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Improvements for Stamina-Based Skills and Passives
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Eivar✭✭✭✭And for as long as Snipe took to cast, (three seconds, plus close to another two for it to lang) it wasn't that good. Crystal Shards is better - does more damage, has knockdown, has insta-cast chance, and faster cast. I like that they are making the minimum range lesser and the cast time to two seconds, but I don't think it will be enough to really make this different than what it is now = a decent skill for keep defense that is mostly an annoyance to attackers.
I agree, though if used correctly, such as with sneak attack, you can have it land, stun the target, and fire off another, and with this new buff to the skill maybe even get off a 3rd before your opponent can close range, def can with npcs. Obviously sorcs will be harder to pull that on as they can just Bolt into or out of range after breaking cc, but for the other classes this could be a very effective opening strategy.0 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I've thought they should add armor penetration to medium for a while now as well and I think it works. Penetrating armor doesn't mean punching through it IMO, but working your way in between the kinks of plate and other armors layers on someone, which fits a dextrous character build.
I agree that there should be access to more armor pen, as for what it means "lore-wise" it's largely irrelevant, though I suppose you could make the case that someone in medium armor would have more range of motion, hence why it would fit as a medium armor passive rather than a weapon one.
I'd rather armor pen be added to heavy armor, inside of the juggernaut trait. If they buff medium too much we won't see anyone wearing heavy armor anymore. Heavy already has the penalty of easily overcharging without any buffs, and even then you still get hit like a truck. Already have a good reason to switch out heavy for medium with their plans to add stamina cost reduction to it...0 -
Eivar✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »I've thought they should add armor penetration to medium for a while now as well and I think it works. Penetrating armor doesn't mean punching through it IMO, but working your way in between the kinks of plate and other armors layers on someone, which fits a dextrous character build.
I agree that there should be access to more armor pen, as for what it means "lore-wise" it's largely irrelevant, though I suppose you could make the case that someone in medium armor would have more range of motion, hence why it would fit as a medium armor passive rather than a weapon one.
I'd rather armor pen be added to heavy armor, inside of the juggernaut trait. If they buff medium too much we won't see anyone wearing heavy armor anymore. Heavy already has the penalty of easily overcharging without any buffs, and even then you still get hit like a truck. Already have a good reason to switch out heavy for medium with their plans to add stamina cost reduction to it...
I disagree about armor pen on heavy, your point is valid though, don't worry i'm sure they'll work on making heavy more worthwhile, I would imagine any changes made to heavy will be along the lines of survive-ability or possibly weapon dmg. it's to easy to cap armor to need to wear a full 7 piece heavy, if you want crit and armor pen you could try a 5H/2M or some other combination.0 -
Trayyacakes✭✭✭✭
No no no. Heavy armor is for health, not stamina or magicka. You are suppose to SURVIVE long enough to not need that regeneration or reduction of costs. Increase the healing taken, health regeneration and add a restore health on block or melee hit or something. From the beginning there has been 3 resource bars and 3 armor types. Changing heavy to be a mix of benefits for all 3 resources (health, magicka, stamina) will ruin the game. It will no longer be a choice of which stat to I go down, it will be everyone in heavy because it offers the best of all 3.[/quote]
This is a mistake. ESO is an elder scrolls game and a fantasy mmo. To have a fantasy mmo without the 2 handed Heavy Armor Damage Dealer being viable is unacceptable. No one cares about health regen. Health regen will not save you. 50 hp every 2 sec in combat does nothing when you are solo, and it is not noticeable in group content with healers. Heavy armor DD's should not get the burst that medium and light armor DD's receive because they get added survival, but they should do the same sustained damage over long fights. ditch the health regen bonus on heavy, and give it half the regen that medium gets for stamina and half the regen that light gets for magicka so it can sustain a level damage output. Don't give Heavy armor a crit bonus. Give them a percentage increase to ALL damage dealt, not spell damage or weapon power just damage. That way the number is easier to control/tweak for balance. To say that if you wear heavy armor you have to do less damage than everyone because you take more hits is wrong. There are hard dps checks in pve, and if I want to dps for those boss fights as a HA 2H DD I should have the option to do so. In PVP burst is king, so if you don't put any crit on heavy, the burst will not be there and it can be properly balanced.Bjorn Uldnost3 -
Bromburak✭✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Medium Armor- With the Wind Walker passive, medium armor will reduce stamina costs by 2% per piece equipped.
Cost of what? Everything?
Is this on top of the 2% Regen? Or instead of?
This is on top of the 2% Stamina regen, and the 2% stamina cost reduction is for all abilities that cost stamina (per piece equipped, so a total of 14% possible stamina cost reduction.)
Looks like I will definitely be switching to medium armor.
Why? You don't have more defence and your stamina based skills don't deal more damage. Give me one reason why you would drop light armor and your magicka based skills?
Edited by Bromburak on June 21, 2014 6:56PM0 -
Eivar✭✭✭✭Trayyacakes wrote: »This is a mistake. ESO is an elder scrolls game and a fantasy mmo. To have a fantasy mmo without the 2 handed Heavy Armor Damage Dealer being viable is unacceptable. No one cares about health regen. Health regen will not save you. 50 hp every 2 sec in combat does nothing when you are solo, and it is not noticeable in group content with healers. Heavy armor DD's should not get the burst that medium and light armor DD's receive because they get added survival, but they should do the same sustained damage over long fights. ditch the health regen bonus on heavy, and give it half the regen that medium gets for stamina and half the regen that light gets for magicka so it can sustain a level damage output. Don't give Heavy armor a crit bonus. Give them a percentage increase to ALL damage dealt, not spell damage or weapon power just damage. That way the number is easier to control/tweak for balance. To say that if you wear heavy armor you have to do less damage than everyone because you take more hits is wrong. There are hard dps checks in pve, and if I want to dps for those boss fights as a HA 2H DD I should have the option to do so. In PVP burst is king, so if you don't put any crit on heavy, the burst will not be there and it can be properly balanced.
I disagree about the hp regen, every little bit helps in longer fights, I would say an increase to the juggernaut bonus would be more effective, instead of .5% and 1%, try 1% and 2%, maybe more depending on how things turn out.1 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom, will there be dmg buffs to nightblades overall, just like templars, and not only tweaks to skills noone is using?
Have you not seen this:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/100627/nightblade-update/p1
Like i said, update to skills noone is using (path of darkness)
Noone is using heavy attack as a melee nb, almost noone is using haste for that matter.
The rest are just buggfixes that wont affect dmg, or nerfs (siphoning attacks)
They even hid the topic in a developer subforum becouse Nightblades think its not good enough.
They moved it from the general to developer, not to hide it but to show that they are actually working on it. Don't always grab for the negative interpretation.
No one looks at the developer discussions.
Hell, I didn't even know this was here until someone cross posted it.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »I thought it was a pretty reasonable suggestion.
Light armor gets pure +Magicka regen/reduction
Medium armor gets pure +Stamina regen/reduction
Heavy armor should get half the regen/reduction of each.
That makes all 3 armor types unique and equal when it comes to resource management.
Um, Heavy armor is unique already. No stamina/magika what so ever have anything to do with heavy armor.
Heavy armor: Biggest protection, Increased armor and SPELL RESIST (this is a big one), Health recovery, even weapon damage bonus. Small bonus I agree and that can be discussed, increased healing. Even the 5% makes a difference for a tank. And the HUGE 20% reduction in BLOCK. There you have a stamina reduction already.
