix and match doesnt work because for either to be worth a damn you need more than 2 pieces.

2 light or 2 medium in a set of heavy gives reduction/crit equivalent to me using a pointy stick vs a blunt stick to beat the crap out of you.

As in, none.

It doesn't mix to give the desired results RIGHT NOW. But it's intended to. I beg you to stop trying to change how the game has set itself up, because trying to change an mmo like such without preserving the general overlay and intent of the original game get's you an end product like present day WoW.

Sorry to drop that reference here, I know it's a touchy subject for most, including myself, but I've seen too many games go down that path, and I'd hate to see ESO mutated and morphed and disfigured to the point where I don't recognize it. If an mmo caters to any old forum poster that puts forth an idea that gets the crowd riled (this includes myself) then such structure-altering changes are surely on the way.

Bottom line, the combo of 5 heavy and 2 light/medium is INTENDED to output moderately decent damage because of the 2 light/medium portion along with a minor amount of damage synergy from heavy armor. If it doesn't right now that doesn't mean they should throw a bunch of damage buffs at heavy armor because that changes heavy armors role, which is defensiveness (the hp role). It would be the fault of light/medium because that's their role(the magicka or stamina max dps role).

Some changes could be made to the Juggernaut passive to improve it marginally, but nothing too much. The bonuses of medium/light armor should just be adequately accessible to one who uses five pieces of heavy armor, and if it isn't right now then I'd think it should change to be. Not the other way around where heavy armor assimilates to fit in as a dps armor class, that breaks the triad of armor classes TES has always run with.

Maybe this bit is just my opinion, but I think the structure that this game has set for itself has a lot of potential and would like to see it altered as little as possible while this process of fixing and balancing plays out.

Again, you think I want reduction or regen on heavy.

I dont.

I dont give a flying flip if I burn out faster.

WHAT I CARE ABOUT IS NOT BEING ABLE TO KILL VR MOBS BEFOTE THEY KILL ME.

Your suggestion to put on 2 light or medium is asinine, because the major bonuses DO NOT WORK without a set of 5. There is NO noticeable difference. NONE. Period.

Im *fine* with the idea behind juggernaut. Problem is, it sucks.

Weapon damage cap is too low and 2h weapons particularly dont hit hard enough.

If *anything*, heavy should make weapon damage go up solely based on momentum and basic laws of physics.

Of course, youre not paying attention to a thing Im saying and insisting that armor be hard locked into role.

Did you know armor wasnt locked to class in wow until people complained about others taking *their* loot? Warriors and hunters often wore leather due to better itemization, and elemental/resto shaman and moonkin druids often wore cloth for the same reason well up until Cata, when they added bonuses for wearing a specific type because of the whining. They had to force people to do it, mostly to shut up clothies, and plate dps hate plate tanks for taking *their* gear.

Back up and learn to read my posts before jumping to conclusions.

Calm down, first off. It seems you haven't listened to a thing I've said. Never once did I say those using heavy armor should be locked into tanking. They should however be locked into having more durability with a bit of lost damage because of that. That is the basis of my thoughts. You can dps in heavy armor as a melee and do ok dps ideally, but not as good as someone in medium or light armor.

Nor did I try to imply that you want stam/magicka regen in heavy armor trees. What I meant is that as dps you'll inevitably need it, and SHOULD be able compensate by having 2 pieces of medium/light armor on. Of course right now that isn't the case. I've been saying this all along, not sure if I wasn't getting that across well enough or if you just were too angry to pay close enough attention.

It's not an asinine idea nor is it my idea, it was the idea of those who created the game. If you plan on doing any damage in mostly heavy armor you need to mix in a piece or two of light or medium to give you SOME sort of passive regen or cost reduction. That seems to be quite intended, yet not worked out yet. Be patient and you will be able to do MODERATE dps in heavy armor if you so choose is my prediction and hope. Even now you should be wearing two pieces because I would argue the bonuses are noticeable. Theres one passive that requires 5 pieces to be active, the rest are all there, just in rightfully weaker forms. Maybe too weak for only two pieces equipped but that's what I'm trying to get fixed in this case.

