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Would you be willing to break lore?
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anghara✭✭✭No. (Stick to lore)One of the things I enjoy most about games is story, and that's particularly true with the Elder Scrolls with its long history that all ties together. I would really hate for this to be "just another MMO" and lose those characteristics that make it unique and special.1 -
isengrimb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭No. (Stick to lore)Preserving lore is the most important thing for Immersion. Breaking the lore breaks suspension of disbelief because by defying the rules of the second world, you make it no longer believable.
That said, Dragons can be in ESO.
And it doesn't break lore in any way shape or form.
Read this Skyrim Book: Atlas of Dragons
There were Dragons around in the Second Era. Just not many of them.
Paarthurnax is of course up on the Throat of the World, or should be.
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Chryos✭✭✭✭YES!! (i.e. I want Dragons and Dwemmer )@Nordjitsu Thanks for that! Ok I feel better about dragons now. (love your name btw)
(side note)
Now I have to profess this: I love ESO and have been playing these games since the first. I'm in no way near as "lore smart" as the rest of you guys. So I am learning a lot from ya'll. I am playing catchup with lore so please excuse my ignorance. I am just trying to figure out what possible and whats not.If I am going to quote someone, it's going to be me.0 -
No. (Stick to lore)I'm not obsessed with 100% immersion or anything, but adding certain things would irritate me. For instance, having the Dwemer randomly show up again is kind of a huge break in lore. I say no.1
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Chryos✭✭✭✭YES!! (i.e. I want Dragons and Dwemmer )Kathleen.Flynn02b14_ESO wrote: »I'm not obsessed with 100% immersion or anything, but adding certain things would irritate me. For instance, having the Dwemer randomly show up again is kind of a huge break in lore. I say no.
Duly noted. The mystery is still going to drive me nuts though.
If I am going to quote someone, it's going to be me.0 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Chryos
No problem! Being new isn't something to be ashamed of unless it also comes with being unwilling to learn.
After Alduin was banished in the Dragon Age, the Dragons were slowly killed off by mortals (including the Dragon Guard.) They were unable to revive without Alduin around, which is why they seemingly disappeared.
However, many lived throughout this period (between Alduin's banishment and his return.)
We've seen two of these Dragons in game already. Paarthurnax survived the whole time leading the Grey Beards from the throat of the world.
Nafaalilargus was a dragon featured in The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard. He may or may not be the same as the dragon Nahfahlaar mentioned in the Atlas. This Dragon was slain by Cyrus in 2E 864 (after the time frame of this game.)
Both of those dragons could be feature in ESO, but we wouldn't be allowed to kill either of them.
Mirmulnir and Ahbiilok on the other hand, we know next to nothing about. Both were alive as of 2E 373 (before the time of this game) and we have no record of their death.
That means they could easily still be alive and that we could kill them.
One was last sighted in Morrowind and the other was last sighted in Skyrim. I'd like to see the next Adventure Zone feature the player working with the Remnants of the Dragon Guard (who are now disbanded and from where the Dragon Knights get their name) to take out Mirmulnir and Ahbiilok.
They could be Trial bosses.4 -
Chryos✭✭✭✭YES!! (i.e. I want Dragons and Dwemmer )Well I have to play for a few minutes before getting rdy for school, so hopefully there will be alot more discussion for me to read when I get back.
I'll leave you with this question:
What lore can we expect in this game time period that we would not have otherwise seen in the other games we played? Is there something that would have happened now, that isnt currently out, but is to be expected in the near future of this game?If I am going to quote someone, it's going to be me.0 -
No. (Stick to lore)Lore is important. Certainly there will be variations since this is a period of time relatively unknown, however lore is important.1 -
Rayadrel✭✭✭The lore in this game is already broken beyond repair.
The Soulburst? Yeah funny how no history books mention this other Oblivion invasion that happened.
Also when in sunny Deshaan be sure to not visit the vast city of Almalexia. Since it isn't there.
Meanwhile in Coldharbour, see the copy of the Imperial Palace! A horrible vision of the future that made grown men weep at it's horrific visage covered in blood and feces... that looks nicer and cleaner than the real one.
So whatever. You know there will be dragons once they find an excuse.
Don't forget playable Dwemer and Numidium mounts in the cash store.1 -
stungateb14_ESO✭✭✭No to dragons as a persistant encounter a 1 time event to defeat the last remaining dragon used by King Casmir II maybe but please ZOS keep retcon to a minimum.1 -
isengrimb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭No. (Stick to lore)While Tamriel seems to have a robust printing industry, I can see this first oblivion crisis getting overlooked/confused/confounded with everything else that happens up to the establishment of the Septim dynasty - and new dynasties may not permit certain books to survive. Not every book should survive the centuries, and have absolute facts about history. Even though the Daedra invasion itself might be politically neutral, the war going on at that same time won't be.