No regen of stamina and magika on heavy armor. You only make heavy armor to powerful then. We do NOT want that circus. Those attributes don't belong on heavy.
They are unique the way they are. Tweaking their stats, that's another thing.
What I can understand is a question from heavy armor front damage builds. You do get protection, so that's useful for any damage dealer, as well as the resist and health regen.
The weapon damage buff you get from heavy armor, might be to small?
I don't know. But in the same question, I wonder if heavy armor should be the main "buffer" for damage weapons? I think its ok as it is. But can be discussed.
For example, as a pure tank with 0 skills in any damage ability, i SUCK at even mobs 1-50. BUT in Coldharbour, I was expecting to not be able to kill anything unless I grouped up with someone.
Most mobs in there seamed to be Daedra and undead. The 9% extra damage from the fighter guild skill line (Didnt have it). When I put skill point in there, I had no problem killing most things! Felt a lot more damage then 9%!
All 3 armors should have unique differences, and not "mirror" each other. This is how you build so many different builds, isn't it?
What does a melee DPS templar that wants to use his class abilities use? They all use Magicka as their resource.
Does he use Medium Armor and get a bunch of Stamina Regeneration he can't use?
Does he use Light Armor and fight in close quarters using melee range class abilities like Puncturing strikes and get shred to pieces?
Or, does he use at least 5 Heavy Armor for the extra protection in melee range with a few light pieces for SOME resource regeneration/reduction?
That reduces his resource regeneration/reduction from any LIGHT pieces he wears to a very small percentage. Consider the fact that all his abilities all cost more than 300 magicka, some over 400 magicka, because they are all insanely expensive for some reason.
Now consider he has no skills that return magicka to him. All he has is his resource reductions from any Light pieces he is forced to wear.
This is why I think it would be advantageous to add SOME magicka regen to Heavy Armor. It just has to have something that helps magicka for the sake of Templar class abilities.
The reason I say give it half the stamina regen of medium and half the magicka regen of light is because some people use Heavy with Stamina abilities too. Tanks like you for example. Don't tanks like to have resources available too? I mean like a taunt button or something. Would kinda suck if a Templar tank was trying to use Puncture or something to get threat back and couldn't cause he had no Stamina left. I could personally care less about the Stamina though.
regin or cost reduction has too be added too heavy amour period skills are to expensive too be able too use them in heavy amour. as a scorc tank i can use my defensive ability 4 times in a row before im out of magic i can imagine how it is for Templar. i have 2k magic already
That would defeat the purpose of heavy armor.
Light = Magicka
Medium = Stamina
Heavy = Health
Heavy armor is suppose to last long enough that you do not need the extra regeneration on your magicka or stamina. I understand that you want instant DPS results, but the real answer is to buff or correct heavy armor survival to the point that it sits in that balance where it was designed to be. I am not saying that heavy armor does not need a buff. All I am saying that adding stamina or magicka reduced cost or regeneration is not the correct path to go down.
Be it higher damage reduction, even more increased healing received, or more health regen. Maybe change the rapid mending to restore health % on successful block? I do not know. All I know is adding stamina/magicka is only going to make everyone switch to heavy, and we will be sitting in the same boat we are now with light armor.
For the damage output that heavy armor users are looking for, juggernaut needs to be tweaked. First to include all weapon skills (yes staves for battle mages and bows), second it needs to be buffed up by at least 1% per piece if not two. It would be better for the game in my opinion if heavy armor did not get the reduction of costs, or the regeneration of DPS resources that the other armors get, but make their weapon skills hit for a fair % more.
Would be fine and dandy if VR mobs lost their armor/spell pen.
As it is, I might as well be fighting naked because they still hit just as hard.1 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Trayyacakes wrote: »This is a mistake. ESO is an elder scrolls game and a fantasy mmo. To have a fantasy mmo without the 2 handed Heavy Armor Damage Dealer being viable is unacceptable. No one cares about health regen. Health regen will not save you. 50 hp every 2 sec in combat does nothing when you are solo, and it is not noticeable in group content with healers. Heavy armor DD's should not get the burst that medium and light armor DD's receive because they get added survival, but they should do the same sustained damage over long fights. ditch the health regen bonus on heavy, and give it half the regen that medium gets for stamina and half the regen that light gets for magicka so it can sustain a level damage output. Don't give Heavy armor a crit bonus. Give them a percentage increase to ALL damage dealt, not spell damage or weapon power just damage. That way the number is easier to control/tweak for balance. To say that if you wear heavy armor you have to do less damage than everyone because you take more hits is wrong. There are hard dps checks in pve, and if I want to dps for those boss fights as a HA 2H DD I should have the option to do so. In PVP burst is king, so if you don't put any crit on heavy, the burst will not be there and it can be properly balanced.
I disagree about the hp regen, every little bit helps in longer fights, I would say an increase to the juggernaut bonus would be more effective, instead of .5% and 1%, try 1% and 2%, maybe more depending on how things turn out.
When you're constantly getting hit that regen is garbage.
Complete utter garbage.2 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Medium Armor
- With the Wind Walker passive, medium armor will reduce stamina costs by 2% per piece equipped.
Cost of what? Everything?
Is this on top of the 2% Regen? Or instead of?
This is on top of the 2% Stamina regen, and the 2% stamina cost reduction is for all abilities that cost stamina (per piece equipped, so a total of 14% possible stamina cost reduction.)
Looks like I will definitely be switching to medium armor.
Why? You don't have more defence and your stamina based skills don't deal more damage. Give me one reason why you would drop light armor and your magicka based skills?
I don't know where you got the Idea I was using light armor. I use heavy armor.2 -
Eivar✭✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom, will there be dmg buffs to nightblades overall, just like templars, and not only tweaks to skills noone is using?
Have you not seen this:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/100627/nightblade-update/p1
Like i said, update to skills noone is using (path of darkness)
Noone is using heavy attack as a melee nb, almost noone is using haste for that matter.
The rest are just buggfixes that wont affect dmg, or nerfs (siphoning attacks)
They even hid the topic in a developer subforum becouse Nightblades think its not good enough.
They moved it from the general to developer, not to hide it but to show that they are actually working on it. Don't always grab for the negative interpretation.
No one looks at the developer discussions.
Hell, I didn't even know this was here until someone cross posted it.alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »I thought it was a pretty reasonable suggestion.
Light armor gets pure +Magicka regen/reduction
Medium armor gets pure +Stamina regen/reduction
Heavy armor should get half the regen/reduction of each.
That makes all 3 armor types unique and equal when it comes to resource management.
Um, Heavy armor is unique already. No stamina/magika what so ever have anything to do with heavy armor.
Heavy armor: Biggest protection, Increased armor and SPELL RESIST (this is a big one), Health recovery, even weapon damage bonus. Small bonus I agree and that can be discussed, increased healing. Even the 5% makes a difference for a tank. And the HUGE 20% reduction in BLOCK. There you have a stamina reduction already.
No regen of stamina and magika on heavy armor. You only make heavy armor to powerful then. We do NOT want that circus. Those attributes don't belong on heavy.
They are unique the way they are. Tweaking their stats, that's another thing.
What I can understand is a question from heavy armor front damage builds. You do get protection, so that's useful for any damage dealer, as well as the resist and health regen.
The weapon damage buff you get from heavy armor, might be to small?
