Improvements for Stamina-Based Skills and Passives

Lyall84

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Ok I have a question for everyone who thinks Heavy armor should be only for health/defense/tanking. Do you propose a nerf be made to all class skills(which use magicka) and raise a players armor by a substantial amount? Do you think tanking in light armor should not be viable?

I personally have no problem with someone who wants to tank in light armor and use class skills to buff there armor, and without nerfing those class skills if you don't put some form of resource management on heavy armor the light armor tank will be better than the heavy armor tank.

you can argue that as heavy you don't have to uses the slots the light armor tank uses on defensive abilities, and you would be correct, but it doesn't matter that the Heavy armor tank gets an extra ability slot to provide dps or damage because that extra slot is a waste because Heavy armor wearers have no resource management and will not be able to use that "extra ability" very often anyway.

Keeping this in mind. From a PVP perspective Heavy Armor gives you nothing! not increased survival or damage because light armor users in order to not get destroyed by stamina builds are going to have an ability on their bar that raises their armor and have way more dps than a heavy armor user while having the survivability of a heavy armor user.

I also assume that the people who think heavy armor should only be for tanking also think that someone should not be able to tank in medium or light armor. correct? How would you stop this from occurring?

You're providing an inefficient proposal for the opposite side of your argument. I would propose a nerf to the defensive capability of light armor. The amount of spell resistance it gets on top of the access to more uses of magicka based defensive spells is way too much atm.

One should be able to obtain a level of defensiveness in light armor through their magicka abilities used but it should come at a cost to damage potential just like everyone else, and shouldn't be as potent as one who dedicates more of their skill points and armor into a more defensive route, ie heavy armor and 1h/shield.

On a side note I don't think heavy armor should be only for tanking, just not as good at dps as the dps armor trees. And likewise I'd also personally like to see medium armor and light armor tanks floating around if they so choose, but they wouldn't be as good as one who totally devotes themselves to the more defensive armor tree. And of course they'd have to be balanced to do less damage than a pure damage dealer of that armor type but that's for the devs to come up with.

EDIT: On a side note, here's a thread I put in the guild skills forum that could be of much relevance to upping stamina based dps to on-par with magicka.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/112807/fighter-s-guild-this-needs-to-be-equivalent-to-mage-s-guild-to-magicka-users?new=1

I looked at your thread and I agree with that 100%

When you say heavy armor should not be able to dps as well as light or medium please elaborate.

I personally think that if I want to play as a 2H heavy armor character, you know like a knight. I should not be an anchor for my group to carry through trials. I should be able to hit the numbers I need for dps checks. It should be based on skill/player.

And PVP wise in order for HA to be balanced with the others the defense increase would need to be enormous because HA users will burn through their magicka rather quickly trying to kill their attackers. They can't use stamina attacks for fear of not being able to block a cc and getting destroyed. Then what does a heavy armor user do after his cc's were blocked, and he is out of magicka? light attack?

Thejollygreenone please don't think I'm trying to be an A-hole here. I enjoy the debating as long as it stays civil and think you make good points in your posts.

I understand the high defense low output point which is why I think giving crit of any kind to HA would be absolutely dumb. Having HA be able to do good sustained dps should not be out of the question. Giving them any extra burst would be terrible.

As far as the arguments against putting ANY resource management on HA. ESO was suppose to be play like you want. I realize some builds will always out perform others, but Why can't a Templar Heal in Heavy? Why can't a Dragon Knight dps in Heavy with a 2h? These aren't crazy builds by any means, and should be viable.

Look at my suggestions for changes to heavy, increase juggernaut, make it effect all weapon skills, including destro and resto staffs and bows. Leave the stamina/magicka regen out of it. Heavy armor is suppose to augment HEALTH. Light for magicka, and medium for stamina.

You can get that extra sustained damage by correcting juggernaut and immovable. If you start adding stamina/magicka regeneration or reduction you take a way the point of play as you want.

The play as you want portion is about not locking your class into a role or forcing you to one gear type. You get to chose if you want to be a heavy tank, or a medium stamina build or a light magicka build, or you can even mix and match the armor to play a hybrid style.

No one is crying for light armor to have more stamina options, or medium armor to have more magicka options. Only for them to be comparable for what they are clearly designed to do. Heavy is clearly designed to be tanky and health augmenting. For some reason every heavy wearing person on this thread somehow thinks that they are locked into heavy armor (for looks or whatever who knows) and so therefore heavy armor should be a blend of magicka and stamina. But you are forgetting that this game is built on triangles.

3 prime stats
3 armor types, one for each stat
3 factions
3 points on character creation sliders.

I know it sounds stupid, but the game is about a 3 way balance. The heavy users on this thread keep treating it like it is a stamina vs magicka debate and somehow they are being kept out of both parties. Wake up, you are wearing the health set, you have your own party.

Yes, it has issues. Yes, it needs help. Yes, it should be a priority to buff.

But NO, it should not include stamina or magicka related bonuses with the exception of block reduction. Hell, I am even for making juggernaut be 2% per piece for 14% total, and making it effect ALL outgoing damage, be it class or weapon skill. Do the same thing to the immovable morph, the one that currently adds 1% melee per piece of heavy? Make that morph do 2% of all outgoing damage per heavy.

I am not saying that heavy does not deserve to be able to do damage. I am saying that changing the basic form of how each armor is set up just because you want your heavy armor to be perfect is not the correct way to do it.

Don't get me wrong. I like tanking, my secondary spec is everything for heavy and S&S so when I go into dungeons I have to option of tanking. Even carry a heavy set with me. But the heavy armor is for taking heavy damage, the light/medium armor is for dealing it. I feel your issues with resource management, but at the same time if blocking is your reason for needing more stamina, there is already a reduced block passive. Start pulling to increase that, not break the foundations of the other armor trees.

Put on a piece of light or two, people say it will not be enough, but how do you know if you don't even try it first. I do not understand why everyone seems to think it is all or nothing. Or they seem to think play as you want means throw on light armor and tank, or medium armor and cast spells, or heavy armor and dps. It means you can make your role choice and play as you want without have to get a new character. The choices are in the gear. Trying to make heavy armor dps when it is suppose to be the tank choice just muddies up the choices to make.

Do the choices need to be balanced out? Yes. But heavy armor, no matter how you look at it. 80% of the passives scream tank and survival (even if they are not strong enough and require tuning) and only 20% of the passives say anything about damage, while yes, they are weak at the moment, it is obvious to anyone that is not so deeply entrenched in the idea that they HAVE to wear heavy armor, that heavy is strictly for survival.

Lyall84

cgerhardtutoringub17_ESO wrote: »

My two cents (long post):

From my experience with the game (i have been playing since Beta) and its skill lines, I believe the design behind weapon skill lines and "stamina builds" were meant to be based upon using light/heavy attacks primarily with skills to be used as fillers/buffs. Whereas, Magicka builds were based upon using skills with light/heavy attack fillers.