As to your point about being able to survive longer, again, if you bothered to fully read my posts you'd understand that is what I wish would be focused on for the heavy armor tree in general. That is the basis of a more defensive playstyle. And your point with juggernaut, that's basically exactly what I said in less words. Juggernaut needs to be buffed a bit. It's a passive that makes sense to be in heavy armor, but not to be a staple of heavy armor, just something that exists to allow players like you to do some MODERATE damage while in heavy armor.

Never once did I try to imply or did I ever outright say armor should be locked into role. I've been trying to help heavy armors niche dps-users this whole time, just not to be doing the EXACT same amount of damage output as a medium/light armor user or else everyone would be picking the armor class that's supposed to be the most defensive and can now do the same dps.

There's a tradeoff that must occur. Light armor SHOULD be less survivable than heavy armor even though it isn't RIGHT NOW and I believe it will be in the future. Medium armor is less survivable stats-wise somewhat makes up for it in it's capability to dodge. In a perfect version of this game, heavy armor would be the most defensive armor class, while not completely gimping the damage of those who wish to use an offensive weapon combined with a defensive armor type.

And please, I brought up the WoW post in fear that more talk would arise about it. I was merely bringing up the point that when you start changing things too much, the grand scheme of things alters and bad things happen. No need to bring up your detailed class issues from that game because I'm not to sure such specific information is even relevant to this game.

Lastly, yes weapon cap damage is too low, and 2h weapons don't do enough damage. These aren't issues that are tied to heavy armor so why bring it up? They will catch up in time.

Lastly, you keep asserting this point about the realism of increased damage on heavy armor due to momentum. This is a fair point. Never once did I contest that. It's certainly part of why Juggernaut exists. The realism logic is there.

However, should a heavy armor wielder be able to do more or equal dps than someone of equal gear and skill level in medium or light armor which are supposed to offer less defenses in favor of more damage potential? That's where I would draw the line.

Of course light armor is the most defensive tree right now BUT THAT IS INCORRECT AND WILL BE FIXED. As will heavy armors lack of defenses. Just give it time, I guarantee you'll see these results.

Settle for juggernaut and general defenses getting buffed when the Heavy Armor changes get announced and be content. Hell you can even complain there if you'd like.

So please, keep telling me to read what you've been saying even though I've read every adversarial word. But if you'd actually bother to do what you're telling me to do you'd see we agree in most aspects of this discussion and are on generally the same side. I want Heavy Armor to preform well as a dps role in pvp, and as a niche offtanky type in trials, and of course be able to level up as easily as anyone else.

The ONLY thing I don't want is for a medium armor dps to pull 1200 dps in trials and a heavy armor dps to also pull 1200 dps in trials. Because then there'd be no point to picking medium armor since it has less defenses. Do you all see the balance issue I've been trying to outline this whole time?

SootyTX

Cogo wrote: »

SootyTX wrote: »

Some of us use 1H+S as a dps, or would like to, and see no reason to pigeon-hole the line into a tanks only niche.

Dual wield sucks visually and it annoys me as an expert in the field of ancient combat. 2 Handed should be JUST as capable of tanking as 1H+S (if any developer actually did any actual research instead of following the tired and incorrect practices of their forebears). Similarly, 1H+S is very capable of being a highly aggressive and offensive arms choice.

1H and shield
I am sorry, but I do not agree with you on 1H and shield. All weapon abilities should have their strengths and weaknesses. Also how you use them should still have a base in the player, not only the skill.

1H and shield have the most powerful block ability to protect you. The trade off must be less damage. Otherwise you make this weapon ability overpowered, as already proven it was.

Of course you can use 1H and shield for any purpose you want. If its to do damage, then you mix being able to protect yourself and live longer, and combine other attack abilities to make 1H and shield a choice for doing damage.


Other weapons to be a capable tank
You can use any weapon you want to be a "capable" tank. They have block, but of course not as powerful as a shield. They shouldn't be.

Tanking in ESO does not mean only the ability to stand still and block an attack.

Stun and interupt is something all players can do. But this depends on your player skill to time it. Stun and interupt is a VERY big part of any tanking.

Mix skills, evade, move, kite, or whatever someone feels is right for them, or even brilliantly pulls off. There are a wide area of skills that protects you. Which, how and when to use what, isn't that the core of ESO? Build what you want?