I don't know. But in the same question, I wonder if heavy armor should be the main "buffer" for damage weapons? I think its ok as it is. But can be discussed.
For example, as a pure tank with 0 skills in any damage ability, i SUCK at even mobs 1-50. BUT in Coldharbour, I was expecting to not be able to kill anything unless I grouped up with someone.
Most mobs in there seamed to be Daedra and undead. The 9% extra damage from the fighter guild skill line (Didnt have it). When I put skill point in there, I had no problem killing most things! Felt a lot more damage then 9%!
All 3 armors should have unique differences, and not "mirror" each other. This is how you build so many different builds, isn't it?
What does a melee DPS templar that wants to use his class abilities use? They all use Magicka as their resource.
Does he use Medium Armor and get a bunch of Stamina Regeneration he can't use?
Does he use Light Armor and fight in close quarters using melee range class abilities like Puncturing strikes and get shred to pieces?
Or, does he use at least 5 Heavy Armor for the extra protection in melee range with a few light pieces for SOME resource regeneration/reduction?
That reduces his resource regeneration/reduction from any LIGHT pieces he wears to a very small percentage. Consider the fact that all his abilities all cost more than 300 magicka, some over 400 magicka, because they are all insanely expensive for some reason.
Now consider he has no skills that return magicka to him. All he has is his resource reductions from any Light pieces he is forced to wear.
This is why I think it would be advantageous to add SOME magicka regen to Heavy Armor. It just has to have something that helps magicka for the sake of Templar class abilities.
The reason I say give it half the stamina regen of medium and half the magicka regen of light is because some people use Heavy with Stamina abilities too. Tanks like you for example. Don't tanks like to have resources available too? I mean like a taunt button or something. Would kinda suck if a Templar tank was trying to use Puncture or something to get threat back and couldn't cause he had no Stamina left. I could personally care less about the Stamina though.
regin or cost reduction has too be added too heavy amour period skills are to expensive too be able too use them in heavy amour. as a scorc tank i can use my defensive ability 4 times in a row before im out of magic i can imagine how it is for Templar. i have 2k magic already
That would defeat the purpose of heavy armor.
Light = Magicka
Medium = Stamina
Heavy = Health
Heavy armor is suppose to last long enough that you do not need the extra regeneration on your magicka or stamina. I understand that you want instant DPS results, but the real answer is to buff or correct heavy armor survival to the point that it sits in that balance where it was designed to be. I am not saying that heavy armor does not need a buff. All I am saying that adding stamina or magicka reduced cost or regeneration is not the correct path to go down.
Be it higher damage reduction, even more increased healing received, or more health regen. Maybe change the rapid mending to restore health % on successful block? I do not know. All I know is adding stamina/magicka is only going to make everyone switch to heavy, and we will be sitting in the same boat we are now with light armor.
For the damage output that heavy armor users are looking for, juggernaut needs to be tweaked. First to include all weapon skills (yes staves for battle mages and bows), second it needs to be buffed up by at least 1% per piece if not two. It would be better for the game in my opinion if heavy armor did not get the reduction of costs, or the regeneration of DPS resources that the other armors get, but make their weapon skills hit for a fair % more.
Would be fine and dandy if VR mobs lost their armor/spell pen.
As it is, I might as well be fighting naked because they still hit just as hard.
I didn't notice this category was here either until the I saw a cross post as well, that still doesn't mean it was a move to hide, if they wanted to do that they could have just sunk the thread and been done with it, more likely it was just an oversight not mentioning it.
I've gotta say I agree about VR mobs and how hard they hit, the challenge is a bit refreshing, but it seems like a kneejerk reaction to some of the more OP builds being able to crush everything, rather than tone them down they buffed up mobs and made it more difficult for the less OP builds, short-term band-aid fix. When they finishing tuning melee builds it may work out fine, but their method of slow small adjustments doesn't really work with the VR mob buff, it just frustrates a lot of people.0 -
Eivar✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Medium Armor
- With the Wind Walker passive, medium armor will reduce stamina costs by 2% per piece equipped.
Cost of what? Everything?
Is this on top of the 2% Regen? Or instead of?
This is on top of the 2% Stamina regen, and the 2% stamina cost reduction is for all abilities that cost stamina (per piece equipped, so a total of 14% possible stamina cost reduction.)
Looks like I will definitely be switching to medium armor.
Why? You don't have more defence and your stamina based skills don't deal more damage. Give me one reason why you would drop light armor and your magicka based skills?
I don't know where you got the Idea I was using light armor. I use heavy armor.
Shut up everyone uses light armor and a stick, don't you know anything?
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demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »I've thought they should add armor penetration to medium for a while now as well and I think it works. Penetrating armor doesn't mean punching through it IMO, but working your way in between the kinks of plate and other armors layers on someone, which fits a dextrous character build.
I agree that there should be access to more armor pen, as for what it means "lore-wise" it's largely irrelevant, though I suppose you could make the case that someone in medium armor would have more range of motion, hence why it would fit as a medium armor passive rather than a weapon one.
I'd rather armor pen be added to heavy armor, inside of the juggernaut trait. If they buff medium too much we won't see anyone wearing heavy armor anymore. Heavy already has the penalty of easily overcharging without any buffs, and even then you still get hit like a truck. Already have a good reason to switch out heavy for medium with their plans to add stamina cost reduction to it...
I disagree about armor pen on heavy, your point is valid though, don't worry i'm sure they'll work on making heavy more worthwhile, I would imagine any changes made to heavy will be along the lines of survive-ability or possibly weapon dmg. it's to easy to cap armor to need to wear a full 7 piece heavy, if you want crit and armor pen you could try a 5H/2M or some other combination.
No, the main problem with adding armor pen to medium armor instead of heavy armor is now you make heavy armor even more vunerable than it already is. Medium armor people will simply negate the armor of heavy armor users. Light armor people already simply negate the spell resist of everyone. Now what is a heavy armor user going to do to survive when his heavy armor armor is made non-existant by anyone wearing anything other than heavy armor? People are going to drop heavy armor like a bad habit.
Adding it to medium adds yet another balance issue, and will cause more people to drop heavy armor because even the armor of it will become worthless. On the flipside adding it to heavy armor will do the same thing, BUT will still give reason to wear that heavy armor. Its like the light armor passives give more spell resist, but also give spell penetration.
Another reason not to add it to medium is that medium armor damage is going to simply fly through the roof. Not only do critical attacks already do more damage, but now you are ignoring a percentage armor at all times too causing even more damage.
Its simply not going to go well if they add armor pen to medium, if they ever do add armor pen. Heavy armor should have the steady damage, not higher than crits, while medium armor crits do more than heavy armor increased damage output.
In short, there needs to be CLEAR reasons to choose between the 3 for both damage and survival. Actually I have a very long list of buffs to add to each armor types that I will copy over to here.Here are my ideas to make give better reasons to use other armor types:
For medium armor
Dexterity: Change to affect all attacks, increase crit chance by .5% per rank, and add .5% crit damage increase per piece of light armor per rank.
Windwalker: add decrease stamina costs by 2% per piece of medium armor equipped (assumed with 2 skill points spent, and already planned by devs)
Agility: Add chance to dodge attacks by 7.5% per rank.
Elude (Evasion Morph): Change to increase dodge chance by 1% per rank instead of continuing to increase the duration.
Shuffle (Evasion Morph): Change snare removal to increased movement speed by 1% per piece of medium armor, increasing by 1% per rank instead of increasing duration.
