Campaign camped by one Vampire DK Emperor

bruceb14_ESO5

@Blackweb, I do not like mechanics that allow a class to be totally OP vs others either, but I have seen some valid suggestions in here. Although what you said about jumping up or across keep walls was a totally different situation, sounded like an exploited bug. DK Vamps can be taken down, even Emperor ones. Working as a guild group as you are should make it so that even very low levels have a shot. My PVP skills have gone from laughable to ok in this game. I love the game although hate the VR grind intensely and love PVP (I hated WOW PVP and felt poor about my PVP abilities there.) Here they can grow.

BTW esostats website can show where your side is under represented and you may have a chance to change the balance in a positive direction with your group. There may be more choice than you are seeing.

Armitas

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I don't understand why there's still a discussion. 16 people vs 1 Vamp Emperor. That's 16 silver bolts at 5% chance to banish = 80% chance to one shot him.

A silver bolt proc might do around 2k, which will not "1 shot" an emperor by the proc alone. Only if by the mediocre damage from 16 hits plus a proc. If you divide the 2k proc over 16 members then each one contributed only 125 damage each... That is not an effective use of 16 people. They would be better served using skills that actually damage on their own, which is what I assume is being done anyway.

The proc is meaningless over 16 people.

bruceb14_ESO5

@Armitas, doesn't Silver Bolts have a 5% chance to Banish?

Armitas

bruceb14_ESO5 wrote: »

@Armitas, doesn't Silver Bolts have a 5% chance to Banish?

Its "5% chance on hit to banish undead and Daedric enemies, dealing X Magic Damage."

quakedawg_ESO

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Sorry but if your group of 10+ people, most of them veterans, and according to you one of the best Sorcerer on the world can't kill 1 single DK Emperor... you are bad.

Simple as that. You and your group got beaten by an Emperor, lesson learned. Crying and calling for nerfs is very sad.

I wouldn't have been so blunt but this is the truth. If you are too stubborn to take the advice here and continue to whine and tell us how good your guild is at PvP, not sure help is what you need.

Nobody can doubt a DK in the right hands against a mediocre guild or below is not a good matchup and I agree they are a bit OP at this stage. But to all the rest who have no problems dropping them easily this thread is just a typical whine. At least take advice for god sakes and go out and practice against a few. If you are still not convinced, you will hopefully realize your guild needs to improve.

Lowbei

lol so some bad zerg died to one guy, then made a post about it?

bwahahahaha

BSGDevastator

You still don't seem to get it. Under no circumstances should any single player be able to wipe a group of 16 organized players period, end of story.

I loled. I wonder how "organized" you were? And even if you were truly organized, I think it's totally acceptable if an emperor can kill a large group of players.

At the end, he's still an emperor. You can't make the emperor a weakling who can't even take on a small squad.

Honestly, I love it when someone is extremly overpowered. Enemy or ally doesn't matter. It's interesting to watch, it's special. No other MMO has this. This uniqueness. I'm sick of everyone beeing equally strong, of everyone beeing the same. Seeing an emperor going on a rampage and annihilate everyone is exactly what makes PvP interesting.

They should add hidden unlockable special skills, which are extremly rare but make you very strong. With that, there would be more people who stand out of the crowd and earn themselves a name.

Aeradon

*grabs popcorn*

blackweb

BSGDevastator wrote: »

You still don't seem to get it. Under no circumstances should any single player be able to wipe a group of 16 organized players period, end of story.

I loled. I wonder how "organized" you were? And even if you were truly organized, I think it's totally acceptable if an emperor can kill a large group of players.

At the end, he's still an emperor. You can't make the emperor a weakling who can't even take on a small squad.

Honestly, I love it when someone is extremly overpowered. Enemy or ally doesn't matter. It's interesting to watch, it's special. No other MMO has this. This uniqueness. I'm sick of everyone beeing equally strong, of everyone beeing the same. Seeing an emperor going on a rampage and annihilate everyone is exactly what makes PvP interesting.

They should add hidden unlockable special skills, which are extremly rare but make you very strong. With that, there would be more people who stand out of the crowd and earn themselves a name.

If what some of you say about how easy it is to kill emporers or V12s with gimmicky op pvp builds were true, why are there so many empty campaigns and only one balanced campaign, Wabbajack?