My answer here is based on coming, future balanced and fixes that abilities works as intended. That a skill is needed of balancing I accept fully as needed to be used in YOUR build of tanking.

You have 2 skill bars available to you. Basing the answer that switch will work when used, and not lagged, this is more then needed to make lots of different builds and types of tanks.

This is a feature in ESO isn't it? All weapon skills must have their unique pros and cons. Add to that, you may be a far better tank then me, with the same setup, because you might simply be a better player ;-).

@Cogo while I respect your view, and I've agreed with you on a lot of other threads, I respectfully disagree with you here. There is NO inherent reason to force 1H=S into a purely tanking, pitiful dps role. Increase the block capability of non-shield weapons, reduce the block of shield to be in line with them and bingo, all weapon sets can be used for tanking (which, as you quite rightly point out, is only a part of the tanking role anyway).

That's my entire point. The devs decided, probably based on lack of real knowledge and for ease, to yet again relegate 1H=S into a purely tanking role, and these changes are an indication that they intend to make that gap even broader.

That's not 'play as you want'. That's boring, standard, unimaginative. And unnecessary.

Don't get me wrong, I love tanking, it's what I do in all MMOs, always have since my EQ days. Where, typically for me I went the hard route and tanked as a paladin and not a warrior or monk.

But I hate the fact that to do anything else I'm forced to use weapon sets I cannot bear to use. And if push comes to shove, I won't. I'll simply move on from yet another game that appears to lack the imagination or courage to break the mold and actually fulfill its promises and potential.

Sakiri

Id prefer to not see someone told to come back when theyre ready to put on leather hotpants if they want to do melee dps, and thats precisely whats going to happen if theres a dps discrepancy AND they keep up the idea that their versions of raids must be a timed affair.

Id also like to be one shot if Im hit in a dress, as it should be.

Of course, thats not happening.

My main is a heavy armor dk. I prefer 2h, but tried dw for giggles. I shelved him at VR 2 because I cant kill anything in a reasonable time frame.

The heavy armor thing ties in perfectly with the stamina weapon issue because theres a load of people here that demand all dps roll with leather because all heavy should be used for is tanking, when one of the reasons heavy armor sucks is directly related to a major problem with stamina weapons... weapon damage blows.

Its obvious to me that youre not supposed to aoe with cleave spam. Hit it and hravy attacks + splash damage while the dot ticks. Problem is, weapons dont hit for crap, mobs are immune to bleed half the time...

I wont need regen or reduction if crap dies in a timely manner, and fixing weapon damage will solve that.

mikeymike2785b14_ESO

Here's an idea:

Reduce cost of CC breaking abilities if you have two or more stamina based weapon abilities on your bar.

Tbh my biggest beef with stamina is the need to use it for combat, and then not having it when you need to do a simple dodge roll or a stun breaker.

That's comin from someone already using 5 set PVP medium with a CC break cost reduction already (lookin forward to that medium armor boost)

Definitely a step in the right direction, but will it suffice?

Wifeaggro13

Cogo wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Medium Armor

• With the Wind Walker passive, medium armor will reduce stamina costs by 2% per piece equipped.

Pitiful. Your serioously addressing ranged melee first? Are you serious right now? Are you trolling us?

You must missed this part. That is a HUGE decrease in stamina cost for ALL abilities. Which included melee stamina based skills.

And calling our Zenimax communicator, who works a lot for us, for troll, does not gain you much respect here my friend. I'd advice you to choose your words when we get info.

Not calling jessica a troll just the Class balancing team. yes its a thankless job. but seriously this issue was brought to them roughly 6 weeks ago. And they reacted by nerfing Templars and DK's that actually hurt the melee and tank builds more then the Dress and stick spec.

And as a consumer that paid 80$ for a game then another 15$ ( this is not a sub rant i 150% support a subscription model for MMO's) that we would have a reasonable expectation the end game would be 75% functioning in end game going into four months after launch. As for respect i gather i have none anyway from the Pre launch forums i was an outspoken member advocating a better MMO experience as well as quite a few others. I fully support ZOS on the things they do right and i still Tank away at the fail F2P in 6 months threads.