For heavy armor
Resolve: Change to 1/2/3% damage mitigation per piece of medium armor when below 50% HP.
Juggernaut: Increase weapon damage by .5% per rank and add Armor penetration/ignore per piece of heavy armor equipped 2% per rank.
Bracing: Add reduce damage from critical strikes by 7.5% per rank.
Rapid Mending: I really hate this one. Change it to a properly named skill for reducing stamina costs of abilities by 1% per piece of heavy armor equipped per rank. With the other damage mitigations, increased healing taken is no longer important.
Immobile: Increase duration to 15 seconds.
Immobile brute morph: Make the ability increase weapon damage 1% more per rank instead of continuing to increase the armor/spell resist the skill gives.
Unstoppable: Change duration increase to further increased armor starting at 1500, spell resist stays at 1000.
For light armor
Evocation: Add increased spell crit by 3% per 25% of magica lost.
Prodigy: Add absorb 7.5% of the damage from spells as magicka per rank.
Concentration: Add 1% increased damage with spells per piece of light armor equipped per rank.
Annulment: Increase the damage shield value.
All armor skills, make their durations and morphed effects 1/2 of their normal value when a 5 set of the armor they are derived from is not equipped.
There is far more choice involved with this imo and none of the armor sets are flat out bad. All sets need the ability to reduce costs of something to a degree, or else the skill lines like Werewolf and Fighters guild won't be reducible.
Made modifications to med armor since stamina cost reduction is already planned for that. Clearer reasons, only by more extreme modifications to all armor types.Edited by demonlkojipub19_ESO on June 21, 2014 7:56PM1 -
Quaesivi✭✭✭There was no such thing as dresses in TES games that gives armor & spell resist.
When you wore a dress, you wore a damn dress that gets you killed in less than 0 seconds if you got hit.
Light/Medium/Heavy armor was just dependent on what material was used to make the armor, such as usage of bones/glass being light, leather and sort being medium, metal being heavy.
Instead, you made clothes give armor... and spell resist, that is far superior to heavy armor, which should be the most protective.
Apart from the useless idea of using Stamina bar for every damn thing, seriously, whoever came up with that idea should get shot, Health recovery is also a very useless stat, especially when 1 single hit from an enemy can go upto 1500 damage, which is usually more than half of your health, what is 50 regeneration per 2 second is going to do? Granted, every other regeneration is crap as well, 70-80 is not helping either, but guess what, Magicka can be regained more than spent, Stamina is... impossible to regain.
An Example;
I'm a Tank, purely Stamina build, in Heavy Armor (yea my bad), I got overcharged Health/Stamina (Roughly 2600 Health and 1970 Stamina), even without blocking, without using any skills, I can gain Magicka almost twice as fast as Stamina (from the point of unusability), despite having a 5x Magicka/7x Stamina recovery rate.
Do you truly want to fix the Stamina issues? Stop what you have been doing, ignore the guy who is giving you ideas about these issues and find someone new, heck, toss a coin to decide things and it would end up in a better way.
You need to separate the Action (Block/CC-Break/Sprint) & Damage (Stamina Skills) Bars, IF you can not, you kinda have to improve the Stamina regeneration rate to what it was in other TES games, which is like roughly 5 times of what it is now.
Not to mention all the fixes needed for Medium/Heavy Armor and Weapon Skills, they are... really a joke, at least it seems like that was your intention.
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Trayyacakes✭✭✭✭Trayyacakes wrote: »This is a mistake. ESO is an elder scrolls game and a fantasy mmo. To have a fantasy mmo without the 2 handed Heavy Armor Damage Dealer being viable is unacceptable. No one cares about health regen. Health regen will not save you. 50 hp every 2 sec in combat does nothing when you are solo, and it is not noticeable in group content with healers. Heavy armor DD's should not get the burst that medium and light armor DD's receive because they get added survival, but they should do the same sustained damage over long fights. ditch the health regen bonus on heavy, and give it half the regen that medium gets for stamina and half the regen that light gets for magicka so it can sustain a level damage output. Don't give Heavy armor a crit bonus. Give them a percentage increase to ALL damage dealt, not spell damage or weapon power just damage. That way the number is easier to control/tweak for balance. To say that if you wear heavy armor you have to do less damage than everyone because you take more hits is wrong. There are hard dps checks in pve, and if I want to dps for those boss fights as a HA 2H DD I should have the option to do so. In PVP burst is king, so if you don't put any crit on heavy, the burst will not be there and it can be properly balanced.
I disagree about the hp regen, every little bit helps in longer fights, I would say an increase to the juggernaut bonus would be more effective, instead of .5% and 1%, try 1% and 2%, maybe more depending on how things turn out.
When you're constantly getting hit that regen is garbage.
Complete utter garbage.
In longer fights or shorter fights or medium fights it doesn't get any better. If you have 50 in health regen it is 25hps... 25 hps does not get better or worse with fight duration it stays 25hps, and 25hps in endgame content is nothing. In a full set of HA your health regen is increased by 28%. I am a Nord. naked my health regen is 40. If I go full heavy that is an 11.2 increase to my health regen, so it is an increase of 11. That is 5.5hps I gain in full heavy. That is Crap. You can argue with about it all you want, that doesn't change how bad it is.
Bjorn Uldnost0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Medium Armor- With the Wind Walker passive, medium armor will reduce stamina costs by 2% per piece equipped.
Cost of what? Everything?
Is this on top of the 2% Regen? Or instead of?
This is on top of the 2% Stamina regen, and the 2% stamina cost reduction is for all abilities that cost stamina (per piece equipped, so a total of 14% possible stamina cost reduction.)
Looks like I will definitely be switching to medium armor. Heavy armor really needs to get a 14% stamina cost reduction too tho.
Heavy armor, other than being more protective, is the "increase overall weapon damage" armor without raising crit. Its not even a big increase either unless you are using immovable brute with it.
No it doesn't. Heavy is suppose to last long enough that you don't need it. Stop asking for a stamina reduction or regeneration. You should be asking for your armor and mitigation to be buffed to the point where it actually feels like you are wearing heavy armor. Not reducing the costs of physical activities so you can roll around like someone without armor.1 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Medium Armor
- With the Wind Walker passive, medium armor will reduce stamina costs by 2% per piece equipped.
Cost of what? Everything?
Is this on top of the 2% Regen? Or instead of?
This is on top of the 2% Stamina regen, and the 2% stamina cost reduction is for all abilities that cost stamina (per piece equipped, so a total of 14% possible stamina cost reduction.)
Looks like I will definitely be switching to medium armor. Heavy armor really needs to get a 14% stamina cost reduction too tho.
Heavy armor, other than being more protective, is the "increase overall weapon damage" armor without raising crit. Its not even a big increase either unless you are using immovable brute with it.
No it doesn't. Heavy is suppose to last long enough that you don't need it. Stop asking for a stamina reduction or regeneration. You should be asking for your armor and mitigation to be buffed to the point where it actually feels like you are wearing heavy armor. Not reducing the costs of physical activities so you can roll around like someone without armor.
I think its more than fair for heavy armor to also get a stamina cost reduction. And if you actually tried out heavy armor in the great land of cyrodil you'd find out that you don't last as long as you should in it. The idea of heavy armor = protection and nothing more is more than invalidated by the existence of light armor trait spell pen, the fact that almost every good attack in the game is a spell, and now medium armor will get that stamina cost reduction meaning they will last a hellava lot longer than you while doing more damage via critical attacks, still being able to use the only thing people level up heavy armor to get and make it cost less stamina to boot.