The best evidence to refute the lrn2play posters is all of the ghost campaigns. The reason that there are so many ghost campaigns and only one locked, viable, balanced campaign (Wabbajack) is because all of the other campaigns are being camped by 1 emporer or small op gank squads using gimmick op pvp builds. I have been to several empty campaigns. Every one of them was camped by an emperor and/or a gank squad.

The current Cyrodill pvp system rewards winners and punishes losers, it encourages piling on and bad conduct. There is no incentive to go to a ghost campaign and play for any but the winning side. To be fair, all they are doing is playing the game as intended. The problem is how Cyrodill PvP is currently intended to be played.

Some suggestions for balancing Cyrodill PvP and filling up ghost campaigns:

1. Give bonus exp, AP and HP to players on the least populated faction.
2. Scale the emporer buff with enemy population. It is unbalanced for an emperor facing 20 enemy players the same buff as one facing 200 enemy players.
3. Reset the campaign maps at least once a week.

I am not sure how to deal with pop imbalances in low pop campaigns. Should pop limits be proportional? For example if one side has a 2-1 advantage, should it be locked, regardless of population (set the minimum pop at something like 50 before the limit kicks in)?

In my experience, incentives are better than punishments. Players should be incentivized to switch to low pop campaigns and methods for preventing a small group of players from camping an entire campaign should be devised.

Singular

You have some good suggestions above, and you're probably right that the current system punishes losers - most systems do.

I disagree with resetting the map every week. In long campaigns, the whole point is to take the map. If you know you aren't going to be able to hold it, what's the point? Anyways, shorter campaigns are coming for those who don't want to be in long ones.

I also disagree with nerfing vamps and emporers so much that they are on part with regular characters. I really like that they have become world bosses and are difficult to kill. The fact that 16 players couldn't kill a single emperor is a good thing. They should be tough and should require some communication and planning - there are lots of suggestions above on just how to do so.

I'm not convinced the campaigns are empty b/c of fotm builds. I think there's more going on to the player attrition rate than that.

Avidus

Ohhh, So this is Alacrity that you are crying about.
Alacrity are not exploiting, they are very well coordinated. Some of their tactics from what I have observed are well thought out.

At the same time I know a good way of dealing with their main tactic, it just takes a lot of coordination. Nor am I about the spill the beans with what it is.
Id like the opportunity to test it again with the team prepared to do it.
I also know where and when to fight them.
If you fight on their terms, unless you are outnumbering them severely, then you will probably lose. And believe it or not, they use situations people consider 'safe' as one of their best ways at wiping you.

Alacrity are one of the few guilds I enjoy playing against..
So I would appreciate them not being nerfed into the ground because you do not know how to deal with them.

So if we are talking equal numbers against Alacrity. Then yes, they are difficult, and No they are not impossible.
Nor is their emperor un-killable.

TL:DR
Stop being a bad.

Rylana

I bet OP doesnt have the killed the emperor achievement yet >_>

quakedawg_ESO

Mad respect to Alacrity. Always fun to fight one of the best coordinated guilds. To some, coordination means they must be cheating but to the veteran RvR crowd you gotta tip your helm.

Kudos to the guilds who put in the time and effort to excel out on the field. You don't see their members crying because they died to this or that. They learn, adapt, and return to the war swinging. We need more players who are less informed to join up with these PvP guilds and learn something instead of waistng time whining about DKs, Bolt Escape, Impulse, scary NPC guards,etc, ect.

I totally understand there are kids who just won't get it and never will. Those are the kids stuck in the corner eating paste. Leave them there.

blackweb

Avidus wrote: »

*ignored*

TL:DR
Stop being a bad.

I don't care what guild they are in. You have no credibility when you insult other posters. No one will listen to anything you say when you do.

TL:DR
Stop being a bad forum poster.

blackweb

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

*ignored*

I totally understand there are kids who just won't get it and never will. Those are the kids stuck in the corner eating paste. Leave them there.

So everyone who disagrees with you is a "kid stuck in a corner eating paste"? What an immature response. No one will listen to you when you talk to them like that including me.