But i cannot idly stand by and pat them on the back for Problems this community saw way before this game was launched, Many members called them on closed limited beta for friends and family only for end game activites. Nor should you for the money spent by consumers on this game. I still enjoy the game and i think the 1-50 content is subperb i never felt a flat get me to end game spot the whole process.But the MMO portion was largely missing it was primarily a single player game aside from a few activites

With all this said i still enjoy my reroll and i still have faith But i have watched to many of the community in my guilds Bail and unsub vowing never to return because of ZOS oversight/ mis managment .Primarily in the balance department and the Lack of actuall roles in end game. Everyone is DPS in light armor that taunts or heals. Sorry i come off as harsh and trash talking but its the facts. The comment "Serioulsy are you trolling us" was a reaction to them increasing DPS on the ranged spec melee by 30% with changes to snipe , and maybe a 10% increase to melee on a sustained fight. It made me think they still don't understand their own mechanics and rotations. Melee runs a huge risk for very little gain 10% is not gonna cut it,(FYI hundngs is still broken Crit still does not apply to weapon damage Jessica)

Thejollygreenone

Sakiri wrote: »

Id prefer to not see someone told to come back when theyre ready to put on leather hotpants if they want to do melee dps, and thats precisely whats going to happen if theres a dps discrepancy AND they keep up the idea that their versions of raids must be a timed affair.

Id also like to be one shot if Im hit in a dress, as it should be.

Of course, thats not happening.

My main is a heavy armor dk. I prefer 2h, but tried dw for giggles. I shelved him at VR 2 because I cant kill anything in a reasonable time frame.

The heavy armor thing ties in perfectly with the stamina weapon issue because theres a load of people here that demand all dps roll with leather because all heavy should be used for is tanking, when one of the reasons heavy armor sucks is directly related to a major problem with stamina weapons... weapon damage blows.

Its obvious to me that youre not supposed to aoe with cleave spam. Hit it and hravy attacks + splash damage while the dot ticks. Problem is, weapons dont hit for crap, mobs are immune to bleed half the time...

I wont need regen or reduction if crap dies in a timely manner, and fixing weapon damage will solve that.

If you're referring mainly to me as you seem to be in this thread I'll address this post as such:

Your problems aesthetically with medium armor are your own. If you want to look better in your eyes because of heavy armor there are costumes for that. So I'd prefer if we leave that primarily out of a discussion about the effectiveness of said armor.

Anyway, with that in mind, I'll begin. No ones telling you to come back when you're ready to put on leather hot pants if you want to do melee dps. What I and many others are suggesting is that anyone should be able to dps in heavy armor with the right build, and there should be no more than one talent in the heavy armor tree, which there is, that improves upon that capability.

The problem is right now that talent isn't sufficient. Part of the goal should be gently improving that passive until it put's heavy armor dps'ers where they should be. Just barely behind medium armor and light armor wearers since they choose to give up defenses in favor of additional offenses. I wear medium armor and am significantly less defensive because of it, but I'm okay with this because of the extra offensive capability I have.

I'd honestly play a heavy armor melee character if it was the best dps but that would be balanced. That's because they'd be the most defensive (when heavy armor is fixed) and the most offensive (if heavy armors damage capability is improved too much). Then there'd be no reason to play anything else. We can both deal in extremes, good sir.

When looking closely at the structure of the game with an unbiased eye, one can see that heavy armor clearly isn't supposed to be the tanking only armor tree, but it's supposed to be the armor tree that has increased defenses and therefore should fit with the tank archetype best. However...

One can not ignore that heavy armor is to intended increase defenses and therefore shouldn't in all fairness have the same offensive capability of someone in a less defensive armor style who does so to increase their offenses at a cost to their defensiveness.

Even if it disappoints a lot players that they cant do the exactly the same dps in heavy armor, they SHOULD be able achieve close to the same(definition of close will have to be up for debate). Be happy with that. As a stamina dps I can't do the same dps as a magicka user but with these changes I may be close. Or at least start to close the gap. And I'm happy with that. Your time will come, and is starting with these changes as well.

So with that, I hope we can start to put this heavy armor discussion off for another day when the devs actually address it, since both of our points have been made painfully apparent.