I see only a very long way to go in their changes and heavy armor needs love for combat too in more ways than armor.Edited by demonlkojipub19_ESO on June 21, 2014 7:34PM0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »I've thought they should add armor penetration to medium for a while now as well and I think it works. Penetrating armor doesn't mean punching through it IMO, but working your way in between the kinks of plate and other armors layers on someone, which fits a dextrous character build.
I agree that there should be access to more armor pen, as for what it means "lore-wise" it's largely irrelevant, though I suppose you could make the case that someone in medium armor would have more range of motion, hence why it would fit as a medium armor passive rather than a weapon one.
I'd rather armor pen be added to heavy armor, inside of the juggernaut trait. If they buff medium too much we won't see anyone wearing heavy armor anymore. Heavy already has the penalty of easily overcharging without any buffs, and even then you still get hit like a truck. Already have a good reason to switch out heavy for medium with their plans to add stamina cost reduction to it...
Same thing if you buff heavy too much. Heavy is suppose to be the health stat, tanking armor, not stamina dps armor. Now the armor penetration might make sense on heavy, but i think it would be better to just include all weapon skills to juggernaut and just increase it to 2% or 3% per piece, for a total of 14% or 21% instead of the mere 7% they have now. Either way, the main thing that should be getting buffed on heavy armor is not the damage output, but its defensive abilities. It needs to actually feel like heavy armor, not just provide 15% damage reduction over light cloth armor.0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭Trayyacakes wrote: »This is a mistake. ESO is an elder scrolls game and a fantasy mmo. To have a fantasy mmo without the 2 handed Heavy Armor Damage Dealer being viable is unacceptable. No one cares about health regen. Health regen will not save you. 50 hp every 2 sec in combat does nothing when you are solo, and it is not noticeable in group content with healers. Heavy armor DD's should not get the burst that medium and light armor DD's receive because they get added survival, but they should do the same sustained damage over long fights. ditch the health regen bonus on heavy, and give it half the regen that medium gets for stamina and half the regen that light gets for magicka so it can sustain a level damage output. Don't give Heavy armor a crit bonus. Give them a percentage increase to ALL damage dealt, not spell damage or weapon power just damage. That way the number is easier to control/tweak for balance. To say that if you wear heavy armor you have to do less damage than everyone because you take more hits is wrong. There are hard dps checks in pve, and if I want to dps for those boss fights as a HA 2H DD I should have the option to do so. In PVP burst is king, so if you don't put any crit on heavy, the burst will not be there and it can be properly balanced.
Did you even fully read what I typed, not just the regen, buff the healing received. Increase the protection it provides. You go on this rant about how fantasy MMOs, but this is an ELDER SCROLLS game foremost. Heavy has always been the take less damage health buff in TES. All stamina regen or magicka regen has no place on heavy...If you read what i have been saying, i am not disagreeing with buffing juggernaut or other means of damage. I am all for heavy being a slow hard hitter, but they should not have the same stamina/magicka reductions/regeneration that allow them to spam abilities, If that happens, heavy armor will become the "hybrid" armor for people that use both stamina and magicka, light armor and medium armor will be overwhelmed.
Stop looking to improve the armor to be something it was never meant to be, start looking to improve the armor for what it already has.
You want a stronger in combat health perk than regeneration? Several people have suggested this, and this in my opinion is the best way to do this, offer returned health on successful block or interrupt.
Edited by Lyall84 on June 21, 2014 7:49PM0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »I've thought they should add armor penetration to medium for a while now as well and I think it works. Penetrating armor doesn't mean punching through it IMO, but working your way in between the kinks of plate and other armors layers on someone, which fits a dextrous character build.
I agree that there should be access to more armor pen, as for what it means "lore-wise" it's largely irrelevant, though I suppose you could make the case that someone in medium armor would have more range of motion, hence why it would fit as a medium armor passive rather than a weapon one.
I'd rather armor pen be added to heavy armor, inside of the juggernaut trait. If they buff medium too much we won't see anyone wearing heavy armor anymore. Heavy already has the penalty of easily overcharging without any buffs, and even then you still get hit like a truck. Already have a good reason to switch out heavy for medium with their plans to add stamina cost reduction to it...
I disagree about armor pen on heavy, your point is valid though, don't worry i'm sure they'll work on making heavy more worthwhile, I would imagine any changes made to heavy will be along the lines of survive-ability or possibly weapon dmg. it's to easy to cap armor to need to wear a full 7 piece heavy, if you want crit and armor pen you could try a 5H/2M or some other combination.
No, the main problem with adding armor pen to medium armor instead of heavy armor is now you make heavy armor even more vunerable than it already is. Medium armor people will simply negate the armor of heavy armor users. Light armor people already simply negate the spell resist of everyone. Now what is a heavy armor user going to do to survive when his heavy armor armor is made non-existant by anyone wearing anything other than heavy armor? People are going to drop heavy armor like a bad habit.
Adding it to medium adds yet another balance issue, and will cause more people to drop heavy armor because even the armor of it will become worthless. On the flipside adding it to heavy armor will do the same thing, BUT will still give reason to wear that heavy armor. Its like the light armor passives give more spell resist, but also give spell penetration.
Another reason not to add it to medium is that medium armor damage is going to simply fly through the roof. Not only do critical attacks already do more damage, but now you are ignoring a percentage armor at all times too causing even more damage.
Its simply not going to go well if they add armor pen to medium, if they ever do add armor pen. Heavy armor should have the steady damage, not higher than crits, while medium armor crits do more than heavy armor increased damage output.
In short, there needs to be CLEAR reasons to choose between the 3 for both damage and survival. Actually I have a very long list of buffs to add to each armor types that I will copy over to here.demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »Here are my ideas to make give better reasons to use other armor types:
For medium armor
Dexterity: Change to affect all attacks, increase crit chance by .5% per rank, and add .5% crit damage increase per piece of light armor per rank.
Windwalker: add decrease stamina costs by 2% per piece of heavy armor equipped (assumed with 2 skill points spent, and already planned by devs)
Agility: Add chance to dodge attacks by 7.5% per rank.
Elude (Evasion Morph): Change to increase dodge chance by 1% per rank instead of continuing to increase the duration.
Shuffle (Evasion Morph): Change snare removal to increased movement speed by 1% per piece of medium armor, increasing by 1% per rank instead of increasing duration.
For heavy armor
Resolve: Change to 1/2/3% damage mitigation per piece of heavy armor when below 50% HP.
Juggernaut: Increase weapon damage by .5% per rank and add Armor penetration/ignore per piece of heavy armor equipped 2% per rank.
Bracing: Add reduce damage from critical strikes by 7.5% per rank.
Rapid Mending: I really hate this one. Change it to a properly named skill for reducing stamina costs of abilities by 1% per piece of heavy armor equipped per rank. With the other damage mitigations, increased healing taken is no longer important.
Immobile: Increase duration to 15 seconds.
Immobile brute morph: Make the ability increase weapon damage 1% more per rank instead of continuing to increase the armor/spell resist the skill gives.
Unstoppable: Change duration increase to further increased armor starting at 1500, spell resist stays at 1000.
For light armor
Evocation: Add increased spell crit by 3% per 25% of magica lost.