I remember how dominant our outfit was in Planetside 1. Sometimes the enemy would just leave the continent to avoid fighting us. We learned that sometimes it was best to go to another target before the enemy is too demoralized. Given your snide response, I doubt that would occur to you.

Why do I bring this up?

What is happening in the ghost campaigns is the losing side is quitting the battle. All that is left on the winning side are OP gank squads and phony emperors. Again to be fair, they are playing the game as implemented.

What needs to happen is to tone down the winner buffs and provide incentive for the losing side to continue fighting.

quakedawg_ESO

Enjoy your paste

blackweb

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

Enjoy your paste

I have led many guilds in many games for 11 years. Today I lead an organization with over 2000 members with guilds in Guild Wars 2, Planetside 2 and Elder Scrolls Online. In that time I have met many good people who represent what is best in MMO gaming and formed lasting friendships.

Sadly, I have also met many individuals like the one I quoted above who represent the worst in MMO gaming. Hateful people who take delight in degrading, insulting and tormenting others. I do not allow such people to remain in one of my guilds if they reveal who they really are. However, there is no way to screen or ban them from a game.

I am commanded by the author of my faith to forgive this person so I do.

quakedawg_ESO

Great to hear man and thanks for your resume. I didn't take your reply as hateful or insulting so maybe you should do the same. Those foot prints you see along your journey? Those belong to me. Been there, done that and much more. I don't like to see cries for nerfs when all people need to do is learn to counter and/or learn to use the counters that are actually built into the game. That is all. Not rocket science. If you were in my guild, you would actually understand.

You are more than welcome to choose your path. Just expect a lot of people tired of the whines because they have already took the time and effort to learn these counters.

Good luck!

blackweb

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

Great to hear man and thanks for your resume. I didn't take your reply as hateful or insulting so maybe you should do the same. Those foot prints you see along your journey? Those belong to me. Been there, done that and much more. I don't like to see cries for nerfs when all people need to do is learn to counter and/or learn to use the counters that are actually built into the game. That is all. Not rocket science. If you were in my guild, you would actually understand.

You are more than welcome to choose your path. Just expect a lot of people tired of the whines because they have already took the time and effort to learn these counters.

Good luck!

If what you say is true, please explain to me why there are so many one-sided ghost campaigns and why there is a queue in only one campaign?

When players are hopelessly outmatched by a few players with gimmicky OP builds or a single emperor, they simply quit the battlefield. Then they go to the only campaign where they can get any AP, exp or rank and that is Wabbajack. I have seen this pattern over and over again in pvp in one MMO after another for 10 years. If large numbers of players have absolutely no chance of winning, they will just quit. The result is ghost campaigns where a few players on one side dominate the entire campaign.

Armitas

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

Great to hear man and thanks for your resume. I didn't take your reply as hateful or insulting so maybe you should do the same.

Can you explain to me why calling someone a paste eating kid should not be taken as a hateful or insulting comment?

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

I totally understand there are kids who just won't get it and never will. Those are the kids stuck in the corner eating paste. Leave them there.

quakedawg_ESO wrote: »

Enjoy your paste

quakedawg_ESO

Hateful? No. Insulting? Very possible. Depends on how you view paste eating ...

For that, I apologize.

As for why players in ESO get frustrated from OP builds and quit? Hate to answer a question with a question but why do many players accept this challenge and thrive? Not everyone sees a DK as the boogie man. I know many guilds lick their chops and wreck him. What is the difference?

Edit: Yes, I do have an answer but I'll keep that to myself. Been in the industry a long time so I to have seen these issues first hand. Sorry for being evasive.

Armitas

On the release of any MMO OP builds/classes will exist. We should be actively looking for those builds rather than assuming they do not exist, because they most probably do exist.

An evident truth does not need to be supplemented by insult, supercilious responses, or denigration. One only needs to present an evident truth alone to succeed. When a presented "truth" comes supplemented with unreasonable behavior one can only doubt the truth attached to it for wonder of why it cannot stand on it's own.

blackweb

Armitas wrote: »

On the release of any MMO OP builds/classes will exist. We should be actively looking for those builds rather than assuming they do not exist, because they most probably do exist.