To move on. Your thoughts about 2h and weapon damage is quite valid. I'd agree with you totally here, and there's not much more to say on the subject that weapon damage overall needs a damage increase for most abilities, and even for light and heavy attacks.

However you bring up an interesting point that I believe others before have mentioned, being that stamina weapon users should have much higher light/heavy attack damage to compensate for not being able to spam their abilities like magicka users can, due to our reliance on the resource pool for sprinting dodging etc.

I think if changes to stamina weapon trees had more of a focus on increasing actual light/heavy damage as you suggest, then that could really throw these builds into a new direction, one that may offer a LOT of help in the raw output sense for stamina weapon based builds.

Wifeaggro13

Sakiri wrote: »

Id prefer to not see someone told to come back when theyre ready to put on leather hotpants if they want to do melee dps, and thats precisely whats going to happen if theres a dps discrepancy AND they keep up the idea that their versions of raids must be a timed affair.

Id also like to be one shot if Im hit in a dress, as it should be.

Of course, thats not happening.

My main is a heavy armor dk. I prefer 2h, but tried dw for giggles. I shelved him at VR 2 because I cant kill anything in a reasonable time frame.

The heavy armor thing ties in perfectly with the stamina weapon issue because theres a load of people here that demand all dps roll with leather because all heavy should be used for is tanking, when one of the reasons heavy armor sucks is directly related to a major problem with stamina weapons... weapon damage blows.

Its obvious to me that youre not supposed to aoe with cleave spam. Hit it and hravy attacks + splash damage while the dot ticks. Problem is, weapons dont hit for crap, mobs are immune to bleed half the time...

I wont need regen or reduction if crap dies in a timely manner, and fixing weapon damage will solve that.

Exactly, as to your point about heavy<light. there is literally no difference in damage mitigation between my DK VR 12 in heavy vs my Sorc VR5 in light. i Actually am more effective due to magica regen with my sorc. I can be at armor cap with a toggle and another click i am 1200 over cap and mitigating 50% damage at hard cap . My DK in heavy with spike armor being an orc actually has less armor. As for the melee problem i think they only way they are going to remotley fix this is by adding more bleeds and DOT's to the melee abilites. if they increase the hit there will be n uproar form the Cyrodil community and the burst damage Melee can attain. as for resources in Armor its clearly in favor of light armor. the heavy armor passives are worse then medium.

SootyTX

frankuguzzb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Many of you have asked what we’re doing to make skills, passives, and builds based on stamina more viable and as attractive as the magicka-based options. Below is a first look at some of the improvements we’re making to stamina-based skills and passives. As with all our balance efforts, this is an ongoing process and there will be more to come. We look forward to hearing your thoughts!

I can give you this simple advice: make the Heavvy Armour useful with OneHand+Shield by changing some passives! At this point in PvP the shield absorbs too many dmgs compared to the difference in pure armor value between med/light/heavvy...i can say that the best TANK wears LIGHT armor and uses a shield, and this is really really weird imho.
Blocking with a shield has to be less powerful alone, and greatly improved by heavvy armour passives and/or health points, making it no more ''a MUST'' for magika users, but for heavvy armor tanks!!!

This is only a suggestion, but i think it adds both variety and realism...

PS: sry for my english!

I like where you are going with this thought - certainly the lacking of heavy armour in actual protection terms over light (esp) and medium is a real issue that many have brought up. And the over-simplification of shield into a purely defensive (and therefore over-achieving in that regard) element has led to loss of variety and individuality as ESO becomes just another cookie-cutter MMO.

Wifeaggro13

SootyTX wrote: »

frankuguzzb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Many of you have asked what we’re doing to make skills, passives, and builds based on stamina more viable and as attractive as the magicka-based options. Below is a first look at some of the improvements we’re making to stamina-based skills and passives. As with all our balance efforts, this is an ongoing process and there will be more to come. We look forward to hearing your thoughts!

I can give you this simple advice: make the Heavvy Armour useful with OneHand+Shield by changing some passives! At this point in PvP the shield absorbs too many dmgs compared to the difference in pure armor value between med/light/heavvy...i can say that the best TANK wears LIGHT armor and uses a shield, and this is really really weird imho.
Blocking with a shield has to be less powerful alone, and greatly improved by heavvy armour passives and/or health points, making it no more ''a MUST'' for magika users, but for heavvy armor tanks!!!