Prodigy: Add absorb 7.5% of the damage from spells as magicka per rank.
Concentration: Add 1% increased damage with spells per piece of light armor equipped per rank.
Annulment: Increase the damage shield value.
All armor skills, make their durations and morphed effects 1/2 of their normal value when a 5 set of the armor they are derived from is not equipped.
There is far more choice involved with this imo and none of the armor sets are flat out bad. All sets need the ability to reduce costs of something to a degree, or else the skill lines like Werewolf and Fighters guild won't be reducible.
Made modifications to med armor since stamina cost reduction is already planned for that. Clearer reasons, only by more extreme modifications to all armor types.
Some of the stuff looks good. But adding any type of resource management other than health management defeats the purpose of having 3 armor types in this game.
Light is for magicka, Medium for stamina, Heavy for health.
I understand you want to do more DPS as a heavy armor wearing person. But the way to fix this is to increase their damage per hit via juggernaut, not give them stamina regeneration so they can spam abilities or roll around more. If you bring up costs of blocking, then ask for a tweak to your already 20% block reduction passive. Make it 30% reduction to block if that is what is needed. If you start adding reductions to stamina or magicka cost, or regeneration to heavy, you are taking away from the purpose of light and medium armor.
As far as the not adding armor pen to medium, just increase the amount of armor heavy gets to compensate. The armor pen suggestion for medium armor is not a direct stab at heavy armor, it is pointing out the fact that light armor gets spell pen, and resistance to counter that pen, heavy armor gets spell resistance to counter that pen (not nearly as much as light, but still 21% more than medium gets). So medium armor is left sitting out there, taking more damage from light armor than any other armor type, and dealing less damage to heavy. They need the armor pen to balance the scales with light armor. If that gives them too much damage against heavy, then add more armor to heavy or increase its effectiveness.
This is not WOW, or any other MMO where heavy armor is restricted to your class so you have to be able to DPS in heavy. Every class can wear every armor. Heavy armor in this game is designed to help you survive via taking damage, not by killing quicker.2 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Trayyacakes wrote: »No no no. Heavy armor is for health, not stamina or magicka. You are suppose to SURVIVE long enough to not need that regeneration or reduction of costs. Increase the healing taken, health regeneration and add a restore health on block or melee hit or something. From the beginning there has been 3 resource bars and 3 armor types. Changing heavy to be a mix of benefits for all 3 resources (health, magicka, stamina) will ruin the game. It will no longer be a choice of which stat to I go down, it will be everyone in heavy because it offers the best of all 3.
This is a mistake. ESO is an elder scrolls game and a fantasy mmo. To have a fantasy mmo without the 2 handed Heavy Armor Damage Dealer being viable is unacceptable. No one cares about health regen. Health regen will not save you. 50 hp every 2 sec in combat does nothing when you are solo, and it is not noticeable in group content with healers. Heavy armor DD's should not get the burst that medium and light armor DD's receive because they get added survival, but they should do the same sustained damage over long fights. ditch the health regen bonus on heavy, and give it half the regen that medium gets for stamina and half the regen that light gets for magicka so it can sustain a level damage output. Don't give Heavy armor a crit bonus. Give them a percentage increase to ALL damage dealt, not spell damage or weapon power just damage. That way the number is easier to control/tweak for balance. To say that if you wear heavy armor you have to do less damage than everyone because you take more hits is wrong. There are hard dps checks in pve, and if I want to dps for those boss fights as a HA 2H DD I should have the option to do so. In PVP burst is king, so if you don't put any crit on heavy, the burst will not be there and it can be properly balanced.
Did you even fully read what I typed, not just the regen, buff the healing received. Increase the protection it provides. You go on this rant about how fantasy MMOs, but this is an ELDER SCROLLS game foremost. Heavy has always been the take less damage health buff in TES. All stamina regen or magicka regen has no place on heavy...If you read what i have been saying, i am not disagreeing with buffing juggernaut or other means of damage. I am all for heavy being a slow hard hitter, but they should not have the same stamina/magicka reductions/regeneration that allow them to spam abilities, If that happens, heavy armor will become the "hybrid" armor for people that use both stamina and magicka, light armor and medium armor will be overwhelmed.
Stop looking to improve the armor to be something it was never meant to be, start looking to improve the armor for what it already has.
You want a stronger in combat health perk than regeneration? Several people have suggested this, and this in my opinion is the best way to do this, offer returned health on successful block or interrupt.
[/quote]
If you want to make it more of an ELDER SCROLLS game then we can just take the crit chance off of medium armor. It isn't present in skyrim. Neither is the reduced cost of stamina skills either.
Or we can just leave what happens in other ES games out of this since it is not a single player ES games, because being exactly like them actually means ruining balance, because they are single player games. MMO =|single player when it comes to balance effects.Edited by demonlkojipub19_ESO on June 21, 2014 7:54PM0 -
Bromburak✭✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Medium Armor
- With the Wind Walker passive, medium armor will reduce stamina costs by 2% per piece equipped.
Cost of what? Everything?
Is this on top of the 2% Regen? Or instead of?
This is on top of the 2% Stamina regen, and the 2% stamina cost reduction is for all abilities that cost stamina (per piece equipped, so a total of 14% possible stamina cost reduction.)
Looks like I will definitely be switching to medium armor.
Why? You don't have more defence and your stamina based skills don't deal more damage. Give me one reason why you would drop light armor and your magicka based skills?
I don't know where you got the Idea I was using light armor. I use heavy armor.
Even worse, actually didn't expect anything else.
Edited by Bromburak on June 21, 2014 7:52PM0 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree with @Layall84 .
As long at the 2H Weapon power cap is that low, (181 for V7 character), anything that gives % bonus on power is getting useless.
And the first thing that is useless when you hit that cap is the Heavy Armour. Because medium raises you crit, stamina regen (even if that little bit) and allow you to defend better (low dodge cost).
While the heavy armour is doesn't actually provide that much more. V7 blue Med-Heavy is something like 500 AC difference.
The next thing that goes is the Greatsword. You put a Maul for that pitiful 80 armour penetration.
You will ask why not Greataxe. Because Brawler dot conflicts with the Greataxe dot and only the later will apply all the time.
Talking about Brawler. Compare it with the Impulse, and there is where the problem resides in Veteran content also.
As long as the VR mobs are that though with that high armour penetration, no melee character build will be viable, if you do not want to face the challenge and frustration.
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Lyall84✭✭✭✭Trayyacakes wrote: »Trayyacakes wrote: »This is a mistake. ESO is an elder scrolls game and a fantasy mmo. To have a fantasy mmo without the 2 handed Heavy Armor Damage Dealer being viable is unacceptable. No one cares about health regen. Health regen will not save you. 50 hp every 2 sec in combat does nothing when you are solo, and it is not noticeable in group content with healers. Heavy armor DD's should not get the burst that medium and light armor DD's receive because they get added survival, but they should do the same sustained damage over long fights. ditch the health regen bonus on heavy, and give it half the regen that medium gets for stamina and half the regen that light gets for magicka so it can sustain a level damage output. Don't give Heavy armor a crit bonus. Give them a percentage increase to ALL damage dealt, not spell damage or weapon power just damage. That way the number is easier to control/tweak for balance. To say that if you wear heavy armor you have to do less damage than everyone because you take more hits is wrong. There are hard dps checks in pve, and if I want to dps for those boss fights as a HA 2H DD I should have the option to do so. In PVP burst is king, so if you don't put any crit on heavy, the burst will not be there and it can be properly balanced.