This can be seen in the skills in the DW, 2H, and bow skill lines. Many of the skills have a dot attached and/or provide some sort of benefit for their usage, i.e. poison status effect, snare, root, bleed, stun, haste, range extender.

However, these are my thoughts on what was intended and not what currently exists. It is currently not possible to effectively use weapon skills to buff yourself/debuff your enemy and use light/heavy attacks efficiently as ones primary source of damage. Weapon attacks DO NOT do enough damage per attack.

IMHO weapon attacks need to be scaled up. Fix this first, then see if stamina costs need tinkering and which armor trait truly needs it. For instance, if weapon attacks did more damage and you could DPS competitively using the above mentioned model then medium armor would not need a stamina cost reduction.

On the topic of Heavy Armor Tanking (which i have not had the experience of using), I believe it will need some sort of Stamina management option. Best option would probably be to add Stamina cost reduction to 1H/S or a Stamina Recharge on successful Shield Block (similar to restoration staffs 10% magicka gain from heavy attack).

Lastly, I believe any class skill that utilizes weapon critical should also use weapon power to calculate its damage and not spell power. This just seems really odd to me and does not allow for great synergy between a weapon centric build and class skills. Examples of this are veiled strike, assassin's blade, biting jabs, etc.

Add a cost reduction to blocking, base damage increase or whatever to heavy. But adding any type of stamina or magicka reduction or regeneration takes away from the other armors.

Heavy armor is suppose to be the Health armor, not the stamina armor, not the magicka armor.

Shaun98ca2

Lyall84 wrote: »

cgerhardtutoringub17_ESO wrote: »

My two cents (long post):

From my experience with the game (i have been playing since Beta) and its skill lines, I believe the design behind weapon skill lines and "stamina builds" were meant to be based upon using light/heavy attacks primarily with skills to be used as fillers/buffs. Whereas, Magicka builds were based upon using skills with light/heavy attack fillers.

This can be seen in the skills in the DW, 2H, and bow skill lines. Many of the skills have a dot attached and/or provide some sort of benefit for their usage, i.e. poison status effect, snare, root, bleed, stun, haste, range extender.

However, these are my thoughts on what was intended and not what currently exists. It is currently not possible to effectively use weapon skills to buff yourself/debuff your enemy and use light/heavy attacks efficiently as ones primary source of damage. Weapon attacks DO NOT do enough damage per attack.

IMHO weapon attacks need to be scaled up. Fix this first, then see if stamina costs need tinkering and which armor trait truly needs it. For instance, if weapon attacks did more damage and you could DPS competitively using the above mentioned model then medium armor would not need a stamina cost reduction.

On the topic of Heavy Armor Tanking (which i have not had the experience of using), I believe it will need some sort of Stamina management option. Best option would probably be to add Stamina cost reduction to 1H/S or a Stamina Recharge on successful Shield Block (similar to restoration staffs 10% magicka gain from heavy attack).

Lastly, I believe any class skill that utilizes weapon critical should also use weapon power to calculate its damage and not spell power. This just seems really odd to me and does not allow for great synergy between a weapon centric build and class skills. Examples of this are veiled strike, assassin's blade, biting jabs, etc.

Add a cost reduction to blocking, base damage increase or whatever to heavy. But adding any type of stamina or magicka reduction or regeneration takes away from the other armors.

Heavy armor is suppose to be the Health armor, not the stamina armor, not the magicka armor.

Heavy armor already gets a discount for blocks, you mean increase the discount?

Sakiri

Lyall84 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Not an exaggeration. "almost impossible to kill" should be the aim of heavy armor as I heard, and that would certainly accomplish that. A silly armor boost wont cut it, because the armor overcharges already, with green armor. The current armor and resistances are a joke.

Or we can just go forth with a offensive boost rather than full on defensive boost. If you think a tiny defensive boost would be suitable when all other armor types get all kinds of FAR more appealing trait bonuses you need to think again.

63% damage reduction on top of the already high armor would make it beyond almost impossible to full on impossible. 4-5% per piece for 28% to 35% reduction is reasonable.

Going back to the offensive increases defeats the purpose of the armor. It is suppose to be heavy armor for heavy protection, not damage powerhouse. You keep going back to the offensive boost well like someone that is forced to wear heavy based on their class choice. The heavy armor is suppose to be the defensive option not the offensive one. You keep making the offensive argument then point to the far more appealing traits for light and medium. You need to stop doing that. If the defensive traits are not appealing enough for you on heavy armor, you should be campaigning to make them appealing defensively, not try and re-write the entire concept of the armor to undermine the other two armor types.

If youre okay with the current damage reduction of heavy, then breathing on a person in cloth should kill them.

How did agreeing with that guys suggested implementation of a 4-5% damage reduction per piece of heavy somehow equal me being OK with current damage reduction of heavy?

Lost me on that one. The entire time I have been pointing out that the amount of physical protection that light and even medium provides compared to heavy is off. Either heavy needs a boost, or light/medium need a nerf.

What I got from your post was what they suggested is too high. Im disputing that.

The 9% they were asking for is way too much. 4-5% is more reasonable, 3% would seem light to me though. At 9% per piece, that would be a 63% damage reduction to the damage already reduced by their current armor/spell resistance. You would not be able to kill them, dragon knights in particular, if you added a 63% damage reduction to heavy like that. I do agree a buff needs to be there, but suddenly taking a 2/3 damage reduction is way too much.

Hard cap is 50% and softcap is around 35%.

Start thinking from that. Blocking is 50% reduction.

Problem lies in armor being useless.

Unsure what they can do to fix it without outright preventing light from hitting armor cap.

PvP will never be balanced, and need to remove armor pen from VR mobs.

Sakiri

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

So I see a LOT of people suggesting move Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break to a "separate" resource.

This a TERRIBLE idea.

Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break would more commonly be used by a Stamina build than a Magicka build.

Having it on a separate resource does absolutely nothing for balance as now the almight Maigcka build get free Stamina points to dump towards even more DPS PLUS the increased survivability of the new resource.

This in the long run screws a Stamina build as they NEED that increased Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break cause they ARE in the mix of combat needing to use it.

You can go forth and greatly increase the damage a Stamina build does but this again just favors Magicka builds as its just another resource dump for them on top of their already good DPS.

how does stamina get increased CC break over magicka. It uses 30% of your max stamina, regardless of your build type. So if you are a magicka build with 1200 stamina, CC break uses roughly 400 stamina. If you are a stamina build with 1800 stamina, CC break uses roughly 600 stamina.