This is only a suggestion, but i think it adds both variety and realism...

PS: sry for my english!

I like where you are going with this thought - certainly the lacking of heavy armour in actual protection terms over light (esp) and medium is a real issue that many have brought up. And the over-simplification of shield into a purely defensive (and therefore over-achieving in that regard) element has led to loss of variety and individuality as ESO becomes just another cookie-cutter MMO.

and bordering GW2 really.

Lykanus

m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »

Looking forward to testing these changes in the game

Is there any chance we'll have any werewolf changes soon?

Yea really hope there will be some changes soon, since Werewolf is the most underperforming skillline overall (much more then _every_ other!).

Cogo

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

But i cannot idly stand by and pat them on the back for Problems this community saw way before this game was launched, Many members called them on closed limited beta for friends and family only for end game activites. Nor should you for the money spent by consumers on this game. I still enjoy the game and i think the 1-50 content is subperb i never felt a flat get me to end game spot the whole process.But the MMO portion was largely missing it was primarily a single player game aside from a few activites

With all this said i still enjoy my reroll and i still have faith But i have watched to many of the community in my guilds Bail and unsub vowing never to return because of ZOS oversight/ mis managment .Primarily in the balance department and the Lack of actuall roles in end game. Everyone is DPS in light armor that taunts or heals. Sorry i come off as harsh and trash talking but its the facts. The comment "Serioulsy are you trolling us" was a reaction to them increasing DPS on the ranged spec melee by 30% with changes to snipe , and maybe a 10% increase to melee on a sustained fight. It made me think they still don't understand their own mechanics and rotations. Melee runs a huge risk for very little gain 10% is not gonna cut it,(FYI hundngs is still broken Crit still does not apply to weapon damage Jessica)

Alright, we all have reactions. Im one of em :-p

ESO is a MMO, where grouping is just as possible as every else. EVEN, you get 10% extra exp from killing mobs in a group, WITHOUT loosing any exp per mob for being grouped.

I think one main problem in ESO that would solve ALOT of things, but people dont like to hear this one:

Get a group.

You don't HAVE to use the group tool. You can invite anyone, a friend, a guildie, someone unknown.
And do not say its not possible to get a group, because Ive grouped most my playtime, all levels, and now at Vet levels, always grouped with someone.

Cant really blame the game if someone don't bother to get a group, other then yell in zone chat once....and give up :-p


But look what you are talking about. They ARE looking at light armor, and they ARE aware that its vastly superior to heavy armor when it comes to tanking.

They will balance this. Just that, and I think you know, balance in a skill based game is not just to change. Its a big map and look where you change so it wount mean that the whole server will be heavy armor Nightblades, tanking in bow and doing best damage with a healing staff.


You can not dispute that a new player, starting today, will have a complete different experience then we did who started on launch. Thats normal in MMOs.

The important part is how the company manages the game. So far they done pretty damn well. Sure, could do better, but cant we all?

Just the fact of this thread even existing, started by Zenimax. And others like it, proves it, dont you think?

Hell! They even by request from players, included a crafteble item in tomorrows patch!


I am certain things will balanced out, and we will still see a DK in a robe, using a destruction staff, but not ONLY, and with the pros and cons that makes it balanced. They still say the goal is to build your own class. I believe this.

But good balancing takes time. They are doing it. They even ask US. Tell me the last time any bigger MMO did that?

Yes, things could go quicker, but I suspect the time between balancing, unless its hugely stupid, like 1H and shield was. Its better that they gather info, working on balancing and then roll it out.

As for roles, that comes automaticly when balancing of skills/abilities are somewhat alright. This is a never ending job. And with new skills getting introduced, which is fantastic! Even bigger job......but they are doing it.

And for doing damage, I am as sure there that they working on things as well. If it doesnt work as intended. But there are groups who have done trials. Who have done the 12 man raid. So the damage can't be that broken.


And for high end content, I am GREEN of jealousy of all you Vet12 who gets to go into the new dungeon, with a story!

I'll wait though, Ill get there. I just have way to much to do in game right now at vet 1 level.