I disagree about the hp regen, every little bit helps in longer fights, I would say an increase to the juggernaut bonus would be more effective, instead of .5% and 1%, try 1% and 2%, maybe more depending on how things turn out.
When you're constantly getting hit that regen is garbage.
Complete utter garbage.
In longer fights or shorter fights or medium fights it doesn't get any better. If you have 50 in health regen it is 25hps... 25 hps does not get better or worse with fight duration it stays 25hps, and 25hps in endgame content is nothing. In a full set of HA your health regen is increased by 28%. I am a Nord. naked my health regen is 40. If I go full heavy that is an 11.2 increase to my health regen, so it is an increase of 11. That is 5.5hps I gain in full heavy. That is Crap. You can argue with about it all you want, that doesn't change how bad it is.
Agreed, the heavy armor health regen should be buffed to i would guess, x2 or x3 of what it is now to make it effective.0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Medium Armor
- With the Wind Walker passive, medium armor will reduce stamina costs by 2% per piece equipped.
Cost of what? Everything?
Is this on top of the 2% Regen? Or instead of?
This is on top of the 2% Stamina regen, and the 2% stamina cost reduction is for all abilities that cost stamina (per piece equipped, so a total of 14% possible stamina cost reduction.)
Looks like I will definitely be switching to medium armor. Heavy armor really needs to get a 14% stamina cost reduction too tho.
Heavy armor, other than being more protective, is the "increase overall weapon damage" armor without raising crit. Its not even a big increase either unless you are using immovable brute with it.
No it doesn't. Heavy is suppose to last long enough that you don't need it. Stop asking for a stamina reduction or regeneration. You should be asking for your armor and mitigation to be buffed to the point where it actually feels like you are wearing heavy armor. Not reducing the costs of physical activities so you can roll around like someone without armor.
I think its more than fair for heavy armor to also get a stamina cost reduction. And if you actually tried out heavy armor in the great land of cyrodil you'd find out that you don't last as long as you should in it. The idea of heavy armor = protection and nothing more is more than invalidated by the existence of light armor trait spell pen, the fact that almost every good attack in the game is a spell, and now medium armor will get that stamina cost reduction meaning they will last a hellava lot longer than you while doing more damage via critical attacks, still being able to use the only thing people level up heavy armor to get and make it cost less stamina to boot.
I see only a very long way to go in their changes and heavy armor needs love for combat too in more ways than armor.
Block reduction i will agree with, but not base stamina ability reduction. Heavy armor is suppose to be all about health management and survival, not the ability to spam stamina cost abilities like a medium armor user. If heavy armor was locked to classes, i would agree with you, but it is not. You are suppose to use light armor for magicka, medium for stamina, and heavy for health.
If you feel like you need more stamina regen or reduction while tanking, go 5 heavy 2 medium, or whatever. That is the way this game is set up. I don't understand why people are wanting to be able to toss on 7/7 one armor type and have the exact blend of everything they need.
Medium armor was suppose to be the stamina set, but was lacking in the resource management area due to the fact that the roll and CC break costs scale with max. The addition of reduction was added to help with this.
Heavy armor is suppose to be the health and survival augment, so stop trying to make it a jack of all trades, everything augment.0 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Medium Armor
- With the Wind Walker passive, medium armor will reduce stamina costs by 2% per piece equipped.
Cost of what? Everything?
Is this on top of the 2% Regen? Or instead of?
This is on top of the 2% Stamina regen, and the 2% stamina cost reduction is for all abilities that cost stamina (per piece equipped, so a total of 14% possible stamina cost reduction.)
Looks like I will definitely be switching to medium armor. Heavy armor really needs to get a 14% stamina cost reduction too tho.
Heavy armor, other than being more protective, is the "increase overall weapon damage" armor without raising crit. Its not even a big increase either unless you are using immovable brute with it.
No it doesn't. Heavy is suppose to last long enough that you don't need it. Stop asking for a stamina reduction or regeneration. You should be asking for your armor and mitigation to be buffed to the point where it actually feels like you are wearing heavy armor. Not reducing the costs of physical activities so you can roll around like someone without armor.
I think its more than fair for heavy armor to also get a stamina cost reduction. And if you actually tried out heavy armor in the great land of cyrodil you'd find out that you don't last as long as you should in it. The idea of heavy armor = protection and nothing more is more than invalidated by the existence of light armor trait spell pen, the fact that almost every good attack in the game is a spell, and now medium armor will get that stamina cost reduction meaning they will last a hellava lot longer than you while doing more damage via critical attacks, still being able to use the only thing people level up heavy armor to get and make it cost less stamina to boot.
I see only a very long way to go in their changes and heavy armor needs love for combat too in more ways than armor.
Block reduction i will agree with, but not base stamina ability reduction. Heavy armor is suppose to be all about health management and survival, not the ability to spam stamina cost abilities like a medium armor user. If heavy armor was locked to classes, i would agree with you, but it is not. You are suppose to use light armor for magicka, medium for stamina, and heavy for health.
If you feel like you need more stamina regen or reduction while tanking, go 5 heavy 2 medium, or whatever. That is the way this game is set up. I don't understand why people are wanting to be able to toss on 7/7 one armor type and have the exact blend of everything they need.
Medium armor was suppose to be the stamina set, but was lacking in the resource management area due to the fact that the roll and CC break costs scale with max. The addition of reduction was added to help with this.
Heavy armor is suppose to be the health and survival augment, so stop trying to make it a jack of all trades, everything augment.
You only feel that heavy is supposed to be the health and survival argument, but the mere existence of a weapon damage increase on heavy armor disagrees with your desire to pigeonhole armor types. It can and should do more than that.Edited by demonlkojipub19_ESO on June 21, 2014 8:02PM0 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »No no no. Heavy armor is for health, not stamina or magicka. You are suppose to SURVIVE long enough to not need that regeneration or reduction of costs. Increase the healing taken, health regeneration and add a restore health on block or melee hit or something. From the beginning there has been 3 resource bars and 3 armor types. Changing heavy to be a mix of benefits for all 3 resources (health, magicka, stamina) will ruin the game. It will no longer be a choice of which stat to I go down, it will be everyone in heavy because it offers the best of all 3.Trayyacakes wrote: »This is a mistake. ESO is an elder scrolls game and a fantasy mmo. To have a fantasy mmo without the 2 handed Heavy Armor Damage Dealer being viable is unacceptable. No one cares about health regen. Health regen will not save you. 50 hp every 2 sec in combat does nothing when you are solo, and it is not noticeable in group content with healers. Heavy armor DD's should not get the burst that medium and light armor DD's receive because they get added survival, but they should do the same sustained damage over long fights. ditch the health regen bonus on heavy, and give it half the regen that medium gets for stamina and half the regen that light gets for magicka so it can sustain a level damage output. Don't give Heavy armor a crit bonus. Give them a percentage increase to ALL damage dealt, not spell damage or weapon power just damage. That way the number is easier to control/tweak for balance. To say that if you wear heavy armor you have to do less damage than everyone because you take more hits is wrong. There are hard dps checks in pve, and if I want to dps for those boss fights as a HA 2H DD I should have the option to do so. In PVP burst is king, so if you don't put any crit on heavy, the burst will not be there and it can be properly balanced.Did you even fully read what I typed, not just the regen, buff the healing received. Increase the protection it provides. You go on this rant about how fantasy MMOs, but this is an ELDER SCROLLS game foremost. Heavy has always been the take less damage health buff in TES. All stamina regen or magicka regen has no place on heavy...If you read what i have been saying, i am not disagreeing with buffing juggernaut or other means of damage. I am all for heavy being a slow hard hitter, but they should not have the same stamina/magicka reductions/regeneration that allow them to spam abilities, If that happens, heavy armor will become the "hybrid" armor for people that use both stamina and magicka, light armor and medium armor will be overwhelmed.