That is why they make the argument to at least separate the CC break cost to something else. Because for stamina users it uses WAY too much of their primary damage resource while magicka users could not care less how much it costs.

CC Break along with Block Dodge Stun are percentages off of BASE Stamina that is BEFORE points in Stamina and enchantments towards Stamina.

Tell that to my stam build dk thats out of stamina if I have to break cc more than once a fight.

Block/dodge are base.
CC break is max.

The intent was to not give anyone an advantage in breaking cc, but give points in stamina let you block/dodge more.

Then I guess learn NOT to break CC????? Block?

Whenever my Stamina build breaks CC its usually no sweat like hardly dents my pool at all.

I dont think you understand what we mean by CC break, we don't mean roll, or block the CC, we mean, after you are hit by it and immobile, you basically bash (hold right mouse, click left mouse) and it ends the CC prematurely, and you get little white swirly things around your feet showing that you broke out of CC.

That costs 30% of your max, not base stamina. Period. You appear to be the only person that does not seem to notice that.

Your right on my Stamina build I haven't noticed it taking 30%. I don't use addons to track so I guestamate. Doesn't seem like 30%, plus I heard back in beta all those Stamina things were changed to base instead max %.

Its the only thing afaik on max stamina. Its to keep cc break a major decision in pvp.

Thejollygreenone

May I just add, I feel all this heavy armor talk is best moved do a different thread and sub forum.

If we all can agree that light armor is magicka based, medium armor is stamina based, and heavy armor is health points based, then so much talk about heavy armor doesn't quite belong in a forum post about improvements to stamina.

Basically my thoughts are: if medium armor has been agreed upon as the stamina armor tree, while heavy armor has its own thing, then talk about improving heavy armor should require it's own developer post for these comments to fit better.

Until a developer post can be made, creating a forum post under the correct category is the intended process, as far as I know. I would just like to see posts in this thread more focused on the areas of changes listed in this thread, that being medium armor/stamina dps weapon(bow, dw, 2h) skill trees.

Sakiri

Lyall84 wrote: »

cgerhardtutoringub17_ESO wrote: »

My two cents (long post):

From my experience with the game (i have been playing since Beta) and its skill lines, I believe the design behind weapon skill lines and "stamina builds" were meant to be based upon using light/heavy attacks primarily with skills to be used as fillers/buffs. Whereas, Magicka builds were based upon using skills with light/heavy attack fillers.

This can be seen in the skills in the DW, 2H, and bow skill lines. Many of the skills have a dot attached and/or provide some sort of benefit for their usage, i.e. poison status effect, snare, root, bleed, stun, haste, range extender.

However, these are my thoughts on what was intended and not what currently exists. It is currently not possible to effectively use weapon skills to buff yourself/debuff your enemy and use light/heavy attacks efficiently as ones primary source of damage. Weapon attacks DO NOT do enough damage per attack.

IMHO weapon attacks need to be scaled up. Fix this first, then see if stamina costs need tinkering and which armor trait truly needs it. For instance, if weapon attacks did more damage and you could DPS competitively using the above mentioned model then medium armor would not need a stamina cost reduction.

On the topic of Heavy Armor Tanking (which i have not had the experience of using), I believe it will need some sort of Stamina management option. Best option would probably be to add Stamina cost reduction to 1H/S or a Stamina Recharge on successful Shield Block (similar to restoration staffs 10% magicka gain from heavy attack).

Lastly, I believe any class skill that utilizes weapon critical should also use weapon power to calculate its damage and not spell power. This just seems really odd to me and does not allow for great synergy between a weapon centric build and class skills. Examples of this are veiled strike, assassin's blade, biting jabs, etc.

Add a cost reduction to blocking, base damage increase or whatever to heavy. But adding any type of stamina or magicka reduction or regeneration takes away from the other armors.

Heavy armor is suppose to be the Health armor, not the stamina armor, not the magicka armor.

Just for a pov change, remember its a TES game.

Fully enchanted heavy was one of the most popular options, even with mages.

Shaun98ca2

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

May I just add, I feel all this heavy armor talk is best moved do a different thread and sub forum.

If we all can agree that light armor is magicka based, medium armor is stamina based, and heavy armor is health points based, then so much talk about heavy armor doesn't quite belong in a forum post about improvements to stamina.

Basically my thoughts are: if medium armor has been agreed upon as the stamina armor tree, while heavy armor has its own thing, then talk about improving heavy armor should require it's own developer post for these comments to fit better.

Until a developer post can be made, creating a forum post under the correct category is the intended process, as far as I know. I would just like to see posts in this thread more focused on the areas of changes listed in this thread, that being medium armor/stamina dps weapon(bow, dw, 2h) skill trees.

MEH no mod jumped it and told us to "stay on topic". They do that you know lol.

The_Drexill

Offensive Scroll bonus also gives Spell Damage... but no Weapon Damage.

Just another way to tell the dev's play casters.

Thejollygreenone

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

May I just add, I feel all this heavy armor talk is best moved do a different thread and sub forum.

If we all can agree that light armor is magicka based, medium armor is stamina based, and heavy armor is health points based, then so much talk about heavy armor doesn't quite belong in a forum post about improvements to stamina.

Basically my thoughts are: if medium armor has been agreed upon as the stamina armor tree, while heavy armor has its own thing, then talk about improving heavy armor should require it's own developer post for these comments to fit better.

Until a developer post can be made, creating a forum post under the correct category is the intended process, as far as I know. I would just like to see posts in this thread more focused on the areas of changes listed in this thread, that being medium armor/stamina dps weapon(bow, dw, 2h) skill trees.

MEH no mod jumped it and told us to "stay on topic". They do that you know lol.

Heh, fair enough. I retain my position though

Lyall84

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

cgerhardtutoringub17_ESO wrote: »

My two cents (long post):

From my experience with the game (i have been playing since Beta) and its skill lines, I believe the design behind weapon skill lines and "stamina builds" were meant to be based upon using light/heavy attacks primarily with skills to be used as fillers/buffs. Whereas, Magicka builds were based upon using skills with light/heavy attack fillers.

This can be seen in the skills in the DW, 2H, and bow skill lines. Many of the skills have a dot attached and/or provide some sort of benefit for their usage, i.e. poison status effect, snare, root, bleed, stun, haste, range extender.

However, these are my thoughts on what was intended and not what currently exists. It is currently not possible to effectively use weapon skills to buff yourself/debuff your enemy and use light/heavy attacks efficiently as ones primary source of damage. Weapon attacks DO NOT do enough damage per attack.

IMHO weapon attacks need to be scaled up. Fix this first, then see if stamina costs need tinkering and which armor trait truly needs it. For instance, if weapon attacks did more damage and you could DPS competitively using the above mentioned model then medium armor would not need a stamina cost reduction.