An evident truth does not need to be supplemented by insult, supercilious responses, or denigration. One only needs to present an evident truth alone to succeed. When a presented "truth" comes supplemented with unreasonable behavior one can only doubt the truth attached to it for wonder of why it cannot stand on it's own.

The evident truth is that there are a whole lot of unbalanced ghost campaigns and only one full, balanced campaign, Wabbajack. It is also evident that most if not all of the ghost campaigns are being camped by gank squads with OP builds or emperors. The question is why is this happening and how can it be changed?

It may be true that a V12 skilled in the use of pvp counters could effectively counter an emperor or other V12s with similar abilities or even an emperor. Unfortunately, V12s are an extremely small minority in ESO. If Zenimax is pandering to V12s at the expense of lower levels in PvP, that would be a huge mistake. If that were the case, what Zenimax would end up with is a few thousand high level players in Cyrodill pvp and a whole lot of empty campaigns and everyone packed into one campaign. Hmm... isn't that what we have now?

To be fair, V12s should not be punished for putting a lot of effort into their characters. That said, sub-V12s should not be punished just for showing up in Cyrodill PvP which is what we have now.

I have made several suggestions for balancing campaigns:

Some suggestions for balancing Cyrodill PvP and filling up ghost campaigns:

1. Give bonus exp, AP and HP to players on the least populated faction.
2. Scale the emporer buff with enemy population. It is unbalanced for an emperor facing 20 enemy players the same buff as one facing 200 enemy players.
3. Reset the campaign maps at least once a week.

I am not sure how to deal with pop imbalances in low pop campaigns. Should pop limits be proportional? For example if one side has a 2-1 advantage, should it be locked, regardless of population (set the minimum pop at something like 50 before the limit kicks in)?

If you have any other ideas, please post them.

Kajoh_Americano

blackweb wrote: »

I am Blackweb, leader of Phoenix Battalion, a 3000+ member multi-gaming community with guilds in Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, Planetside 2 and ESO. I have been leading large-scale pvp for more than 10 years. Our PS2 outfit has over 1500 members. We regularly have 100+ members online during prime time in PS2 organized down to the platoon and squad level. In one recent alert, the TR and VS factions stopped fighting each other just to counter Phoenix Battalion and our 3 platoons. To say the least, we know what we are doing in world pvp.

Our current campaign, Hopesfire is dead so we are looking for a new campaign. We tried out Volendrung sunday night. We went in with about 16 gulid members, all on TeamSpeak together, some lowbies, some veterans. We were very organized with multiple strong healers.

While assaulting an AD keep that contained a scroll, we encountered the AD Vampire Emperor DK. The AD had all of the scrolls on the map. In a matter of seconds, he easily wiped all of us. Even our strongest veterans could not kill him, our healers could not heal through his damage. We went to another keep, he showed up there with the same result. Game over, we quit the campaign and have no plans to return.

We had one geared sorcerer healer that almost killed him. He got him down to 5% but ran out of steam before he could kill him. The Vampire DK Emperors health regeneration was insane. He could stand still, take damage and out-regen everyone's damage but our most geared sorcerer. Then it became a resource race that the sorcerer lost because of the combination of stacking buffs on the Vampire DK Emporer with full scroll and Cyrodill buffs. Just too much.

Our sorcerer who almost killed him finally gave up and said "OP as f**k".

I think that sums it up. That sorcerer is one of the best ESO players I have ever seen. He is the only one who could survive against the Emperor for any length of time because he is a Resto staff healing sorc who puts out good damage and he is a VERY strong healer.

The current scroll and emperor and domination mechanics reward camping and piling on. The weak get weaker, and the strong get stronger. When one player can camp an entire zone and easily wipe large groups of enemies, the game mechanics that enable him to do so must be called broken.

Zenimax, you are incentivizing bad behavior by the winning faction and giving the losing faction no incentive to fight back. I do not blame the vampire emporer, I blame the game mechanics that enabled him to camp an entire world pvp zone by himself.

Recommendations:

- Reduce all Emporer buffs by at least 50%.
- Balance all Vampire abilities with all other classes abilities. A vampire should not be able to out-heal or out-dps any other class or weapon abilities.
- Incentivize the out-numbered faction with bonus alliance points, experience and stat buffs.
- The scroll bonuses are fine, leave them where they are.
- Add incentives to play in low pop campaigns such as experience, AP, stat and healing buffs for low pop campaigns.