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Rayadrel✭✭✭isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »While Tamriel seems to have a robust printing industry, I can see this first oblivion crisis getting overlooked/confused/confounded with everything else that happens up to the establishment of the Septim dynasty - and new dynasties may not permit certain books to survive. Not every book should survive the centuries, and have absolute facts about history. Even though the Daedra invasion itself might be politically neutral, the war going on at that same time won't be.
I would've bought that had the invasion been localised or confined but not only do we have oblivion gate style incursions with the dolmens, we have entire cities being sucked into Coldharbour and the Imperial City being sacked by Daedra.
There are books detailing history of the Dwemer, the Alessians and the Ayleids but not one book detailing the fact that the capital of the entire continent was invaded and occupied by Daedra while a giant portal to hell hovered right above it?
Yeah right.
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isengrimb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭No. (Stick to lore)isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »While Tamriel seems to have a robust printing industry, I can see this first oblivion crisis getting overlooked/confused/confounded with everything else that happens up to the establishment of the Septim dynasty - and new dynasties may not permit certain books to survive. Not every book should survive the centuries, and have absolute facts about history. Even though the Daedra invasion itself might be politically neutral, the war going on at that same time won't be.
I would've bought that had the invasion been localised or confined but not only do we have oblivion gate style incursions with the dolmens, we have entire cities being sucked into Coldharbour and the Imperial City being sacked by Daedra.
There are books detailing history of the Dwemer, the Alessians and the Ayleids but not one book detailing the fact that the capital of the entire continent was invaded and occupied by Daedra while a giant portal to hell hovered right above it?
Yeah right.
Well, people being the silly things they tend to be, all that crap got blamed on "insert enemy faction here"
And for all we know, all those books about the Dwemer etc are full of it.
Meh, I don't think they'd be interested in patching up the older games to include a book on this (You probably shouldn't see it in ESO since things are still happening). There should be a new book on the subject in TES6, though - if not, then we can complain. As far as I can tell, Arena didn't even have books; those weren't added until Daggerfall - so uh, yeah. ESO lots of books, Arena, illiterate society.
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Rayadrel✭✭✭All that really says is that the protagonist of Arena was either illiterate or thought books were for sissies.
New books on it in TESVI will hardly solve matters.
In any case, older games should not have to revise their lore for newer games. Retcons must be done with subtlety and grace.
ESO does it like a hammer. If they really wanted us to fight Molag Bal they could've made it a personal journey where he is invading and undermining Tamriel from behind the scenes.
Now you may argue Molag Bal's sphere isn't subtlety, which is true. But then his sphere isn't massive invasions of other realms either. That's Dagon's job because Dagon is the Prince of change.
But I guess focusing on Molag Bal's real job wouldn't make this game "family friendly" eh?
But I digress, the point is there wasn't even an attempt to make ESO fit with existing lore and therefore the only two possible stances on this are either that you acknowledge the lore is toast or that you just don't care.1 -
stungateb14_ESO✭✭✭All that really says is that the protagonist of Arena was either illiterate or thought books were for sissies.
New books on it in TESVI will hardly solve matters.
In any case, older games should not have to revise their lore for newer games. Retcons must be done with subtlety and grace.
ESO does it like a hammer. If they really wanted us to fight Molag Bal they could've made it a personal journey where he is invading and undermining Tamriel from behind the scenes.
Now you may argue Molag Bal's sphere isn't subtlety, which is true. But then his sphere isn't massive invasions of other realms either. That's Dagon's job because Dagon is the Prince of change.
But I guess focusing on Molag Bal's real job wouldn't make this game "family friendly" eh?
But I digress, the point is there wasn't even an attempt to make ESO fit with existing lore and therefore the only two possible stances on this are either that you acknowledge the lore is toast or that you just don't care.
Its eerily reminiscent of a faction once known as the Bronze Dragonflight if you catch my meaning.1 -
JosephChip✭✭✭YES!! (i.e. I want Dragons and Dwemmer )Yes to dragons as really special encounters. Probably something like a global TESO event. No reason to leave them out. TES lore isn't exactly set in stone and so well defined to be beyond surprises and changes. Hell, this very game has changed a lot of things related to lore. And dragons are awesome. They would make happy the people who vote against their inclusion too. I just know it. They will secretly enjoy them.1 -
Brother_Numsie✭✭✭YES!! (i.e. I want Dragons and Dwemmer )Dragons?
Yes.
But very few. At this point in history most of them have been hunted down and are being hunted. In fact in the future Tiber Septim makes a pact with them and that they will no longer be hunted (he lied).
Dwemer?
Just one.