On the topic of Heavy Armor Tanking (which i have not had the experience of using), I believe it will need some sort of Stamina management option. Best option would probably be to add Stamina cost reduction to 1H/S or a Stamina Recharge on successful Shield Block (similar to restoration staffs 10% magicka gain from heavy attack).

Lastly, I believe any class skill that utilizes weapon critical should also use weapon power to calculate its damage and not spell power. This just seems really odd to me and does not allow for great synergy between a weapon centric build and class skills. Examples of this are veiled strike, assassin's blade, biting jabs, etc.

Add a cost reduction to blocking, base damage increase or whatever to heavy. But adding any type of stamina or magicka reduction or regeneration takes away from the other armors.

Heavy armor is suppose to be the Health armor, not the stamina armor, not the magicka armor.

Heavy armor already gets a discount for blocks, you mean increase the discount?

If people are complaining about needing more stam to block more, yes.

Lyall84

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Not an exaggeration. "almost impossible to kill" should be the aim of heavy armor as I heard, and that would certainly accomplish that. A silly armor boost wont cut it, because the armor overcharges already, with green armor. The current armor and resistances are a joke.

Or we can just go forth with a offensive boost rather than full on defensive boost. If you think a tiny defensive boost would be suitable when all other armor types get all kinds of FAR more appealing trait bonuses you need to think again.

63% damage reduction on top of the already high armor would make it beyond almost impossible to full on impossible. 4-5% per piece for 28% to 35% reduction is reasonable.

Going back to the offensive increases defeats the purpose of the armor. It is suppose to be heavy armor for heavy protection, not damage powerhouse. You keep going back to the offensive boost well like someone that is forced to wear heavy based on their class choice. The heavy armor is suppose to be the defensive option not the offensive one. You keep making the offensive argument then point to the far more appealing traits for light and medium. You need to stop doing that. If the defensive traits are not appealing enough for you on heavy armor, you should be campaigning to make them appealing defensively, not try and re-write the entire concept of the armor to undermine the other two armor types.

If youre okay with the current damage reduction of heavy, then breathing on a person in cloth should kill them.

How did agreeing with that guys suggested implementation of a 4-5% damage reduction per piece of heavy somehow equal me being OK with current damage reduction of heavy?

Lost me on that one. The entire time I have been pointing out that the amount of physical protection that light and even medium provides compared to heavy is off. Either heavy needs a boost, or light/medium need a nerf.

What I got from your post was what they suggested is too high. Im disputing that.

The 9% they were asking for is way too much. 4-5% is more reasonable, 3% would seem light to me though. At 9% per piece, that would be a 63% damage reduction to the damage already reduced by their current armor/spell resistance. You would not be able to kill them, dragon knights in particular, if you added a 63% damage reduction to heavy like that. I do agree a buff needs to be there, but suddenly taking a 2/3 damage reduction is way too much.

Hard cap is 50% and softcap is around 35%.

Start thinking from that. Blocking is 50% reduction.

Problem lies in armor being useless.

Unsure what they can do to fix it without outright preventing light from hitting armor cap.

PvP will never be balanced, and need to remove armor pen from VR mobs.

That is exactly what they need to do. Light armor should not be anywhere near that cap. The caps either need to be raised so heavy gets full benefit of being heavy, or the need to adjust the formula so light cannot get near the soft cap, medium can get there using buffs, but no where near the hard cap. The soft cap should be hit just by being in heavy armor, and hard cap using buffs.

Lyall84

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

cgerhardtutoringub17_ESO wrote: »

My two cents (long post):

From my experience with the game (i have been playing since Beta) and its skill lines, I believe the design behind weapon skill lines and "stamina builds" were meant to be based upon using light/heavy attacks primarily with skills to be used as fillers/buffs. Whereas, Magicka builds were based upon using skills with light/heavy attack fillers.

This can be seen in the skills in the DW, 2H, and bow skill lines. Many of the skills have a dot attached and/or provide some sort of benefit for their usage, i.e. poison status effect, snare, root, bleed, stun, haste, range extender.

However, these are my thoughts on what was intended and not what currently exists. It is currently not possible to effectively use weapon skills to buff yourself/debuff your enemy and use light/heavy attacks efficiently as ones primary source of damage. Weapon attacks DO NOT do enough damage per attack.

IMHO weapon attacks need to be scaled up. Fix this first, then see if stamina costs need tinkering and which armor trait truly needs it. For instance, if weapon attacks did more damage and you could DPS competitively using the above mentioned model then medium armor would not need a stamina cost reduction.

On the topic of Heavy Armor Tanking (which i have not had the experience of using), I believe it will need some sort of Stamina management option. Best option would probably be to add Stamina cost reduction to 1H/S or a Stamina Recharge on successful Shield Block (similar to restoration staffs 10% magicka gain from heavy attack).

Lastly, I believe any class skill that utilizes weapon critical should also use weapon power to calculate its damage and not spell power. This just seems really odd to me and does not allow for great synergy between a weapon centric build and class skills. Examples of this are veiled strike, assassin's blade, biting jabs, etc.

Add a cost reduction to blocking, base damage increase or whatever to heavy. But adding any type of stamina or magicka reduction or regeneration takes away from the other armors.

Heavy armor is suppose to be the Health armor, not the stamina armor, not the magicka armor.

Just for a pov change, remember its a TES game.

Fully enchanted heavy was one of the most popular options, even with mages.

Yes, but in TES games, heavy armor regardless of enchants, cost more magicka than using light or cloth.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Lyall84 wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

I have a long list of changes an alterations to each armor type 2 pages back. Each type gets a boost. Look at it and tell me what part of heavy armor changes are too much.

The problem with your list of changes is as follows.

Light Armor: You are completely re-writing the light armor skill line for some reason when it does not need to be touched. It obviously is working fine or otherwise there would not be a million hogwartz students running around complaining about how medium armor is going to get buffed. I will agree that light armor is providing too much physical damage protection, but that is an issue with how armor value as a whole is being calculated, not about the passives it provides.

Medium Armor: You are completely re-writing the class to have all this snare removal and dodge rating, like they are suppose to be some sort of super untouchable dodge tank or unstoppable pvp assassin. If they re-write the entire medium armor skill line, they should make it more comparable to the light armor, but for stamina builds. My suggestion, either remove the critical from the armor, or move it elsewhere, make the first passive 21% reduction to stamina, just like the light armor is 21% to magicka, leave the 2nd regeneration passive. Move the agility dodge roll reduction and sprint speed to 3rd passive. Leave the increased attack speed set bonus 4th passive. 5th passive, either add armor pen, or re-insert critical here, but increase the bonus to be comparable to the 42% spell pen that light gets.