At this time, there are only two active NA campaigns in Cyrodill, Bloodthorn and Wabbajack. All of the others are dead because of extreme imbalances caused by the game mechanics mentioned above.

No offense to your gaming community, I'm sure you guys rock when playing PS2, etc... but it sounds like you have no idea how to handle large scale pvp within ESO.

I find it quite interesting you give us no information whatsoever about how the fight unfolded. Did you stand his banner by any chance ? Because there's no outhealing that if your group of 16 got rooted and didnt roll out of the way, purge or no purge. Not trying to offend you but some more information would be welcome because it really does sound like a L2P issue.

quakedawg_ESO

There are so many people on these forums that have offered up counters for DK's, Impulse spam, etc. People just need to do some homework and try out these tactics and others. Dev will do another balance pass in due time but for now, the I-hate-nerfs community just asks that folks think outside the box and try something different. There is no magic that some people possess to deal with these issues and have no trouble. The tools are available to everyone.

Dalriaden

Did murder thumbs rage quit when he got dethroned a week or two ago?

Lobselvith

galiumb16_ESO wrote: »

"To say the least, we know what we are doing in world pvp."

If you let one emperor drive you from a campaign, you do not have the foggiest idea what you are doing in world PvP.

Truth,

blackweb wrote: »

While assaulting an AD keep that contained a scroll, we encountered the AD Vampire Emperor DK. The AD had all of the scrolls on the map. In a matter of seconds, he easily wiped all of us. Even our strongest veterans could not kill him, our healers could not heal through his damage. We went to another keep, he showed up there with the same result. Game over, we quit the campaign and have no plans to return.

We had one geared sorcerer healer that almost killed him. He got him down to 5% but ran out of steam before he could kill him. The Vampire DK Emperors health regeneration was insane. He could stand still, take damage and out-regen everyone's damage but our most geared sorcerer. Then it became a resource race that the sorcerer lost because of the combination of stacking buffs on the Vampire DK Emporer with full scroll and Cyrodill buffs. Just too much.

Our sorcerer who almost killed him finally gave up and said "OP as f**k".

Fact and point To fight a Vampire make sure you stay spread out don't fight within 10 yards of him, or he can use Bat swarm and just get all his life back, if he does a bat Swarm get out of range of the Swarm!!
use Stuns, knockbacks, and CC.

Also stop acting like your a pvper if you lose 2 times to someone in pvp, and you quit then your no pvper I ever heard of.

not trying to be mean, just saying it as I see it.


P.S. Vampires do not need a nerf, nether does Emperor you just have to use something other then blunt force to fight ether one.
learn to use some tactics.

quakedawg_ESO

Even more info! Hopefully the OP will take this information to heart and learn how to counter these issues.

TRIP233

The original post on this is so old. The exploits have already been dealt with by Zenimax. I personally think this thread needs to be locked because the original discussion has already been dealt with. With that in mind I don't think there is anything else that needs to be said to continue this thread.

Kaytlin

The emperor title and buffs need to go away in this game, period. The emperor game mechanics are overpowered and being exploited by a large number of "teams" to use polite language.

A group of 15 or more level 12 players, who understand the mechanics of the emperor should not wipe to a single player. Using dodge roll, block, null fields, etc all help but the simple fact of the matter is that 1 player should not be so overpowered. 1 player should not be able to jump up into a keep and wipe 30 or 40!

When this happens it ruins the game for the vast majority of players out there. To quote" The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few!"

Several have commented that silver bolts and fire are effective against vamps. Not from a practical aspect. That is to prevent "vamps" from being exploited and underpowered. Look at the recent change when the damage from crossbows was enhanced. Immediate crys from vampires "oh we are being exploited!" and a quick reversal by zeni. Sorry vamps but you are overpowered!

And finally,

This thread is not old, the exploits have not been fixed regarding the emperor. Zenimax need to address this problem now, with decisive action or the game will continue to bleed subscribers resulting in the death of this game. Why would a console player spend money on a game with this many major issues? They won't!

Caytlynne of Skye
V12 EP Sorceress