In fact Yagrum Bagarn should be wandering around somewhere in Morrowind (or in and out of oblivion) at this time quite off his rocker. I would be pretty disappointed if we did not see some sign of him (would be cool if we help him get a leg up, as it were).2 -
yiasemi✭✭✭✭
Or maybe they wanted more quests like the ones in Oblivion in Skingrad where you could work for the 'good' vampire Count Hassildor, well-loved by his people unless I was completely hallucinogenic for the entire noughties and made the whole thing up in my head. I blame the skooma. Talking of which , when playing Morrowind many Dunmer tell you that vampires are accepted in the west especially among the nobilty, so this is all very OK as far as lore is concerned.Hell, no.
There are too many lore breaking things already, let's keep dragons and Dwemer out, we really don't need them.
I'm already rather annoyed by often having to do quests for "good" vampires during the area stories (Rivenspire in DC for example, Eastmarch in EP). Skipping those quests isn't an option, as they are part of the storyline quests for the area and skipping would prevent the later parts (not to mention the masses of PC vampires, I guess there are just too many Twilight fans about...).1 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. (Stick to lore)Talking of which , when playing Morrowind many Dunmer tell you that vampires are accepted in the west especially among the nobilty, so this is all very OK as far as lore is concerned.
Never noticed that in Morrowind, but then my memories of Morrowind are somewhat hazy.
It's less an issue with the existence of "good" vampires in general, but it would be nice if we had the option to oppose them rather than having to work with them or at least to get the option of destroying them after the quest is done.
Perhaps it becomes possible when the crime & justice system comes 1 -
Rial✭✭✭No. (Stick to lore)Very relevant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Apxjea2cs
In my opinion, ideas starting with "Wouldn't it be cool if...?" tend to dilute and make unconvincing even the most carefully and lovingly constructed narrative/world/whatever for a cheap thrill.2 -
AngryNord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. (Stick to lore)I voted no.
Then again, AFAIK it is said that the Whole of Nirn is under attack by Molag Bal (even though it sometimes only says Tamriel), so it wouldn't break lore to have the possibility of going to e.g. Akavir and ride dragons there...1 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭No. (Stick to lore)There isnt a "who cares" option so i had to vote "no".
This game needs a lot of things... not dragons.1 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭No. (Stick to lore)Dragons existed during this time, hell Parthurnaxx is still up on top of the Throat of the World right now, but they are highly unlikely to be a major threat or seen often, if at all, skeletal dragons though, risen by a necromancer? I could see that happening, but anymore than one would be too much for me and lore breaking. I say stick to the lore. And as for playable races? No Dwemer, ever, the Dwemer need to be revealed in the SP TES games before we ever see them in this mmo, I could see maomer, sea elves, being a playable race, and I can possibly seeing dremora being a playable race(Wouldn't that be awesome?! We definitely have friendly dremora we've already worked and quested with, I can think of 2 at the moment) Maybe even a sect of Snow Elves, There's definitely quite a few races they could add, but never should dragons become the norm at this time, that was the whole storyline of Skyrim, Dragons were thought to be myth, hadn't been seen in thousands of years, but for them to show up in this game, a mere 800 years before Skyrim, no. Once ZOS starts forsaking the lore, that's when they stop getting my money."It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey1
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AVCN✭✭No. (Stick to lore)Want an extra challenge, something to look forward?
Sloads, I say. Sloads becoming Molag Bal's buddies.
Said it before, will say it again - there are whole lands of opportunity within the lore.
Lets try not to build an Abrahamsverse out of TES, OK? No lens flares and big KABOOOMS... Well, those are my two cents...3 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭No. (Stick to lore)
Vaults of Madness, go do that, there you go. Wish granted.I will settle for a Daedra that looks like a dragon and has that "Dragon raid" feel.
"It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey1 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭No. (Stick to lore)
Erm, more like 200? 400 years from now? Remember this is only 800 years before skyrim.isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »As for the time period, in a few hundred years of fighting, Tamriel will pick up the nickname Arena; that's the game you have to worry about ESO bumping into - but Arena is .. how many hundreds of years in the future? A couple thousand?
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"It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey1 -
ShadowWolf613✭✭✭No. (Stick to lore)isn't this game a 1000 years before skyrim so wouldn't that be 800 years before oblivion and 600 years before morrowind? Can anyone confirm cause i thought I remember them saying before launch the events take place a 1000 years before skyrim. And aren't the SP TES games 200 years a part each?
Also I think they should stick to lore. One of the reasons I play this game is because i LOVE TES lore. This is actually one of the first MMOS I actually pve because I love the lore. I use to only play MMOs for the pvp and that's it.1 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭No. (Stick to lore)Kathleen.Flynn02b14_ESO wrote: »I'm not obsessed with 100% immersion or anything, but adding certain things would irritate me. For instance, having the Dwemer randomly show up again is kind of a huge break in lore. I say no.
Duly noted. The mystery is still going to drive me nuts though.
The mystery was more or less solved with Skyrim, if you know where to look and piece together all the tidbits we've picked up, it's obvious what happened to the Dwemer."It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey1