Heavy Armor: I like your changes to resolve, but i think the below 50% health needs to go. just give heavy a straight up 3% per piece reduction (actually 4% in my opinion). You did not add the health regen to your changes, so let me suggest this one, seeing how all other things stat related, health seems to get 50% more than stamina/magicka, this passive does not follow that pattern, make it follow the pattern. Instead of 2%/4% regen per piece, make it 3%/6% per piece. It may not seem like much, but with that 21% (or even 28% if you went 4% per piece) damage reduction, it should be more noticeable. You want both a .5% increase of damage per rank and 2% armor pen, that is overkill. Heavy is suppose to be a defensive set, not offensive one. But I do agree that that it needs help, double the current bonus to 14% (also double the armor line skill ability morph, so that way heavy can do good damage with it up, but not constantly). Rapid mending to reducing stamina? Big mistake. That needs to stay on medium armor only, and off heavy armor. Don't like the amount of healing received? Maybe it needs a boost, maybe it needs to heal based off successful block or interrupt. Either way, rapid mending is just proof that heavy is meant as a tanking, protection armor, not a damage armor. Changing this to stamina or magicka reduction or regeneration undermines the entire purpose of the armor set and having each type be set to a boost the respective stat.

I didn't rewrite anything about light armor. Everything there is an addition. You see it says "Add", not "Change". Those are buffs.

Medium armor additions were for the nimble survivability of medium armor. Being able to dodge better, and dodge further better with their exclusive skill furthers that. And that snare removal was a *** addition to shuffle period. who needs to remove 7 snares who even gets 7 SEPARATE snares on them. Its stupid. and if you use it with an ardent flame dot on you, you're going to stay snared unless you spam it. Movement speed increase servers to negate the effect of snares and snare spam.

The damage increase and armor pen increase of heavy armor isn't overkill, because I also added damage increase to light armor and medium armor which balances it out, not makes heavy better for damage. The armor pen suggested isn't even higher than light armors current spell pen.

All armor types need skill use resource reduction.

murzik54ub17_ESO

well, as some guy mentioned above, the "heavy = hp, medium = stamina, and light = magica"

well main problem is, there is about 15 skills that recover hp, and maybe about 5 skills that recover magica or stamina, that being said, you basically dont get any benefit from having few points of hp regen on heavy armor, since almost every class has acess to multiple healing skills,

i doubt any mage in here would play heavy armor if we got a passive that increased stam/manag regen 1% per armor piece,

Sakiri

Lyall84 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

cgerhardtutoringub17_ESO wrote: »

My two cents (long post):

From my experience with the game (i have been playing since Beta) and its skill lines, I believe the design behind weapon skill lines and "stamina builds" were meant to be based upon using light/heavy attacks primarily with skills to be used as fillers/buffs. Whereas, Magicka builds were based upon using skills with light/heavy attack fillers.

This can be seen in the skills in the DW, 2H, and bow skill lines. Many of the skills have a dot attached and/or provide some sort of benefit for their usage, i.e. poison status effect, snare, root, bleed, stun, haste, range extender.

However, these are my thoughts on what was intended and not what currently exists. It is currently not possible to effectively use weapon skills to buff yourself/debuff your enemy and use light/heavy attacks efficiently as ones primary source of damage. Weapon attacks DO NOT do enough damage per attack.

IMHO weapon attacks need to be scaled up. Fix this first, then see if stamina costs need tinkering and which armor trait truly needs it. For instance, if weapon attacks did more damage and you could DPS competitively using the above mentioned model then medium armor would not need a stamina cost reduction.

On the topic of Heavy Armor Tanking (which i have not had the experience of using), I believe it will need some sort of Stamina management option. Best option would probably be to add Stamina cost reduction to 1H/S or a Stamina Recharge on successful Shield Block (similar to restoration staffs 10% magicka gain from heavy attack).

Lastly, I believe any class skill that utilizes weapon critical should also use weapon power to calculate its damage and not spell power. This just seems really odd to me and does not allow for great synergy between a weapon centric build and class skills. Examples of this are veiled strike, assassin's blade, biting jabs, etc.

Add a cost reduction to blocking, base damage increase or whatever to heavy. But adding any type of stamina or magicka reduction or regeneration takes away from the other armors.

Heavy armor is suppose to be the Health armor, not the stamina armor, not the magicka armor.

Just for a pov change, remember its a TES game.

Fully enchanted heavy was one of the most popular options, even with mages.

Yes, but in TES games, heavy armor regardless of enchants, cost more magicka than using light or cloth.

Yes, but Im also not calling for regen. Id prefer being able to kill it before Im out, not waiting for it to come back.

SpeedySteve

ZOS,
-Adding stamina cost reduction to medium armor is an enormous step in the right direction for overall class/spec balance. I couldn't be happier to see this. Thank you.

-Increasing the damage on Flurry is also a step in the right direction on the redemption of what many regard to be a worthless ability. However, my honest opinion is that this (extremely small) change won't have any concrete effect on gameplay. The ability will still remain entirely unused in VR ranks due to the fact that "weaving" light attacks with instant abilities is significantly more effective *and* efficient. In light of this, I strongly encourage you to consider what I regard to the be best and only possibility for saving Flurry that does not significantly alter its mechanics: Give Flurry a distinctive use by making it a highly inefficient "burn" ability. Increase its damage by roughly 50% while doubling its stamina cost (or something comparable). This will mean that the ability can never be sustained for any length of time, but it will at least offer DW users an actual "burst" DPS option for PvP, etc.

-I'm fully in favor of the changes to Snipe. Beware, however, that reducing its cast time to 2 seconds will allow for its use in conjunction with the Nightblade's Shadowy Disguise. I'm not sure if that's already been foreseen or not, but I bring it up because it is the type of combination that could significantly unbalance the PvP playing field.

ShiftControl

Bow: Snipe
Snipe’s cast time will be reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.
Snipe’s maximum range will be reduced from 40 meters to 35 meters.
Snipe’s minimum range will be reduced from 20 meters to 10 meters.

Snipe is one the worst skills in the bow line, absolutely useless in PVE and 90% of time the terrible in PvP as well. By time it goes off the target is in Riften already.
My suggestion is make it instant cast or a 1 sec cast with 2-3 sec CD so we can't spam it In PVP. In this case the PvE guys would slot it as well.
The range is short don't make it even shorter.
The min range to 10 is fine got to think about a boss fight and in this case the bow wielder can stay within healing range.
the range of the Snipe should be equal or > then bolt escape.
Aslo bow skills are not gave us enough Ulty regen like other skills.