Stop looking to improve the armor to be something it was never meant to be, start looking to improve the armor for what it already has.
You want a stronger in combat health perk than regeneration? Several people have suggested this, and this in my opinion is the best way to do this, offer returned health on successful block or interrupt.
If you want to make it more of an ELDER SCROLLS game then we can just take the crit chance off of medium armor. It isn't present in skyrim. Neither is the reduced cost of stamina skills either.
Or we can just leave what happens in other ES games out of this since it is not a single player ES games, because being exactly like them actually means ruining balance, because they are single player games. MMO =|single player when it comes to balance effects.
That example does not even make sense, there are no weapon skills in skyrim.
I am all for removing the crit from medium if it means that medium picks up the same % of armor pen that light gets for spell pen.
Also, stop deleting the start of your code for quoting, it is making it a nightmare for anyone to read this and track what is being said.0 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I didn't delete the code, the guy I quoted did. He fixed it afterword. And you are right it doesnt make since to try to make it like other elder scrolls games. This includes everything before skyrim as well, because X Y or Z that exists in ESO doesn't exist in any of those either.Edited by demonlkojipub19_ESO on June 21, 2014 8:09PM0
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Lyall84✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Medium Armor
- With the Wind Walker passive, medium armor will reduce stamina costs by 2% per piece equipped.
Cost of what? Everything?
Is this on top of the 2% Regen? Or instead of?
This is on top of the 2% Stamina regen, and the 2% stamina cost reduction is for all abilities that cost stamina (per piece equipped, so a total of 14% possible stamina cost reduction.)
Looks like I will definitely be switching to medium armor. Heavy armor really needs to get a 14% stamina cost reduction too tho.
Heavy armor, other than being more protective, is the "increase overall weapon damage" armor without raising crit. Its not even a big increase either unless you are using immovable brute with it.
No it doesn't. Heavy is suppose to last long enough that you don't need it. Stop asking for a stamina reduction or regeneration. You should be asking for your armor and mitigation to be buffed to the point where it actually feels like you are wearing heavy armor. Not reducing the costs of physical activities so you can roll around like someone without armor.
I think its more than fair for heavy armor to also get a stamina cost reduction. And if you actually tried out heavy armor in the great land of cyrodil you'd find out that you don't last as long as you should in it. The idea of heavy armor = protection and nothing more is more than invalidated by the existence of light armor trait spell pen, the fact that almost every good attack in the game is a spell, and now medium armor will get that stamina cost reduction meaning they will last a hellava lot longer than you while doing more damage via critical attacks, still being able to use the only thing people level up heavy armor to get and make it cost less stamina to boot.
I see only a very long way to go in their changes and heavy armor needs love for combat too in more ways than armor.
Block reduction i will agree with, but not base stamina ability reduction. Heavy armor is suppose to be all about health management and survival, not the ability to spam stamina cost abilities like a medium armor user. If heavy armor was locked to classes, i would agree with you, but it is not. You are suppose to use light armor for magicka, medium for stamina, and heavy for health.
If you feel like you need more stamina regen or reduction while tanking, go 5 heavy 2 medium, or whatever. That is the way this game is set up. I don't understand why people are wanting to be able to toss on 7/7 one armor type and have the exact blend of everything they need.
Medium armor was suppose to be the stamina set, but was lacking in the resource management area due to the fact that the roll and CC break costs scale with max. The addition of reduction was added to help with this.
Heavy armor is suppose to be the health and survival augment, so stop trying to make it a jack of all trades, everything augment.
You only feel that heavy is supposed to be the health and survival argument, but the mere existence of a weapon damage increase on heavy armor disagrees with your desire to pigeonhole armor types. It can and should do more than that.
I dont feel that way, the passives tell me that,
Heavy Armor
Resolve - Increases Armor by 3% and base Spell Resist by 3% for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped. Max bonus 21% Armor, 21% Spell Resist (shows as the actual value in game, even though the character sheet does not show how much that value actually helps).
Constitution - Increases Health Recovery by 4% per piece of Heavy Armor equipped. Max bonus 28%.
Juggernaut - Increases Weapon Damage with melee attacks by 1% per piece of Heavy Armor equipped. Max bonus 7%.
Bracing - Decreases cost of blocking by 20% when a Heavy Armor set of 5 or more pieces is equipped.
Rapid Mending - Increases healing received by 1% per piece of Heavy Armor equipped. Max bonus 7%.
That is 4 out of 5 passives dealing directly with health recovery (be it healing or regeneration) or survival (be it armor/spell resistance or block reduction) vs 1 passive dealing with damage.
You are the one pigeonholing yourself by thinking just because you want to tank or wear heavy armor you have to be 7/7 and get everything. This game from the get go was set up for light to augment magicka and spell damage, medium to augment stamina and physical damage, and heavy to augment health and survival.
How can you look at 5 passive skills and point to the only one that helps with damage and think that they intended heavy armor to be a serious source of damage? The other 4 point the other direction. That one offensive passive is there to help keep the balance so that heavy armor users can still kill things in a reasonable time, not quickly like a caster or assassin.0 -
The_Drexill✭✭✭✭I think the major flaw with weapon skills is the lack of any time damage abilities.
As a mage type (since it's the only way to play right now) I can spam crushing shock over and over again... and the damage is great. If I spam Cleave over and over again the damage is absurdly low, because the DoT overwrites itself... you're effectively hitting for 40% of the skills damage.
Uppercut's long cast time makes it simple to move away from the person using it, making them effectively worthless. Compare that to something like Impulse (Which SHOULD have a cast time) which hits for slightly less than Uppercut, but can be used 3 times as fast while moving full speed with the target as they run... and hitting their friends at the same time. If you keep the cast time, wrecking blow needs to be able to buff it's own damage.
It's honestly easy to see from a Developer stand point, and us beta testers gave plenty of feedback.Brandizzle - NB
Drexill The Unbreakable - Sorc
For teh covenant.2 -
Lyall84✭✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »I didn't delete the code, the guy I quoted did. He fixed it afterword. And you are right it doesnt make since to try to make it like other elder scrolls games. This includes everything before skyrim as well, because X Y or Z that exists in ESO doesn't exist in any of those either.
Sorry about that then. Didn't notice it was him not you. Even if you take the other elder scrolls games out of the equation, you have to look at all the passives as a hole for each armor.
Light armor for magicka and spells
Medium armor for stamina and abilities
Heavy armor has 4 passives for health and survival, 1 for damage. There is no way that this is suppose to be a serious damage dealing set with only 1 damage augmenting passive.
Like I said before. If this was any other game, where heavy armor was locked to a class, I would agree with you. But because you can mix and match all you want, there is no way that heavy armor should have stamina or magicka regen or reductions on it. If you want that regeneration or reduction, you should be swapping out a piece for light or medium.0