As of stamina fix: the problem lays in the weapons dmg and the skills dmg, and cost, not in stamina regen or pool. All stam based skills should do about 15-25% more dmg so it is competitive with the magica based skills. if something has 71dmg/sec and buff it with 10% is nuttin.
DoTs should be in the 150 range equal to a light attack or so. NB mages can do 1000dmg/sec high end melee can do 800 if everything works out perfectly. If you buff weapon skills about 20%+ it might be in the same lvl. this something to consider and test.
Also AoE is below expectations with DW, or 2H weapons.

it is off topic a little but hafta say it:
Dear developers stop nerfing DKs, Sorcs, bring the other classes to the same lvl and all problems are fixed. I'm a NB DW, Bow, and rest destro which I hate but current game play dictates to use it. We want to wield our bows and swords we are NightBlades the name say it all "blades"

and why did you guys nerfed the Ulty regen bc noobs complained about it, please do not listen to everyone
Ulty = high dmg AoE noobs gotto learn how to avoid it like turn around and run or move tails between legs and roll.
It was nuttin wrong with the Vamps either. I care less about bolt escape just gave me something so I can catch them. Talons banners? only noobs stay in there and die. However the cc break has to be fixed.
Only noobs complained about all above, simple don't stay in AOE, or fire etc ... ZoS gave you a dodge roll use it.

nudel

Eivar wrote: »

*snip*
This I find to be a valid point as well, templars and nbs get really shafted on cc, nb gets a minimal snare/speed increase, and a very short term fear, I don't even know if temps even get any cc at all.

@Eivar I'm sorry. I agreed with you all the way until you said this. Piercing Javelin is a hefty knockback which can be morphed into a knockdown. Sun Fire is a sizeable snare. Eclipse is the 2nd best cc for PVE casters imo behind Negate Magic naturally. Nova stuns all enemies in an area and the Solar Disturbance morph snares them as well. Most of the Aedric Spear line includes some form of disorient, interrupt, or knockback.

If there's one thing temps are not short on it's cc.

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Medium Armor

• With the Wind Walker passive, medium armor will reduce stamina costs by 2% per piece equipped.

Cost of what? Everything?
Is this on top of the 2% Regen? Or instead of?

This is on top of the 2% Stamina regen, and the 2% stamina cost reduction is for all abilities that cost stamina (per piece equipped, so a total of 14% possible stamina cost reduction.)

This still won't work, light armour has more reductions but magika is only used for skills used for damaging while stamina is used for more stuff like block, dodge and break free. The general cost of stamina based skills are also more costly than makica skills.

The problem will still be there even with this change, magika users will still have a better pool of resources to do there stuff with a healthy stamina pool to use for anti CC while stamina users while still struggle with everything that is needed in a standard fight.

When I went light armour using a restro staff, my Impale only cost me about 186 magika, when I went back to medium armour my execute on 2hander cost me 340ish. I had plenty of stamina when I was in light armour to use break free and block but when I switched back I found keeping stamina for the defence side of things a struggle as I would run out of stamina after using a few skills.

Placing points in the stamina pool should give you a lot more base stamina just because it is used for more stuff. Placing 1 point and gaining 25 just does not cut it. That change is a start but needs more work.

Lyall84

Last post I am going to put on heavy armor in this thread, point I am trying to make is that Heavy Armor already has all the passives and tools it

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

I have a long list of changes an alterations to each armor type 2 pages back. Each type gets a boost. Look at it and tell me what part of heavy armor changes are too much.

The problem with your list of changes is as follows.

Light Armor: You are completely re-writing the light armor skill line for some reason when it does not need to be touched. It obviously is working fine or otherwise there would not be a million hogwartz students running around complaining about how medium armor is going to get buffed. I will agree that light armor is providing too much physical damage protection, but that is an issue with how armor value as a whole is being calculated, not about the passives it provides.

Medium Armor: You are completely re-writing the class to have all this snare removal and dodge rating, like they are suppose to be some sort of super untouchable dodge tank or unstoppable pvp assassin. If they re-write the entire medium armor skill line, they should make it more comparable to the light armor, but for stamina builds. My suggestion, either remove the critical from the armor, or move it elsewhere, make the first passive 21% reduction to stamina, just like the light armor is 21% to magicka, leave the 2nd regeneration passive. Move the agility dodge roll reduction and sprint speed to 3rd passive. Leave the increased attack speed set bonus 4th passive. 5th passive, either add armor pen, or re-insert critical here, but increase the bonus to be comparable to the 42% spell pen that light gets.

Heavy Armor: I like your changes to resolve, but i think the below 50% health needs to go. just give heavy a straight up 3% per piece reduction (actually 4% in my opinion). You did not add the health regen to your changes, so let me suggest this one, seeing how all other things stat related, health seems to get 50% more than stamina/magicka, this passive does not follow that pattern, make it follow the pattern. Instead of 2%/4% regen per piece, make it 3%/6% per piece. It may not seem like much, but with that 21% (or even 28% if you went 4% per piece) damage reduction, it should be more noticeable. You want both a .5% increase of damage per rank and 2% armor pen, that is overkill. Heavy is suppose to be a defensive set, not offensive one. But I do agree that that it needs help, double the current bonus to 14% (also double the armor line skill ability morph, so that way heavy can do good damage with it up, but not constantly). Rapid mending to reducing stamina? Big mistake. That needs to stay on medium armor only, and off heavy armor. Don't like the amount of healing received? Maybe it needs a boost, maybe it needs to heal based off successful block or interrupt. Either way, rapid mending is just proof that heavy is meant as a tanking, protection armor, not a damage armor. Changing this to stamina or magicka reduction or regeneration undermines the entire purpose of the armor set and having each type be set to a boost the respective stat.

I didn't rewrite anything about light armor. Everything there is an addition. You see it says "Add", not "Change". Those are buffs.

Medium armor additions were for the nimble survivability of medium armor. Being able to dodge better, and dodge further better with their exclusive skill furthers that. And that snare removal was a *** addition to shuffle period. who needs to remove 7 snares who even gets 7 SEPARATE snares on them. Its stupid. and if you use it with an ardent flame dot on you, you're going to stay snared unless you spam it. Movement speed increase servers to negate the effect of snares and snare spam.

The damage increase and armor pen increase of heavy armor isn't overkill, because I also added damage increase to light armor and medium armor which balances it out, not makes heavy better for damage. The armor pen suggested isn't even higher than light armors current spell pen.

All armor types need skill use resource reduction.

All types of armor have the correct type of reduction for their intended resource. If you say heavy needs magicka and stamina, why not give magicka to medium and stamina to light as well while you are at it, along with more health buffs.

The problem you have is that you are failing to see health as a resource that needs to be managed and that heavy is the armor that augments it.

If you are adding all that stuff in addition to existing passives. Why? Light armor doesn't need any additional buffs, not when it is at the top of the pile already.

They need to balance things out, not keep piling on so much benefits to everything that everything is godlike against NPCs but a nightmare in PvP.

Lyall84

murzik54ub17_ESO wrote: »

well, as some guy mentioned above, the "heavy = hp, medium = stamina, and light = magica"

well main problem is, there is about 15 skills that recover hp, and maybe about 5 skills that recover magica or stamina, that being said, you basically dont get any benefit from having few points of hp regen on heavy armor, since almost every class has acess to multiple healing skills,

i doubt any mage in here would play heavy armor if we got a passive that increased stam/manag regen 1% per armor piece,

not every class has access to multiple healing spells. Just going to point out nightblade, has 2 healing spells, one small heal over time, that is currently used because of its front end damage that it does, and it heals 25% of damage done over 8 seconds. Second is actually really good for AoE, because it heals based on number of targets hit, but one on one, doesn't heal for crap. So in any one on one situation, you have 1 small heal over time and 1 tiny heal not really worth anything.

The way heavy armor is designed and suppose to work is that your health lasts long enough that you don't need to spend as many resources to keep yourself up as a person wearing light armor might.

Now, I understand that people are taking way too much damage especially in VR zones, so it does not matter if you are wearing light or heavy. But that is not just a problem with how the armor works but also a problem with the damage the mobs are doing.

If you don't believe me on the heavy = health, medium = stamina, light = magicka, look at the passives. 4 of 5 passives directly deal with reducing incoming damage to your health bar. That means 80% of the armor was intended to protect you, not kill stuff quicker.

Lyall84

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Lyall84 wrote: »

cgerhardtutoringub17_ESO wrote: »

My two cents (long post):

From my experience with the game (i have been playing since Beta) and its skill lines, I believe the design behind weapon skill lines and "stamina builds" were meant to be based upon using light/heavy attacks primarily with skills to be used as fillers/buffs. Whereas, Magicka builds were based upon using skills with light/heavy attack fillers.

This can be seen in the skills in the DW, 2H, and bow skill lines. Many of the skills have a dot attached and/or provide some sort of benefit for their usage, i.e. poison status effect, snare, root, bleed, stun, haste, range extender.

However, these are my thoughts on what was intended and not what currently exists. It is currently not possible to effectively use weapon skills to buff yourself/debuff your enemy and use light/heavy attacks efficiently as ones primary source of damage. Weapon attacks DO NOT do enough damage per attack.

IMHO weapon attacks need to be scaled up. Fix this first, then see if stamina costs need tinkering and which armor trait truly needs it. For instance, if weapon attacks did more damage and you could DPS competitively using the above mentioned model then medium armor would not need a stamina cost reduction.

On the topic of Heavy Armor Tanking (which i have not had the experience of using), I believe it will need some sort of Stamina management option. Best option would probably be to add Stamina cost reduction to 1H/S or a Stamina Recharge on successful Shield Block (similar to restoration staffs 10% magicka gain from heavy attack).

Lastly, I believe any class skill that utilizes weapon critical should also use weapon power to calculate its damage and not spell power. This just seems really odd to me and does not allow for great synergy between a weapon centric build and class skills. Examples of this are veiled strike, assassin's blade, biting jabs, etc.

Add a cost reduction to blocking, base damage increase or whatever to heavy. But adding any type of stamina or magicka reduction or regeneration takes away from the other armors.

Heavy armor is suppose to be the Health armor, not the stamina armor, not the magicka armor.

Just for a pov change, remember its a TES game.

Fully enchanted heavy was one of the most popular options, even with mages.

Yes, but in TES games, heavy armor regardless of enchants, cost more magicka than using light or cloth.

Yes, but Im also not calling for regen. Id prefer being able to kill it before Im out, not waiting for it to come back.

That is why they have medium and light armor and why you can mix and match. Heavy armor for defense, medium or light for your build type of choice. If you go full heavy, you should be extremely hard to kill and whittle down your opponents.

Now, as I have said before, I am all for buffing juggernaut for more front end damage and even expanding it to include healing and casting for "battle-mage" and "war-priest" types. But the con to heavy armor needs to remain that you cannot cast or use abilities as much as light or medium armor in exchange for your added protection.

Lyall84

SpeedySteve wrote: »

ZOS,
-Adding stamina cost reduction to medium armor is an enormous step in the right direction for overall class/spec balance. I couldn't be happier to see this. Thank you.

-Increasing the damage on Flurry is also a step in the right direction on the redemption of what many regard to be a worthless ability. However, my honest opinion is that this (extremely small) change won't have any concrete effect on gameplay. The ability will still remain entirely unused in VR ranks due to the fact that "weaving" light attacks with instant abilities is significantly more effective *and* efficient. In light of this, I strongly encourage you to consider what I regard to the be best and only possibility for saving Flurry that does not significantly alter its mechanics: Give Flurry a distinctive use by making it a highly inefficient "burn" ability. Increase its damage by roughly 50% while doubling its stamina cost (or something comparable). This will mean that the ability can never be sustained for any length of time, but it will at least offer DW users an actual "burst" DPS option for PvP, etc.

-I'm fully in favor of the changes to Snipe. Beware, however, that reducing its cast time to 2 seconds will allow for its use in conjunction with the Nightblade's Shadowy Disguise. I'm not sure if that's already been foreseen or not, but I bring it up because it is the type of combination that could significantly unbalance the PvP playing field.

Allow it to be used with shadowy disguise? you didnt already know you can?

Pop shadowy disguise while the arrow is mid flight. Crit applies on next damage. So if you use it before the damage hits, it applies the crit to the snipe. That is why DoTs break us from shadowy disguise. Because they are the next damage as soon as we use the ability. The DoTs breaking us from stealth is not how the ability is intended, but has not been fixed yet.

But the reduced cast time cannot unbalance the PvP field because most good nightblades already know how to crit stack with shadowy disguise and snipe.

Lyall84

ShiftControl wrote: »

Bow: Snipe
Snipe’s cast time will be reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.
Snipe’s maximum range will be reduced from 40 meters to 35 meters.
Snipe’s minimum range will be reduced from 20 meters to 10 meters.

Snipe is one the worst skills in the bow line, absolutely useless in PVE and 90% of time the terrible in PvP as well. By time it goes off the target is in Riften already.
My suggestion is make it instant cast or a 1 sec cast with 2-3 sec CD so we can't spam it In PVP. In this case the PvE guys would slot it as well.
The range is short don't make it even shorter.
The min range to 10 is fine got to think about a boss fight and in this case the bow wielder can stay within healing range.
the range of the Snipe should be equal or > then bolt escape.
Aslo bow skills are not gave us enough Ulty regen like other skills.

As of stamina fix: the problem lays in the weapons dmg and the skills dmg, and cost, not in stamina regen or pool. All stam based skills should do about 15-25% more dmg so it is competitive with the magica based skills. if something has 71dmg/sec and buff it with 10% is nuttin.
DoTs should be in the 150 range equal to a light attack or so. NB mages can do 1000dmg/sec high end melee can do 800 if everything works out perfectly. If you buff weapon skills about 20%+ it might be in the same lvl. this something to consider and test.
Also AoE is below expectations with DW, or 2H weapons.

it is off topic a little but hafta say it:
Dear developers stop nerfing DKs, Sorcs, bring the other classes to the same lvl and all problems are fixed. I'm a NB DW, Bow, and rest destro which I hate but current game play dictates to use it. We want to wield our bows and swords we are NightBlades the name say it all "blades"

and why did you guys nerfed the Ulty regen bc noobs complained about it, please do not listen to everyone
Ulty = high dmg AoE noobs gotto learn how to avoid it like turn around and run or move tails between legs and roll.
It was nuttin wrong with the Vamps either. I care less about bolt escape just gave me something so I can catch them. Talons banners? only noobs stay in there and die. However the cc break has to be fixed.
Only noobs complained about all above, simple don't stay in AOE, or fire etc ... ZoS gave you a dodge roll use it.

If you think snipe is useless in pvp, I am going to hazard you are using it wrong. Now, I play a night blade and so if you read my above post, nightblades get a bit better use out of snipe than most other classes, but it is far from useless in pvp as it currently stands. I kill more people during keep sieges (offense and defense) than any other damaging attack.

draxredd

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Folks, we understand that everyone would like to see changes made to their preferred armor type or weapon immediately. Voicing disappointment that what you're looking for improvements to wasn't mentioned in an update post is totally fair, but we ask that you please understand that balance changes are part of an ongoing, never-ending effort and we implement them carefully and in small steps.

We will continue to do our very best to keep you updated on what is coming, and what we're working toward.

Sure, I completely understand this for a game currently in development. The problem is that you are asking for a premium price, where the service delivered is far from premium.
To be blunt, I'm paying for a premium service, not kickstarting your R&D.

You should consider suspending subscription billings until TESO in out of BETA if you want to save any shred of credibility with your last paying customers.

Sincerely,

ArRashid

Heavy armor should:
- increase defense CAPs.. there is enough armor/resistance otherwise, just caps need to be higher to make us NOT lose most of the stat due to overcharging

- bonus weapon damage doesn't seem to work. Or it at least doesn't add any weapon damage to Weapon Damage stat on the character screen. Maybe it means that it's going OVER the cap, maybe it just means it doesn't work at all. Personally I haven't noticed any difference.

- there is already block cost reduction in Shield tree. Most ppl who take heavy armor are not actually tanks (though some of them do), but ppl using 2h weapon, and those CAN'T block due to looooong weapon swings.

- from the lore viewpoint, heavy armor should BY ITSELF allow it's user to ignore the damage done by LIGHT PHYSICAL ATTACKS. They should just bounce off. Unless the force is too much (heavy attack, aka thrusting a weapon through cuirass) or it's attacked by spells (have you ever been locked in an armor that's fired up to the point of almost melting? I can't imagine it would feel too good )



For those who think heavy should be worse than medium for dps:
- it already is, and it will be even more - medium gets 21% crit, 28% stamina regeneration, 10% attacks speed and in next big patch it will even get 14% stamina cost reduction. Heavy ONLY has 7% melee dmg. That means that medium will be able to dish out about twice as many abilities as heavy, while still hitting them harder. (not to mention 28% reduction to roll dodge cost, which is pretty substantial)

- since medium users are already hitting more effectively, and way more often, I really think heavy 2h builds should get a buff - for example +42% of HEAVY attack damage (hitting those looooooooooong swings bit harder, since there is not enough stamina regeneration to use abilities with those huge costs), or +21% weapon damage for abilities using weapon damage stat. Current 7% is not even noticable.




Also, anyone found ANY use for "Arcane Fighter" passive in 2h line? Like, I'd get it on destro staves, but wtf is it doing on 2h line? Is it a staff passive in 2h line? I mean, staves ARE technically two-handed weapons, but they are not marked as ones for that purpose anyway, and I doubt 2h weapons have any "elemental effects" other than enchants, which already have an internal cooldown..
Why not rework that passive to give 2h a fighting chance?

demonlkojipub19_ESO

I just remembered the bonus weapon damage on heavy armor and immovable brute are just that, weapon damage. Increasing that, not damage with weapon abilities, gives a highly unnoticeable increase to damage dealt, as seen with the hundings rage set bonus. They need to change to weapon ability damage.

Laura

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Many of you have asked what we’re doing to make skills, passives, and builds based on stamina more viable and as attractive as the magicka-based options. Below is a first look at some of the improvements we’re making to stamina-based skills and passives. As with all our balance efforts, this is an ongoing process and there will be more to come. We look forward to hearing your thoughts!

Bow: Poison Arrow

• Poison Arrow’s damage-over-time has been increased by 50% overall.

Bow: Snipe

• Snipe’s cast time will be reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.
• Snipe’s maximum range will be reduced from 40 meters to 35 meters.
• Snipe’s minimum range will be reduced from 20 meters to 10 meters.

Dual Wield: Flurry

• The damage for Flurry’s final hit will be increased by 10%.

Medium Armor

• With the Wind Walker passive, medium armor will reduce stamina costs by 2% per piece equipped.

Two Handed: Cleave

• Cleave’s damage-over-time will be increased by 25% overall, and scale as the ability ranks up.

Two Handed: Uppercut

• Uppercut’s damage will be increased by 10%.
• Uppercut’s global cooldown after use will be reduced by 50%.

Nothing about fixing 1h & s? Nothing about nerfing stick and skirts? No fixes to why heavy armor is absolutely useless? You guys are useless, zenimax

go home you're drunk.

I think buffing instead of nerfing is the way to go

one hand and shield is used for tanking in trials really dont see the problem there.


such a silly child

ZoM_Head

Full stamina build VR3 here DK.

The damage output is very very low compared to what my full mage templar can do.

The weapons are very weak, they do not deal enough damage, getting scraps for medium armour is a huge pain compared to light or heavy.

Very easily hit 30%+ crit with spells and no mundes stones. Very hard to reach that number with stamina builds.

90% of stamina builds use a bow, i am sorry but one stamina based weapon skill does not justify "all stamina builds".

Brawlers/Barbarian builds just do not work in Veteran zones. Two handed lacks any sort of AOE in close range, compared to any AOE spell/magic based skill.

My veteran templar will always deal much much more damage (reflective light currently deals 383 without provisoning or potions or any sort of crit) he has 25 attributes in magicka and 24 health. My two handed brawler deals 141 damage with cleave, both skills are "spammable", my Brawler has all 49 in stamina and lacks way behind.

I am seriously considering just deleting my veteran 3 brawler now, just because he feels so underpowered and weak compared to a simple templar mage.